I'm hosting a game!

[Visor]

Three is too much without power roles.

Two is a perfect amount. I point you to El Bartos last games where there were two mafia with similar player numbers.

[Csargo]

Hmm if that's the case then unvote:, Vote:Visorslash I don't see how you aren't a liability for the town. Especially considering how you revealed your role.

[Visor]

I mean, I guess I should have expected this. The Org is the least friendly board for claims that aren't town.

I am never a wolf and I literally cannot be a PFK with this many players.

In what way does voting me accomplish anything but a wasted day? You are no closer to any alignments of importance, you will basically begin d2 as d1 because you have no town/mafia lynch d1 to discuss.

[landlubber]

Well, lynching you is the only way we can contain you if you are a threat to the town, i. e. if you're lying. Sure, you could be scanned by a cop or roleblocked or tracked or whatever, but so what? If you are who you say you are, you still aren't inherently pro-town, and, like I said before, playing as a helpful townie is a guaranteed path to a nightkill. You don't seem in a position to help the town much.

You've sparked quite the discussion, so this day certainly wasn't wasted. In fact, this is probably one of the most productive first days I've seen. I'll humor you, though. Who's the better option? How are you reading everyone who's going after you?

[Double A]

Every post by or addressing Double A, who, incidentally, is not a player but a substitute.

Can I actually post somewhat frequently if I don't contribute anything to the game like normal?

[Csargo]

I mean, I guess I should have expected this. The Org is the least friendly board for claims that aren't town.

I am never a wolf and I literally cannot be a PFK with this many players.

In what way does voting me accomplish anything but a wasted day? You are no closer to any alignments of importance, you will basically begin d2 as d1 because you have no town/mafia lynch d1 to discuss.

I'll explain my vote better now that I have the time to do so.

I assume you are the role you say you are. I believe everything you posted in your initial reveal. The problem to me is revealing, almost instantaneously, your role with no prompt or reason. Also, the fact that you have no alignment to either side. You've left yourself open to being easily manipulated by the baddies. I think your reveal was an advertisement to the mafia to contact you, because that gives you the best chance to fulfill your win condition. You have a fighting chance to reason with townies not to lynch you. The same can't be said for being killed in the night randomly. It's a risky play, but it would be well worth if it worked.

That's my reasoning and whether or not it's correct I don't honestly know. Either way my vote stands as is.

[El Barto]

Player list, just in case Double A has confused you:
1. GeneralHankerchief
2. Visorslash
3. BSmith
4. Ishmael
5. seireikhaan
6. vote:Winston Hughes
7. Kagemusha
8. Csargo
9. vote:johnhughthom
10. Montmorency
11. landlubber

Can I actually post somewhat frequently if I don't contribute anything to the game like normal?

No, and if you keep up with your silly antics I'll remove you from the substitutes list.

[Double A]

Psh, fine. I guess I'm blowing this popsicle stand. Hell, I don't even like popsicles. They're usually mediocre and wood adds absolutely nothing but a gross feeling.

[Visor]

Well, lynching you is the only way we can contain you if you are a threat to the town, i. e. if you're lying. Sure, you could be scanned by a cop or roleblocked or tracked or whatever, but so what? If you are who you say you are, you still aren't inherently pro-town, and, like I said before, playing as a helpful townie is a guaranteed path to a nightkill. You don't seem in a position to help the town much.

You've sparked quite the discussion, so this day certainly wasn't wasted. In fact, this is probably one of the most productive first days I've seen. I'll humor you, though. Who's the better option? How are you reading everyone who's going after you?

Well no, thats not true and pretty dishonest. Lets say there are no other power roles in this game and my role was put in this game because there was an even number of players (my hypothesis). None of the reasons for voting so far stand on any reasoning that could be taken as scumhunting or what have you. I've claimed a role which whilst maybe not verifiable is a role that is not only NEVER claimed by mafia (mafia would claim something that would let them live and also never claim with their first post of the day). You can cling to the worst case scenario where I am lying about claiming a survivor role on one the most hostile to third party claims sites that play mafia an HOUR after the day began.

Now lets look at that in detail because I think that is pretty important. If you believe I am a survivor this is a GOOD thing if you are town. Because you know that the playerbase is narrowed and that the wolves can be found easier. (example, at f5 you would have a 2/3 chance of randomly voting a wolf rather than a 1/2). So my continued survival is useful for that point.

The other argument is that I claimed an hour into the game. Now, I don't live in the timezone that most do besides Ishmael here so unless you are suggesting I am mafia with the people who posted before I did which is you or Winston. Now, both you and winston are against me so that doesn't seem likely.

To quash this silly belief especially from winston: Unless you think I claim as a neutral survivor without talking to my teammate/s an hour into the game, the evidence is OVERWHELMINGLY likely that I am telling the truth about being a survivor.

I am in an excellent position to help town. My unique position means my opinion can be trusted moreso than most with respect to reads. I have every reason to be open and transparent and solving and I believe I have done.

I'll explain my vote better now that I have the time to do so.

I assume you are the role you say you are. I believe everything you posted in your initial reveal. The problem to me is revealing, almost instantaneously, your role with no prompt or reason. Also, the fact that you have no alignment to either side. You've left yourself open to being easily manipulated by the baddies. I think your reveal was an advertisement to the mafia to contact you, because that gives you the best chance to fulfill your win condition. You have a fighting chance to reason with townies not to lynch you. The same can't be said for being killed in the night randomly. It's a risky play, but it would be well worth if it worked.

That's my reasoning and whether or not it's correct I don't honestly know. Either way my vote stands as is.

So you believe I am NOT a mafia. Survivor typically win with anyone as long as they are alive at the end - I included that for completeness sake. And no, I don't think I can be easily manipulated by the baddies, not sure what that argument is about. And why on earth would the mafia contact me? If they think I'm telling the truth the best thing to do is leave me alone and for the game sake more than anything. Mafia will never contact me here saying hey I'm mafia. That is a terrible play.

The best chance for me to win was to reveal immediately because with this lineup I get nightkilled early. It is as simple as that.

The rationale behind both your votes doesn't make too much sense.

[Visor]

Been a while since I wrote that much in a post.

Let's go through the scenarios:

One: I am mafia. Rare but for completeness sake. I decided to claim an hour into the game presumably without talking to my partner unless they are Winston/Landlubber. I also decided to claim a role that will often get lynched due to the Org hating all third parties. I also gain my partner ~zero equity when I flip mafia because the suspicion on me comes from a position of perfect information - so winston or landlubber should be defending me not suspecting me because otherwise the flip reeks of PIS. I don't help my partner get through the game at all.

Two: I am town. Less rare but still. I decided to claim a role that typically gets lynched very early on in the game, presumably to get some discussion going day one. This is a reasonable move but would have been rescinded by now if I was town.

Third: I am exactly who I say I am. I claimed an hour into the game as soon as I read my role PM. I have been transparent and open to discussion from all players and have acknowledged all concerns.

We can see that option three is obviously the most likely.

Now we can look at what this means.

For the town - a narrowing of suspects, plus some information with how people have reacted to my claim.

For mafia - narrowing down of power roles if any. Has one less mislynch available technically.

So you can see my survival is actually beneficial to the town. And I already intend on attempting to solve this game - like I said earlier, that is the fun part for me.

[Visor]

Even if all that EVIDENCE doesn't convince you, I am asking you to ignore my claim then and focus on my tone/words/etc.

Do I sound like I am coming from a position of perfect information? Do I sound guilty?

I am doing my utmost firstly to get these terrible votes off me - next will come the examination of the players as they stand so far. But that will happen tonight, I'm taking a break for now.

[Winston Hughes]

For the sake of being fully transparent GH did PM after out initial convo saying he had no intention of keeping his vote on me, so I tend to believe him there hence the lean.

In that case:

unvote; vote: GH

His weak accusation wasn't setting a trap for scum; it was opening an approach to get the neutral guy onside.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I mean, I can't exactly announce that I'm setting a trap as I'm doing it, as that would defeat the entire purpose of said trap. Otherwise I'd've made it more clear.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Actually, I have a better idea.

Unvote: BSmith
Vote: Kage

Everyone else has chimed in so far. This isn't going to be a Mafia X redux, at least not when I have any say in things.

[Kagemusha]

Very strange GH are you bit rusty? ;) I have indeed chimed in and voted Monty because of his subtle ways, which he did not want to comment in any way. I have no such problems old friend. I am watching at this point and you can be sure that i will contribute more as i have something to base a case.

[Csargo]

So you believe I am NOT a mafia. Survivor typically win with anyone as long as they are alive at the end - I included that for completeness sake. And no, I don't think I can be easily manipulated by the baddies, not sure what that argument is about. And why on earth would the mafia contact me? If they think I'm telling the truth the best thing to do is leave me alone and for the game sake more than anything. Mafia will never contact me here saying hey I'm mafia. That is a terrible play.

The best chance for me to win was to reveal immediately because with this lineup I get nightkilled early. It is as simple as that.

The rationale behind both your votes doesn't make too much sense.

That's what I said. One person contacts you and says vote this way or you'll die tonight. It's as simple as that really. You don't do it and you get killed, or you reveal who sent it and you get killed. You'd obviously choose survival over revealing considering your role. Why wouldn't they? The risk is negligible considering your role. It'd just give them an extra vote in the game. How is it a terrible play?

Why would you think that?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Very strange GH are you bit rusty? ;) I have indeed chimed in and voted Monty because of his subtle ways, which he did not want to comment in any way. I have no such problems old friend. I am watching at this point and you can be sure that i will contribute more as i have something to base a case.

Wait, seriously? I guess I must be, I completely missed this.

Unvote: Kage
Vote: BSmith

[johnhughthom]

That's what I said. One person contacts you and says vote this way or you'll die tonight. It's as simple as that really. You don't do it and you get killed, or you reveal who sent it and you get killed. You'd obviously choose survival over revealing considering your role. Why wouldn't they? The risk is negligible considering your role. It'd just give them an extra vote in the game. How is it a terrible play?

Why would you think that?

If I was a 3rd party role such as Visor is claiming, and scum contacted me in the manner you described, I would tell the town. I'm not in a team, stuff the win, threaten me, I'll take you with me. I think a lot of other players would do the same. Unless you're Askthepizzaguy, most players sympathise more with the town than scum in such a position.

Probably.

[landlubber]

First of all, there isn't an even number of players in the game, there are eleven. Second, you keep saying that the town can trust you and that you'll be helpful, but, as I've said before, the mafia would not want such a person alive. And the "mafia would never do this" defense really isn't working for me, because I can't imagine anyone playing like this under any circumstances. Your insistence on clearing yourself to the town while avoiding nightkills by the mafia just isn't true. Either you lay low and the mafia see no reason to spend a night killing you, or you play well enough as a pseudo-townie that you put a target on your back for the mafia.

My vote stands, as Visor hasn't convinced me and, while some others seem a little strange to me (GH and Monty stand out), no one even begins to reach Visor's level.

[Csargo]

If I was a 3rd party role such as Visor is claiming, and scum contacted me in the manner you described, I would tell the town. I'm not in a team, stuff the win, threaten me, I'll take you with me. I think a lot of other players would do the same. Unless you're Askthepizzaguy, most players sympathise more with the town than scum in such a position.

Probably.

Maybe you are right and I'm not saying Visor wouldn't do the same. His role makes him dangerous if such a situation arises later on down the line. It could shift the balance of a potential game winning/losing vote as numbers dwindle. I don't really want to take that chance, so I'd rather deal with it now and avoid the possibility later on. It makes Visor potentially dangerous, and that's a good enough reason for me to lynch him now.

No one else seems to be responding to my posts, but I won't change my vote.

[johnhughthom]

the mafia would not want such a person alive.

Indeed, what self respecting scumbag would keep such a thread dominating distraction going?

[Winston Hughes]

unvote; vote: Visor

Has to be.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I really think that lynching Visor is a bad idea.

Consider the following assumptions/statements/whatevers:

1) Visor is, I believe, one of the most active remaining mafia players here across multiple fora, and is thus very much in tune with the metagame.

2) He has to be aware that the .Org is notorious for being twitchy with claimed third-party roles, thus, it wouldn't benefit him too much to claim something like that without reason.

3) Considering Point 1 above, he could be considered a likely kill target and this may - intentionally or not - be a way to remove that by deliberately attracting more suspicion towards himself (this is what I've been doing after all)

4) If he has the option to align with scum, as some people have said, and this is his way of putting himself out there, wouldn't that be unbalanced for a game of this size?

Feel free to pick apart.

[Visor]

It's bit startling that I'm going to lose this game immediately, I think I've done pretty much everything I can to convince you of my alignment. Gone above and beyond the call of duty here.

[Visor]

" Either you lay low and the mafia see no reason to spend a night killing you"

I refuse to lay low.

I would be looking at those who only considered me, not peoples reactions to me tomorrow for a lynch. Those people could easily be trying to lessen their interactions.

I mean I'm the easiest mislynch of all time here and yet nobody seems to be considering what I am saying.

I would any of those who actually recognise voting me is not voting a mafia to vote elsewhere. Voting me gets you no closer to finding the mafia, and in fact is in direct opposite to your win condition.

You are throwing away a lynch because of the some of the stupidest reasoning. I have posted plenty of evidence why I am who I am, none of it has been refuted.

I just get ignored and voted because lol fuck third parties amirite

The Org meta in this way is so unhealthy. You guys need to actually think about the scenario. Where are the mafia in this game? No townie has a clue because the discussion is about me when it should not be. I made my claim which is absolutely moronic for a mafioso as you can see and it narrows the pool down for scum.

DO SOME WORK instead of taking the easy option. When/if you lose this game come back and quote this post, because here is where you lost a lynch you could've used.

[Visor]

I really think that lynching Visor is a bad idea.

Consider the following assumptions/statements/whatevers:

1) Visor is, I believe, one of the most active remaining mafia players here across multiple fora, and is thus very much in tune with the metagame.

2) He has to be aware that the .Org is notorious for being twitchy with claimed third-party roles, thus, it wouldn't benefit him too much to claim something like that without reason.

3) Considering Point 1 above, he could be considered a likely kill target and this may - intentionally or not - be a way to remove that by deliberately attracting more suspicion towards himself (this is what I've been doing after all)

4) If he has the option to align with scum, as some people have said, and this is his way of putting himself out there, wouldn't that be unbalanced for a game of this size?

Feel free to pick apart.

Well I'm not putting myself out there for scum - I always play to the win condition specified in my role PM. Unlike some people *cough SW town cough*.

Mostly everything said here is correct. Most of plays only make sense from the survivor pov. And I assume most of finally bloody beleive it by now which means you should be focusing on finding the mafia rather than this discussion which went on for far too long because I had to defend myself against stellar accusations like Montys.

[Visor]

That's what I said. One person contacts you and says vote this way or you'll die tonight. It's as simple as that really. You don't do it and you get killed, or you reveal who sent it and you get killed. You'd obviously choose survival over revealing considering your role. Why wouldn't they? The risk is negligible considering your role. It'd just give them an extra vote in the game. How is it a terrible play?

Why would you think that?

Why would they kill me? Its moronic from the mafia perspective to kill someone they can win with and I'm never going to be blackmailed or threatened in doing anything I don't want to.

I'd reveal them instantly.

[Visor]

First of all, there isn't an even number of players in the game, there are eleven. Second, you keep saying that the town can trust you and that you'll be helpful, but, as I've said before, the mafia would not want such a person alive. And the "mafia would never do this" defense really isn't working for me, because I can't imagine anyone playing like this under any circumstances. Your insistence on clearing yourself to the town while avoiding nightkills by the mafia just isn't true. Either you lay low and the mafia see no reason to spend a night killing you, or you play well enough as a pseudo-townie that you put a target on your back for the mafia.

My vote stands, as Visor hasn't convinced me and, while some others seem a little strange to me (GH and Monty stand out), no one even begins to reach Visor's level.

The mafia don't want me alive so you're voting me

good look there

if play well enough there might be a target on my back, I can accept that

but thats the way the cookie crumbles

[Visor]

Days over in what 3 hours or so?

I doubt I can convince enough of you remaining and I don't even know what the tally is

Vote: landlubber

I'd also like to point out that NONE of my voters even addressed the whole fuckign walls of text I put up. Its brilliant to be ignored when your game is on the line, but there ain't much I can do about plays like that

If I don't make it back to change my vote, I'd like you all to know once more how terrible your votes are and how poor your reasoning is, etc.

[GeneralHankerchief]

FWIW Visor's acting a lot like The Frenchman right now, a role in Pirate Ship II where he felt unjustly persecuted after aligning with town and agreeing to work with that game's Captain. I'd give him a pass.