Military coup in Turkey

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Absolutely, and there are several historical examples we can point to [Mubarek, post Sadat; Sukarno/Suharto in 1965; etc.]. Yet this was not a faked coup staged for the purpose of allowing a political crackdown [Reichstag fire of 1933]. Erdogan is simply acting -- fairly logically really -- to remove opposition that has already gone outside the law to try to remove him from power.

Obviously, it could be used to further a dictatorship -- Islamic websites are praising the Islamic character of Erdogan's support and encouraging Turkey to reject Kemal Attaturk's "coup." So some support does exist for Erdogan to consolidate power and revamp the republic. We shall see what we shall see.

As others have said, we're well beyond a response to the coup at this point - the coup is now being used as a stalking horse to supress dissent.

A 3-Month State of Emergency has been declared: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36852080

Part of me think we should eject Turkey from NATO, then invade and just roll all the way through to Syria if this goes on.

The arrests of the coup plotters and participants makes sense, but at this point we have Police and a significant chunk of the military High Command (who did not rebel) being arrested and tried. Far more troubling than this though are the Civil Servants, Judges and Academics.

It's important to reflect on what sectors of Turkish society are being targeted here. Both the Educational and Military Establishment are traditionally Secularist whilst the judiciary has historically pushed back hard against Erdogan in favour of the Turkish Constitution. Removing these people isn't really about removing Gulenists - Gulen is a Muslim Cleric, Erdogan is now targeting Turkey's secular establishment.

Take a look at the lists: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36835340

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36824130

Some Turkish women reflect, it's split between those who support "Democracy" who are probably Sunni Muslims and others who belong to minorities and are worried about Turkey becoming Iraq.

The BBC had a striking photo of Ergogen's female supporters up at one point, to a woman they were wearing black Hijabs that concealed their hair completely.

What we saw last week was Brutus and Cassius making a last-ditch attempt to save the Republic by breaking its laws. Now watch as Octavian gathers power unto himself to "preserve" his beloved Republic.

[Greyblades]

There is an irony that it was the failure of the coup that caused Erdogan to start proving why a coup is necissary, right when the millitary has been defanged.

Part of me think we should eject Turkey from NATO, then invade and just roll all the way through to Syria if this goes on.

I tell that part of me to figure out the answer to "and then what?" and to get back to me. Still hasnt returned since just before I started an English Literature course.

What we saw last week was Brutus and Cassius making a last-ditch attempt to save the Republic by breaking its laws. Now watch as Octavian gathers power unto himself to "preserve" his beloved Republic.

Another comparison between present events and history, it's starting to feel like the old days again.

[Fragony]

As most had expected the neo-sultan declares a state of emergency. Basicly absolute power.

[Fragony]

Just as predictable, the aftermath in Turkey doesn't stop the EU from talking about visum-free travel and joining the EU. With a million soldiers that should of course be that the EU joins Turkey.

-No freedom of press *check*
-Political prosecution *check*
-Oppressing of religious and ethnic minorities *check*
-Rallying of Turks abroad to intimidate secular Turks *check*

and many more *check*'s

What made the EU oooooh so great again, I read a lot on why, can someone explain it to me I forgot, was something with values, peace & freedom I think

[Husar]

Just as predictable, the aftermath in Turkey doesn't stop the EU from talking about visum-free travel and joining the EU. With a million soldiers that should of course be that the EU joins Turkey.

-No freedom of press *check*
-Political prosecution *check*
-Oppressing of religious and ethnic minorities *check*
-Rallying of Turks abroad to intimidate secular Turks *check*

and many more *check*'s

What made the EU oooooh so great again, I read a lot on why, can someone explain it to me I forgot, was something with values, peace & freedom I think

You could start by explaining what you talk about, were there any talks between Turkey and the EU about visum-free travel since the coup happened? If so, why not provide a source? Has any progress been made in any of these talks? Have they come to a solution or mutual understanding yet? I haven't heard of anything of the sort, but you always have the superior secret sources noone else knows.

[Fragony]

Not so secret http://www.politico.eu/article/post-...ayyip-erdogan/

[Husar]

Not so secret http://www.politico.eu/article/post-...ayyip-erdogan/

Did you even read that?

Members of the European Parliament are also watching closely, with some threatening to veto the Commission’s approval of visa liberalization if the Turkish government breaches the rule of law and human rights after the failed coup.

Kati Piri, a Dutch member of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, said recent events make it “highly unlikely that the Commission will give its green light and send the file to the Parliament any time soon.”

Even in the Commission, there seems to be difference of opinion over Ankara’s ability to meet the requirements. Günther Oettinger, European commissioner for digital economy and society, told German media in an interview published Tuesday that there’ll be no visa-free travel for Turks this year.

“The biggest obstacle,” Piri said, is Ankara’s refusal to change anti-terrorism legislation, “which is also used to silence critics.”

It contradicts what you said more than it supports your statement...
Of course some talk about continuing with the negotiations, but that is often done in connection with the refugee deal and doesn't mean they will agree on anything soon either way.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that Erdogan uses this event as a means of establishing a quasi-dictatorial Islamic Republic, repeals the Attaturk "laws," and establishes an Islamic state with sharia law as a prime element of the legal code.

What then for NATO?

[Husar]

Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that Erdogan uses this event as a means of establishing a quasi-dictatorial Islamic Republic, repeals the Attaturk "laws," and establishes an Islamic state with sharia law as a prime element of the legal code.

What then for NATO?

NATO already equipped the Taliban to keep/get Russia out of somewhere, it would just be business as usual?

I assume other NATO allies could ignore Turkey and basically push it out. Might want to recover the nukes first though.

[Pannonian]

Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that Erdogan uses this event as a means of establishing a quasi-dictatorial Islamic Republic, repeals the Attaturk "laws," and establishes an Islamic state with sharia law as a prime element of the legal code.

What then for NATO?

Remove them from NATO. We don't need them any more as a base against the Russians. We are probably more closely aligned with the Russians than with the Muslim region anyway.

[Hooahguy]

Remove them from NATO. We don't need them any more as a base against the Russians. We are probably more closely aligned with the Russians than with the Muslim region anyway.

And lose NATO's ability to cut off the Black Sea and bottle in the Black Sea Fleet? Not a chance. Better to shut up and keep them in NATO and not drive them into the arms of the Russians. Besides, there are a number of NATO bases in Turkey and losing them would be a blow to the anti-ISIS campaign.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

And lose NATO's ability to cut off the Black Sea and bottle in the Black Sea Fleet? Not a chance. Better to shut up and keep them in NATO and not drive them into the arms of the Russians. Besides, there are a number of NATO bases in Turkey and losing them would be a blow to the anti-ISIS campaign.

Correct as to the campaign against the Islamic state. Having to fly from Greece/Italy increases costs of operation and makes for fewer "spur of the moment" options.

Black Sea Fleet is NOT a concern. If they ever sail v NATO they would be out of their league by an order of magnitude. THAT is the kind of thing the USN trains for every day.

[Hooahguy]

True, the US Navy is larger and better. Its also spread out over the world. By the time they actually arrived in force on scene the Black Sea fleet can do some serious damage. Why run that risk when you can keep them bottled up and wait?

[Fragony]

Did you even read that?



It contradicts what you said more than it supports your statement...
Of course some talk about continuing with the negotiations, but that is often done in connection with the refugee deal and doesn't mean they will agree on anything soon either way.

Talking about talking is talking. I am talking about the migrant deal anyways