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Thread: Reducing this town's cost(??)

  1. #1

    Default Reducing this town's cost(??)

    Why is this city running at such a loss? Is it simply the amount of troops it has produced?

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  2. #2
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    Military upkeep costs & generals' wages are divided among your cities following their size, as you can see in the left panel on the income section. More populous cities will take more of the cost, so Ariminum must be one of your larger cities if it takes so much expenditure. You should use the financial information (click the big red button with your family crest, right next to end turn) to plan out your economical development and investments in the military so that you don't end up with an army that is too expensive to maintain. Also, don't adopt or marry just about any miscreant into the family. Take only people that have potential at being good and are worth the money you will be putting in them.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    Many thanks.

    Is it possible to assign units to different cities so they take the cost of the unit instead? It is also possible to fire family members, generals etc?

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    That page does not represent a city's true economic value (the Settlement Detail Scroll). As Wooly stated, army upkeep (plus family and agent wages) are divided amongst your cities with the larger cities bearing a heavier burden. If you access the Trade Summary Scroll (where all the individual trade details are kept) you'll see the true picture of a city's worth. A city that appears to be operating at a loss (like in your screenie) is actually making money. Army/Navy upkeep are not the only factors affecting income. Squalor, Public Order, and Devastation caused by enemy armies in your province all affect income. Pay particular attention to the first two...they can potentially cripple your economy

    As a general rule, your total army/navy costs + family member wages + agent costs should not exceed 1/2 of your total income. You can deviate from this depending on the situation, but if you stay close to that number you should have enough money to build infrastructure, and raise new armies/navies.

    Is it possible to assign units to different cities so they take the cost of the unit instead
    Not sure what you mean by this The garrison actually stationed is the one charged for...you cannot "substitute".

    Here are two discussions (a bit technical, but full of great info on garrison effects, and city economics as related to squalor):

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...rrison-Effects

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...?37586-Squalor

    It is also possible to fire family members, generals
    No. There are two alternatives to being rid of unwanted family members....load them on a bireme and send them out to attack the biggest fleet you can find, or send them to attack a city without any other troops and auto-resolve the battle

    On one occasion, I did the second...sent a single family member (as the Seleucids, IIRC) to attack a rebel-held town. Expecting the "Honorable Death" cut-scene, to my complete amazement he comes up with a "Heroic Victory" and earns two silver chevrons in the process Needless to say, I didn't have the heart to send him on another suicide mission and he turned out to be a decent governor with all the good traits he picked up from the battle
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 02-03-2016 at 16:43.
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    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    ^That story reminds me of my Sarmatian campaign (felt a bit like a necromancer resurrecting all those guides and never made any comments for my journey through BI ). I was besieging the Sassanid capital of Ctesiphon with a doomstack containing two generals, 10 units of horde horse archers and 8 runaway slave spearmen. Not a potent force, but the city was held by a single Sassanid general. Since it was a horde army and was about to be completely disbanded anyway once the city was taken, I decided to autoresolve this particular battle (usually I play absolutely everything by myself, even the smallest of skirmishes). So I click autoresolve and...

    SURPRISE CRUSHING DEFEAT!

    Autoresolve can be very strange at times.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    Thanks.

    Here is a shot of the trade screen from the same city.


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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    Two things:

    The city is making money, but because it's probably one of your largest cities, it bears a higher proportion of your operating costs as determined by the way RTW distributes those costs.

    Second, you are close to getting to the next tier of governing building. After you put up the new Governor's Palace, you might want to consider upgrading your basic port to a shipwright. That doubles your capability to handle sea trade (in addition to being able to build triremes), and sea trade will eventually bring in more income than all other forms of income (farming, taxes, etc)...combined.

    Pay attention to the level of road development, especially roads to Rome. Highways (which Romans can build) will also dramatically increase land trade. Developing roads beyond what your neighbors have does no good, however. The trade calcs are done using the lesser developed roads no matter if yours are better.

    As a Roman faction there's no need to secure trade agreements with other Roman factions...you already get the highest rate. With other factions, you still get a minimal trade with friendlies or neutrals, but a formal trade agreement doubles the trade, so secure all the trade agreements you can, even with factions you plan on conquering later

    One more thing...every player plays to their own pace, and the important thing is to enjoy the game. But......

    ........11 years in and you've only added Segesta to your empire?? I highly suggest you move quicker to engage the Gauls or you will soon be pleading to the SPQR for assistance from their doomstack to fend them off
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 02-04-2016 at 02:01.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    Really appreciate the advice, thanks.

    I had no idea of the time that had past as this is really my first proper play through. The Gauls have been a real pain in the butt and really slowed my progress by attacking and regaining settlements I had just taken. The Senate hasn't help by asking me to capture towns miles from my front lines which are then retaken or continually harrassed dragging me into drawn out skirmihes.

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    Member Member Yesugey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    Quote Originally Posted by wooly_mammoth View Post
    ^That story reminds me of my Sarmatian campaign (felt a bit like a necromancer resurrecting all those guides and never made any comments for my journey through BI ). I was besieging the Sassanid capital of Ctesiphon with a doomstack containing two generals, 10 units of horde horse archers and 8 runaway slave spearmen. Not a potent force, but the city was held by a single Sassanid general. Since it was a horde army and was about to be completely disbanded anyway once the city was taken, I decided to autoresolve this particular battle (usually I play absolutely everything by myself, even the smallest of skirmishes). So I click autoresolve and...

    SURPRISE CRUSHING DEFEAT!

    Autoresolve can be very strange at times.
    :) I hear you mate.

    To be fair, Sassanid Immortal General is the most strongest imbalancest unit in the game, ever. (3 hitpoints and an armor thicker than Cataptacht, and bows and arrows. Plus, RTW:BI have the strongest General's Bodyguard units in whole TW series.) And horde units cracks so quickly.

    So I like to ask you did you won the same battle by playing yourself? I remember I lost several battles with my horde stack against only 3 or 4 Warlord units defending a narrow street in a city.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    The Senate hasn't help by asking me to capture towns miles from my front lines which are then retaken or continually harrassed
    As stated earlier, you can ignore some Senate missions...just make sure you complete enough of them to keep from getting docked money

    The Gauls have been a real pain in the butt and really slowed my progress by attacking and regaining settlements I had just taken
    The Julii were my least favorite Roman faction so I never played them much but a few things I learned... Once you capture Patavium and Mediolanium, there are three mountain passes where you can build forts that essentially stop them cold. The first is to the west of Mediolanium and it forces a river crossing to boot...easy to defend. This will force the AI to try the pass just to the NW of Mediolanium where you can build a fort. More difficult defense than the first, but still to your advantage. The third is to the NE of Patavium. Another narrow pass where you can build a fort if needs be. You can defend all three without a fort if you wish. In every case (and this isn't always the case when defending mountain passes...discussion for another time) you will have a decided terrain advantage and should crush any attempt by the Gauls to retake. These are the only three ways a Gallic army can reach those cities other than a looong circuitous route through Dacian territory. This will buy time to consolidate before beginning your "Caesar in Gaul" campaign. Or maybe you'll want to head off to Greece for richer lands and just hold the Gauls at bay There are plenty of Julii campaign suggestions in the RTW guides forum, and it might be helpful to browse a few....
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 02-04-2016 at 14:33.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    As stated earlier, you can ignore some Senate missions...just make sure you complete enough of them to keep from getting docked money



    The Julii were my least favorite Roman faction so I never played them much but a few things I learned... Once you capture Patavium and Mediolanium, there are three mountain passes where you can build forts that essentially stop them cold. The first is to the west of Mediolanium and it forces a river crossing to boot...easy to defend. This will force the AI to try the pass just to the NW of Mediolanium where you can build a fort. More difficult defense than the first, but still to your advantage. The third is to the NE of Patavium. Another narrow pass where you can build a fort if needs be. You can defend all three without a fort if you wish. In every case (and this isn't always the case when defending mountain passes...discussion for another time) you will have a decided terrain advantage and should crush any attempt by the Gauls to retake. These are the only three ways a Gallic army can reach those cities other than a looong circuitous route through Dacian territory. This will buy time to consolidate before beginning your "Caesar in Gaul" campaign. Or maybe you'll want to head off to Greece for richer lands and just hold the Gauls at bay There are plenty of Julii campaign suggestions in the RTW guides forum, and it might be helpful to browse a few....

    Many thanks, appreciate the tips. :)

  12. #12
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    My suggestion would be to completely disregard the Senate now and always (they are impotent old women) and see to your imperial ambitions. They never moved a finger against me, I think they do it only on very high difficulty. You should totally do what RS suggested, that is quickly take the alpine territories from the Gauls and put forts at all choke points. The AI loathes to take forts, and if they do commit to an attack it still earns you some extra turns to set up proper defenses.

    Gaul is pretty poor in the vanilla game. If you did the above quickly enough, you have time to conquer Sardinia and the western side of Sicily. This will halt the Scipii expansion westward and open your way to conquer the African coast which is very rich. Holding that coast, the isles of the western sea and Spain will earn you a lot (read ton) of money, and at that point you can begin an invasion of Gaul from West, South and East that will obliterate the uncivilized barbarians.

    @Yesugey

    I had to manually play the battle and swamp the general with my army from all sides. He roasted the infantry, routed most of the horse archers, but the last horse units together with my own generals finally managed to nail them. I'm pretty sure Sassanid Immortals have only 2 hit points like all other generals, but with a defense of whooping 30 they are untouchable.

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    Member Member Yesugey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    Quote Originally Posted by wooly_mammoth View Post

    I had to manually play the battle and swamp the general with my army from all sides. He roasted the infantry, routed most of the horse archers, but the last horse units together with my own generals finally managed to nail them. I'm pretty sure Sassanid Immortals have only 2 hit points like all other generals, but with a defense of whooping 30 they are untouchable.
    I am %100 sure I saw it before, but it's also possible that they patched it later. I think that might depend on the unit size too, but I always play on huge. I will check it today, if possible.

    For example, in M2TW Mongols sometimes get larger amount of Bodyguard units with 1 hit point, sometimes 2 with normal size. It's a bug, I am not sure it's patched properly yet.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reducing this town's cost(??)

    My suggestion would be to completely disregard the Senate now and always (they are impotent old women) and see to your imperial ambitions. They never moved a finger against me, I think they do it only on very high difficulty
    Entirely possible that Senate punitive actions are game difficulty rated. I've only had them nail me once...in a Brutii campaign. By that time I was playing VH/H so who knows They docked me 250,000 denarii but seeing as how my treasury was in the millions of denarii....phffft Civil war came soon after that and I had my best army and general parked not far off-shore from Rome beforehand. Needless to say, every one of those toga-scum were put to the sword

    The AI loathes to take forts, and if they do commit to an attack it still earns you some extra turns to set up proper defenses.
    What's really fun about forts is that when you have the capability, you park 4 onagers and a ton of archers inside the fort (with the forts wooden palisades, both can shoot over the walls). Have a supporting army that can participate when an assault happens, and enjoy the slaughter
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 02-04-2016 at 19:33.
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