Another week, another mass shooting

[Gilrandir]

True that, but it's still odd that he was so unspecific, just 'who is christan'. Maybe he was a satanist or a radical atheist, but I would put my money on a convert, maybe he still had to earn his name.

Perhaps he was misheard. He asked "who is Chris?". Didn't want any of his namesakes around.

[Risasi]

I hate these stories. It seems like there are a lot of them, but that's because the media goes rabid with 24/7 coverage for the next three months. I just did a quick count. In this century I think only* 239 people were killed in these mass shootings in the US.

Source: http://timelines.latimes.com/deadlie...ting-rampages/

To put that in perspective, the number of homicides in Chicago for 2014 was 426. One year! Much of this is related to gangs. It's all but ignored by the news media. It also has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. Do these murders not matter? Some of these aren't just gang members, but also innocents caught in the crossfire. My point is that it seems like there are a lot, but statistically mass shootings are a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things. And they have been happening for decades. These media jackals are just chasing market share. Schools shootings get eyeballs, which sells ads.

Killers will find a way no matter what. Was it Indonesia or Malaysia who coined the term to "run amok"? There, instead of shootings they just go nuts with a knife. Last year I believe there were about 30+ killed in western China by a group with knives. It didn't make the news much though.

Anywhere that has a lot of people in one place where it's very likely they are disarmed will be a target for these rampage killers, regardless of the tools used.

Here is a good example. I believe this is still the record holder for mass school killing in the United States, in 1927 no less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
44 killed and another 58 injured.

Now I'm not saying don't report on these incidents, but perhaps the media should find a means of reporting all about these evil, wicked (Can I say demonic?) murderers without making them somehow immortalized by like-minded individuals?

I do know this. No matter what we will never stop these incidents from happening. Humans have been killing each other since Cain picked up a stick or a rock, or whatever it was and whacked his own brother. Can they be minimized? Perhaps. That's a separate argument though.





*Not trying to make light of that number, it's still deplorable and sickening. I wouldn't see any innocent lives lost.

[Veho Nex]

Mass shootings sell. It's as simple as that. Over the next 30 days we will see a bunch of uneducated morans gathering conclusions without evidence. Some fool on twitter is gunna go #oreshooter knew him in 3rd grade he was bullied and BOOM for the next 6 hours that's all they'll discuss. Then some idiot in facebook is going to show a picture of them and the shooter when they were 12 fishing and how he was a normal guy, BOOM, 6 more hours of "if only we saw his pain". Our society needs work, more importantly our society's obsession with sensationalist journalism needs work.

[Fragony]

Perhaps he was misheard. He asked "who is Chris?". Didn't want any of his namesakes around.

I'll take the whole weight of redicule if I am wrong, that's the risk of suggesting something, you can be totally wrong. Hooa is probably right, but how could I know

[Hooahguy]

Killers will find a way no matter what. Was it Indonesia or Malaysia who coined the term to "run amok"? There, instead of shootings they just go nuts with a knife. Last year I believe there were about 30+ killed in western China by a group with knives. It didn't make the news much though.

To be fair in that instance with the almost 30 dead in China from a knife attack, it was 10 perpetrators in a terror attack not a single deranged person. While I dont disagree that people will find a way to commit murders, Im sure there is something out there that can lessen them.

And a very relevant segment by Charlie Brooker:

[Risasi]

To be fair in that instance with the almost 30 dead in China from a knife attack, it was 10 perpetrators in a terror attack not a single deranged person. While I dont disagree that people will find a way to commit murders, Im sure there is something out there that can lessen them.

Yeah, I agree. There is a culture in the US regarding firearms I think is unhealthy. However don't take that to mean I believe we need more gun laws. My viewpoint is...complicated.

Meanwhile in other news, there is actually less: http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...lumn/73199052/

I don't have time to check the video out now, but I will. Thanks.

[Veho Nex]

You never hear about the shootings that were stopped by a law abiding citizen with a concealed or open carry firearm. My favorite reading material on the terlit at my dads house is his NRA magazines that do articles about so and so in such and such area who only fired one or two shots before someone took them down. Yeah NRA mags probably not the best source of unbiased information regarding firearms and those who use them buuut. The fact that those kind of stories exist and we never see them beyond local news points more towards our mainstream media being the huge push factor for mass shootings.

Like Risai said earlier, far more people die every year due to gang violence in our major cities than have died from all mass shootings in the last hundred and 20 years. Why isn't the sensationalist media jumping on Chicago's increase in murders this year? I think I've seen 4 separate articles since Jan each claiming the most violent(homicidal) week (or weekend) in city history.

Why are the thousands killed per year ignored for the (relative) handful killed in a tragic situation?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Do you want to live in a world where the reason there aren't more mass shootings is because it's normal to kill people to stop them?

Apparently, you do.

[Hooahguy]

You never hear about the shootings that were stopped by a law abiding citizen with a concealed or open carry firearm. My favorite reading material on the terlit at my dads house is his NRA magazines that do articles about so and so in such and such area who only fired one or two shots before someone took them down. Yeah NRA mags probably not the best source of unbiased information regarding firearms and those who use them buuut. The fact that those kind of stories exist and we never see them beyond local news points more towards our mainstream media being the huge push factor for mass shootings.

Yeah I dont really buy into the idea that more guns would solve anything. Fact is, if you look into most of the instances where a "law abiding citizen" took down a shooter, Im seeing a lot of cases where the citizen is also an off-duty police officer/security guard, or has a military background.

Like Risai said earlier, far more people die every year due to gang violence in our major cities than have died from all mass shootings in the last hundred and 20 years. Why isn't the sensationalist media jumping on Chicago's increase in murders this year? I think I've seen 4 separate articles since Jan each claiming the most violent(homicidal) week (or weekend) in city history.

Why are the thousands killed per year ignored for the (relative) handful killed in a tragic situation?

Gang violence is just as tragic, but also not anywhere near as much of an anomaly. As been said before, the media wont go nuts over one or two people being killed in a gang shootout. Its about the anomaly. Granted, mass shootings seem to be less of an anomaly nowadays but still an anomaly. Just like single fatality car crashes will barely make the local news anymore but if there is a multiple fatality or otherwise large car crash then the local papers are all over it.

[Ironside]

Gang violence is just as tragic, but also not anywhere near as much of an anomaly. As been said before, the media wont go nuts over one or two people being killed in a gang shootout. Its about the anomaly. Granted, mass shootings seem to be less of an anomaly nowadays but still an anomaly. Just like single fatality car crashes will barely make the local news anymore but if there is a multiple fatality or otherwise large car crash then the local papers are all over it.

I think this is a good summary. Short version. Mass shootings are a lot more common than the population would indicate in the US. School mass shootings are vastly more common.

And the number of all mass shooting have tripled since 2011. And none knows why, because there's no obvious answer and since it's gun violence, research is forbidden.

[Veho Nex]

Do you want to live in a world where the reason there aren't more mass shootings is because it's normal to kill people to stop them?

Apparently, you do.

Yes I do. I would much rather read about one guy being shot after he opened fire than about 5, 10, 20, or more unarmed people being shot. I feel an armed society would be a safer society. Everyone who clamors for gun control and firearm buybacks and restrictive sales doesn't realize that closing the barn door after the horses are gone is not doing anything. I'm a strong believer in background checks and going in for a mental checkup every X years to just verify people. We won't see those things but taking our guns away is the wrong direction to go.

Yeah I dont really buy into the idea that more guns would solve anything. Fact is, if you look into most of the instances where a "law abiding citizen" took down a shooter, Im seeing a lot of cases where the citizen is also an off-duty police officer/security guard, or has a military background.

Does the fact they were off-duty, security, or ex military reduce what they did? They were an armed citizen at that point, they were not there for the express purpose of protecting the unarmed. The fact that we hear none of this on national channels is a sad state of events.

[Papewaio]

Yet somehow Australia did it and it has reduced gun crimes.

We had a potential yet to be determined terrorist/mentally ill attack on the NSW Police HQ yesterday. This attack made national news and is still being reviewed as to why.

The attacker killed one unarmed IT staff member as he walked out the building, the attacker went on to attack the occupants. Attacker died with no other casualties.

It is unusual enough to make national news. Double shooting fatality in Australia's largest city.

[HopAlongBunny]

SNAFU
Gun violence is neither rare, nor unique.
The US is consciously invested in gun violence through explicit policy choices.
The ritual of pretending to be surprised or shocked by predictable outcomes is theater in place of political will.

http://wonkette.com/594479/mass-shoo...ept-every-week

[Risasi]

This just hit my radar. What the hell in a handbasket? Not to detract from this story, as it's not exactly the same, but 50+ dead in a mass killing in China: http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uygh...015174319.html

People are just plain nuts, or evil...

[CrossLOPER]

r9k section

/r9k/ is for complete wastes who have completely given up any effort to be constructive, and decided that they are hopeless victims and therefore can commit to the most vile modes of thinking without any compunctions. I have not been on 4chins that much in the past several months, but most of the other boards ridicule them. They are the only board that, rather than pursuing external pleasures such as video games, fitness, DIY, anime or porn, and instead focus inwardly towards their perceived self-worthlessness. Most of the more disturbing stuff is created by the things that inhabit that particular board. If you want to feel better about your mental state, I suggest you visit it sometime.

[a completely inoffensive name]

/r9k/ is for complete wastes who have completely given up any effort to be constructive, and decided that they are hopeless victims and therefore can commit to the most vile modes of thinking without any compunctions. I have not been on 4chins that much in the past several months, but most of the other boards ridicule them. They are the only board that, rather than pursuing external pleasures such as video games, fitness, DIY, anime or porn, and instead focus inwardly towards their perceived self-worthlessness. Most of the more disturbing stuff is created by the things that inhabit that particular board. If you want to feel better about your mental state, I suggest you visit it sometime.

Or maybe never visit that website. Because, you know, the whole culture is toxic and warps your view. Does /v/ even consider video games pleasure anymore, or is everyone and everything still autistic?

[wooly_mammoth]

What are we even talking about here? Children and students must not be mass-murdered in educational institutions by their own taffing colleagues with daddy's gun or a weapon they purchased with the ease with which I purchase peanuts at the supermarket. America is the only civilized country in the world where a troubled teenager/young adult grabs a gun and shoots everything that moves in his school/university on a regular basis, probably losing the first place for the number of such incidents to some third world disaster area in Africa that because of someone's twisted sense of humor is also called a "country" (and even then it's not another student, bur rather terrorist groups).

I find it deeply disgusting that a country which can't fix an issue as simple as preventing students from being shot to death by their own colleagues regularly, finds it appropriate to give others lessons in democracy. The US are about the same size of Europe and have half the population. Sort this crap out for taff's sake.

[Ironside]

This just hit my radar. What the hell in a handbasket? Not to detract from this story, as it's not exactly the same, but 50+ dead in a mass killing in China: http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uygh...015174319.html

People are just plain nuts, or evil...

Short version. You know that scare that the immigrants are coming for your jobs? That's true in those parts and to make it way worse, they will get all the good jobs. The central government will invest money into a project (like a mine) and import Han Chinese for almost all worker positions.

The US version would be 10-15 people armed with guns storming banks killing everyone inside, as a terrorist protest move.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Yes I do. I would much rather read about one guy being shot after he opened fire than about 5, 10, 20, or more unarmed people being shot. I feel an armed society would be a safer society. Everyone who clamors for gun control and firearm buybacks and restrictive sales doesn't realize that closing the barn door after the horses are gone is not doing anything. I'm a strong believer in background checks and going in for a mental checkup every X years to just verify people. We won't see those things but taking our guns away is the wrong direction to go.

So - you want to live in fear? That's what you're doing, you fear the maniacs and you want guns to protect you.

Here's a titbit

"Dressed in a flak jacket, Chris Harper Mercer brought six guns to Umpqua Community College in Roseburg and opened fire on Thursday morning.He was killed by police in a gun battle and another seven weapons were found at his home. All 13 were bought legally."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34428410

Does the fact they were off-duty, security, or ex military reduce what they did? They were an armed citizen at that point, they were not there for the express purpose of protecting the unarmed. The fact that we hear none of this on national channels is a sad state of events.

No, it demonstrates that an actual civilian would be unlikely to do the same.

[Fisherking]

I have a different question.

Why are people unwilling or unable to look to their own self defence but seem to require third parties to look after them?

Do we see acts of resistance in these cases or almost quiet resignation to being murdered. Even though while the risk may be great, people can overpower such attackers.

[wooly_mammoth]

I have a different question.

Why are people unwilling or unable to look to their own self defence but seem to require third parties to look after them?

Do we see acts of resistance in these cases or almost quiet resignation to being murdered. Even though while the risk may be great, people can overpower such attackers.

I've read that a guy with military training that happened to be around did rush the gunman and took 5 shots in the process. He's in the hospital now but should make a full recovery. I remember another such incident from some years ago when a professor decided to block an entryway and get shredded in order to buy his students enough time to barricade themselves inside the classroom. I guess it is to be expected that most people completely lose themselves to fear in such a situation and are unable to mount any resistance, but it's not always the case.

[Fisherking]

I've read that a guy with military training that happened to be around did rush the gunman and took 5 shots in the process. He's in the hospital now but should make a full recovery. I remember another such incident from some years ago when a professor decided to block an entryway and get shredded in order to buy his students enough time to barricade themselves inside the classroom. I guess it is to be expected that most people completely lose themselves to fear in such a situation and are unable to mount any resistance, but it's not always the case.

The old “Fight or Flight” response. One might expect to see more Fight when Flight is lost as an option. Most of these people just seem to be lacking in a desire for self preservation…

[Gilrandir]

Why are people unwilling or unable to look to their own self defence but seem to require third parties to look after them?

Some time ago people (at least in Europe) agreed that there is only one "third party" that has the right to violence, and that is the state. It (and only it) is supposed to see to it that no other party is violent. The USA settled on a different choice enabling all and sundry to carry weapons and thus broke (or never adopted) the state's monopoly on violence. These choices ultimately determined what we are witnessing now.

[Fragony]

Some time ago people (at least in Europe) agreed that there is only one "third party" that has the right to violence, and that is the state. It (and only it) is supposed to see to it that no other party is violent. The USA settled on a different choice enabling all and sundry to carry weapons and thus broke (or never adopted) the state's monopoly on violence. These choices ultimately determined what we are witnessing now.

State monopily doesn't count if they can't sustain it, than it's a false promisieve. Liquidations are pretty normal here by now, not that it pushess any stress but nobody is surprised if there is another one, happens almost every week, or day. Wouldn't be all too dismissive about questioning the monopoly of violence.

[Greyblades]

Could we drop the economics metaphor? This is gonna get confusing quick.

[Gilrandir]

State monopily doesn't count if they can't sustain it, than it's a false promisieve. Liquidations are pretty normal here by now, not that it pushess any stress but nobody is surprised if there is another one, happens almost every week, or day. Wouldn't be all too dismissive about questioning the monopoly of violence.

This is the main poblem - the ability of a state to sustain the monopoly. Of course there are breaches of the monopoly which allow you to advocate free access of citizens to fire arms. But there are no perfect states. No country has zero criminality. Yet no one denies that such shootouts are far more often in the USA than in Europe. But I think I'm right in believing that public opinion in Europe is still largely in favor of the state keeping that monopoly and protecting them.

[Gilrandir]

Could we drop the economics metaphor? This is gonna get confusing quick.

Here you go. Now metaphors are also to be avoided. Lakoff and Johnson (http://theliterarylink.com/metaphors.html) are weeping unashamedly.

[Greyblades]

I cant tell if fragony's use of "liquidation" meant murder or weapon seizure. My conscience is fine with letting two random men weep if I dont have to deal with such an enigma in every post.

[Veho Nex]

Yet somehow Australia did it and it has reduced gun crimes.

There are 300 million registered firearms in the United States. There are 23.13 million people in Australia. I'll let you do the math on why taking hundreds of billions of dollars and buying back guns for pennies on the dollar isn't going to work here.

So - you want to live in fear? That's what you're doing, you fear the maniacs and you want guns to protect you.

Does it come across as me being afraid? I'm sorry but as someone who educates people in firearm safety I don't find them to be this unknown scary thing a lot of people do. I understand they are deadly weapons when used with that intent. The only time I've ever been afraid from the unknown was taking a wrong turn down a street in Oakland at 11pm.

No, it demonstrates that an actual civilian would be unlikely to do the same.

I've never been in a situation like this but I do hope I would act with bravery and put myself between someone who intends harm and those who are to afraid to act. I'm not a cop, ex military, or anything like that.

What are we even talking about here? Children and students must not be mass-murdered in educational institutions by their own taffing colleagues with daddy's gun or a weapon they purchased with the ease with which I purchase peanuts at the supermarket.

I take it you've never tried to purchase a firearm. Places like California or Chicago have the country's strictest gun control laws but it's easier for me to purchase a firearm from the blackmarket, also cheaper, than it is to go into my local gun store or gun show and purchase a firearm.

Every human being has the right to defend themselves. If that right is removed and only the "elect few" have the right to defend the majority do we see corruption take place as those few realize no one can stop them. In Oakland the average police response time to a is 15 minutes. Those would be the longest and possibly last 15 minutes of someones life because they refuse to fight or cannot fight.

[Fisherking]

Some time ago people (at least in Europe) agreed that there is only one "third party" that has the right to violence, and that is the state. It (and only it) is supposed to see to it that no other party is violent. The USA settled on a different choice enabling all and sundry to carry weapons and thus broke (or never adopted) the state's monopoly on violence. These choices ultimately determined what we are witnessing now.

Mass murder is not that uncommon. What is uncommon is that this is the work of an individual. Usually it is carried out by groups and more often than not by governments.