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Thread: SYRIA thread

  1. #61
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    "What is your reading of them?" Just what they say: "to take the initiative and fight and destroy the terrorists in the territory they have already captured rather than waiting for them to arrive on our soil." Fighting, not promise to destroy...

    "Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Monday that he has ordered Russian forces to begin withdrawing from Syria, saying they have achieved their goals in the country." As he said in the text you linked. So really a broken promise, is it?

    "Russian officials are anything but a source of reliable information. " My bad. I saw the newspaper was English... As we know, very in favour of Putin...
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  2. #62
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Another Putin's politic failure....
    http://indianexpress.com/article/wor...-town-palmyra/
    Indian media, so it is all right...
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  3. #63
    Member Member Yesugey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    Another Putin's politic failure....
    http://indianexpress.com/article/wor...-town-palmyra/
    Indian media, so it is all right...
    A guy believes Putin, but counts Erdogan as a dictator... Well that's how illogical politics is.

    In Turkey, we see Russia as "The Protestant version of Turkey." Same ignorance, same love for dictators...

    But you are right though: Putin is successful because he never intended to destroy Isis. He just helped his puppet Syrian Army, to recapture the cities they lost. Isis is a good thing to have there for Putin too.

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  4. #64
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    Just what they say: "to take the initiative and fight and destroy the terrorists in the territory they have already captured rather than waiting for them to arrive on our soil." Fighting, not promise to destroy...
    You again miss the bolded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Monday that he has ordered Russian forces to begin withdrawing from Syria, saying they have achieved their goals in the country." As he said in the text you linked. So really a broken promise, is it?
    He didn't withdraw. He didn't do what he had promised. Russian planes were instrumental in capturing Palmira which happened AFTER his announcement of withdrawal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yesugey View Post
    In Turkey, we see Russia as "The Protestant version of Turkey."
    Russians are Orthodox. You should know thy enemy.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    "in the territory they have already captured rather than waiting for them to arrive on our soil." You ignored what follows the bold. If I say I will never do unless and you ignore the unless, you miss the point. No?

    "He didn't withdraw. He didn't do what he had promised. Russian planes were instrumental in capturing Palmira which happened AFTER his announcement of withdrawal" Yeap. That is covered by the “will continue only while the Syrian army conducts its anti-terrorist offensive.

    A guy believes Putin, but counts Erdogan as a dictator... Well that's how illogical politics is.” So Palmyra is still in ISIL’s hands, so is Qaryatain? This nothing with believing or not, these are hard facts.
    And Erdogan is a fascist. The fact that Putin is not a nice guy is not a good reason to excuse Erdoganoli.

    But you are right though: Putin is successful because he never intended to destroy Isis. He just helped his puppet Syrian Army, to recapture the cities they lost. Isis is a good thing to have there for Putin too.” Yeap. Mind you it was (before Kurds savage babies eaters cut the roads) Turkey making business with ISIL…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6882281.html
    Carreful, the Independent is probably Putin's agent!!!!

    I give you Turkey was probably not the only one…

    ISIL was a creature of Saudis and Qatar, turned really bad, so became a good reason for Putin to come back as a "goody" after Crimea, and the Turkey's mistake made a crack in NATO, which Putin as usual was prompted to exploit. The Syrian Army, puppet if you want but is defeating forces which before Russian's intervention seemed unstoppable and are now if not on the run, seriously shaken.
    Last edited by Brenus; 04-05-2016 at 21:05.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  6. #66
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "in the territory they have already captured rather than waiting for them to arrive on our soil." You ignored what follows the bold. If I say I will never do unless and you ignore the unless, you miss the point. No?
    Are terrorists destroyed on "the territory they have already captured"? So either only the bolded or together with the unbolded the promise was not carried out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "He didn't withdraw. He didn't do what he had promised. Russian planes were instrumental in capturing Palmira which happened AFTER his announcement of withdrawal" Yeap. That is covered by the “will continue only while the Syrian army conducts its anti-terrorist offensive.
    Why then announce withdrawal?

  7. #67
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    "Why then announce withdrawal?" Tactic, leaving a door open in case of need, if campaign goes horribly wrong...

    "Are terrorists destroyed on "the territory they have already captured"? So either only the bolded or together with the unbolded the promise was not carried out."Not yet, could be the answer, but as there is no time frame, it could be a work in progress:"only while the Syrian army conducts its anti-terrorist offensive". So, Syrian army still conduct bla bla, so support still carry on...
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  8. #68
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post

    The Syrian Army, puppet if you want but is defeating forces which before Russian's intervention seemed unstoppable and are now if not on the run, seriously shaken.
    The seriously shaken ones are on the offensive:
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...se-isis-attack

  9. #69
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    The seriously shaken ones are on the offensive:
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...se-isis-attack
    Against not the SAA, but the opposition, which has also lately been squeezed by the army. It didn't help that the Kurds coordinated their attacks against them with daesh's offensive.

  10. #70
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    Against not the SAA, but the opposition, which has also lately been squeezed by the army. It didn't help that the Kurds coordinated their attacks against them with daesh's offensive.
    An offensive is still an offensive, and it shows that ISIS still has some aces up the sleeve. So its collapse is only a wishful thinking. At least for the time being.

    And here we go again:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reu...overnment.html
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 04-18-2016 at 11:15.

  11. #71
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Sorry IS - we have the technology, we can rebuild it (apparently).

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36070721
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  12. #72
    Intelligent Idiot Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    The YPG and the regime started fighting in Qamishlo yesterday. Hopefully this is just a momentary flare up and the regime won't start bombing Kurdish areas.

    Syrian Civil War subreddit megathread with updates, pictures, etc.

  13. #73
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuuvi View Post
    The YPG and the regime started fighting in Qamishlo yesterday. Hopefully this is just a momentary flare up and the regime won't start bombing Kurdish areas.

    Syrian Civil War subreddit megathread with updates, pictures, etc.
    The fighting was between the Kurds and pro-regime Arab tribes and Assyrians, who are uncomfortable with Kurdish nationalism. Doubt it's going to deteriorate further, both of them need each other.

  14. #74
    Intelligent Idiot Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    You are right, a truce was declared today. However why do you think they need each other? They can't afford to fight each other right now but in the long term their interests are opposed; the PYD wants autonomy and/or a federal system for Syria, but Assad doesn't seem willing to give that to them.

  15. #75
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuuvi View Post
    You are right, a truce was declared today. However why do you think they need each other? They can't afford to fight each other right now but in the long term their interests are opposed; the PYD wants autonomy and/or a federal system for Syria, but Assad doesn't seem willing to give that to them.
    No disagreement here. I was talking about the short-term conditions, that they currently both need to focus on the islamofascist rebels and avoid such unfortunate incidents.

    Speaking of islamofascists, let's take a look at the moderate guys of FSA.

    Toddlers wanting to become mujahideens and eradicate the infidels from Syria. The real damage of the civil war is not the destruction of the infrastructure, but the poisoning of innocent minds, of the younger generation's soul. Congrats Qatar, Erdo and SA, you ruined Syria for good.
    Last edited by Crandar; 04-24-2016 at 14:30.

  16. #76
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    this supports and the people from

  17. #77
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Exporting terrorists: the Russia style:
    http://www.reuters.com/investigates/...sia-militants/

  18. #78

    Default Re: Syria

    Hardly exporting the same could be said with all european countries letting them go and fight in syria. Some Chechens and dagestanis have been great informants for Russia in the fight against Islamic State and other Jihadist groups Ramzan let this out

  19. #79
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Russia uses cluster bombs in Syria:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36578281

  20. #80

    Default Re: Syria

    Well China, Russia, the United States, India, Israel, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Brazil haven't signed up to the Cluster bomb ban treaty. It seems the American Warmongers are beating their drums to depose Assad again.

    Anyway the RBK-500 detonation is different to the conventional cluster bomb as they act as parachute rockets they are generally anti vehicle and dont tend to litter like conventional cluster bombs do as seen in Yemen, Iraq and Afghanistan. The only RBK 500 variant that has been documented in syria is the RBK-500-SPBE-D which are designed for taking out multiple Tanks and APC's it is parachuted in and then a 300mm rocket is launched penetrating the weakest part of a Tanks armour the top. And many of these RBK 250's are actually thermite and not really conventional cluster bombs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehFPmRaWOsw
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrViSg60U9E
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=ECHqRL_nKQ0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jrl6cto2Ds

    And quite a while ago it was documented that RBK-250 incendiary munitions however there were conflicting reports these were actually OFAB-250-270 instead which aren't cluster munitions. Here is some thermobaric

    Who cares in the end war is war and sympathy for the welfare of US armed terrorists is unwaranted and a disgrace in my view.

    If I was you i would be more worried about Obama and King Saud giving AA launchers to the rebels as you know just like the TOW launchers they will get in the hands of ISIS and then Civil Aviation will be threatened.
    Last edited by Lizardo; 06-21-2016 at 17:36.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Syria

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzuPA5_E6FI China may enter Syrian conflict i think its hot air.

  22. #82
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Turkey starts a ground operation in Syria:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/24/mi...ria-operation/

  23. #83
    Intelligent Idiot Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    This move is about preventing the Kurds from uniting the cantons as much as it is about fighting ISIS and as a YPG supporter I'm pretty disappointed by this development. It was also pretty shitty for the US to tell the YPG to withdraw from Manbij after they spent so many lives and effort liberating it. I hope Rojava will be able to survive the Turkish onslaught.

  24. #84
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuuvi View Post
    This move is about preventing the Kurds from uniting the cantons as much as it is about fighting ISIS and as a YPG supporter I'm pretty disappointed by this development. It was also pretty shitty for the US to tell the YPG to withdraw from Manbij after they spent so many lives and effort liberating it. I hope Rojava will be able to survive the Turkish onslaught.
    I understand your perspective, Tuuvi, but the USA has been consistent in its assurances to Turkey that it will not abet the development of an independent Kurdistan (which de facto that territory might have begun to create). Mind you, given the glowing support of Turkey for NATO under Erdogan especially, and the wonderful degree of success enjoyed by the post-invasion secular government in Iraq, I am not at all sure that our efforts to ensure the lack of an independent Kurdistan have been the right choice at all.

    EDIT

    And yes, I am using 'glowing' and 'wonderful' in sarcasm mode.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 08-29-2016 at 18:36.
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  25. #85
    Intelligent Idiot Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    I'm well aware that the US was always going to side with a NATO ally over a ragtag Kurdish militia and the only reason the US was working with the YPG was because they were the only ones who were in a position to ISIS effectively. It just bothers me that the US supported the fight for Manbij with airstrikes and then told the YPG to withdraw from the city in order to appease Turkey. I think this was a very cynical move on the US' part.

    Turkey said that the YPG crossing the Euphrates was a "red line". USA probably knew there was going to be consequences for the Kurds but they helped them cross the Euphrates anyway. They used Kurdish lives to fight ISIS without a care in the world for what would happen to them afterwards.
    Last edited by Tuuvi; 08-30-2016 at 05:53.

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  26. #86
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuuvi View Post
    I'm well aware that the US was always going to side with a NATO ally over a ragtag Kurdish militia and the only reason the US was working with the YPG was because they were the only ones who were in a position to ISIS effectively. It just bothers me that the US supported the fight for Manbij with airstrikes and then told the YPG to withdraw from the city in order to appease Turkey. I think this was a very cynical move on the US' part.

    Turkey said that the YPG crossing the Euphrates was a "red line". USA probably knew there was going to be consequences for the Kurds but they helped them cross the Euphrates anyway. They used Kurdish lives to fight ISIS without a care in the world for what would happen to them afterwards.
    Not quite so unfeelingly as that. Most of our military who have worked with the Kurds regard them pretty highly and respect them more than most of that region's locals. Crappy realpolitik behavior by us, I concur, but do not think it happened without any number of regrets and frustrations.
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  27. #87
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Just about everyone I know that's worked with the Kurds thinks highly of them. They do have their own problems, especially in their connections to the various Kurdish terrorists in Turkey. That however is why they are effective, they know how to and want to fight, they don't profit from the status quo and are willing to shed blood to achieve it. If only they didn't have Kurdish terrorists commiting attacks in Turkey to go and make them such irritant to our 'allies' in Turkey and Iraq.

    If only Turkey wasn't such a necessary evil for NATO. Their strategic positions makes them absolutely indispensable which is why we've always had to put up with their spats with Greece, meddling in Cyprus, previous border skirmishes with Syria, their hesitation in letting us use Incirlik airbase in '91 and then again the northern attack route in 2003. While all of the anti-ISIS coalition helped the Kurds in Kobane the Turks closed the border to prevent any help to the Kurds. They won't even let German politicians visit their Bundeswehr contingent at Incirlik due to political disputes.
    Despite all that and more we cannot do without Turkey. If they joined the Russian sphere or created a new Islamist sphere NATO would be tremendously hampered in effecting any sort of policy in the middle east, black sea, Caucasus and so on.

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  28. #88
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by spmetla View Post
    NATO would be tremendously hampered in effecting any sort of policy in the middle east, black sea, Caucasus and so on.
    And why is that so important again? The reason we fight ISIS now is that NATO "effected" its policies in that region in the first place...


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  29. #89
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    And why is that so important again? The reason we fight ISIS now is that NATO "effected" its policies in that region in the first place...
    There are threats beyond ISIS (Russia, Iran, other Islamists that pre-date 2003 invasion) and having a foothold that influences the crossroads of Europe, Asia, and Africa by land and sea is very important.
    The current debacle in the Iraq and Syria is more the US and UKs fault than NATO, otherwise we'd have seen German and French forces in some way helping out.

    What would you prefer? Turkey out of NATO and Erdogan trying to fulfill the destabilizing role that Nasser's Egypt/Syria had in the 50s and 60s but this time as neo-ottomanism? I'd rather we work with the Turks and all their problems while continuing to try to liberalize their government and society so that it doesn't revert to its pre-Ataturk self.
    Last edited by spmetla; 08-31-2016 at 01:14.

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  30. #90
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    While Assad and Russia were busy with Aleppo:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ian-airstrikes
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 12-11-2016 at 15:44.

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