Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 91 to 120 of 174

Thread: Climate Change Thread

  1. #91
    Intelligent Idiot Member Tuuvi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The wild west
    Posts
    1,342

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    I don't think I've had incandescents in my home since I was quite young. Actually, I suppose I still do; my old nightlight might be around somewhere.

    They're still the majority in private settings, but current figures indicate they more-or-less no longer exist in commercial or industrial settings (in the OECD world).

    More interestingly, outside the OECD world kerosene plus CFL beats out incandescent.

    Kerosene!
    My friend's aunt who lives on the Navajo reservation used to use kerosene to light her home because she didn't have electricity. I was pretty surprised to learn people still use kerosene for anything other than camping in the US.

  2. #92
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    9,623

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuuvi View Post
    My friend's aunt who lives on the Navajo reservation used to use kerosene to light her home because she didn't have electricity. I was pretty surprised to learn people still use kerosene for anything other than camping in the US.
    That is pretty rare, but more likely in poor areas such as the larger reservations. We also lose homes and families every year to people using kerosene heaters indoors without proper ventilation. Not common, but still happens.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  3. #93
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,660

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    A standard incandescent bulb, with the glass or plastic out cover tinted green, is still emitting the same light frequency, even it is re-filtered by the particular coating being used.

    Being picky, I would say "limited translucency." A truly opaque bulb would emit no visible light, only ultra or infra wavelengths. Just being snarky.
    'Opaque 1.
    not able to be seen through; not transparent.
    "bottles filled with a pale opaque liquid"
    synonyms: non-transparent, cloudy, filmy, blurred, smeared, hazy, misty, dirty, dingy, muddy, muddied, grimy, smeary
    "the bottle was made of opaque glass so that the contents could not be seen"'

    So a white light bulb or pearl using the marketing terms where you cannot see the filament. CFLs use these almost all the time.

  4. #94
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    in the cloud.
    Posts
    8,917

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    So a white light bulb or pearl using the marketing terms where you cannot see the filament. CFLs use these almost all the time.
    CFLs have to. If the coating inside the the bulb is damaged in any way, they emit unhealthy levels of ultraviolet radiation. Add that to their mercury content, and I think CFLs are actually kind of awful. LED bulbs, which are getting more reasonably priced, are a good alternative.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
    -Abraham Lincoln

  5. #95
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I live on the org, feeding off of what few thanks are tossed at my posts. It is up to you to make sure I don't starve.
    Posts
    7,957

    Default Re: Climate Change

    This thread is moot. President Trump will rip up the Paris agreement and we will just have to bank on Elon Musk somehow whipping his engineers into making a magical CO2 extractor machine.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.
    Member thankful for this post: ICantSpellDawg

  6. #96
    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Fortress of the Mountains
    Posts
    10,170

    Default Re: Climate Change

    I'm honestly hoping for at least a continuation of the Paris Agreement from the USA, because the Europeans will stick to it.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

    Proud

    Been to:

    10 years+ at the Org

  7. #97
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,660

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    This thread is moot. President Trump will rip up the Paris agreement and we will just have to bank on Elon Musk somehow whipping his engineers into making a magical CO2 extractor machine.
    Except the Paris agreement has more then the US involved

  8. #98
    Member Member V:force Champion HopAlongBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    2,848

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Ice!? We don't need no stinkin' ice!

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ird-right-now/
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  9. #99
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    14,384

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny View Post
    Ice!? We don't need no stinkin' ice!

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ird-right-now/
    We can just install an enormous, coal-powered refrigerator (= energy pump) there and make China pay for it.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

    Member thankful for this post:



  10. #100
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I live on the org, feeding off of what few thanks are tossed at my posts. It is up to you to make sure I don't starve.
    Posts
    7,957

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    Except the Paris agreement has more then the US involved
    Without commitment from the US to reduce carbon emissions, we are not going to make our goals. You know this.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.
    Member thankful for this post: ICantSpellDawg

  11. #101
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    7,862

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Had China agreed to the Paris agreement? Without commitment from the Chinese to reduce carbon emissions, you are never going to make your goals, USA or no.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  12. #102
    The Red Titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Albion
    Posts
    15,111

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Had China agreed to the Paris agreement? Without commitment from the Chinese to reduce carbon emissions, you are never going to make your goals, USA or no.
    Well, yes, they did.
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

  13. #103
    Member Member V:force Champion HopAlongBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    2,848

    Default Re: Climate Change

    House Science Committee, global warming is over (if it ever existed)

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...eitbart-tweet/
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  14. #104
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    14,384

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny View Post
    House Science Committee, global warming is over (if it ever existed)

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...eitbart-tweet/
    Actually I found the best reply to be this one: https://twitter.com/SenSanders/statu...32339640037376


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

    Member thankful for this post:

    Csargo 


  15. #105
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    East of Augusta Vindelicorum
    Posts
    5,531

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Not new but certainly ignored or overlooked as inconvenient.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestay.../#14adf391171b


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

  16. #106
    Member Member V:force Champion HopAlongBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    2,848

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Couldn't read the link above, but it got me looking at forbes.
    Found a very nice article on "cherry-picking" data:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksher.../#1dd268bf34a7
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  17. #107
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    7,930

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Not new but certainly ignored or overlooked as inconvenient.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestay.../#14adf391171b
    The article is worthless, but the study it refers to is more interesting. This is actually a pretty limited and old (2007) sample from a survey conducted by APEGA (Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists, and Geophysicists of Alberta) on its own members in the face of heated discussion on the subject among the membership.
    The purpose of the cited study is not to assess support for this or that question, but to use the open-ended answers from the survey in the framework of organizational science to discover how members "frame" institutional logics and the field of climate science and the construction of expertise and legitimacy. The elements used for classification were three organizing ideas:

    1. Climate change is natural, uncontrollable
    2. Climate change is both natural and humanmade
    3. Climate change is manmade, controllable

    With these, 7 subthemes were used to place individual respondents into the categories, or frames, created in the study:



    So the valuable part of the study is in its organizational science methodology. If your question is limited to 'what did engineers in Alberta think of anthropogenic climate change in 2007', then the answer of 'half or less subscribed' isn't informative or meaningful to a broader issue. More recent analyses of larger, more international surveys of those directly involved in climate science (rather than just engineers broadly) would be necessary to make the argument you seem to have in mind.
    Vitiate Man.

  18. #108
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    14,384

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Meteorologists are experts on the weather, not the climate. Geoscientists are a variety of scientists as well, their major employers are probably corporations that look for things in the earth, such as coal or oil, or....
    Not to forget that the author is the head of a very openly biased think tank: http://sparkoffreedomfoundation.org

    edit: That goes of course back to what Montmorency says about the interpretation of the study and so on. If the guy has an agenda, his interpretation cannot necessarily be trusted. And before you complain, I read his article and some of the links in it anyway, just to get an idea of what he is trying to say.

    I would also heavily disagree with his point that the free market will fix everything anyway, the free market is a great tool to destroy the environment in general. Might as well sell Uranium on the free market and claim that nothing bad will happen because the free market fixes everything. It only needs some basic logic and knowledge to see that we do at the very least have an impact on our climate. In fact, the natural causes that are cited as alternatives make the outlook even worse, because naturally we are/should be headed towards an ice age....

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/head...le-ice-age.htm

    It can therefore be concluded that with CO2 concentrations set to continue to rise, a return to ice age conditions seems very unlikely. Instead, temperatures are increasing and this increase may come at a considerable cost with few or no benefits.
    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/4...-next-ice-age/

    In about 2,000 years, when the types of planetary motions that can induce polar cooling start to coincide again, the current warming trend will be a distant memory.

    This means that humanity will be hit by a one-two punch the likes of which we have never seen. Nature is as unforgiving to men as it was to dinosaurs; advanced civilization will not survive unless we develop energy sources that curb the carbon emissions heating the planet today and help us fend off the cold when the ice age comes. Solar, nuclear, and other non-fossil-­fuel energy sources need to be developed now, before carbon emissions get out of hand.
    I'm well aware that the two sources do not entirely concur, but neither of them is very detailed on the issues, as the Milankovitch cycle is made up of more than two factors IIRC.

    Similarly, the idea that we cannot possibly have a huge impact on the planet is quite funny given that we make industrial use of most of the available landmass and burn fossils within a few hundred years that took millions of years to be naturally created. To say that this has no impact when the effect of greenhouse gases is clearly known, does seem rather silly to me. That "only" 59% of meteorologists believe climate change is man-made is not a very strong argument to the contrary, as much as mister Taylor may want it to be one.

    I don't even care whether it is 97% or 59% of climate scientists if the majority simply has the better arguments so far.
    A proper argument or model for "naturally ocurring climate change" would be a good start for a discussion rather than only relying on other peoples' opinions. I'd like to know why people think climate change is natural, what exactly caused it, why these causes would not naturally cause a very slow descent into an ice age instead and why the human contribution to greenhouse gases in our atmosphere is so small that it does not matter.
    Last edited by Husar; 12-10-2016 at 20:26.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  19. #109
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    7,930

    Default Re: Climate Change

    why the human contribution to greenhouse gases in our atmosphere is so small that it does not matter.
    Most critics who are also climate scientists don't disagree with an anthropogenic factor in principle, but say that weak experimental results leave us currently unable to say what specific climate outcomes will or can be the result of specific human actions, to the point that there is not enough evidence that curbing absolute CO2 emissions alone would mitigate any observed trends (whether or not these trends should be interpreted as "catastrophic"). Another example:

    A hypothesis to the effect that humans cause some warming, or
    even that most current global warming is very likely to be anthropogenic, is not—and does
    not necessarily imply—a hypothesis to the effect that current warming, if continued over
    some unspecified period, might prove sufficiently damaging to justify any climate policy to
    address climate change, still less any public support for it.
    Vitiate Man.

  20. #110
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    14,384

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Most critics who are also climate scientists don't disagree with an anthropogenic factor in principle, but say that weak experimental results leave us currently unable to say what specific climate outcomes will or can be the result of specific human actions, to the point that there is not enough evidence that curbing absolute CO2 emissions alone would mitigate any observed trends (whether or not these trends should be interpreted as "catastrophic"). Another example:
    That seems like a risky stance to take. "Let's move at full speed until we can definitely tell whether it's just a hilltop or a cliff" seems like a dangerous stance if you cannot possibly brake anymore by the time you know for sure. As for the effects of too many greenhouse gases, I think Venus could be a good example.

    http://www.universetoday.com/22577/v...nhouse-effect/

    You might be surprised to know that Venus is the hottest planet in the Solar System. With a global temperature of 735 Kelvin (462 degrees C), the surface of Venus is hot enough to melt lead. And if you could stand on the surface of Venus, you would experience atmospheric pressure 92 times greater than what you’re used to on Earth. Why is Venus so hot? The Venus greenhouse effect shows you what happens when this the process of trapping sunlight goes out of control into a runaway process.
    Not that we would necessarily get these temperatures here, but the effects of a few degrees more in a short period of time can be seen in the disappearance of coral reefs and other effects.
    What bugs me even more is that most of the climate change denial seems to go hand in hand with a general attitude of only looking for profits and "the industry" and so on, while we already have fish poisoned with plastic, terrible soil erosion and many other adverse effects that come from basically the same attitude of "let's wait until people die in droves before we change anything".


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  21. #111
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    9,623

    Default Re: Climate Change

    The world is much cooler than it once was, but much warmer than some of our more recent cold periods. SOURCE

    The last century or so has seen, by human standards, a fairly large increase in average temperature. Whether this is driven primarily by humans or not, it is certainly altering our life space and creating concerns that must be addressed.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  22. #112
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    7,930

    Default Re: Climate Change

    That seems like a risky stance to take. "Let's move at full speed until we can definitely tell whether it's just a hilltop or a cliff"
    Specifically here a foggy cliffside road and we can't tell how what we're doing affects the car until after a considerable distance.

    Regardless, the best approaches should factor in considerable death and damage. A question of "whether" we can avoid consequences is a bad one, and any action motivated by it will invariably disappoint.
    Vitiate Man.

    Member thankful for this post:

    Husar 


  23. #113
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    14,384

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    The world is much cooler than it once was, but much warmer than some of our more recent cold periods. SOURCE
    And again I generally agree with you, but have to say that to argue we're fine because dinsosaurs and insects the size of a rhinocerus could survive much warmer temperatures is not exactly consistent with my goals in life. *squashes a bug that is conveniently not large enough to eat him*

    Of course in the long term we may have to find another planet anyway and in the really long term even that won't save us eternally.
    Maybe the idea is that we could rather leave the universe with a bang now than to drag it out for a few more millennia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Regardless, the best approaches should factor in considerable death and damage. A question of "whether" we can avoid consequences is a bad one, and any action motivated by it will invariably disappoint.
    Well, yes, and I haven't turned vegan yet either to save the planet. Either way changing what we can is better than just running into the light. I mean, even the Chinese are willing to cooperate the matter, but then again some say it's their conspiracy.
    Last edited by Husar; 12-10-2016 at 22:08.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  24. #114
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,457

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    The world is much cooler than it once was, but much warmer than some of our more recent cold periods. SOURCE

    The last century or so has seen, by human standards, a fairly large increase in average temperature. Whether this is driven primarily by humans or not, it is certainly altering our life space and creating concerns that must be addressed.
    More immediately, although this may apply less to the US than to Europe, the energy suppliers that the Euros depend on are decidedly unfriendly to our way of life. If we don't want to go with the Saudis and others in the area, then there are the Russians. And the Russians count as relatively close to our way of thinking. We need to reduce our energy consumption, if only to gain more independence in our foreign policy. The 1970s (IIRC) should have driven this lesson home.

  25. #115
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    9,623

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    More immediately, although this may apply less to the US than to Europe, the energy suppliers that the Euros depend on are decidedly unfriendly to our way of life. If we don't want to go with the Saudis and others in the area, then there are the Russians. And the Russians count as relatively close to our way of thinking. We need to reduce our energy consumption, if only to gain more independence in our foreign policy. The 1970s (IIRC) should have driven this lesson home.
    Ya think? I remember those gas lines. I remember the death of the "Big Steel" US auto.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  26. #116
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    7,862

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  27. #117
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    9,623

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    He has to address it fairly quickly once in office. A fair chunk of his voters have no interest in shackling the economy in order to meet the Paris accord demands. Not quite sure what he will do with it though.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  28. #118
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    2,987

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Not quite sure what he will do with it though.
    Neither is he.

  29. #119
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    East of Augusta Vindelicorum
    Posts
    5,531

    Default Re: Climate Change

    I support continued research into climate but see consensus as a limiting factor in scientific advancement.

    I view government legislative intervention as dubious. Primarily because it was the topic of policy papers in the early 1970 as a means of population control. A propaganda tool to expand government power.

    Since that time we have had; a coming ice age, acid rain, the ozone hole, global warming, and simply climate change. The bulk of the money to bring these issues to the fore has also come from the same people who commissioned the policy papers and their adherents in government.

    All of the science behind these causes have been marked by controversies in their scientific voracity and methodology.

    Whether or not anthropomorphic impact on climate is real or not the policies are in line with the original outline and those serve corporatists and government at the expense of everyone else.

    However, not being one to take someone’s word for things I have done my own research. At best I find it inconclusive.

    The question comes down to what you are willing to give up. Do you sacrifice rights and liberties for the promise of additional security for what may or may not be a problem we can effect or do you resist additional governmental control. And do understand, that control will be limitless, at least in the end.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

    Member thankful for this post:



  30. #120
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    14,384

    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Since that time we have had; a coming ice age, acid rain, the ozone hole, global warming, and simply climate change. The bulk of the money to bring these issues to the fore has also come from the same people who commissioned the policy papers and their adherents in government.
    the ice age is technically still coming, the effects of acid rain could be seen on plenty of exposed statues and the likes and the ozone hole is closing again because we raplaced the problematic cooling fluids with ones that release terrible greenhouse gases. Maybe the lesson is not that someone is making up problems to scare us, but that playing with chemistry on a grand scale without thinking about any consequences can have side effects?
    Besides, you forgot plastic in our fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    However, not being one to take someone’s word for things I have done my own research. At best I find it inconclusive.
    Are we to take your word for it or would you be willing to explain your conclusion in a bit more detail?
    Because my research came to the opposite conclusion. We can either discuss it now (hopefully in a friendly way) or just agreee to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    The question comes down to what you are willing to give up. Do you sacrifice rights and liberties for the promise of additional security for what may or may not be a problem we can effect or do you resist additional governmental control. And do understand, that control will be limitless, at least in the end.
    I think that is a bit too poetic. Restricting industry emissions etc. is hardly a terrible restriction of freedom. The point is even funnier when you compare Europe and Africa before and after the restrictions. Arguably we are doing even better and they even worse, so where is the big problem? Besdies, government is what the citizens make of it, not a separate threatening entity. And the enemies of climate change just seem to have voted for a POTUS who seems far more liberty-threatening than all the ones before him.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO