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Thread: Climate Change Thread

  1. #181
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Well this is disheartening. The US left the Paris Accord.
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  2. #182

    Default Re: Climate Change

    A positive spin is possible.
    The U.S. was seen as a block on anything more comprehensive and binding. Will there be movement now?; we'll see.
    China is the leader in solar tech, that will likely continue and deepen.:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health...agreement.html

    Who knows? To have a major emitter withdraw, and claim that as a victory seems a stretch
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  3. #183
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I dislike Scott Pruitt and coal.
    ....
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    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  4. #184
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Yeah... on second thought, the US is actually not out of the agreement. Unless they want to break international law.

    The Paris Agreement stipulates that a member cannot get out of the agreement until after 4 years.
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  5. #185

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval View Post
    Yeah... on second thought, the US is actually not out of the agreement. Unless they want to break international law.

    The Paris Agreement stipulates that a member cannot get out of the agreement until after 4 years.
    Good point, but I believe for now the admin has only ceased (or is planning to end) compliance with the non-binding elements of the treaty which the US has undertaken to date.
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  6. #186
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Obama not passing the pledge past congress has come to bite him in the ass, as it was not put through congress trump can pull out without consequence. It's probably the 30 billion dollarsa year Obama pledged to pay propping up other countries that made trump want to cancel it.

    Ah well at least you still have china- oh. india's no better.

    This accord has no teeth to punish divergeance, being part of it without the will to follow through is rather pointless beyond PR and Obama's pledge were prohibitively expensive both in payments and economic impact, so Trump refusing carrying out that follow through was basically inevitable.

    Doesnt help that the effect of the Paris agreement, even at 100% adheirance, is less than optimistic.

    Edit: altered the numbers as I found better info on who pays what:

    https://www.greenclimate.fund/docume...c-5566ed6afd19
    Last edited by Greyblades; 06-02-2017 at 07:00.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


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  7. #187

    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    At least Trump is consistent in the use of "alternative facts":

    http://www.motherjones.com/environme...aris-agreement
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  8. #188
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread



    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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  9. #189
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Thank you Husar, that really cheered me up.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
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  10. #190
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Macabre idea for two birds with one stone.

    Calculate the megatonnage needed for a series of 200m airbursts over every target of significance in North Korea to reach the target goal. Time this to coincide with a heavy precipitation weather system that crosses the NK portion of the peninsula on a West by a little north to east by a little north direction.

    1. take 2-3 degrees centigrade scale off global temperatures for 3-10 years, allowing a bridge for development of solar power.

    2. removed the current regime from NK while maintaining a DMZ suitable to assure China of it's security.


    Might be a touch heavy handed, but omelettes and eggs and all that. Also, skip any ski trips to Hokkaido for a bit.
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  11. #191

    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    The security dimension of climate change continues to be addressed.
    The name might be changed on programs and projections, but the issue is still getting attention.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...igger-for-war/

    The the present executive might deny climate change, but not all of the gov't has that luxury.
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  12. #192
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    "When you go in with facts and data and Climate Denier stooges just go 'LOLIAMBLIND'" EPA Nominee edition.

    Last edited by Beskar; 10-14-2017 at 11:45.
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  13. #193

    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Something that helps tie some of the threads together:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...dioxide-spike/

    Ocean warming, drought/fire carbon spikes...it's all there.
    Of course it may lose funding (or not) but it's nice to have the data for now.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  14. #194

    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Climate change accelerated.
    In the North, much of what is built is built on ice and/or permafrost.
    Rising temperatures on land and sea, can change the landscape very quickly.
    One island is having its shores recede at 40m/year; the village of Tuktoyaktuk 100km away, is on the move inland-its former town centre is now under water.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives...a-tuktoyaktuk/

    Alaska is also effected:

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2017...orth-is-coming

    Infrastructure does not fair well when the ground shifts.
    Last edited by HopAlongBunny; 10-16-2017 at 14:25.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  15. #195

    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Pollution, it seems, kills more people worldwide than smoking or war.
    Save people, improve the environment and save a ton of money; what exactly is the downside?

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pollut...aths-1.4363613

    Yes there are the short/long term trade-offs. "Let the next generation deal with it" is a common sentiment; "Let me get to retirement and then build the future" is another.
    Both ignore the fact, you are building the future today.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  16. #196
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Trump administration report is unable to find any convincing alternatives to man-made Climate Change
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...limate-change/
    Last edited by Beskar; 11-04-2017 at 11:30.
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  17. #197
    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Is Global warming really a bad thing for humanity as a whole? We are a tropical species after all. Yes, we might need to migrate, but warmer climate means wetter climate and who doesn't want a green Sahara?
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  18. #198
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Is Global warming really a bad thing for humanity as a whole? We are a tropical species after all. Yes, we might need to migrate, but warmer climate means wetter climate and who doesn't want a green Sahara?
    I'm afraid Sahara won't survive Norwegian prices after you (as in Norwegians) migrate there.
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  19. #199
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    The equator would actually become unlivable and the population will move further north to Canada, Siberia, etc as the new temperal climates, whilst those in the middle suffer further drought and famine.
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  20. #200
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Is Global warming really a bad thing for humanity as a whole? We are a tropical species after all. Yes, we might need to migrate, but warmer climate means wetter climate and who doesn't want a green Sahara?
    Yeah, JUST MIGRATE BILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD. Flawless.

    I'm sure the catastrophic net loss to food production will work itself out too.
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  21. #201
    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    The equator would actually become unlivable and the population will move further north to Canada, Siberia, etc as the new temperal climates, whilst those in the middle suffer further drought and famine.
    I don't think the ecological experts agree to this. They suggest minor to no differences in equatorial regions and more land being open to agriculture.
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  22. #202
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    It would be a pretty difficult transition, a lot of the world's farmland being close to sea level and close to the coast or river, preserving them would be rather expensive.

    We'd be better off if we still had africa's colonial breadbaskets, as they would be pretty much unaffected by a sea level rise but someone thought it would be a good idea to let them be taken over by various communists, psychopaths and communist psychopaths 50+ years ago.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 11-10-2017 at 10:02.
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  23. #203
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    It would be a pretty difficult transition, a lot of the world's farmland being close to sea level and close to the coast or river, preserving them would be rather expensive.

    We'd be better off if we still had africa's colonial breadbaskets, as they would be pretty much unaffected by a sea level rise but someone thought it would be a good idea to let them be taken over by various communists, psychopaths and communist psychopaths 50+ years ago.
    What??? Can you source that or are you just making stuff up now?


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  24. #204
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Could have sworn we've discussed Rhodesia before and how Mughabe screwed everything up.

    To simplify; there was a pattern in the ex colonies, either the communists come into power and screw the economy up, or they get blocked by a western supported president/dictator who was invariably corrupt (and half the time turned out to be a psychopath) who proceeded to screw the economy up. It really didnt do much for what used to be a region of fairly respectable output in terms of agriculture.

    Turn a breadbasket into a dustbowl with one neat trick; just add premature independance during a cold war.

    As for a source: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ountry/302845/

    Too anticolonial in tone by my reckoning but it is quite comprehensive.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 11-10-2017 at 15:41.
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  25. #205
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    It would be a pretty difficult transition, a lot of the world's farmland being close to sea level and close to the coast or river, preserving them would be rather expensive.

    We'd be better off if we still had africa's colonial breadbaskets, as they would be pretty much unaffected by a sea level rise but someone thought it would be a good idea to let them be taken over by various communists, psychopaths and communist psychopaths 50+ years ago.
    Be fair. Psychopaths and sociopaths surely, but there was and is no shortage of good old-fashioned capitalist kleptocrats to go along with the communards.
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  26. #206
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Turn a breadbasket into a dustbowl with one neat trick; just add premature independance during a cold war.
    How do you judge that independence is ripe?
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  27. #207
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Considering we havent really had a ripe one I wouldnt know; even India's release was marked by an immediate bloodbath.

    I'd say when the lower classes have become as accustomed to the status quo of a western society as the middle class, too many times we have taken a fully westernized middle class as a sign of sustainablility only for it to collapse as the newly emancipated working class/pesantry still have a bronze age mindset and let thier rights be stripped away without a fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Be fair. Psychopaths and sociopaths surely, but there was and is no shortage of good old-fashioned capitalist kleptocrats to go along with the communards.
    I consider those covered under the general pscho/sociopath lable.
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  28. #208
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Considering we havent really had a ripe one I wouldnt know; even India's release was marked by an immediate bloodbath.

    I'd say when the lower classes have become as accustomed to the status quo of a western society as the middle class, too many times we have taken a fully westernized middle class as a sign of sustainablility only for it to collapse as the newly emancipated working class/pesantry still have a bronze age mindset and let thier rights be stripped away without a fight.
    Ergo: independence is never timely?
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  29. #209
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Ergo: independence is never timely?
    Yes, notice how Russia had to re-colonize some southern regions when the independent country that tried to run them failed because it wasn't ready yet.


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  30. #210
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change Thread

    It'd be hard to argue that any of the African countries given full independence in the 60s-80s were ready for independence. Lots of them only had handful of educated people capable of running departments previously run by colonial officals. Then there are the violent tribal dynamics and infighting that came out once there was real political power to struggle for.

    Just look at the independence of the Belgian Congo and the 30 years of warfare there that spread into all of the neighboring countries and colonies. Places like Angola which were actually well off economically under the Portuguese turned into warzones. The tribal dynamics for all their ups and downs were upset by communist insurgents that were happy to kill off any 'feudal' lords or collaborators.
    While I don't agree with apartheid or minority rule in South Africa or Rhodesia it's no wonder that Ian Smith or the Afrikaners were not willing to welcome majority rule after seeing the chaos and bloodletting to the North of them.

    It would have helped if the newly independent countries had had some sort of transition period so they could have security forces in place, functioning government service and offer at least some stability instead of the free for all that ended up happening.

    I honestly think that the short sighted and selfish washing of hands independence by the European powers of their colonies was a greater crime than establishing them in the first place.

    Back to climate:
    I do think the new progress in the "Great Green Wall" in the Sahel region is nice to see. Using tree based farming techniques with trees and crops that complement each other, allow for more undergrowth and grow more crops that don't just deplete the soil. Would be great if Africa could feed and employ its own citizens better through smarter agriculture practices.
    http://www.greatgreenwall.org/great-green-wall/
    Last edited by spmetla; 11-10-2017 at 21:52.

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