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Thread: Brexit Thread

  1. #1
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Brexit Thread

    OK, the last thread got locked so please behave kiddies.

    My take on it is this.

    Forget all the arguments about trade, immigration and all the rest.

    Do you want the ability to remove the politicians who make the laws?

    If you do, then you should vote to leave.

    If you couldn't give a monkeys chuff about the demos, then vote to stay.

    Last edited by Beskar; 06-25-2016 at 02:47.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  2. #2
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Who did you vote for in the last Euro election? Did you canvas for your MEP candidate?

  3. #3
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Who did you vote for in the last Euro election? Did you canvas for your MEP candidate?
    LOL
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  4. #4
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    You know as well as I do the MEPs are members of a toothless talking shop. The real power is the Commission.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  5. #5
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Help us Obiwan Kanobi, you are our only hope. A brexit is the only way we will ever get a nexit, and blow up the EU together.
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    this supports and the people from

  6. #6
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    You know as well as I do the MEPs are members of a toothless talking shop. The real power is the Commission.
    The real power is the UK Parliament, whose MPs we elect. Most European bodies are practically powerless unless we decide we want to implement whatever it is they're suggesting. There is a powerful movement in the EU that transcends national government, but it's to do with the euro and hence something that doesn't concern us. Nearly everything in the EU that overrides national government we've opted out of. There may well be a good argument within the eurozone for exiting a body that has powers that they can do nothing about, but the UK is free of nearly everything of that sort. For the UK, the EU is not much more than an EEC with some social additions that our national government wants anyway. A Nexit may make philosophical sense on those grounds. Not so much a Brexit.

    Even if we do exit the EU, we're not big enough to stand alone in global markets. So we're going to have to look elsewhere for a bloc that will support our interests. The closest alternative is the US. The problem with a US-UK economic bloc is that the US is even keener on what we see as the worst parts of globalisation than the EU is. The US, after all, is keen on an absolute free market, while the biggest use of EU money is propping up local economies. Exiting the EU because we don't like their bigger vista only sends us towards an even greater supporter of globalisation.

  7. #7
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Consider the Benelux (without Walliona) and Scandinavian countries, an absolute powerhouse. There are ways to get rid of the monster that is the EU, none of said countries need them.
    Last edited by Fragony; 05-27-2016 at 11:22.
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  8. #8
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Consider the Benelux (without Walliona) and Scandinavian countries, an absolute powerhouse. There are ways to get rid of the monster that is the EU, none of said countries need them.
    Create that bloc and we'll join you. Don't expect us to make the first steps.

  9. #9
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    I don't even get to vote on it!


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  10. #10
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The real power is the UK Parliament, whose MPs we elect. Most European bodies are practically powerless unless we decide we want to implement whatever it is they're suggesting. There is a powerful movement in the EU that transcends national government, but it's to do with the euro and hence something that doesn't concern us. Nearly everything in the EU that overrides national government we've opted out of. There may well be a good argument within the eurozone for exiting a body that has powers that they can do nothing about, but the UK is free of nearly everything of that sort. For the UK, the EU is not much more than an EEC with some social additions that our national government wants anyway. A Nexit may make philosophical sense on those grounds. Not so much a Brexit.

    Even if we do exit the EU, we're not big enough to stand alone in global markets. So we're going to have to look elsewhere for a bloc that will support our interests. The closest alternative is the US. The problem with a US-UK economic bloc is that the US is even keener on what we see as the worst parts of globalisation than the EU is. The US, after all, is keen on an absolute free market, while the biggest use of EU money is propping up local economies. Exiting the EU because we don't like their bigger vista only sends us towards an even greater supporter of globalisation.
    With all due respect, that's just wrong.

    The Lisbon treaty changed all that.

    As for being too small to exist outside of the EU, ludicrous.

    If you value wealth over liberty and freedom, then you deserve to get everything you asked for. Good and hard.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  11. #11
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    If you value wealth over liberty and freedom, then you deserve to get everything you asked for. Good and hard.
    You mean like London with all the CCTV and financial industry?


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  12. #12
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Create that bloc and we'll join you. Don't expect us to make the first steps.
    We are hoping you, our referendums aren't binding, only Wilders wants binding referendums and nobody wants to work with him. A brexit would be a great leap, and yes the first step. The dutch were against the EU constitution, they did it anyway. The Dutch were against the treaty with Ukraine, they did it anyway. When our economy grows the EU demands more money, they even take in account illegal money that was made in prostitution and drugs. The EU is just as much dispised here as it is in the UK.
    Last edited by Fragony; 05-27-2016 at 15:58.
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  13. #13
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Meanwhile http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu...ters-3j3kg3zwj UK get us out pf this, again

    please use that referendum to break the back of the EU before it becomes it's true form
    Last edited by Fragony; 05-27-2016 at 18:25.
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  14. #14
    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Brexit, in all honesty, is a turning point in UK politics. Doesn't matter whether you agree with the EU or not, or what your option is, a serious change will happen in the UK after this referendum regardless of the outcome of the vote. And it will affect every inch and corner of all industries because of all of the trade agreements, exports and legal issues that bind the UK to the EU.

    23rd of June - let's see what happens.
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  15. #15
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Beggars aren't choosers, it isn't going to hurt the UK at all. Everything will remain the same. It only hurts eurocrats.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Yes it will.

    On every count you can imagine, regardless if the vote is negative or positive. Economically, socially, legally, anything you can think of. The UK has integrated within the EU since the European Coal and Steel Community in the 1960's and 1970's, and bringing the UK out of legal treaties that have worked for the past 40 years is not exactly the easiest thing.
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  17. #17
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    Yes it will.

    On every count you can imagine, regardless if the vote is negative or positive. Economically, socially, legally, anything you can think of. The UK has integrated within the EU since the European Coal and Steel Community in the 1960's and 1970's, and bringing the UK out of legal treaties that have worked for the past 40 years is not exactly the easiest thing.
    Yes it is really that simple, all these treaties were already in effect during the EEG, a brexit is only a problem for the EU who loses one of it's most important payers, and eurocrats who become even more ideologically bankrupt.
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    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    The only problem here is that those treaties will no longer fully apply as they do now - the EU won't give the same concessions and trade rights to the UK after it leaves the EU, if it does.

    So after a (hypothetical) Brexit, the UK and the EU economies stand to lose. And lose quite a lot.
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  19. #19
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    The only problem here is that those treaties will no longer fully apply as they do now - the EU won't give the same concessions and trade rights to the UK after it leaves the EU, if it does.

    So after a (hypothetical) Brexit, the UK and the EU economies stand to lose. And lose quite a lot.
    Those rights already existed, the UK has nothing to worry about. Like in the Netherlands for the UK the EU is just a very expensive overhead with very little use.
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  20. #20
    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    UK stands to lose a lot in the economy sector, the EU's common market greatly helped the EU economy and the local producers. Restricting at least the ease of access for goods is not exactly the best of situations for either party, and economics is not the only part where changes will be expected, regardless of the vote.

    But let's see how it goes first of all - 23rd of June should be a rather important day in the UK.
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  21. #21
    Ask Hooahguy (Not Here) Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Europe Union suffers from a duality. It is an organisation of Eueopean Countries on one hand, but there are times where it is a superstate-lite. The commissars that people like to moan about are appointed by each country to represent their interests, and it is these individual countries which attempt to game the system for their benefit. An example of this from the UK is Margret Thatcher and recently David Cameron, who wanted to change the EU to benefit the UK interest more. The issue is, these arguments from Tony Benn and the left euroseptics is mostly that these systems which provide forums for national interest are corrupt and undemocratic. As such, they require a reform of the EU to actually go follow a mandate of its people like a true state.

    The issue is, right wing euroseptics whilst they might use some of these arguments from the left, are in no way wanting the solution to the democratic deficient because they are only wanting things to their own national benefit, thus the current system is actually a creation from the right to ensure they can have national country interests instead of bowing to the interests of the European people.

    it is the funny things like that which are used as ammunition in this campaign by some people...they use arguments against the EU but the actual solution is the opposite of what they believe and oppose that too, in a oxymoronic position where the solution is to froth at the mouth on issues the EU is not responsible for, yelling leave, because they read it in the Daily Mail (cue ECHR). Funnily enough, Daily Mail is a source of that influence and corruption from private interest that Mr Benn was on about.
    Last edited by Beskar; 05-31-2016 at 14:51.
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  22. #22
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    I feel it is a wasted effort to be complaining that the right doesnt have the same goals as the left. It being perfectly willing to use thier arguments when it suits them is but par for the course.

    The left may wish to fix the EU corruption but the right does not want it to be in the position to be corrupt in the first place. The Eu should be a tool of nations not the other way around.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 05-31-2016 at 14:50.
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  23. #23
    Ask Hooahguy (Not Here) Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    The Eu should be a tool of nations not the other way around.
    Both ways around are wrong. Europe be for the European people. Having it any other way IS the corruption.
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
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  24. #24
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Europe and the EU arent the same thing. No matter how much Brussles wails otherwise the EU is a tool.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 05-31-2016 at 15:17.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
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  25. #25
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Go Pat Condol http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven...rits.html#more

    'Brexit' is worth watching as well
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    this supports and the people from

  26. #26
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  27. #27
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    I want his shirt I want to go to Ibiza in two weeks. But he's right. Dear UK get us out of their clutches. I don't want to live in an ultra-undemocratic lobby-paradise even if I would never notice I do in fact do.
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    this supports and the people from

  28. #28
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  29. #29
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    That is staged, Soraya is not a Turkish name. Nice cockney accent.
    Last edited by Fragony; 06-03-2016 at 11:57.
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    this supports and the people from

  30. #30
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: One more try - UK referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    That is staged, Soraya is not a Turkish name. Nice cockney accent.
    She's not Turkish.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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