IMMIGRATION thread

[Papewaio]

So we should start importing more Poles?

Well their lady dancers are very popular...

[Papewaio]

Yeah, but Steve jobs didn't really invent most of the things he's credited with, other people did and he took the credit. The point is that Steve Jobs may actually have been a net-detriment by sitting on Steve Wozniak, the man who really WAS the father of the Home Computer.

Reading comprehension is still screwed PFH...
"the next boom idea will make some young people look like genius entrepreneurs"

Woz is the ideas man that makes some entrepreneurs look like a genius... Looks like. Again not arguing that a Chinese Emperor is the key inventor of such and such or a CEO is the driving force. It's the unsung shoulders of those below.

However reading Woz's accounts it does seem he was too introverted to spread his ideas. For every lion you need a ringmaster.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So we should start importing more Poles?

Always, men and women.

[HopAlongBunny]

The USA largely created the present conditions, thus they should accept the bulk of the refugees

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/3...deal_with_isis

[Sarmatian]

Advising people against alcohol and gambling???

What a hellish crime.

[Greyblades]

It's like the muslim world discovered 4chan pranks.

[Kralizec]

Some losers walk around in crossing guard jackets, and don't get convicted for it because they've not violated any laws? Just advertised their opinions in an annoying manner? This is shocking.

Not sure what you're getting at.

[Husar]

At least they didn't kill any children.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=19653300

:-)

[Fragony]

You can dismiss this as jusf being annoying, and easily kill any argument i got against it, but you can't change what I really think

[Idaho]

You can dismiss this as jusf being annoying, and easily kill any argument i got against it, but you can't change what I really think

No one can change what you think Frag, as you are totally bats**t crazy

[Rhyfelwyr]

Seems more like a stupid media stunt than evidence of Islamists patrolling the streets with any real authority.

[Fragony]

Not so crazy imo

[Beskar]

Strike for Trump, 2016.

[Idaho]

We are surrounded by advertising, street preaching, government information announcements. Adding another, fairly benign, and incredibly brave, to be fair, extra voice on the streets doesn't make any difference to me.

Although I can imagine it sends all you orgahs fighting the great war of civilisations into orgasms of indignation

[Shaka_Khan]

We don't have any Sharia police in the United States. The US sidewalks aren't the kind of place where one would want to stay too long while annoying too many people.

[Fragony]

We don't have any Sharia police in the United States. The US sidewalks aren't the kind of place where one would want to stay too long while annoying too many people.

Not here either, but salafist influence is growing though (more liberal islam as well)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Strikes me the Germans should have been able to prosecute these guys for intimidation - if they can't their legal system is broken.

Or the prosecutors are not prosecuting them under the correct law.

[Montmorency]

Intimidation? You must be joking.

Show me an English or British statute that you think allows for or could conceivably allow for the prosecution of such actions as "intimidation". I do not think there is any such.

[Sarmatian]

Bah, when I was traveling around US for a few months, more than once activist groups stopped me and tried to force me to listen to their agenda. Sometimes it was about veterans, sometimes about how only their own particular brand of Christianity will save my soul and so on.

If that is a crime, we'd have to jail all traveling salesmen, Jehovas Witnesses, PETA activists.

Based on the article, there was no violence or threat of violence, so no harm done.

[Fragony]

Did they call themselves police? Makes a difference

[Sarmatian]

I don't know. The article claimed they wore orange jackets with the words "Sharia Police" on them, and linked to a youtube video of their "patrol", but on the video there are three guys and no one wears an orange jacket, and police isn't written on them.

[Fragony]

I don't know. The article claimed they wore orange jackets with the words "Sharia Police" on them, and linked to a youtube video of their "patrol", but on the video there are three guys and no one wears an orange jacket, and police isn't written on them.

Clearly is in the link in the post Strike posted, from the bbc of all. There is only one law here and that is our law, their religious law belongs somewhere else. Why are they even here. Just go away.

what's next, painting my house in their color of choice, fuck them, go rape your sheep and herd your women, or was it the other way around I tend to be confused about what's what

[Kralizec]

Strikes me the Germans should have been able to prosecute these guys for intimidation - if they can't their legal system is broken.

Or the prosecutors are not prosecuting them under the correct law.

If they intimidated or threatened people in their orange jackets, I'd assume that the prosecutors would have used that and it would have been a clear-cut case.

I'll try to find a more detailed article because I'm interested in what the prosecutors case actually was. Apparently it was about unlawful use of uniforms, trying to pass themselves of as having legal authority or somesuch.
On the surface though they seem to be nothing more than annoying activists, except that their message is a vile one.

[Greyblades]

Recently I have been on a bit of a reactionary streak, and I say reactionary not conservative because I have been "acting in reaction to". I have reacted to an increasingly convincing argument that politicians, liberals and otherwise, are ignoring, lying and in outright denial about a growing number of elephants in an increasingly cramped room. It was a multitude of things really but none of it had been absolute.

Throughout it had all been in response multiple things that can be handwaved away as not a big deal. Like the actions of reverse racist or reverse sexist idiots on twitter, tumblr and reddit, the machinations of deranged wannabe civil rights protestor students or, most concerning of all, political pandering to previously mentioned retards. All of them can be dismissed as unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

Recently Idaho posted this:

Ambulances, police. Can't is a shade too grey, but they avoid area's that are enriched with people with culture when they can. Ambulances refuse to go there unles they get police protection. You know that's true, don't pretend you don't know it. It isn't just England where there are self-acaimed sharia-police monitoring the street and people are just hostile, problem is everywhere where islam is.

Fact free post. Where are these places and who can't go. I want some basic factual support for this.

I seconded this and when noone responded I went looking for myself. I found this:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/51...-zones-britain

I had heard the claims by Bobby Jindal and Donald Trump but nether of them had given much in the way of proof that hadnt been sourced from something like a daily mail article, which I had stupidly considered as being either always wrong or at least unusable as a source. Besides, British politicians on both sides of the aisle had roundly denounced such notions and the only thing they'd publically share views on are the NHS, if they both say they're wrong it cant be that bad.

In January 2014, the chief inspector of the police forces in England and Wales, Sir Tom Winsor, told the London Times that "some parts of Britain have their own form of justice" and that crimes as serious as honor killings, domestic violence, sexual abuse of children and female genital mutilations often go unreported. He added:

"There are some communities born under other skies who will not involve the police at all. I am reluctant to name the communities in question, but there are communities from other cultures who would prefer to police themselves. There are cities in the Midlands where the police never go because they are never called. They never hear of any trouble because the community deals with that on its own. It's not that the police are afraid to go into these areas or don't want to go into those areas. But if the police don't get calls for help then, of course, they won't know what's going on."

Ah.
Well it's just one guy, he could be wrong or delusional-

In September 2005, the high-profile black chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, Trevor Phillips, said in a speech that multiculturalism was dividing rather than uniting British society. He also warned of the emergence of "fully fledged ghettos" based on race and religion. Speaking after Hurricane Katrina exposed the black underclass in the American city of New Orleans, Phillips said:

"The fact is that we are a society which, almost without noticing it, is becoming more divided by race and religion. We are becoming more unequal by ethnicity… There are some simple truths which should bind us together."

Phillips added that some districts are becoming "literal black holes into which nobody goes without fear and trepidation and from which nobody ever escapes undamaged." He warned that this situation risks culminating in a "New Orleans-style Britain of passively coexisting ethnic and religious communities, eyeing each other over the fences of our differences." He concluded:

"We are sleepwalking our way to segregation. We are becoming strangers to each other and leaving communities to be marooned outside the mainstream."

Well it's just words, they could just be scare mongering.

Tower Hamlets and other parts of East London have been the focus of repeated attempts by Islamists to impose Sharia law on members of the public.

Extremist Muslim preachers — sometimes referred to as the Tower Hamlets Taliban — have issued death threats to women who refuse to wear Islamic veils. Neighborhood streets have been plastered with posters declaring: "You are entering a Sharia controlled zone. Islamic rules enforced." And street advertising deemed offensive to Muslims has been vandalized or blacked out with spray paint.

Ah, well it's just the Daily Mail.

The Sunday Telegraph uncovered more than a dozen other instances in Tower Hamlets where both Muslims and non-Muslims have been threatened or beaten for behavior considered to be a breach of fundamentalist "Islamic norms." Victims said that police ignored or downplayed outbreaks of hate crime, and suppressed evidence implicating Muslims in them, because they feared being accused of racism or "Islamophobia."

One victim, Mohammed Monzur Rahman, was left partially blind after being attacked by a mob in Cannon Street Road, Shadwell, for smoking during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. "Two guys stopped me in the street and asked me why I was smoking," he said. "I just carried on, and before I knew another dozen guys came and jumped me. The next thing I knew, I was waking up in hospital."

Well the Telegraph's not much better.

The owners of restaurants and shops in Brick Lane in Whitechapel, a popular area of London, have been warned that they faced 40 lashes if they continued to sell alcoholic products.

The Times. It's probably a one off.

In Leytonstone in East London, the former Home Secretary John Reid was heckled by the Muslim extremist Abu Izzadeen who yelled: "How dare you come to a Muslim area." A four-minute video of the incident can be viewed here.

Two off.

Muslim gangs have also been filmed loitering on London streets and demanding that passersby conform to Sharia law. In a series of videos, the self-proclaimed vigilantes — who called themselves Muslim London Patrol — are seen abusing non-Muslim pedestrians and repeatedly shouting "this is a Muslim area."

One video records the men shouting: "Allah is the greatest! Islam is here, whether you like it or not. We are here! We are here! What we need is Islam! What we need is Sharia!"

The video continues:

"We are the Muslim Patrol. We are in north London, we are in south London, in east London and west London. We command good and forbid evil. Islam is here in London. [Prime Minister] David Cameron, Mr. Police Officer, whether you like it or not, we will command good and forbid evil. You will never get us. You can go to hell! This is not a Christian country. To hell with Christianity. Isa [Jesus] was a messenger of Allah. Muslim Patrol will never die. Allah is great! Allah is great! We are coming!"

In January 2015, twelve of the men were given Antisocial Behavior Orders ("Asbos"), forbidding them from "forcing their views on others" for a period of three years. Their spiritual mentor is a British-born Islamist agitator named Anjem Choudary, whose parents migrated from Pakistan.

Ok this looks bad but they arent banning non muslims from walking the streets.

In 2009, the Birmingham Mail reported that native British working class Brummies [colloquial term for the inhabitants, accent and dialect of Birmingham] feared that parts of their city had become no-go areas for them. The article cited research carried out by the UK Department of Communities and Local Government, which questioned residents from the Castle Vale neighborhood about their feelings on immigration.

The report highlighted concerns that white people were not welcome in parts of Birmingham at night, and quoted an anonymous male contributor who described an area with a high "Asian" population where a road sign was sprayed with the phrase: "No Whites after 8:30." He said:

"Perhaps I need to work harder in understanding the different cultures and things like that, but there's things that I see when I'm driving around Birmingham that shouldn't be happening.

"There's these areas that have completely been took over... and you do feel very uneasy. Not just me, and I only drive into these areas, never actually walk into these areas, I just wouldn't. Just in case I did do something that I... because of their culture or their religion it was a threat or it was an insult or something, because we don't understand."

In 2011, the magazine Standpoint published the first-hand account of a British clergyman's wife who had just returned to London after living in Birmingham for the past four years. She wrote:

"For four years, we lived in inner-city Birmingham, in what has been a police no-go area for 20 years. We know that because some plain-clothed cops told us when they asked to use our vicarage as a stake-out to bust drugs rings that pervade the area. Even during this time we saw the area change. When we arrived, the population was predominantly Pakistani. Now Somalis are there in equal number. Most of the run-down Irish pubs were turned into mosques during our time.

"One day he [her husband] was chatting to a man with a passing resemblance to Lawrence of Arabia, who had just arrived from Antwerp—one of an increasing number of Muslims who are arriving here with EU passports. He asked him why he had come to Birmingham. He was surprised at the question: 'Everybody knows. Birmingham—best place in Europe to be pure Muslim.' Well, there must be many places in Europe where Muslims are entirely free to practice their faith, but I suspect there are few places in which they can have so little contact with the civic and legal structure of a Western state if they choose.

"To a London reader, born and bred with multiculturalism, I know that my stories may come across as outlandish and exaggerated… When I recently told a friend how a large Taliban flag fluttered gaily on a house near St Andrew's football stadium for some months, her cry of 'Can't you tell the police?' made me reflect how far many of our inner cities have been abandoned by our key workers: our doctors and nurses drive in from afar, the police, as mentioned before, have shut down their stations and never venture in unless in extremis—they and ambulance crews have been known to be attacked—even the local Imam lives in a leafier area."

Well it's not like they're trying to seceed or anything.

In July 2011, "Muslims Against Crusades," a group founded by Choudary, launched a campaign to turn twelve British cities — including what it calls "Londonistan" — into independent Islamic states. The so-called Islamic Emirates would function as autonomous enclaves ruled by Islamic Sharia law and operate outside British jurisprudence.

The Islamic Emirates Project named the British cities of Birmingham, Bradford, Derby, Dewsbury, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester, Sheffield, as well as Waltham Forest in northeast London and Tower Hamlets in East London, as territories to be targeted for blanket Sharia rule.

Muslims Against Crusades (proscribed in November 2011) is one of the many reincarnations of the Muslim extremist group al-Muhajiroun, which was banned in January 2010. A study published by the London-based Henry Jackson Society in September 2014 found that one in five terrorists convicted in Britain over more than a decade have had links to al-Muhajiroun.

An investigative report published by the British anti-fascism group Hope Not Hate in November 2013 concluded that al-Muhajiroun was "the single biggest gateway to terrorism in recent British history."

Is that good enough for Idaho? No. But it'll be interesting to talk about.

Well, now that the issue of no go zones has been confirmed as being real, though not entirely as wide spread as americans may think, I wonder if the next few posts will be relevent discussion, reasonable attempts to dissuade or debunk, desperate assertations of "not all muslims" and "the christians are just as bad", or just "tl;dr lol".

[a completely inoffensive name]

My full response is in the making, but for the time being I will just say lol all muslims since the christrians are just as tl;dr.

[Husar]

Sometimes, when I do not feel like reading an entire post or article, I just google the author and begin to find things like this:

http://islamversuseurope.blogspot.de...-kern-lol.html

Apparently he likes to copy the work of others, yet is represented as an expert. The Gatestone Institute I looked up before, it is also an anti-islamic fringe site that is trying to pass off as serious.
As for no-go-areas, define what that is. There arecertainly some neighborhoods where the immigrant-inhabitants are not very nice to the police or even the "locals", those should obviously not exist. You can however also go to the wrong area in the US and get robbed by a mexican gang with crosses on their necklaces, is that also a "muslim no-go-area" or is that better? And when orthodox jews in Israel attack Christians and/or their churches, does that mean it's a "muslim no-go-area" or does that count under valid cultural diversity? I'm not entirely sure about the definitions and aim of the topic here.

https://electronicintifada.net/conte...goes-virtually
http://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/...naction-410508
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ader-says.html
http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009...stones-at.html

Again, do I support the existance of such behavior or the fact that the governments do not always do enough to stop it? Eh, who would?
Should we allow our societies to have areas where noone dares to go? Certainly not... So why do they exist almost anywhere and why do people only complain when they are created by muslims? When did we have the last thread about "Fix the Harlem-no-go-zone already!!!111"? Or does Harlem count as valid cultural diversity?

[Greyblades]

I wasnt actually expecting someone to deflect that hard. It is rather sad really.

[AE Bravo]

That's easy. I can concede that. Maybe we have the same image of the elephant.

What's your solution?

*crickets*

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That's easy. I can concede that. Maybe we have the same image of the elephant.

What's your solution?

*crickets*

Reduce the number of police cars and increase the number of foot patrols.

Police Foot patrols reduce crime whereas cars merely catch criminals.

The most important thing in these areas is to ensure the law is enforced. If you can force the immigrant groups to accept that the law is present you can make them fear it and encourage them to appeal to it rather than mob justice.

And yes - everyone should fear the Law.

[Fragony]

That's easy. I can concede that. Maybe we have the same image of the elephant.

What's your solution?

*crickets*

I kinda get annoyed when people ask what the solution is, there isn't one. Political correctness has always been the problem.