Brexit Thread

[InsaneApache]

So, ridiculing her for not knowing what referendum means is fine.
By the way, ignorance like that is not limited to the working class.

I quite agree.

However the only qualification to vote is to live until you're 18 years old.

Still a nice result for all those fruitcake loon racists dontcha think!

[Beskar]

Shame on the old people for hijacking the future of the educated youth!

Well she voted like seniority, but you get the picture.

I am confused to what point you are trying to make.

[Lizardo]

Read this Article: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...p-immigration/

[Greyblades]

It is entirely natural to become agitated after a dissapointment of this magnitude, if they are still this bad in a week or two then it's getting into overreaction territory.

[Pannonian]

I wonder what you think of Farage's statement that the victory was won "without a single bullet being fired".

[Husar]

I wonder what you think of Farage's statement that the victory was won "without a single bullet being fired".

What about the bullet fired at Mrs. Cox?

[Greyblades]

I wonder what you think of Farage's statement that the victory was won "without a single bullet being fired".

...I dont know, maybe he doesnt count the bullet when it being fired contriubted nothing to the victory?

[InsaneApache]

You lot have forgotten the virtue of democracy,

Government changes without a violent revolution.

We have nice and quiet and peaceful revolution every five years or so.

It's the British way.

[Pannonian]

Guarantees wanted over the future of European millions

COUNCIL leaders in Yorkshire are expected to move quickly to seek assurances from the Government in key areas in the wake of the Brexit vote.

A major priority will be to secure guarantees over the £600m of EU funding the region is due to receive to help grow Yorkshire’s economy between now and 2020.

The money became a significant issue in the campaign as concerns were expressed about the possible impact of Brexit on areas like Yorkshire, which have historically been major recipients of EU cash.

In a key moment of the campaign, Vote Leave pledged that in the event of an out vote, money saved from Britain’s EU ‘membership fee’ would be used to fill the gap.

However, with Vote Leave being a cross-party campaign organisation rather than the Government, it is not clear what weight that guarantee will carry.

Council leaders in the region are also expected to press the case for accelerated moves towards handing more powers into local control.

They are likely to seek reassurances that leaving the EU will not be a cover for concentrating decision-making in London.

Concern has already been expressed that the prospect of David Cameron’s departure from Downing St could put current devolution discussions in doubt.

Ed Cox, director of the IPPR North thinktank, said: “The people have spoken, but in the North they have shouted. The signs of malaise with the Westminster elite have been there for some time.

“Whatever you believe about the Northern Powerhouse, few can deny that our trading relationships with our (soon to be former) EU partners matter much more to northern businesses than they do to the City of London.

“We need to define the kind of economy we want to become. Our obsession with the big cities and aggregate growth must take a new turn and wake up to the cries of those on the margins who are busy manufacturing the goods we will now struggle harder to sell overseas.”

He added: “Politically, we should let devolution rip. Both major political parties must reinvent themselves from the bottom up with more plural local political systems that bring people closer to power.”

Devolution should press on, with Yorkshire and the north east getting its own government. And that government should tax and fund its own business themselves, without drawing on London's money. Outside defence and foreign affairs, every region should raise its own taxes and fund its own government, without having any of it hived off to support other regions.

[Fragony]

I don't know how far google-translate handles this but it is a pretty good musing of Geenstijl http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven...thof.html#more

[Pannonian]

View from Wales: town showered with EU cash votes to leave EU

“What’s the EU ever done for us?” Zak Kelly, 21, asks me this standing next to a brand new complex of buildings and facilities that wouldn’t look out of place in Canary Wharf. It’s not Canary Wharf, though, it’s Ebbw Vale, a former steel town of 18,000 people in the heart of the Welsh valleys, where 62% of the population – the highest proportion in Wales – voted Leave.

To go there – along a new dual carriageway – and stand next to the town’s new sixth form and training college, a glass and steel architectural showpiece next to its new leisure centre, a few hundred yards away from a new train station, is to stare into the abyss of the UK’s failed Remain campaign.

Even Kelly, who has just finished a training session on a brand new football pitch, backtracks slightly after asking that question. “Well, I know … they built all this,” he says, and motions his head at the impressive facilities that are all around us. “But we put in more money than we get out, don’t we?”

...

Her customers, however, thought differently. “There was only one word people had on their mind: immigration. They didn’t look at the facts at all.”

Are there any immigrants in Ebbw Vale? “No! Hardly any. And the ones there are are all working, all contributing. It’s just … illogical. I just don’t think people looked at the facts at all.”

It’s a town with almost no immigrants that voted to get the immigrants out. A town that has been showered with EU cash that no longer wants to be part of the EU.

...

Wales isn’t just a net EU beneficiary, EU capital funding has been an essential part of attracting firms to come here. All around town are signs marked with the EU flag for the Ebbw Vale enterprise zone. The website notes that as an EU tier 1 area, “companies can benefit from the highest level of grant aid in the UK”. Earlier this year the sports car company TVR announced it would build a factory and create 150 jobs there. Will it still come? Will the Circuit of Wales, a multimillion-pound motor racing circuit a private company has been proposing to build on the town’s outskirts creating 6,000 jobs? Will the £1.8bn of EU cash promised to Wales for projects until 2020 still arrive? And what happens after? Will central government really give more money to Ebbw Vale than the EU has?

Even Kelly looks like he could be doubtful on this point. “David Cameron got a good kicking,” he says. So, what about Boris Johnson? Do you want him? “No way. He’s London through and through. He’ll just forget about Wales.”

Or as Michael Sheen, the Welsh-born actor from Port Talbot, tweeted: “Wales votes to trust a new and more rightwing Tory leadership to invest as much money into its poorer areas as EU has been doing.”

“It is what it is,” says Kelly. “We’ll see, won’t we?”

“But we put in more money than we get out, don’t we?” Something that can be said for London regarding the UK as a whole. If Wales feels aggrieved that the UK does not get back as much as it contributes, likewise with London and the UK. Rather than the UK putting in however much money and part of that being granted back to Wales, let Wales raise all its funding by itself. London money for Londoners only.

[Greyblades]

The money the EU gave to the various areas of the country was £4.5 billion, the money our government gave to the EU was 13 Billion, the UK can take that 13 billion they no longer have to pay, use it to cover the needs of the nations who relied on the EU and still have 8 billion left over to do whatever we want with.

Will the government do that? That depends on your vote next election, you, me and every voting man and woman must vote in the politicians who we think can get it done, and considering the two main parties are set to break up we can now afford to vote for third parties, the big two can go straight to hell.

It's too late to change the direction but we can make this direction work.

[Gilrandir]

It looks like it's not done yet. Scotland wants to veto Brexit:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...itics-36633244

[Greyblades]

I hope to god the Scots are seeing this, thier independance leader wants to overrule a populations decision to leave a union.

[Pannonian]

The money the EU gave to the various areas of the country was £4.5 billion, the money our government gave to the EU was 13 Billion, the UK can take that 13 billion they no longer have to pay, use it to cover the needs of the nations who relied on the EU and still have 8 billion left over to do whatever we want with.

Will the government do that? That depends on your vote next election, you, me and every voting man and woman must vote in the politicians who we think can get it done, and considering the two main parties are set to break up we can now afford to vote for third parties, the big two can go straight to hell.

It's too late to change the direction but we can make this direction work.

A disproportionate amount of the numbers the UK gave was from London. Why should London hand out money to the regions to subsidise them? If we no longer have to fund these failing areas, we can concentrate investing on infrastructure in the south east that directly or indirectly benefits us. Why should London tax money that can be spent on Kent be spent on Wales or Yorkshire or Cornwall? People commute into London from the neighbouring counties. That's all we need to spend on. If the regions want investment, they can pay for it themselves. Socialism is dead, as IA is fond of reminding us. The regions should stop skiving off London, and start pulling their socks up and deal with their own problems.

[Beskar]

Anyone notice how Boris Johnson and Michael Grove don't seem too happy with the result? It is as if they hijacked the EU leave campaign for popularity and expected to lose...oops!

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...iars?CMP=fb_gu

[Fragony]

Lib dems have promised if they get elected, they will block leaving the EU too.

Must be underestimating the disgust or outright hate. If there was ever a time to walk on eggs very carefully it's now

[Greyblades]

A disproportionate amount of the numbers the UK gave was from London. Why should London hand out money to the regions to subsidise them? If we no longer have to fund these failing areas, we can concentrate investing on infrastructure in the south east that directly or indirectly benefits us. Why should London tax money that can be spent on Kent be spent on Wales or Yorkshire or Cornwall? People commute into London from the neighbouring counties. That's all we need to spend on. If the regions want investment, they can pay for it themselves. Socialism is dead, as IA is fond of reminding us. The regions should stop skiving off London, and start pulling their socks up and deal with their own problems.

Because desipte your apparant wishes you are British and to be openly contemplating such selfishness agianst your fellow countrymen over a lost vote is a disgrace to such a degree that heightened emotions in the face of such dissapointment is becoming insufficent to excuse.

Lib dems have promised if they get elected, they will block leaving the EU too.

So like the SNP they betray their ideals for points.

Anyone notice how Boris Johnson and Michael Grove don't seem too happy with the result? It is as if they hijacked the EU leave campaign for popularity and expected to lose...oops!

"hijacked" They jumped on the bandwagon and at best acted to increase it's momentum, though likely more a detriment as they eagerly joined in on the war of lies. Either way a guardian opinion peice is not the place to get accurate insight on thier intentions.

[Lizardo]

I totally agree with Beskar, the elites and tories have been colluding Daniel Hannan, Boris Johnson, Douglas Carswell and some Labour leave have set up a cross party brexit team excluding Nigel Farage and UKIP, This takes the piss the fight is not over yet. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...p-immigration/

It was reported months ago Boris Johnson had prepared 2 Columns to write in the newspapers one for leave and one for remain. He decided to campaign for leave, due to it being better for his political career even if we did remain so BJ is a fraud. Corbyn is a fraud aswell he had campaigned for the earlier part of his political career against the EU but when he came to power in the labour party he changed his tune, Power corrupts

[Pannonian]

Because desipte your apparant wishes you are British and to be openly contemplating such selfishness agianst your fellow countrymen over a lost vote is a disgrace to such a degree that heightened emotions in the face of such dissapointment is becoming insufficent to excuse.

You said that we can make this direction work. It would be a lot easier for the south east to make this work if we don't have to pay for the regions because of their failings. Besides, as the Yorkshire piece makes clear, they're not too fond of London anyway, and want their own government away from the London-centrism of Westminster. Let them have their own government, and let them pay for it as well.

[Beskar]

So like the SNP they betray their ideals for points.

Here is the article: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/25/lib-de...ction-5966965/

[Greyblades]

...*sigh* fair enough, I retract my previous statment, if the Lib dems do indeed get a nationwide majority on this platform they will have the right to overrule the referendum, for the five years before the next election kicks them back to the curb.

You said that we can make this direction work. It would be a lot easier for the south east to make this work if we don't have to pay for the regions because of their failings. Besides, as the Yorkshire piece makes clear, they're not too fond of London anyway, and want their own government away from the London-centrism of Westminster. Let them have their own government, and let them pay for it as well.

Regional contempt and seperatism based not on legitimate grevences but a difference of opinion in a national debate, have you considered that they arent fond of you prercisely because of this attitude you are exhibiting?

[Pannonian]

...*sigh* fair enough, I retract my previous statment, if the Lib dems do indeed get a nationwide majority on this platform they will have the right to overrule the referendum, for the five years before the next election kicks them back to the curb.

Regional contempt and seperatism based not on legitimate grevences but a difference of opinion in a national debate, have you considered that they arent fond of you prercisely because of this attitude you are exhibiting?

And the feeling is reciprocated. But if the argument that money going out of London, via the EU, and into Wales and their like, is a bad thing, then it's still a bad thing when it goes out of London and directly into Wales. The new direction is to opt out of the socialist EU, as Britain is a fundamentally non-socialist country. So let's ditch all the socialist pretensions of looking after the poorer regions. More money going out than coming in is a bad thing, as your argument goes. Let's apply it to Britain. Let the regions balance their own books, without London bailing them out.

[Greyblades]

The argument is that the EU is a shit intermediary with an even greater anti democratic structure and agenda than our own parlaiment has and should be done away with.

The money going straight to wales and the like instead of through the EU gives the same effect, saves us the middleman fee of 8 billion pounds and means that the unelected middleman stops being able to tell us what we can and cannot do in our own country.

You're the one arguing against looking after the poor regions for the sake of saving money, not me.

[Pannonian]

The argument is that the EU is a shit intermediary with an even greater anti democratic structure and agenda than our own parlaiment has and should be done away with.

The money going straight to wales and the like instead of through the EU gives the same effect, saves us the middleman fee of 8 billion pounds and means that the unelected middleman stops being able to tell us what we can and cannot do in our own country.

You're the one arguing against looking after the poor regions for the sake of saving money, not me.

Never mind about the middleman. Let's cut out the redistribution bit altogether. Britain is not a socialist country. We're not in the business of making the poor richer. Let the regions pay their own way, with their own governments raising the money themselves then deciding what to do with the money they've raised from their own people. It would be a better reflection of what each region can get up to, without the nonsense of taking from the rich to give to the poor.

[Greyblades]

Is this leading up to a "yeah, now you see how shit your position is" point or are you actually going full Austrian school economics on us?

[Pannonian]

Either will do, as long as we no longer have to pay for these places that don't benefit us. I don't see why people in Yorkshire should be able to dictate to people in London what we can and can't do. The sooner regional governments are up and running the better, as long as their budgets are entirely funded from their own taxes. Central government to deal with country-wide issues only.

[Greyblades]

Then we will have to disagree.

I think right now we need to tend to our own and we are better off making decisions on our own. If you dont consider anyone outside london your own so be it, but we think of you as ours despite the grumbling and untill that changes we'd go to the hilt for you and expect you to do the same for us.

If you want to throw that good will away out of dissapointment over a single decision, that is your loss, but you will never be free of us as long as you stand on our soil.

[Fragony]

That, and buy a fancy English sportscar while this lasts, you have just about a year or something to do that very cheaply. Prediction is one bad year, recovery after that.

[Gilrandir]

If you want to throw that good will away out of dissapointment over a single decision, that is your loss, but you will never be free of us as long as you stand on our soil.

Some time soon it's gonna be several "our soils", I guess.