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Thread: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

  1. #61
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    I'm only talking about a specific field huh, that Marx thought that capitalism would eventually lead to socialism in the western world, and people who wanted to bring democracy in the middle-east (lol@that) truly thought it would be inevitable that democracy would be the outcome (that went well) Both are a Marxist way of thinking, grabbing what's there and taking that to predict what comes next. So essentially looking back AND forward

  2. #62

    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    I am? Says where, your mind is playing tricks on you again
    That's funny, last time you tried that line you were shown to be lying about defending a neo nazi and having watched a video.
    Is your memory really that short? or is that just your standard response when you get stuck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    ^ right there
    Yet right after that post you agree that people answering te call of that conspiracy theory you defend resulted in violence.

    If you read the post by spmetla
    he nails it...."That's always the sticky issue with freedom of speech, the fine line between holding opinions and sedition/fomenting violence are very hard to define. Each group no matter whom (anarchists, marxists, facists, militant islamists, nationalists) believe violence as a natural progression and method to achieve their ends."

    I think your problem here on this issue is that you want to take a hard line clear cut black and white stance on a subject which simply cannot be made to fit to that approach.
    I think Husar first demonstrated it with his ...."So they just need to work on their rhetoric a little and then they're fine?"

    ....and you have been lost ever since, trying to still defend your initial viewpoint despite knowing it really makes no sense.

  3. #63
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    No I agreed that it could lead to the same thing, but just because it can doesn't mean we should limit the freedom of speech. We need a very rigid stand on where it becomes open hostality and most of all a call fall for hostility. All I ask for is that nobody harms eachother. I absolutily despise extreme right/left extremists and radical muslims I wouldn't give a shit if they get terminal bonecancern and the painkillers were delayed, but alas, say whatever you want what's it to me

    If you think I am nazi symthatiser, wouldn't it be a bit odd that I payed a fellow jewish member a free dinner at a (not so good but cool, and me being fucked by medicinesscrew thatstuff) restaurant. You just have the wrong idea of me.
    Last edited by Fragony; 09-04-2016 at 09:22.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    No I agreed that it could lead to the same thing, but just because it can doesn't mean we should limit the freedom of speech. We need a very rigid stand on where it becomes open hostality and most of all a call fall for hostility.
    .
    Thats the point you miss, how can you make a rigid stance when the position is so flexible?

    If you think I am nazi symthatiser, wouldn't it be a bit odd that I payed a fellow jewish member a free dinner at a (not so good but cool, and me being fucked by medicinesscrew thatstuff) restaurant. You just have the wrong idea of me
    No, the point being that you defended a neo nazi and claimed that you were aware of the views he presented yet proved that you were completely in the dark on what it was you chose to talk about.

  5. #65
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    No I defended his right to be think what he wants, that it doesn't resonate all that well with what I really think of it doesn't matter to me. Remember the rules, no matter what an idiot you are, you still have the right to be one.
    Last edited by Fragony; 09-04-2016 at 11:24.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    No I defended his right to be think what he wants, that it doesn't resonate all that well with what I really think of it doesn't matter to me. Remember the rules, no matter what an idiot you are, you still have the right to be one.
    No you didn't. you denied the nature of his ideology denied that he said what he said and insisted that you had watched the interview.

    Turned out none of what you were saying was true didn't it.
    When challenged on your claims you came up with what appears to be your staple response to being simply completely wrong...."your mind is playing tricks on you again"

  7. #67
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legs View Post
    No you didn't. you denied the nature of his ideology denied that he said what he said and insisted that you had watched the interview.

    Turned out none of what you were saying was true didn't it.
    When challenged on your claims you came up with what appears to be your staple response to being simply completely wrong...."your mind is playing tricks on you again"
    I don't agree with him probaby, should I make a fuss about anything I don't like. I don't know who he is, so I don't even know who I am supposed to be defending. Out of some sadistic rwasons you seem to be making something out to be what I'm not. Get that moist breath out of my neck for me please, I don't even vote
    Last edited by Fragony; 09-04-2016 at 12:37.

  8. #68
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "And would it be a shock for you to discover that marxism is not a universal way" Err, no, nothing I don't know here.
    I explained it to you several times and you still don't get it. So, it is not a pre-suppose, it is back-up by facts.
    Or, more accurately, in your case, it is a deliberate effort to ignore it, but that is your opinion... So, deal with it.
    There is no better deaf than the one who don't want to hear. No offence/humiliation meant by the way...
    If you insist so much on your ability to come to conclusions based on facts, why don't you use it? You were telling people about oppressed Russians and Russian-speaking minorities in Ukraine who have a right to rebel against the nazi government, but you failed to produce at least ONE FACT which proves that Russians/Russian-speakers were mistreated/killed just for being Russians/speaking Russian. Where is your marxism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    Can you explain why saying that someone is ill-informed, or badly informed is humiliating and offensive? Thanks.
    You (what with virtue of manipulating techniques you studied and through long debating experience) know perfectly well how to offend or humiliate people without being caught. Branding others, who don't agree on some point with you, ill-informed and lumping them all together, hinting that it is too difficult for me (and others of my like) to comprehend high matters - and all of this based on PRE-SUPPOSITIONS, not on facts - amounts to disguized offense aimed at humiliating the opponent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    A lot of dictatorships were built on various form of economical/social analyse (i.e, religions), so your claim is invalid.
    Are they then marxist?

    My claim is that using facts one knows to make conclusions is called logics whatever its sphere of application is. Marxism is about "analyze and critique the development of capitalism and the role of class struggle in systemic economic change" (the same reference), and not about using facts as a back-up to explain what happened/will happen next, as you claim. Otherwise the statement "I need to buy butter, I look at the price and see that it is 4.85, conclusion: I will have to produce a five-pound bill from my wallet at the cashiers" would be considered marxist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    And if you are more than 60, you may have live 20 years under USSR as an adult, but I think I remember it is not the case.
    1. When does the adulthood start (according to you)?
    2. One doesn't have to be an adult for 20 years to comprehend what is going on around. Fewer years will suffice.
    3. In the USSR, one absorbs marxism before one comes of age since its basics were indeed taught in elementary school or perhaps even before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    Trying to back-up an un-sustainable claim by a un-related lived experience perhaps?
    Let me remind you that my claim (backed up by the RELATED experience of living in the USSR) was that marxism and democracy were not compatible when they were put to practice, so one can't call himself a marxist and a democrat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    And, perhaps it will be a shock to you who studied Marxism at University and lived 20 years under Marxism, Marx did live before the birth of USSR. Perhaps it will be a shock, but Marx never "predicted" a Revolution in China nor Russia as he though England or Germany, being industrialised in the 19!!!! Century should be the ones to start.
    ... and that kind of makes it invalid for explaining what happened in China or Russia? What about your claim that it can explain anything making conclusions based on facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    Perhaps it will be a shock for someone who studied Marxism to learn that Marxism is not a religion, so did evolved, with in-puts from other thinkers and others sciences.
    It may be a shock for you to discover that religions do evolve and, for example, the christianity of today with its de facto tolerance to homosexualism, out-of-wedlock sex, women as priests (in some confessions) is very different from medieval tradition. But it doesn't invalidate them (for the worshippers). The same with marxism - it was known as marxism-leninism in the USSR. But its basic tenets proclaimed by Marx (the pivotal role of class struggle in the development of the society, inevitable downfall of capitalism in a social revolution, the working class as the hegemon, inevitable development of socialism into communism) were kept intact. So I don't know if you share some of the new-fangled inputs or consider them perversions and prefer to stick to the orthodox ones, but the Soviet marxism-leninism was not a doctrine for democrats.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 09-04-2016 at 14:00.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  9. #69
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    I looked up the reference to a conviction for blasphemy in the UK in 1977 mentioned earlier in this thread. Turns out an editor for a gay magazine was found guilty of blasphemy for a poem saying, what are to me, unrepeatable things about Jesus at his crucifixion.

    1977 caught my attention because I learned recently that was the last time somebody was executed by beheading in a Western nation, it was a French prisoner.

    It does give a bit of perspective on what is going on in the Muslim world at the moment, to think that in 1977 we in the West were still convicting people for blasphemy and beheading them.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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  10. #70
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    "You were telling people about oppressed Russians and Russian-speaking minorities in Ukraine who have a right to rebel against the nazi government, but you failed to produce at least ONE FACT which proves that Russians/Russian-speakers were mistreated/killed just for being Russians/speaking Russian. Where is your marxism?" Never said that, you can check. I said that Russians had good reasons to believed in being oppressed, starting by a coup which expelled a President they helped to elect. Then of course, the mistakes about language and the fact that openly Nazi were in the Government. I call this objective reasons, facts.
    "Are they then marxist?" Up to you, as you have a XIX century definition of Marxism. All these studies...
    "One doesn't have to be an adult for 20 years to comprehend what is going on around." You are the one saying you live under the Marxist dictatorship known as USSR, not me. USSR final fall is 1991. So around 25 years. So, in order to experience the reality of the Dictatureship, ok, teenage, around 15, that made 40 years ago. If you are younger, no way you experienced it yourself.
    "In the USSR, one absorbs marxism before one comes of age since its basics were indeed taught in elementary school or perhaps even before." So the question is, were you in age to be Marxism during the time of USSR? And to understand it?
    "Let me remind you that my claim (backed up by the RELATED experience of living in the USSR) was that marxism and democracy were not compatible when they were put to practice, so one can't call himself a marxist and a democrat." I know what is your claim and answered it. It is an ill-informed opinion, probably due to bad teachers.
    "What about your claim that it can explain anything making conclusions based on facts?" Err, what is your system to explain reality? I am curious to know... Reading coffee, tea leaves, the stars?
    "but the Soviet marxism-leninism was not a doctrine for democrats." On that we agree.
    "It may be a shock for you to discover that religions do evolve" No, not really a shock. France had around 40 years of intermittent Religious wars due to Religions evolution (1562-1563, 1567-1568, 1568-1570, 1572-1573, 1574-1576, 1576-1577, 1579-1580 and 1585-1598), then a repression which push all protestants out of France (Louis the XIV). I pass on the Cathars' crusade, the revolts of the Vendée and Britany against the 1st republic (not only religious conflict) and others minors events, i.e. expulsion of the Jesuits, expulsion of the nuns from convents, confiscation of the Church possessions etc... to end by the law of separation between Church and State.
    Last edited by Brenus; 09-04-2016 at 19:43.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

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    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
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  11. #71
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    "1977 caught my attention because I learned recently that was the last time somebody was executed by beheading in a Western nation, it was a French prisoner." I remember this (vaguely, big debate within the adults). I was in College (French words, I think High School for UK equivalent). Then, in 1981, death penalty was abolished. And it was not for blasphemy (which not an offence in France, btw) but for murder and torture. He killed his wife who refused to prostitute herself (this I check on line, as I said, I was young).
    Last edited by Brenus; 09-04-2016 at 19:57.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

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  12. #72
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "You were telling people about oppressed Russians and Russian-speaking minorities in Ukraine who have a right to rebel against the nazi government, but you failed to produce at least ONE FACT which proves that Russians/Russian-speakers were mistreated/killed just for being Russians/speaking Russian. Where is your marxism?" Never said that, you can check. I said that Russians had good reasons to believed in being oppressed, starting by a coup which expelled a President they helped to elect. Then of course, the mistakes about language and the fact that openly Nazi were in the Government. I call this objective reasons, facts.
    If those were "objective reasons, facts" why they weren't followed by any oppression? Perhaps they were not objective reasons, but exaggerated expectations blown out of proportion by Russian propagana?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "Are they then marxist?" Up to you, as you have a XIX century definition of Marxism. All these studies...
    ME? Oh no, not me, wikipedia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "One doesn't have to be an adult for 20 years to comprehend what is going on around." You are the one saying you live under the Marxist dictatorship known as USSR, not me. USSR final fall is 1991. So around 25 years. So, in order to experience the reality of the Dictatureship, ok, teenage, around 15, that made 40 years ago. If you are younger, no way you experienced it yourself.
    "In the USSR, one absorbs marxism before one comes of age since its basics were indeed taught in elementary school or perhaps even before." So the question is, were you in age to be Marxism during the time of USSR? And to understand it?
    Use your marxist approach and calculate: 1991-20=1971. Were I old enough to be aware of the world around me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "Let me remind you that my claim (backed up by the RELATED experience of living in the USSR) was that marxism and democracy were not compatible when they were put to practice, so one can't call himself a marxist and a democrat." I know what is your claim and answered it. It is an ill-informed opinion, probably due to bad teachers.
    "but the Soviet marxism-leninism was not a doctrine for democrats." On that we agree.
    Don't you see that my claims in the first and second statement are identical? Yet you refute the first and comply with the second. And then claim that a marxist can be a democrat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "What about your claim that it can explain anything making conclusions based on facts?" Err, what is your system to explain reality? I am curious to know... Reading coffee, tea leaves, the stars?
    I call my system "logics" (you may have heard the word before, but it is my coinage, you know). And it works exactly as what you call marxism (making conclusions based on previous facts).
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
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  13. #73
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    "If those were "objective reasons, facts" why they weren't followed by any oppression?" Because the Russians left, separated from main Ukraine? That is a good start...
    "ME? Oh no, not me, wikipedia." And?
    "Don't you see that my claims in the first and second statement are identical?" Nope. That is worrying that you don't understand what you write... "so one can't call himself a marxist and a democrat" Your "so" is the mistake as you draw what you probably qualify a logical conclusion to your own prejudgement, and, what a surprise, it gave the answer you want... It is a syllogism, kind of "this swan is black, my dog is black, so my dog is a swan."
    "I call my system "logics"" It works only with the right bases and information, and only within a frame very well define. And your opinion about marxism is an example where your system failed you.
    Not only there, I grant you this, but you started it here.
    "Were I old enough to be aware of the world around me?" Probably but then what? Babies are aware of the world around them, doesn't make them expert in survival... You claim you studied Marxism, but until now, the only think you are saying have no link at all with a system of approaching events in order to understand them.
    Last edited by Brenus; 09-05-2016 at 18:50.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  14. #74
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    I looked up the reference to a conviction for blasphemy in the UK in 1977 mentioned earlier in this thread. Turns out an editor for a gay magazine was found guilty of blasphemy for a poem saying, what are to me, unrepeatable things about Jesus at his crucifixion.

    1977 caught my attention because I learned recently that was the last time somebody was executed by beheading in a Western nation, it was a French prisoner.

    It does give a bit of perspective on what is going on in the Muslim world at the moment, to think that in 1977 we in the West were still convicting people for blasphemy and beheading them.
    I didn't know that either is this really true?

  15. #75

    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Begs the question how bad it would be without the laws, doesn't it?
    After WW1, a certain Adolf Hitler got released early from prison after getting arrested for his views, we all know how well that worked out.
    Yes, I think we can all agree the Republic would have survived if only they kept Hitler in jail.

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  16. #76
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Yes, I think we can all agree the Republic would have survived if only they kept Hitler in jail.
    If you had a time machine, would you not go back in time to keep Hitler in jail?

    In post #25 of the political arrogance thread the expert in my link mentions that the republic wasn't quite as flawed as we often make it out to be, it were the changes and the fear of the people that made them susceptible to the manipulation from the right and made them watch Palpatine Hitler take over.

    Hitler was the man who rallied and organized the far right, whether someone else could have done the same with the same results is pure speculation, but quite a few of his companions had served jail terms, too. They should all have been kept in jail.


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  17. #77
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "If those were "objective reasons, facts" why they weren't followed by any oppression?" Because the Russians left, separated from main Ukraine? That is a good start...
    And you call yourself a person whose sound judgement is based on facts and who loathes pre-suppositions? Russians never left, still less Russian speakers. If you remember the map which showed "the division of Ukraine into Russian-speaking and Ukrainian speaking" (and I gave the reasons why it wasn't accurate) most parts of "Russian-speaking Ukraine" are still not occupied (as is the case with Crimea and a part of Donbas). So give me facts of oppressions in Kharkiv, Odessa, Mykolaiv, etc. It seems that your objective facts are not facts. So much for your conclusions based on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    You claim you studied Marxism, but until now, the only think you are saying have no link at all with a system of approaching events in order to understand them.
    What I said above shows that you don't follow that system either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "ME? Oh no, not me, wikipedia." And?
    If wikipedia gives "outdated definitions", and you claim you know the new=valid ones, who do you think I will prefer as a reliable source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "Don't you see that my claims in the first and second statement are identical?" Nope. That is worrying that you don't understand what you write... "so one can't call himself a marxist and a democrat" Your "so" is the mistake as you draw what you probably qualify a logical conclusion to your own prejudgement, and, what a surprise, it gave the answer you want... It is a syllogism, kind of "this swan is black, my dog is black, so my dog is a swan."
    "I call my system "logics"" It works only with the right bases and information, and only within a frame very well define. And your opinion about marxism is an example where your system failed you.
    Not only there, I grant you this, but you started it here.
    Once again, cut and dried: I was taught the basics of marxism. Only the basics. But they were securely impressed into the minds of all Soviet high-school and university students. If one wished to pursue a communist party career, one had to go much deeper into the matter. I didn't do that. But the basics I was taught and the life around me I observed allow me to conclude that democracy (practised, say, in the USA) and marxism (practised in the USSR) are not compatible. That is what I claim. Perhaps, the Soviet marxism was a wrong marxism (in your eyes), but, as I said, I made conclusions basing my opinion of this type of marxism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "Were I old enough to be aware of the world around me?" Probably but then what? Babies are aware of the world around them, doesn't make them expert in survival...
    I was not a baby when the USSR collapsed, I was 20. Yet you babble about babies. Rattle on. In fact, I'm astounded at the way how stubbornly you follow the false premise you made. Is this symptomatic of all marxists? The Soviet ones were much like you - arrogant and convinced in their own exclusive ability (incomprehensible for the uncouth laymen around them) to understand the way the world works and predict what will happen next. Somehow their predictions as to their country's future falied them. Where are they now, I wonder.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 09-06-2016 at 12:11.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  18. #78
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    It does give a bit of perspective on what is going on in the Muslim world at the moment, to think that in 1977 we in the West were still convicting people for blasphemy and beheading them.
    I wasn't. I was pogoing to God Save the Queen.
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    "You said you were a marxist" Only you and others ill-informed like you think it is incompatible. Marxism is a way of analysing through facts, based on reality check, not on pre-supposed. A bit too complex perhaps...
    Reality check? Marxism is a way of analyzing historical facts based on a couple of huge malfing "givens" (the very pre-supposes you decry) which undercut the whole thing if not accepted. Historical materialism? More or less cherry-picked for effect by Karl. Class consciousness? Works only if you can swallow the idea that a symbolic label has its own sense of self and that this is "real" when a deity cannot be. Marxism is a form of intellectual onanism that translates in practice if not theory as oppressive governance by a different crop elites who wear overalls instead of Saville Row three-pieces.

    But, as a Yank and a GOP supporter, I am in agreement that Marxist and Democrat can be equivalent terms.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  20. #80

    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    I don't agree with him probaby,
    Yet you claimed you knew what his views were.
    should I make a fuss about anything I don't like
    You made quite a fuss about something you clearly knew nothing about.
    I don't know who he is
    That was very clear.
    so I don't even know who I am supposed to be defending.
    Yet you made quite a sustained effort of defending him.
    Out of some sadistic rwasons you seem to be making something out to be what I'm not. Get that moist breath out of my neck for me please, I don't even vote
    Sorry, that makes no sense.
    Are you uncomfortable with what you write?

  21. #81
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Sigh it did neither of that, it's what your brain makes you see, but it isn't real... it's not there...

    ffs seek help

  22. #82

    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Sigh it did neither of that,
    That statement is simply untrue.

    it's what your brain makes you see, but it isn't real... it's not there...

    ffs seek help
    Well that saves on typing . I will just cut and paste this again.....
    That's funny, last time you tried that line you were shown to be lying about defending a neo nazi and having watched a video.
    Is your memory really that short? or is that just your standard response when you get stuck?

    .......isn't it funny how you write your standard response yet demonstrated that it is your mind which sees things that are not real.
    In that particular case your mind had produced an imaginary 10 minute interview with a non neo-nazi.

    This fits very well into the freedom of speech topic, after all there have been various laws restricting speech on the basis that what is being said or written is untrue.
    Last edited by Legs; 09-07-2016 at 07:19.

  23. #83
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    You can't just decide that something is untrue, it really has to be untrue, otherwise it isn't. It might be true to you, I believe that you really think that you read that. But it's not real. Maybe I should just put you on ignore, I am probably the only reason you made a new account after getting banned anyway. Go pick some flowers and feed some ducks

  24. #84
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Reality check? Marxism is a way of analyzing historical facts based on a couple of huge malfing "givens" (the very pre-supposes you decry) which undercut the whole thing if not accepted. Historical materialism? More or less cherry-picked for effect by Karl. Class consciousness? Works only if you can swallow the idea that a symbolic label has its own sense of self and that this is "real" when a deity cannot be. Marxism is a form of intellectual onanism that translates in practice if not theory as oppressive governance by a different crop elites who wear overalls instead of Saville Row three-pieces.

    But, as a Yank and a GOP supporter, I am in agreement that Marxist and Democrat can be equivalent terms.
    Now Brenus will say that you don't have enough wits to understand such lofty matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  25. #85

    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    You can't just decide that something is untrue, it really has to be untrue, otherwise it isn't. It might be true to you, I believe that you really think that you read that. But it's not real. Maybe I should just put you on ignore, I am probably the only reason you made a new account after getting banned anyway. Go pick some flowers and feed some ducks
    You proved without any shadow of doubt that your claims were not true.
    It really is that simple/
    Your denials are truly pathetic and a great illustration of your character and intergrity.

  26. #86
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legs View Post
    You proved without any shadow of doubt that your claims were not true.
    It really is that simple/
    Your denials are truly pathetic and a great illustration of your character and intergrity.
    You can't just decide that I proved something without a shadow of doubt, ireally have to do it, otherwise it doesn't exist, isn't real. [removed]
    Last edited by Beskar; 09-09-2016 at 02:50.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    You can't just decide that I proved something without a shadow of doubt, ireally have to do it, otherwise it doesn't exist, isn't real.
    Darling decide yourself.
    Did you watch the video you claimed to have watched?
    No
    Did you claim the video did not contain the material it contained?
    Yes
    Did you persist in your false claims long after they had fallen apart?
    Yes
    Did you invent a fictitious video which yopu claimed someone had posted as a foolish attempt to try and cover your lies?
    Yes


    [removed]
    And once again when confronted with facts you resort to your usual stupid insults.
    A great illustration of your character isn't it.

    So Fragony why are you so scared of the truth, are you ashamed of reality?

    Are you a prime example of why there are laws restricting free speech?
    It certainly looks that way
    Last edited by Beskar; 09-09-2016 at 02:50.

  28. #88
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    I replied on the video that was posted here, and what you say wasn't in it.

    That was only one of your claims, I am missing me defending the guy, let's start there, you said more and your tea is getting cold, and the lights are turned of at 10'clock

    anyways, I am off for a short, see if you can make anything out of it before the lights go off, and don't hide your medications you need them, I'll check it out tommorow
    Last edited by Fragony; 09-07-2016 at 17:29.

  29. #89

    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    I replied on the video that was posted here, and what you say wasn't in it.

    That was only one of your claims, I am missing me defending the guy,
    More lies.
    You do realise that habitual lying is a mental disorder don't you?

    let's start there, you said more and your tea is getting cold, and the lights are turned of at 10'clock

    anyways, I am off for a short, see if you can make anything out of it before the lights go off, and don't hide your medications you need them, I'll check it out tommorow
    Usual shiteposting from you again, which is really funny considering the above.

  30. #90
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freedom of speech, should there be limits?

    So you suddenly can't find it yaya. You know why you can't find it, because it's not there, tadaaa It doesn't exist

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