Battle of Hattin - 1187

[edyzmedieval]

One of the most complex, and enjoyable, historical battles in the TW series.

That being said, does anyone have any suggestions on how to win it?

Royal Knights and Templar Knights are always the problem when you play Hattin.

[Gilrandir]

It is the second battle for Saladin, right?
I have this battle saved (where I won it), so if I knew how to share it I would. If you try to explain it, though, you will have to do it in a fool-proof way, I'm afraid.

In case I can't do that: basically, I don't have a problem with it. I march all my units to where the crusaders are waiting, but deploy them on the hills above the valley (opposite the enemy). Then I take some horse archers and start peperring the closest units of the enemy with arrows. If arrows are exhausted, the unit gets to the rear and another one takes its place (it shoudn't be a problem since there are about six horse archer units, IIRC). Normally the crusaders try to chase my horse archers with foot soldiers, and they can never do that because my archers skirmish. They also have a couple of Turcopoles, so you may target them with your horse archers if they are within the arrowflight. But I usually try to target Hospitalliers or Sergeants or even Knights if I can get close enough. I also have some Ghulam cavalry not very far (but out of the enemy's bowshot) in case some unit of crusaders gives a long chase and separates from the bulk of the army. Then you can mop it up on the flat.

After some time the enemy is quite tired through constant attempts to chase me (and those who stay put - the knights - suffer from the heat and are also tired). Very often it is only the Knights that are left. So then you can draw your army closer and attack them trying to have some units hit them from the rear (it might be some horse archers who had ran out of ammo).

This battle takes a longish time to finish, but less speed more haste. If you have any questions which I can answer, be my guest. Good luck to you!

[DEB8]

I march all my units to where the crusaders are waiting, but deploy them on the hills above the valley (opposite the enemy). Then I take some horse archers and start peperring the closest units of the enemy with arrows. Normally the crusaders try to chase my horse archers with foot soldiers, and they can never do that because my archers skirmish. They also have a couple of Turcopoles, so you may target them with your horse archers if they are within the arrowflight. But I usually try to target Hospitalliers or Sergeants or even Knights if I can get close enough. I also have some Ghulam cavalry not very far (but out of the enemy's bowshot) in case some unit of crusaders gives a long chase and separates from the bulk of the army. Then you can mop it up on the flat.

So then you can draw your army closer and attack them trying to have some units hit them from the rear (it might be some horse archers who had ran out of ammo).

The above edited comment/s roughly equates to my victory in this battle. I also put some of my cavalry on the plain to the left ( as you look at it ) of the Franks. The AI did not deal well with this twin "attack". My object here was to attack in the flank / rear when the Franks attempted to "engage" near the hillside front.

[ NB : you may have to come off the "hillside" to remain in archery range / entice them to attack you ! Don't try to flank them on the right ( as you look at it ) ; there is not enough room to manoeuvre here !! ]

[Gilrandir]

.... And?
Where is the report of a (hopefully) successful outcome of the battle in question?

[LordK9]

No one raised bail yet - the Sultan is asking quite bit. :)

[edyzmedieval]

Cheers for all of your replies!

Before I asked the question, I tried the battle a couple of times in the past. Most of my cavalry archers were focused on the Crusaders right flank (left flank for your army), peppering the spearmen and the rest of the infantry so that it would be easier to deal with the knights and Templars once you move in with your core infantry. Whilst the cavalry archers were doing the work, dealing with those knights would engage the rest of the army, and it's not that effective to attack on the right flank as DEB8 pointed out.

Will give it a try with the ideas outlined above. My thanks gentlemen.

[Gilrandir]

Cheers for all of your replies!

Before I asked the question, I tried the battle a couple of times in the past. Most of my cavalry archers were focused on the Crusaders right flank (left flank for your army), peppering the spearmen and the rest of the infantry so that it would be easier to deal with the knights and Templars once you move in with your core infantry. Whilst the cavalry archers were doing the work, dealing with those knights would engage the rest of the army, and it's not that effective to attack on the right flank as DEB8 pointed out.

Will give it a try with the ideas outlined above. My thanks gentlemen.

Just keep the bulk of your army uphill while you use your horse archers.

And, btw, Drone, my question is still unanswered - can I share the battles I saved with others to see?

[drone]

And, btw, Drone, my question is still unanswered - can I share the battles I saved with others to see?

You should be able to attach files to posts. Look for the paperclip icon in the post editor. You might need to make a zip file out of it, I think only certain file extensions are allowed.

[Gilrandir]

??????? 2.7z
Tried to attach the file having archivized it into zip format, but I don't think I did it right.

[drone]

Works fine, but the file has to be renamed for those of us without the Cyrillic version of the game.

I don't think I would have the patience to let those archers in the center go unmolested for as long as you did. You have to since you can't get locked down in melee at that stage, but soooo annoying/tempting.

[Gilrandir]

Works fine, but the file has to be renamed for those of us without the Cyrillic version of the game.

I didn't know the name mattered. In fact, it is called Saladin 2.

I don't think I would have the patience to let those archers in the center go unmolested for as long as you did. You have to since you can't get locked down in melee at that stage, but soooo annoying/tempting.

I have watched it a while back so I don't know whose archers you mean. If mine, than, perhaps you think too high of me. It could have been a sign not of my warcraft, but a simple overlooking.

[drone]

I didn't know the name mattered. In fact, it is called Saladin 2.

I think it's just a localization issue, my version couldn't open the replay, it showed up in the menu as a bunch of question marks (?) while in Windows the file had cyrillic letters.

I have watched it a while back so I don't know whose archers you mean. If mine, than, perhaps you think too high of me. It could have been a sign not of my warcraft, but a simple overlooking.

The crusaders had 2 archer units in the center, forward of their lines, and they just fired away while you were kiting the Templar Knights on your right side with horse archers. Nothing you could really do about it, but it looks like they took a toll. I probably would have charged them out of annoyance and lost a unit or two.

[Gilrandir]

The crusaders had 2 archer units in the center, forward of their lines, and they just fired away while you were kiting the Templar Knights on your right side with horse archers. Nothing you could really do about it, but it looks like they took a toll. I probably would have charged them out of annoyance and lost a unit or two.

My statement stays. When playing a battle with a huge number of units involved I never have enough time to spend for all parts of the battlefield. But in this case I guess I could afford casualties in the units that I had in plenty in exchange for the goal I had in mind. And eventually it was worth it.

[Gilrandir]

I have quite a number of other battles (both historic and in campaigns) saved. If anyone cares I could share them as well.