IMMIGRATION thread

[Fragony]

This is getting unmanagable. Not only is the meditarian sea the biggest graveyard in the world by now, thousands must have drowned by now, and the ones who make it are becomming a serious problem for France and England. Truckdrivers don't want to go to Callais anymore, the trains often get hours of delay because the tunnel gets swarmed. Any ideas. The most humanitarian solution would be to drag the ships back just close enough to the african coast, and load up on cheap but safe boats. Something has to be done.


Disclaimer: this is a merging of several threads. Title has nothing to do with any views in the OP.

[Brenus]

Oh, don't forget the ones coming by foot...
Solutions? Well, stop to bomb countries you don't like under various pretexts would be a good start. Note there are more "Muslims" willing to leave the Muslim very State of Levant than to go to live there. Stop created "independent" unsustainable states would be another solution (i.e Republic of Kosovo). Another option would be to stop free-market ideology which create massive employment and destroy communities.
EU imposes to neighbours trade agreements just doing this. So the unemployed EU created decide logically they don't want to starve, refusing to die in silence and dignity, the cowards. They "choose" to risk their life, to face potential death to go in hostile countries to seek potential better life. How can you stop that? STOP FREAKING HEADLESS TRADE POLICIES, and start to think human...

I know, too much to ask...

[Fragony]

A radical thought of my own, and not one that is going to please everybody, but maybe MORE capitalism would be the best. That wold absolutily take the power from their governments of course. But there would be enough to eat, enough to trade, and of course enough to exploit China also does it. Just read that another one washed up here, that's a little tragedy, big tragedy was yesterday, hundreds drowned. I wish I could say that I give a crap but I dont't and I don't like that.

[Viking]

The fleeing people are just a symptom. We could rescue people in the Mediterranean and grant them citizenship till there was no room left, and people would still try to cross it as long as the causes are still active.

Which is to say that the war in Syria needs to be stopped in a way that it does not flare up again 20 years later (hint to the fans of arab dictators), the Eritrean leadership (or at least its policies) need to be changed and Somalia needs to be fixed. Do these things, and much of the migrant masses would already have disappeared.

[wooly_mammoth]

Which is to say that the war in Syria needs to be stopped in a way that it does not flare up again 20 years later (hint to the fans of arab dictators)

Not sure I understood what you meant there. To my knowledge, most if not all the wars going from Lybia to Syria and beyond are solely due to american interference (and NATO as a follow-up of that). I have no idea why instead of seeing to fix the problems in their own country (and your favorite deity be praised, they have a motherload of those) they find it more useful to meddle into the afairs of others. Give me an example of one place where they interfered and it did not end up in a bigger disaster than it previously was. I'm having a hard time thinking of one.

[Viking]

To my knowledge, most if not all the wars going from Lybia to Syria and beyond are solely due to american interference

The wars in Libya and Syria were caused by unpopular dictator families who had placed themselves in power many decades ago. But not that many people are freeing from Libya, they are fleeing through it, like Eritreans. But that didn't have to be a big problem for us; the European governments could just have enforced strict policies and returned the vast majority of the migrants to where they came from - the problem is that they don't.

Blaming problems in the third world on outside forces is typically a convenient scapegoat. The most troubled of these countries normally have corrupt governance and/or major warring ethnic groups. Fix that, and the exodus would subside.

Give me an example of one place where they interfered and it did not end up in a bigger disaster than it previously was. I'm having a hard time thinking of one.

South Korea, Japan, Western Europe.

[Husar]

Give me an example of one place where they interfered and it did not end up in a bigger disaster than it previously was. I'm having a hard time thinking of one.

Vietnam.

[Fragony]

The fleeing people are just a symptom. We could rescue people in the Mediterranean and grant them citizenship till there was no room left, and people would still try to cross it as long as the causes are still active.

There already isn't any room left in the Netherlands at least, the EU demands that they het housing in six months, immigrants take the place of people who have been waiting for 6 years or more. And now the EU wants us to take in even more, there are no houses, there is no room. England gets te worst deal though, or rather the Brittish. They all want to go to England because the wellfare is most generous there

[Brenus]

"They all want to go to England because the wellfare is most generous there" Not really, but it is irrelevant as it is what the English and the immigrants think.

[Kadagar_AV]

Number of reported rapes, a total in 1975: 768 of which 118 "assault rapes"
Number of reported rapes, totaling 1995: 1707 of which 289 "assault rapes"
Number of reported rapes, totaling 2014: 6697 of which 854 "assault rapes"

The number of reported assault cases, including rough in 1975: 21,518
The number of reported assault cases, including rough in 1995: 54,333
The number of reported assault cases, including rough in 2014: 83,324

The number of reported murder / manslaughter trial, a total of 1975: 170
The number of reported murder / manslaughter trial, a total of 1995: 643
The number of reported murder / manslaughter trial, a total of 2014: 792

The number of reported violent crime, total year 1975: 27016
The number of reported violent crime, total year 1995: 66131
The number of violent crimes reported, a total of 2014: 108,071



Number of ghettos 1975 - 0
Number of ghettos 2015 - 55



Ranking in the PISA test before? Top 3 world.
Ranking now - Somewhere tied with Ecuador last I checked.


Number of Africans and Arabs chaosing 1975 - next to none.
Number of Africans and Arabs chaosing 2015 - uncountable.




Sure, you have to adjust for population growth, from around 8mil to 9,5mil between... So 15-20%.

As we have negative birth numbers (or had, Africans and Arabs breeds like crazy and in a few generations will outnumber native Swedes, 5 children is still standard in Africa last I checked), you can basically point to the rise in crime and drop everywhere else solely towards having accepted people from trash cultures.

[Leet Eriksson]

Number of reported rapes, a total in 1975: 768 of which 118 "assault rapes"
Number of reported rapes, totaling 1995: 1707 of which 289 "assault rapes"
Number of reported rapes, totaling 2014: 6697 of which 854 "assault rapes"

The number of reported assault cases, including rough in 1975: 21,518
The number of reported assault cases, including rough in 1995: 54,333
The number of reported assault cases, including rough in 2014: 83,324

The number of reported murder / manslaughter trial, a total of 1975: 170
The number of reported murder / manslaughter trial, a total of 1995: 643
The number of reported murder / manslaughter trial, a total of 2014: 792

The number of reported violent crime, total year 1975: 27016
The number of reported violent crime, total year 1995: 66131
The number of violent crimes reported, a total of 2014: 108,071



Number of ghettos 1975 - 0
Number of ghettos 2015 - 55



Ranking in the PISA test before? Top 3 world.
Ranking now - Somewhere tied with Ecuador last I checked.


Number of Africans and Arabs chaosing 1975 - next to none.
Number of Africans and Arabs chaosing 2015 - uncountable.




Sure, you have to adjust for population growth, from around 8mil to 9,5mil between... So 15-20%.

As we have negative birth numbers (or had, Africans and Arabs breeds like crazy and in a few generations will outnumber native Swedes, 5 children is still standard in Africa last I checked), you can basically point to the rise in crime and drop everywhere else solely towards having accepted people from trash cultures.

You heard it here first folks, tiny minorities have taken over Sweden. Abandon all hope.

[Kadagar_AV]

You heard it here first folks, tiny minorities have taken over Sweden. Abandon all hope.

No, but the 15-20% of the population that make up immigrants from trashy cultures along with their kids (and of course the illegal immigrants not registered), have taken over quite some areas...

They have also absolutely sky-rocketed the criminal statistics in other areas...

[Husar]

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

/thread

[Leet Eriksson]

Funnier still, the Swedish reports do not list religion of the perpetrators, or their ethnic background, just the fact that they were either born in Sweden or not, something like the majority of the rapes in Sweden are committed by people born in Sweden, this is a natural fact in any country and not just Sweden.

[Kadagar_AV]

Funnier still, the Swedish reports do not list religion of the perpetrators, or their ethnic background, just the fact that they were either born in Sweden or not, something like the majority of the rapes in Sweden are committed by people born in Sweden, this is a natural fact in any country and not just Sweden.

They stopped doing that to combat the spreading racism.

But you are still talking out of your behind.

It was several years ago that the immigrants started to commit the majority of rapes. So you are not even right on your basic assumptions.

So, 15-20% of the men commit more than 50% of the rapes....

Then, we must remember that some immigrant groups actually are under-represented, Is it even strange?
[snipped]

[Leet Eriksson]

snip

More unverified garbage doesn't really help your case K-man. You probably want to back it up with actual mainstream sources like Husar is doing, and not with racist garbage websites that do the thinking for you.

[Husar]

snip

See? I always said you're a racist...

Every time you deride a "culture" it's just another thinly veiled racist statement.

[Kadagar_AV]

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

/thread

1. That BBC article is wrong. It makes it look like 25 rapes would be reported if your husband raped you 25 times before the woman went to the police. That's not the case, the reporter must have misunderstood something.

Yes, the court would hear the testimony of the 25 times and it might impact on his sentence, but it's still ONE man being reported for having raped. Get the difference?


2. How can you close the thread without even looking at assault cases and the others?

[Leet Eriksson]

1. That BBC article is wrong.

I'll wait until they retract the article before ruling it out. If they are wrong, i'm sure a heroic individual such as yourself will be able to correct them.

[Husar]

1. That BBC article is wrong.

No you're wrong. Apparently you do not understand what the article is about.
Prove that your statistic is based on court sentences and not police reports.
Also prove the connection between your statistic and immigration.
Then show that there are no other possible factors that could be rsponsible for the statistical increase over time.

And by prove I mean with sources, the BBC article has experts as sources, you have nothing but copy-pasted numbers that you may have found under some someone's pillow for all I know.

2. How can you close the thread without even looking at assault cases and the others?

How could you post that reply after I closed the thread?

[Kadagar_AV]

Newspeak bullshit propogated by the same Swedish government that brings in the bottom of the barrel.

Immigration is fine if you have plans to turn the immigrants into countrymen.

This.

I never once had a problem with a black guy who in clear Swedish talked with me about the last hockey game while petting his dog - or similar...

But if you have 8 million Swedes, and you pump in 1,5 million foreigners from nations/cultures often completely un-synched... Without a plan what so ever of how to make it work...

Yeah, we see the results.

And we are just ACCELERATING the immigration... 127.000 people people got permanent residency and citizenship 2014... By this rate it will be another half million people the next 3-4 years.

Oh, and we still have no jobs or apartments for them... It's even so bad that Swedish young adults today are pushed out of the work/apartment market, because immigrants have so many "affirmative action" programs working for them.

[Papewaio]

Governments without a plan for infrastructure and development is never a good scenario.

Integration is not easy but if done well is a net positive otherwise it's all pain and no gain.

[Kadagar_AV]

So, Austria decided to open up their borders, and let the Africans through to Germany...

What the HELL is happening in Europe:

The Schengen deal: We have open borders within the EU, this mean all countries are responsible for holding the OUTER border, while having no internal ones.

The Dublin deal assured that refugees MUST seek shelter in the country they arrive to.


What are we seeing now?

EU partners have absolutely NO border control, they just let people through.

"Oh, you want to get to Sweden for the free dental care? By all means, off you go then".


WHAT THE **** IS HAPPENING WITH the EU!!??

I mean, membership countries are openly violating EU-regulations like they were nothing, all to pump in more black males into the Western Society.

I call bollocks.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Germany said it's OK, so as not to appear Facist, meanwhile David Cameron agrees with you - the UK will take 20,000 Syrians over five years FROM THE CAMPS.

[Kadagar_AV]

Germany said it's OK, so as not to appear Facist, meanwhile David Cameron agrees with you - the UK will take 20,000 Syrians over five years FROM THE CAMPS.

It's not damn fascist to stick to shared agreed upon rules made between nations to work together in a union...

AGAIN, WTF is happening with the EU!!??

How come we all of a sudden decided to disregard treaties just "like that"??!!



PS: God bless the queen then!!

[a completely inoffensive name]

In five years, if the system doesn't get overrun by the sheer number of people flocking to Europe... I'm afraid the right wing will start seeing massive waves of support.

[Kadagar_AV]

In five years, if the system doesn't get overrun by the sheer number of people flocking to Europe... I'm afraid the right wing will start seeing massive waves of support.

In five years?

Are you on drugs?

As an example:

In Sweden, the National Democrats have gone from like:

1,44% of the votes 2002...

around 25% in the last poll.

Aiming to be the largest political party in Sweden by the next election..

The joke is that they are not racist or even national what so ever. They just do not support a population exchange with Africa, so to say.

[Kadagar_AV]

PS: If anyone wonder about my use of the term "black males", around 80% of the people seeking refugee status are male. Because women, you know, in their cultures are not worth to save.

And yes, **** them. That goes against like EVERY lesson my father taught me growing up.

[Montmorency]

PVC, Germany did it more as a sop to the overwhelmed countries of Southern Europe. It's hard for Merkel to get money directly to, say, the Italian government, while it is comparatively easy to invite refugees coming through Italy and then pay for them domestically.

How come we all of a sudden decided to disregard treaties just "like that"??!!

What you all in Europe are seeing is actually the process of the breakdown of the Schengen agreement. It's really been gaining steam over the past two years. Governments have already been softly violating Schengen anyway by having police forces conduct totally-not-border-checks at bus and train stations. This fall there will be a number of emergency EU sessions on the issue, as the Dublin rule is clearly untenable.

I think the end of "free movement of people" is coming soon. However, the core of Schengen is in fact the "free movement of goods". Germany especially will not budge on that issue for a while, as the end of unchecked commercial traffic between sovereign states in Europe is literally the end of the European Union.

[Fragony]

In five years, if the system doesn't get overrun by the sheer number of people flocking to Europe... I'm afraid the right wing will start seeing massive waves of support.

Allready have, but don't mind me saying that the rightwing is much more reasonable. Even boring.