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Thread: Climate Change Thread

  1. #61
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Incandescent bulbs have a lot of glass and metal and stuff and animals cut themselves on it. Or, stepping aside from your level of reasoning: http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2..._lca-pt2_0.pdf

    Scroll to the charts and discussion of environmental impacts in Section 7, of filament, CFL, LED 2012, and LED 2017 lamps, across soil, water, and air, from raw materials and manufacturing to disposal and storage.

    For the LED lamp in 2017, the profile is similar to that of the 2012 lamp, however the significance of
    energy is diminished due to the fact that this lamp is considerably more efficacious. For this reason, the
    other impacts are able to gain a slightly higher proportion of the relative impact for each of the fifteen
    categories considered. In this analysis, energy in use represents an average of 78.2% of the impact,
    followed by raw materials at 19.3% and manufacturing at 2.3%. The transportation and disposal of the
    lamp are negligible, at less than 0.2% each.
    And for comparisons between lamps: LED simply does better in every category, including hazardous and non-hazardous landfill.
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  2. #62
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Incandescent bulbs have a lot of glass and metal and stuff and animals cut themselves on it.
    Meaning that LEDs don't have any of those?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post

    And for comparisons between lamps: LED simply does better in every category, including hazardous and non-hazardous landfill.
    So, you admit it IS hazardous?

    Again, a Westerner is applying a grid natural for him unconscious of its inadequacy (or limited adequacy) elswhere.

    As far as I know, LEDs give a comparatively narrow ray meant to light a limited area around it. Traditionally, Ukrainian homes have the electricity network oriented towards lighting the whole room with one source of light hanging from the ceiling in the middle of this room. Wall bracket lamps and bedside lamps are used on a limited scale if at all. A room where only such lamps are lit is considered too dark and people are likely to switch on the central light if they stay there. A LED central light will leave most of the room murky. So LEDs may in fact be used only in desk lamps which will not change the overall situation greatly.
    Even if the tradition is going to change (which I doubt) should I (and many others) re-design the whole electricity layout to be able to use LEDs and have my place properly lit? And what if in a couple of years they will come up with a new invention which will allow me to rely on central source of light again - should I change the layout back?

    Anyway, that is not my message. What I want you to see is: banning one thing which is purportedly bad and not banning other things which are as bad (or even worse) undermines the whole institute of the freedom of choice and individual responsibility which are cornerstones of Western democracy.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 09-24-2016 at 15:47.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    So, you admit it IS hazardous?
    Your potatoes and apples and grains are full of poison. Stop growing them immediately.

    whole institute of the freedom of choice
    No.
    individual responsibility
    Opposite.

    cornerstones of Western democracy.
    Please.

    As far as I know, LEDs give a comparatively narrow ray meant to light a limited area around it. Traditionally, Ukrainian homes have the electricity network oriented towards lighting the whole room with one source of light hanging from the ceiling in the middle of this room. Wall bracket lamps and bedside lamps are used on a limited scale if at all. A room where only such lamps are lit is considered too dark and people are likely to switch on the central light if they stay there. A LED central light will leave most of the room murky. So LEDs may in fact be used only in desk lamps which will not change the overall situation greatly.
    Do you live in a mansion? If so, get more than one light. If not, get a lamp with luminous properties suitable for the actual space in which it will be installed. There are many to "choose" from. Non-issue.

    What I want you to see is: banning one thing which is purportedly bad and not banning other things which are as bad (or even worse)
    We have established that available fluorescent and LED lighting is straightforwardly less bad than filament lighting and filament lights.


    The only concern I will give you is if dictats are too fickle or rapid to cope with for the citizen. But it's not happening anytime soon. Even in OECD countries, the filament bulb is used as majority in residential buildings (though almost not at all in industrial/commercial buildings by now). Incandescents are actually proportionally less-used in non-OECD countries in "the Global South", if only because kerosene lighting is still so popular. So don't worry about it too much, your children will take care of you.
    Vitiate Man.

  4. #64
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Come-the-on, a whole paragraph about the spatial difficulties of photon distribution in traditional ukrainian homes regarding the spatial properties and material placement of LED light bulbs when capitalism already has you covered:

    http://www.osram.com/osram_com/produ...ic-a/index.jsp

    Yes, it's about as glassy as the indandescent, but that was wanted in the first place, no?
    Regarding waste and so on, they also last longer than incandescents, that should reduce the glass waste in comparison.


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  5. #65
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Your potatoes and apples and grains are full of poison. Stop growing them immediately.
    MY potatoes and apples and grains are still natural enough (although the situation is changing), so you might be correct speaking of YOURS. And you don't seem inclined to stop growing them. Anyway, call Monasanto for further information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Please.
    This is the level of argument I like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    We have established that available fluorescent and LED lighting is straightforwardly less bad than filament lighting and filament lights.
    Beer is straightforwardly less bad than vodka, paper bags are straitforwardly less bad than plastic ones, but somehow the "badder" ones are still not banned. How come and why is it different for LEDs and incandescents? And why CFLs are not banned since they are straightforwardly worse than LEDs?
    Banning something in such cases is not a solution, especially in the countries that are all about human rights and freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    The only concern I will give you is if dictats are too fickle or rapid to cope with for the citizen. But it's not happening anytime soon. Even in OECD countries, the filament bulb is used as majority in residential buildings (though almost not at all in industrial/commercial buildings by now). Incandescents are actually proportionally less-used in non-OECD countries in "the Global South", if only because kerosene lighting is still so popular. So don't worry about it too much, your children will take care of you.
    My concern is not about the speed of implementation, but about the imposition of views WHERE YOU LIVE. And I don't worry at all, WHERE I LIVE incandescents (replaced when needed) will last me my life time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Come-the-on, a whole paragraph about the spatial difficulties of photon distribution in traditional ukrainian homes regarding the spatial properties and material placement of LED light bulbs when capitalism already has you covered:

    http://www.osram.com/osram_com/produ...ic-a/index.jsp

    Yes, it's about as glassy as the indandescent, but that was wanted in the first place, no?
    Regarding waste and so on, they also last longer than incandescents, that should reduce the glass waste in comparison.
    I will make inquiries about it, but not sure it made its way in here. And the price will aslo matter since if something is labeled as "innovation" it is sure to be not cheap.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 09-25-2016 at 06:17.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    MY potatoes and apples and grains are still natural enough (although the situation is changing), so you might be correct speaking of YOURS. And you don't seem inclined to stop growing them. Anyway, call Monasanto for further information.
    Firstly, no, stop being foolish. Secondly, all growing things absorb and concentrate various trace elements such as lead, arsenic, cyanide, etc. from the ground they grow in, without exception. The good thing about toxic materials is that toxicity depends upon quantity and concentration. This is why you don't die at any given moment of the day.
    Vitiate Man.

  7. #67
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    I may need to rethink my stance on renewables, even though I'm not sure whether that is serious or not:

    https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...2f&oe=58A00C30



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  8. #68
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Yep, typical moron. Even medieval windmills could be designed to resist rotation in a certain direction, and regardless the same electronic configuration that allows to draw power from one direction of rotation could be used to do the same for the other.
    Vitiate Man.

  9. #69
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Yep, typical moron. Even medieval windmills could be designed to resist rotation in a certain direction, and regardless the same electronic configuration that allows to draw power from one direction of rotation could be used to do the same for the other.
    Medieval windmills were built to be rotatable to face the wind.

    Working example

  10. #70
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    I don't mean the facing relative to the wind, but the range of motion of the hub for the blades themselves: counterclockwise vs. clockwise vs. both.
    Vitiate Man.

  11. #71
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Someone suggested to tell him that the backwards rotation is necessary because we use alternating current.


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  12. #72
    Member Member V:force Champion HopAlongBunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    The temperate areas in the Mediterranean might change to desert.
    OTOH we might get forest cover in the Arctic:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...nds-to-desert/
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  13. #73
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Again, a Westerner is applying a grid natural for him unconscious of its inadequacy (or limited adequacy) elswhere.

    As far as I know, LEDs give a comparatively narrow ray meant to light a limited area around it. Traditionally, Ukrainian homes have the electricity network oriented towards lighting the whole room with one source of light hanging from the ceiling in the middle of this room. Wall bracket lamps and bedside lamps are used on a limited scale if at all. A room where only such lamps are lit is considered too dark and people are likely to switch on the central light if they stay there. A LED central light will leave most of the room murky. So LEDs may in fact be used only in desk lamps which will not change the overall situation greatly.
    Even if the tradition is going to change (which I doubt) should I (and many others) re-design the whole electricity layout to be able to use LEDs and have my place properly lit? And what if in a couple of years they will come up with a new invention which will allow me to rely on central source of light again - should I change the layout back?

    Anyway, that is not my message. What I want you to see is: banning one thing which is purportedly bad and not banning other things which are as bad (or even worse) undermines the whole institute of the freedom of choice and individual responsibility which are cornerstones of Western democracy.
    Actually you can get leds that shine like an incandescent or fluorescent light and they will brighten more of the room for less power. The ones that mimic an incandescent light generally have an opaque globe around the led and the whole globe will glow.

    The other omnidirectional ones look like little Xmas trees with led filaments in gold strands.
    Last edited by Papewaio; 11-02-2016 at 02:54.

  14. #74
    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change



    Leaving this here for someone who has one hour to spare to watch about climate change.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

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  15. #75
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    Actually you can get leds that shine like an incandescent or fluorescent light and they will brighten more of the room for less power. The ones that mimic an incandescent light generally have an opaque globe around the led and the whole globe will glow.

    The other omnidirectional ones look like little Xmas trees with led filaments in gold strands.
    It is the opaque bulb that causes the kind of light I dislike. Besides, we seemed to agree that LEDs are more harmful to the environment than incandescents if not properly disposed of (which is an issue for Ukraine).

  16. #76
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Besides, we seemed to agree that LEDs are more harmful to the environment than incandescents if not properly disposed of (which is an issue for Ukraine).
    No, that was one of the points you erred on. The only real issue with LEDs compared to predecessors, like with all complex electronics, is that they require consumption of more extractable metals in the first place (i.e. metal depletion).

    But you can't make circuits, wires, and filaments from wood.
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  17. #77
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    No, that was one of the points you erred on. The only real issue with LEDs compared to predecessors, like with all complex electronics, is that they require consumption of more extractable metals in the first place (i.e. metal depletion).

    But you can't make circuits, wires, and filaments from wood.
    My mistake. I meant CFCs. Yet it doesn't cancel the unpleasant (for me) hew of light they emit.

  18. #78
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    My mistake. I meant CFCs. Yet it doesn't cancel the unpleasant (for me) hew of light they emit.
    CFLs, and how do you know what light LEDs emit if you have apparently next to no experience with them?


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  19. #79
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    CFLs, and how do you know what light LEDs emit if you have apparently next to no experience with them?
    CFCs. Invented by the same genius who added lead to petrol. To demonstrate the safety of his invention, he inhaled a container of leaded petrol and claimed it was harmless. He was hospitalised with lead poisoning afterwards. When he was disabled in later life, he devised a system of pulleys to help lift him from bed. Which later killed him as he got caught up in the strings and was strangled.
    Last edited by Pannonian; 11-03-2016 at 14:22.

  20. #80
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    CFLs, and how do you know what light LEDs emit if you have apparently next to no experience with them?
    When I see opaque bulb I can easily guess why is it made that way and what kind of light it emits.

  21. #81
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    CFCs. Invented by the same genius who added lead to petrol. To demonstrate the safety of his invention, he inhaled a container of leaded petrol and claimed it was harmless. He was hospitalised with lead poisoning afterwards. When he was disabled in later life, he devised a system of pulleys to help lift him from bed. Which later killed him as he got caught up in the strings and was strangled.
    What is the cite on this, Pan-man? I teach research methods and this is a MARVELOUS example of "going wrong with certainty."
    I do hope it is not apocryphal.
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  22. #82
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    When I see opaque bulb I can easily guess why is it made that way and what kind of light it emits.
    A standard incandescent bulb, with the glass or plastic out cover tinted green, is still emitting the same light frequency, even it is re-filtered by the particular coating being used.

    Being picky, I would say "limited translucency." A truly opaque bulb would emit no visible light, only ultra or infra wavelengths. Just being snarky.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

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  23. #83
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    What is the cite on this, Pan-man? I teach research methods and this is a MARVELOUS example of "going wrong with certainty."
    I do hope it is not apocryphal.
    Thomas Midgley Jr.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    Doctor Thomas Midgley Jr. (May 18, 1889 – November 2, 1944) was an American mechanical engineer and chemist. He was a key figure in a team of chemists, led by Charles F. Kettering, that developed the tetraethyllead (TEL) additive to gasoline as well as some of the first chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). Over the course of his career, Midgley was granted over 100 patents.
    ...
    On October 30, 1924, Midgley participated in a press conference to demonstrate the apparent safety of TEL. In this demonstration, he poured TEL over his hands, then placed a bottle of the chemical under his nose and inhaled its vapor for sixty seconds, declaring that he could do this every day without succumbing to any problems whatsoever.[5][8] However, the State of New Jersey ordered the Bayway plant to be closed a few days later, and Jersey Standard was forbidden to manufacture TEL there again without state permission. Midgley would later have to take leave of absence from work after being diagnosed with lead poisoning.[9]

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  24. #84
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    The days before occupational and environmental safety was codified into dance.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Montmorency; 11-03-2016 at 19:26.
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  25. #85
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    A standard incandescent bulb, with the glass or plastic out cover tinted green, is still emitting the same light frequency, even it is re-filtered by the particular coating being used.
    You may easily guess that when I say I don't like that kind of light I don't go into comparing wavelengths, frequencies or voltage. It is just a feeling that doesn't need any intelligent substantiation except one - it feels like a hospital.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Being picky, I would say "limited translucency." A truly opaque bulb would emit no visible light, only ultra or infra wavelengths. Just being snarky.
    Then your snarkiness (is it a word?) is ill-aimed. The word "opaque" was used by Papewaio and I believe he is an authentic speaker of English. Since he used it I assumed it was acceptable. But your correcton is sensible. From now on I will say "the bulb that Papewaio terms opaque". It will make communication a little awkward, but accuracy matters.

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  26. #86
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    When fitting LED lights, the key is the color temperature. The first LED bulbs were higher temperature bulbs, which gave them a (ironically) cold, bright feel. This is no longer an issue. Most LEDs should have the color temp on the package, look for ones in the 2500-3000 K range.
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  27. #87
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    You may easily guess that when I say I don't like that kind of light I don't go into comparing wavelengths, frequencies or voltage. It is just a feeling that doesn't need any intelligent substantiation except one - it feels like a hospital.....
    Concur. I have three incandescent lamps in my office and leave the sickly flourescents OFF whenever possible.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

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  28. #88
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    When fitting LED lights, the key is the color temperature. The first LED bulbs were higher temperature bulbs, which gave them a (ironically) cold, bright feel. This is no longer an issue. Most LEDs should have the color temp on the package, look for ones in the 2500-3000 K range.
    They have gotten better.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  29. #89
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    Concur. I have three incandescent lamps in my office and leave the sickly flourescents OFF whenever possible.
    I don't think I've had incandescents in my home since I was quite young. Actually, I suppose I still do; my old nightlight might be around somewhere.

    They're still the majority in private settings, but current figures indicate they more-or-less no longer exist in commercial or industrial settings (in the OECD world).

    More interestingly, outside the OECD world kerosene plus CFL beats out incandescent.

    Kerosene!
    Vitiate Man.

  30. #90
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Climate Change

    My house is wired with a central ceiling mount (it's not uniquely Ukrainians) and Fluorescent bulbs always leave the room dark and shadowy. I have a halogen lamp on desk, another fluorescent lamp above it (that I never use) and an incandescent by my bed. The Incandescent, despite being in the corner, light the room almost as well and the fluorescent on the ceiling.

    I'll grant you they're better, but they're still crap.
    Last edited by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus; 11-05-2016 at 18:29.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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