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Thread: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

  1. #31
    Stranger in a strange land Forum Administrator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Final exams for me have begun so I havent really been as around or involved on here as much as I should have so Ill just say this: nobody ever seems to be really happy with the moderation levels. Ive been a mod of the Backroom with Beskar for over a year now and we have gotten multiple complaints how we are too lenient and too strict. Especially when it came to language. Its really hard to go through every post and censor all the bad language. And what constitutes bad language? There are some of the obvious ones and I try to fix it where I see it, but some words like "damn" Im not sure if people would include on the list to censor. We get complaints either way. Id like to think that at least the regulars on here would be able to hold themselves to a higher standard. I am no saint in this regard and I recognize I have issues too. The idea of the "code of honour" thing, at least to me, was that it would be a symbol to the commitment to civil discussion that ideally we all should strive to. Maybe it sounds silly to some and maybe it is. But I thought that the idea merited honest discussion.
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  2. #32
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I wasn't even alive in 1986
    My first memories (fleeting and sketchy) stretch back to the Fall of 1967. This is, therefore, the beginning of the universe.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

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  3. #33
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Other them?

    Ok, I take back what I said - I'm only gonna bully Gilrandir from now on. At least his lack of judgement may be explained by being personally involved, and there's a chance there's an intelligent person underneath
    Being thus singled out by a person who admits himself liable to banning confirms my surmise that I'm doing things right.

  4. #34
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    My first memories (fleeting and sketchy) stretch back to the Fall of 1967. This is, therefore, the beginning of the universe.
    Dad?
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

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  5. #35
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Other them?

    Ok, I take back what I said - I'm only gonna bully Gilrandir from now on. At least his lack of judgement may be explained by being personally involved, and there's a chance there's an intelligent person underneath
    Stop. Dont. Come back. I cant live without the approval of the forum's serbian troll.

    Almost everything you champion here, like men's rights, demonisation of feminism, anti-PC and so on is part of the textbook definition of political stances of the alt-right. Even that shady complaint after your attempt to 'other' all the PC-folk is typical for the alt-right.

    I really don't think I'm releasing your big secret here. That I don't like the alt-right or your recent political convictions is hardly a secret either.
    And every Sauron of Akkad (-approved) video you post only makes it worse.

    By the way, I reported the last one due to excessive use of f-bombs in it, but apparently noone has gotten around to deleting it. It offends my PC-sensibilities (and the forum rules).
    Too often you try to prove me wrong and end up resorting to trying to associate me with some outcast group.

    Who cares if he's right; he's racist, he's sexist, he's a men's right activist, he's an alt righter, just so long as you can make the lable that makes people recoil stick to me you can tell yourself and anyone who can listen that you are right and in the heat of the moment everyone is either driven away or forgets what the topic was.

    This combined with the increasingly hostile and insipid tone (Sauron of Akkad, really?) and the attempts at peer pressure has made debating You, Showtime, Pannonian, Krazelic and Samaritan an increasingly futile and unfulfilling experience of the Backroom. You used to be better at this.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 11-29-2016 at 14:40.
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  6. #36
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    Final exams for me have begun so I havent really been as around or involved on here as much as I should have so Ill just say this: nobody ever seems to be really happy with the moderation levels. Ive been a mod of the Backroom with Beskar for over a year now and we have gotten multiple complaints how we are too lenient and too strict. Especially when it came to language. Its really hard to go through every post and censor all the bad language. And what constitutes bad language? There are some of the obvious ones and I try to fix it where I see it, but some words like "damn" Im not sure if people would include on the list to censor. We get complaints either way. Id like to think that at least the regulars on here would be able to hold themselves to a higher standard. I am no saint in this regard and I recognize I have issues too. The idea of the "code of honour" thing, at least to me, was that it would be a symbol to the commitment to civil discussion that ideally we all should strive to. Maybe it sounds silly to some and maybe it is. But I thought that the idea merited honest discussion.
    I view modding rather like parenting - it is rarely ever always correct and rarely ever implemented with complete fairness and everyone can complain about their parents. But equally everyone benefits from their benign intervention and most believe that it is being done with the best of intentions.

    I thought that was what being a Senior Member indicated - it in essence allows little in the way of Power but indicates one has been around for a fair bit and most of the time follows Queensbury Rules.

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  7. #37
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Too often you try to prove me wrong and end up resorting to trying to associate me with some outcast group.
    Perhaps that is because you keep linking their videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Who cares if he's right; he's racist, he's sexist, he's a men's right activist, he's an alt righter, just so long as you can make the lable that makes people recoil stick to me you can tell yourself and anyone who can listen that you are right and in the heat of the moment everyone is either driven away or forgets what the topic was.
    That's just sad, you used to....actually, no, it's just as wrong as it always was. I never said who cares if he's right, because you're usually wrong and just dismiss all evidence to the contrary by...attempting to link it to some evil outcast group/mainstream-undermining conspiracy.
    I guess as long as you can find some pseudo-scientific reason to dismiss all evidence of you being wrong, you can continue to tell yourself that your crusades against the oppressed and the underprivileged are morally correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    This combined with the increasingly hostile and insipid tone (Sauron of Akkad, really?) and the attempts at peer pressure has made debating You, Showtime, Pannonian, Krazelic and Samaritan an increasingly futile and unfulfilling experience of the Backroom. You used to be better at this.
    Yes, we're all part of the evil establishment and you alone can see all the scientific evidence you never show us because you always just use the unalienable assumption that your view is the default and needs to be proven wrong by "scientific evidence" that is certainly not any of the evidence you are shown.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  8. #38
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    This combined with the increasingly hostile and insipid tone (Sauron of Akkad, really?) and the attempts at peer pressure has made debating You, Showtime, Pannonian, Krazelic and Samaritan an increasingly futile and unfulfilling experience of the Backroom. You used to be better at this.
    If you mean Good Samaritan you are wrong. By his own admission, he is Evil Samaritan.

  9. #39
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Stop. Dont. Come back. I cant live without the approval of the forum's serbian troll.
    And just after I've said I'll leave you alone. Oh, how vicious art thou.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    If you mean Good Samaritan you are wrong. By his own admission, he is Evil Samaritan.
    Evil Sarmatian.

    Don't insult my tribe and its illustrious cultural achievements!
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 11-29-2016 at 17:07.

  10. #40
    Ask Hooahguy (Not Here) Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    "Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness." - Bismarck.
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

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  11. #41
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Dad?
    Well, I was living in Texas from 89 through 93.....
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

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  12. #42
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    I miss Kadagar - at least he was selfish and xenophobic for the love of his country.

    And kinda fun, let's be honest.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  13. #43
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    I miss Kadagar - at least he was selfish and xenophobic for the love of his country.
    That's pretty much how every xenophobe sees it.

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  14. #44
    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Right, so what I can gather from our little discussion in this thread is that half of the posters would like stricter tones, some more lenient.

    That being said - the concept of the Backroom Bill of Personal Rights is aimed at offering the middle ground that in essence most of the people would agree with. It's a concept, it's a code of conduct to adhere to, much like the Code of Honour for Multiplayer TW.

    Try and look at it from this perspective, regardless of your personal views on whether moderating should be more strict or more lenient.

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  15. #45
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    "Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness." - Bismarck.
    I vote this be the first and maybe only Backroom rule.

    Name-calling, profanity and other chest-thumping adds nothing to the debate and should be discouraged.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 11-30-2016 at 00:34.
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  16. #46
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by PVC
    I miss Kadagar -

    And kinda fun, let's be honest.
    He was an awful interlocutor, and, shall we say, his head was thicker than his penis. Not impressed with either his thought or his demeanor.

    at least he was selfish and xenophobic for the love of his country.
    As opposed to a xenophobe without love for his country? Isn't that just a misanthrope?
    Vitiate Man.

  17. #47
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
    Try and look at it from this perspective, regardless of your personal views on whether moderating should be more strict or more lenient.
    It's essentially exhortation toward 'honor culture', I get it. But I figure this community is too small, inactive, and old to produce an internal impetus. So people like PVC who would favor more active moderation would take an external motivation to change the culture - but again the same problem of the community being too small, inactive, and old.

    Vitiate Man.

  18. #48
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    But I figure this community is too small, inactive, and old
    Give the man a cigar, he nailed it.

  19. #49
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    So all these old people are too childish to follow a code of conduct?

    I am not sure many of you know what the moderation used to be like. You couldn't even get here unless they thought you were mature enough to handle it and still many got booted. Most of what is in the thread so far would have gotten you infractions or warnings. The posts would have been deleted or at a minimum, edited. Short quips were trolling and got you an infraction. Only well thought out replies lasted any time at all. The ideas were attacked, not the people.
    It couldn't even be seen my most of the members.
    Baskar's code only takes us back to how you needed to behave just to see the Backroom. And Most of these posts would have been Deleted because they are Off Topic!

    LOL http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...-Notice-to-all


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  20. #50
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    his head was thicker than his penis. Not impressed with either
    This is where I held my breath.

    But thank God I read it through:

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    his thought or his demeanor.

  21. #51
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    I am not sure many of you know what the moderation used to be like. You couldn't even get here unless they thought you were mature enough to handle it and still many got booted. Most of what is in the thread so far would have gotten you infractions or warnings. The posts would have been deleted or at a minimum, edited. Short quips were trolling and got you an infraction. Only well thought out replies lasted any time at all. The ideas were attacked, not the people.
    It couldn't even be seen my most of the members.
    Baskar's code only takes us back to how you needed to behave just to see the Backroom. And Most of these posts would have been Deleted because they are Off Topic!
    This can't be true. My image of these boards is coming tumbling down. According to Sarmatian, "those times" were the Golden Age of the Forum, when grass was greener, snow was whiter, water was wetter and women were younger. As the myth goes, modern forumers are only lesser sons of great sires who used to be engaged in meaningfully unfathomed discourse. There were no conflicts but only gentle remonstrance of a kindly interlocutor with an erring but much-loved fellowman. Both were made of a lofty mould - reverend and wise. Modern forumers would seem ill-mannered children or stupid servants in comparison to these lords and elders.
    Don't ruin this picture of the past that never was.

  22. #52
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    So all these old people are too childish to follow a code of conduct?
    In a way, yes. Number of regular posters dropped significantly and what's left are "old" posters who know each other so well that we know what everyone's gonna say on any given topic.

    Also, since there are very few active members, there's little need for a comprehensive set of rules. The Backroom was destroyed long ago when BG, Adrian and Louis were forced out. Arguably even before, around the time when Kukri left.

    Since notable Backroom members were also the most active posters in the Monastery, that room also died a slow death. What was left of the forum was the Total War area, which was long ago surpassed by other Total War forum/sites/reddits...

    The entire Org basically exists out habit and nothing else. Unless some 50 new members who are diverse, eloquent and intelligent magically appear, there's simply no point in enforcing any kind of rules because it simply doesn't matter.

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  23. #53
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights


    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    This is where I held my breath.

    But thank God I read it through:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    This can't be true. My image of these boards is coming tumbling down. According to Sarmatian, "those times" were the Golden Age of the Forum, when grass was greener, snow was whiter, water was wetter and women were younger. As the myth goes, modern forumers are only lesser sons of great sires who used to be engaged in meaningfully unfathomed discourse. There were no conflicts but only gentle remonstrance of a kindly interlocutor with an erring but much-loved fellowman. Both were made of a lofty mould - reverend and wise. Modern forumers would seem ill-mannered children or stupid servants in comparison to these lords and elders.
    Don't ruin this picture of the past that never was.
    Just an example but both your posts would have been deleted. Everyone would be reminded to stay on topic and you would get a nasty pm from a mod telling you to stick more closely to the topic or loose your backroom privileges. I am sure Sarmatian can tell you about those.

    Mods dreaded the cleanup work here as much as everyone dreaded their wrath. If you look back on those old times there was a reason most threads only got about one page of replies. Editing and censorship.

    If you didn't play nice they sent you home with a swat on the behind.
    Last edited by Fisherking; 11-30-2016 at 13:08.


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  24. #54
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    In a way, yes. Number of regular posters dropped significantly and what's left are "old" posters who know each other so well that we know what everyone's gonna say on any given topic.

    Also, since there are very few active members, there's little need for a comprehensive set of rules. The Backroom was destroyed long ago when BG, Adrian and Louis were forced out. Arguably even before, around the time when Kukri left.

    Since notable Backroom members were also the most active posters in the Monastery, that room also died a slow death. What was left of the forum was the Total War area, which was long ago surpassed by other Total War forum/sites/reddits...

    The entire Org basically exists out habit and nothing else. Unless some 50 new members who are diverse, eloquent and intelligent magically appear, there's simply no point in enforcing any kind of rules because it simply doesn't matter.
    Well, the Org lost membership for reasons still unclear. BG retired. Burnout is my best guess. Adrian II drifted away. Last time he was here was a couple of years ago, as far as posting goes. Louis is in self imposed exile after trying to get the rules loosened and getting slapped down for it. There is also a change in online culture that has lead to less deep discussion and more quips and slagging. Also seen in the political and public life.

    What Baskar proposes is the exercise of your personal liberty of free speech which is tempered with civility. Liberty is Freedom exercised with your responsibility to not infringe on the liberties of others.

    Civility is important to the free exchange of ideas, whither you like those ideas or not. The rules are the same as those for civil debate. Attack the ideas but never the person. When it moves to personal attack, you have already lost your argument. Something grossly overlooked in current times. The abandonment of logic in favour of point scoring and shouting down or belittling of others.
    Last edited by Fisherking; 11-30-2016 at 13:32.


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    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  25. #55
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Well, the Org lost membership for reasons still unclea. BG retired. Burnout is my best guess. Adrian II drifted away. Last time he was here was a couple of years ago, as far as posting goes. Louis is in self imposed exile after trying to get the rules loosened and getting slapped down for it.
    I don't really want to go into this again. Those who were involved know what happened.

    There is also a change in online culture that has lead to less deep discussion and more quips and slagging. Also seen in the political and public life.

    What Baskar proposes is the exercise of your personal liberty of free speech which is tempered with civility. Liberty is Freedom exercised with your responsibility to not infringe on the liberties of others.

    Civility is important to the free exchange of ideas, whither you like those ideas or not. The rules are the same as those for civil debate. Attack the ideas but never the person. When it moves to personal attack, you have already lost your argument. Something grossly overlooked in current times. The abandonment of logic in favour of point scoring and shouting down or belittling of others.
    I don't disagree in principle. Heck, I don't even disagree in general.

    I just think there's no point.

  26. #56
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    So all these old people are too childish to follow a code of conduct?

    I am not sure many of you know what the moderation used to be like. You couldn't even get here unless they thought you were mature enough to handle it and still many got booted. Most of what is in the thread so far would have gotten you infractions or warnings. The posts would have been deleted or at a minimum, edited. Short quips were trolling and got you an infraction. Only well thought out replies lasted any time at all. The ideas were attacked, not the people.
    It couldn't even be seen my most of the members.
    Baskar's code only takes us back to how you needed to behave just to see the Backroom. And Most of these posts would have been Deleted because they are Off Topic!

    LOL http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...-Notice-to-all
    It wasn't as bad as all of that. You could still tell someone to go to hell- you just had to be diplomatic.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 11-30-2016 at 14:16.
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  27. #57
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    I shall attempt to be frank, but diplomatic.

    Without going over the details let me remind everyone that it has been acknowledged by certain current members and staff that several former members of staff were, shall we say, made unwelcome and thence left. I imagine the thread discussing this is still in the Watchtower but it was on the record, so lets not gloss over it.

    There was a period a few years ago when the Org started to move into a Death Spiral, after Tosa died. Certain people were promoted, perhaps prematurely, and certain others were marginalised.

    It is a testament to the basic decency of most of the members that the Org is still here at all.

    Having said that, there is a strong argument for maintain a level of cordial behaviour in the Backroom.

    Sarmation says that we are too old to mend our ways, that is not true, we've simply become lazy, we're all perfectly capable of being polite and civil if we want to. The question then is why should we want to. The answer is simple - to attract new people. I joined the Backroom as a confused and angry 19 year-old, it taught me a lot about good debate and self-reflection. I felt safe because the Backroom was tightly moderated, so that if I made a fool of myself I was not ripped to shreds, rather my points were carefully dissected and analysed. If I misbehaved my infraction was explained to me without rancour, and I was given a proportionate warning or punishment.

    The Backroom no longer feels safe - it feels like an isolated country pub deep in some forgotten valley where grim-faced men stare morosely at their drinks, argue in a foreign language and occasionally a fistfight breaks out. If you're one of those men this probably feels like home, if you're a young man sticking his head in the door for the first you're probably going to be making a run for it.

    If we want new members of good quality to debate with then we need to be of good quality ourselves. It's not like new people don't come to the Backroom but of the recent intake over the last few years the good ones all left after a few months, the malcontents have all been perma-banned once they annoyed Beskar enough and we're left with a few new misanthropes.

    Edit: I just read this is the Watchtower.

    http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...gony-departing

    Fragony left, in essence, because Husar called his a Nazi - even though he doesn't think he is one.

    Whatever else you may think of Fragony he was absolutely correct on one point - personal attacks are not allowed under the forum rules, and those rules apply to all members who post equally (there being nothing in the rules that says otherwise).
    Last edited by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus; 11-30-2016 at 15:09.
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  28. #58
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post

    If we want new members of good quality to debate with then we need to be of good quality ourselves.
    If you want new members you need the thing that started the site - Total war games. People who played them sought their soul mates (or game mates) in the internet and eventually found the site and discovered the forum. Now TW series seem obsolete (what with the advent of new games with better graphics and with the ageing of computers that support TW games), so the main reason while people joined in disappeared. The forum is doomed to a (slower or quicker) decline.

  29. #59
    Ask Hooahguy (Not Here) Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    In a way, yes. Number of regular posters dropped significantly and what's left are "old" posters who know each other so well that we know what everyone's gonna say on any given topic.
    That seems like a topic for a fun parody thread. I am going to credit inspiration from you.
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
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  30. #60
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Wow, missed that Fragony thread. Can't say I'm surprised. I've told myself and other posters I was going to leave a few times since the Louis incident. Haven't yet. This place sticks to me like a bad habit, like beer or banging fatties. Civility in this environment seems passé.

    I guess I stay because some of you still interest me, that and I don't have a facebook. You people are my social media.

    Also I figure if I stay here long enough I will evebtually be made moderator of the backroom. At which point I will track down banquo. LOOK AT ME NOW DAD.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

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