Military coup in Turkey

[Fragony]

There are no sources, it's how I would do it if I was a machivallian eurocrat. People are reluctant to act against their own

[Husar]

There are no sources, it's how I would do it if I was a machivallian eurocrat.

Sentence that refers to what I said.

People are reluctant to act against their own

Random sentence that is completely unrelated at first sight.

Attempting request for further information in Fragoninglish: Qué?

Are you suggesting they want an EU army to start a military dictatorship? Do you not know that we already have foreign overlords?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016...n_9297112.html

David Icke Backs ‘Brexit’

http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/...-an-inside-job

David Icke insists Royal Family are ‘shape-shifting lizards’

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-investigation

Europe to crack down on wildlife smugglers to protect rare lizard species

Oooooh, I get it now...

[Fragony]

I think eurocrats will do anything to keep the EU alive yes, including turning on European citizens the hard way. Most convenient in case of riots would be soldiers that have no emotional ties with the country they are stationed. I think that's also the reason why they want to spread possible jihadi's all over Europe, more EU needed, needs more power.

[Gilrandir]

Secondly, I would think because NATO is not always taken so seriously and there are fears that some countries may ignore a call to arms by NATO.

So the EU is taken seriously?

For example, are all NATO soldiers required to speak a common language or could there be cases where one doesn't understand what the superior wants from him over the radio?

Superiors must speak more languages than the file and rank, so getting an order from a NATO commander in English a colonel from Poland will address his soldiers in Polish.

A lot of people say that NATO is just a bunch of countries waiting for the US to come and rescue them, the EU army would seem like an effort of Europe to take its defense into its own hands.

... which will put double stress on the national budgets since they will have to allot money both for NATO and the EU army.

[Fragony]

Kinda odd, they could have shot down Erdogan's plane but didn't. It was right in their sights
@hussie, can't compliment you enough on your English language skills, I am really poor at six

[Gilrandir]

And they missed a dozen ships:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tu...coup-nj8vj8xjz

[Husar]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/18/eu...oup/index.html

"The people now have the idea, after so many terrorist incidents, that these terrorists should be killed, that's where they are, they don't see any other outcome to it," he said.
"Why should I keep them and feed them in prisons, for years to come? That's what the people say," he said. "They want a swift end to it, because people lost relatives, lost neighbors, lost children ... they're suffering, so the people are very sensitive and we have to act very sensibly and sensitively."
The comments come in the wake of the President's vow over the weekend that those responsible "will pay a heavy price for this act of treason."
A total of 8,777 officers from the Turkish Ministry of Interior have so far been removed from office, according to the state-run Anadolu news agency.

Given that he calls journalists who are critical of him terrorists as well, there's nothing that could go wrong...

The "good thing" about it is this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tu...-idUSKCN0ZY0YI

Turkey cannot join the European Union if it reinstates the death penalty, German Chancellor Angela Merkel told Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan in a telephone call on Monday, a German spokeswoman said.

Turkey abolished capital punishment in 2004, allowing it to open EU accession talks the following year, but the negotiations have made scant progress since then.

he doesn't seem to care much at this point however, wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't really want to join anymore and would rather become a strong Sultan of a strong Turkey.

[Fragony]

It's all kinda bewildering, the EU keeps talking with him despite human-rights violations. But he isn't stupid he will detract his fart on death penalty seemingly giving eurocrats what they can present as having any cojones, and talks about visum free travel will continue, the nightmare of every modern-minded Euro-Turk.

[Husar]

It's all kinda bewildering, the EU keeps talking with him despite human-rights violations. But he isn't stupid he will detract his fart on death penalty seemingly giving eurocrats what they can present as having any cojones, and talks about visum free travel will continue, the nightmare of every modern-minded Euro-Turk.

I assume that they keep talking with him hoping that he will come around and try to join, with all the human rights changes that entails. And of course because that was part of the refugeee deal...

[Fragony]

I assume that they keep talking with him hoping that he will come around and try to join, with all the human rights changes that entails. And of course because that was part of the refugeee deal...

They aren't exactly usefull there, nor needed, the Balkan route is as good as closed. I don't know why we are still on speaking terms

[Gilrandir]

Kinda odd, they could have shot down Erdogan's plane but didn't. It was right in their sights

The pilot of Erdogan's plane reportedly told them it was an ordinary passenger plane.

[Csargo]

https://www.rt.com/news/351995-wikil...key-documents/

WikiLeaks reported suffering a “sustained attack” after it announced the upcoming release of hundreds of thousands of documents relating to Turkish leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party (AKP) in the wake of a failed military coup.

Despite the attack, the famous whistleblowing site promised to “prevail & publish” the first batch of documents on Tuesday. Earlier WikiLeaks announced that the release of documents, which could expose the Turkish “political power structure”, will contain 300,000 emails and 500,000 documents.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So, they've come for the academics and (what's left of) the press.

Remind me, who's next on the road to dictatorship?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Reducing electoral power of the masses. This can be by having the legislature vote itself out of existence (adios Weimar Germany), but changing the rules of government so that any representative body is functionally powerless (U.S. state legislatures increasingly), or watering down the power of the vote so that only certain votes really count ("Tribal" and class voting in the Roman Repuiblic).

[Husar]

Looks like the "cleanup" continues.

[Hooahguy]

Interesting that they would purge so many of the education ministry. I suppose hes trying to purge the Gulen influences or something? Certainly a dark time for secularism in Turkey.

[Strike For The South]

And to think I saw some Turkish expats turning up their collective nose at the idea of a coup. I suppose it's easy to rest on your ideals thousands of miles away.

[Gilrandir]

Looks like the "cleanup" continues.

I was severely warned once not to refer to social networks posts. Has anything changed since then?

[Fragony]

Interesting that they would purge so many of the education ministry. I suppose hes trying to purge the Gulen influences or something? Certainly a dark time for secularism in Turkey.

Erdogan is determined to destroy Gülen, even blackmails America by surrounding an American base in Turkey. It's going to be interesting to see what the leaks prior to the coup got to show. Must be something there because Turkey completily shut wikileaks down.

[Papewaio]

So, they've come for the academics and (what's left of) the press.

Remind me, who's next on the road to dictatorship?

Lets see an officer purge, check
High level aids (probably because they saw how fast he high tailed it out of the country), check
Academics, check
Reporters, check

Leaves the clergy and oppositions parties to remove
And a special presidential/black/red/revolutionary guard to put in place

[I of the Storm]

You forgot the judges. That's a check also.

If he's taking a page from NSDAP, the unions (do they have unions in Turkey?) should be taken care of next.

Also, I'd be surprised if turkish domestic intelligence doesn't have a lot of "new exciting job opportunities" in the near future.

[Fragony]

All of that doesn't stop the EU from talking about joining though, they now condemn his plans for the death-penalty, which he will not introduce, no loss of face for the childless mutti, and Erdogan looks reasonable. Full steam ahead. Erdogan's has his hairy hand between Merkel's plumb legs. I wonder what's in the 300.000 leaked e-mails

[Husar]

I was severely warned once not to refer to social networks posts. Has anything changed since then?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

In case anyone missed what Fragony is talking about: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/0...204637732.html

[Gilrandir]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

My long-standing argument with Brenus on how reliable social network information. He said it isn't.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Not much of a surprise really -- treason never prospers (for if it does....).

If you rebel and you lose then you are neatly identified as "the problem" for the existing powers-that-be and removal is really the only logical choice. That is all that is happening so far. Now, depending on how long the pogrom continues and how power rules are re-written, THEN we shall see what we shall see.

[Greyblades]

Nothing like the tyranical retaliation towards a failed coup to make a military dictatorship seem like the right choice.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Nothing like the tyranical retaliation towards a failed coup to make a military dictatorship seem like the right choice.

Absolutely, and there are several historical examples we can point to [Mubarek, post Sadat; Sukarno/Suharto in 1965; etc.]. Yet this was not a faked coup staged for the purpose of allowing a political crackdown [Reichstag fire of 1933]. Erdogan is simply acting -- fairly logically really -- to remove opposition that has already gone outside the law to try to remove him from power.

Obviously, it could be used to further a dictatorship -- Islamic websites are praising the Islamic character of Erdogan's support and encouraging Turkey to reject Kemal Attaturk's "coup." So some support does exist for Erdogan to consolidate power and revamp the republic. We shall see what we shall see.

[Greyblades]

I dont think the coup was faked, but when the crackdown began on judges and the like who almost certainly had nothing to do with it, it became clear that erdogan's reaction was somewhat more than a measured response.

[Husar]

I dont think the coup was faked, but when the crackdown began on judges and the like who almost certainly had nothing to do with it, it became clear that erdogan's reaction was somewhat more than a measured response.

A valid point, given that the lists of people to be removed were apparently ready before the coup even started. I don't think you can do thorough background checks to find thousands of judges to remove within 24 hours after a coup. He must at least have had some "potentially unwanted people" watchlists of people he'd want removed in the long term. It reeks of surveillance state and secret government spying in peoples' lives, or would a democrat have such lists ready as well? For criminals maybe, but people who don't agree with their politics and are not exactly politically active/political opponents?

[drone]

We really need to get our nukes out of Incirlik.

Faked or not, he is taking full advantage of it. Turkey will have a new constitution soon, and he will be Padishah-for-life.