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Thread: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

  1. #61
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    As the myth goes, modern forumers are only lesser sons of great sires who used to be engaged in meaningfully unfathomed discourse.

    There were no conflicts but only gentle remonstrance of a kindly interlocutor with an erring but much-loved fellowman.
    well, true enough if i don't mind saying so myself. ;)

    haha, you should have seen tribesman and me go at it!

    like pvc's contribution best. civility.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  2. #62
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Well, the Org lost membership for reasons still unclear. BG retired. Burnout is my best guess. Adrian II drifted away. Last time he was here was a couple of years ago, as far as posting goes. Louis is in self imposed exile after trying to get the rules loosened and getting slapped down for it. There is also a change in online culture that has lead to less deep discussion and more quips and slagging. Also seen in the political and public life....
    As I understand it, Adrian II, Hortore, and Tosa are all in "the majority" now. Many others have drifted away -- circle of life and all that.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  3. #63
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Wow, missed that Fragony thread. Can't say I'm surprised. I've told myself and other posters I was going to leave a few times since the Louis incident. Haven't yet. This place sticks to me like a bad habit, like beer or banging fatties. Civility in this environment seems passé.

    I guess I stay because some of you still interest me, that and I don't have a facebook. You people are my social media.

    Also I figure if I stay here long enough I will evebtually be made moderator of the backroom. At which point I will track down banquo. LOOK AT ME NOW DAD.
    I am certain he would be proud of you.
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    and the attempts at peer pressure has made debating You, Showtime, Pannonian, Krazelic and Samaritan an increasingly futile and unfulfilling experience of the Backroom. You used to be better at this.
    I don't know what you're on about, I've never been disrespectful to you. I appreciate everyone's view here or else I wouldn't be here. I am by no means the smartest person here either so although it may be an unfulfilling experience to you, I don't look at it that way.

    If I get to a point where I'm feeling this is an unfulfilling experience I will leave.
    Last edited by Beskar; 12-02-2016 at 13:02.

  5. #65
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    The backroom has always reflected the standards of discourse of its day.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.
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  6. #66
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    The backroom has always reflected the standards of discourse of its day.
    The Backroom has always reflected itself??
    Vitiate Man.

  7. #67
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    The Backroom has always reflected itself??
    Reflexive reflexivity.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  8. #68
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    The Backroom has always reflected itself??
    I would rather think he means the standard of discourse in the media and in public.
    If you're merely joking, ignore me.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  9. #69
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    I was getting at disagreement. Come on, really.
    Vitiate Man.

  10. #70
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    I think another good rule of thumb for constructive discussion (in addition to minimal profanity and attacking the argument, not the person) is don't use links or videos to make your argument for you. Make your own arguments and use links for support/reference.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
    -Abraham Lincoln

  11. #71
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou View Post
    I think another good rule of thumb for constructive discussion (in addition to minimal profanity and attacking the argument, not the person) is don't use links or videos to make your argument for you. Make your own arguments and use links for support/reference.
    I think I have had this discussion about a bajillion times with my students.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  12. #72
    Ja mata, TosaInu Moderator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Rarely a link might do the argument in itself, but only rarely - and only if it's well sourced, thought out and detailed, to support the argument that you are trying to make.

    But most of the times, indeed, make your own arguments and support them.
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  13. #73
    Ask Hooahguy (Not Here) Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Sometimes a video can add a new perspective to a discuss, or be able to deliver information in a way which adds humour to the debate. It could be that the video is an interest in itself, like discussing a topic on automation (in the other thread), I linked to the "Humans Need Not Apply" because it is a really a 'must watch' before engaging the topic because it will challenge peoples pre-conceived ideas which will debate actually possible, before they just simply try to shut you down out of ignorance.
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  14. #74
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou View Post
    I think another good rule of thumb for constructive discussion (in addition to minimal profanity and attacking the argument, not the person) is don't use links or videos to make your argument for you. Make your own arguments and use links for support/reference.
    Videos and articles are often the kickoff point of a discussion. I assume you speak of follow on posts in this regard. However, what I see as a larger problem with the exchange of ideas is that some will simply disregard what is said without reading or viewing the information or opinion simply because of personal bias against an author or a website. They more often than not live by a principal: "As soon as by one's own propaganda even a glimpse of right on the other side is admitted, the cause for doubting one's own right is laid." quote from Adolf Hitler.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  15. #75
    Ask Hooahguy (Not Here) Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Videos and articles are often the kickoff point of a discussion. I assume you speak of follow on posts in this regard. However, what I see as a larger problem with the exchange of ideas is that some will simply disregard what is said without reading or viewing the information or opinion simply because of personal bias against an author or a website. They more often than not live by a principal: "As soon as by one's own propaganda even a glimpse of right on the other side is admitted, the cause for doubting one's own right is laid." quote from Adolf Hitler.
    Fake News is an actual concern. There are some websites which do peddle out total rubbish where even the basic 'facts' (if they were even facts) completely misrepresent the situation, or flat out wrong. It is about authenticity of the source of information. You have people linking to things like loose change, a shortclip where Bush Jr did 9/11, and they take it as the gossip because of the soundtrack and random unattributed quotes to paint the picture, or a thread a couple of weeks back that I locked where a random guy on Reddit is posting about how the Clinton Campaign are all paedophiles.

    This is why having a reputable news site covering the story is usually a good direction, because they are held to account by standards agencies which monitor their content, so they cannot get away with posting total nonsense without consequences.

    Whilst there are cases of people who go "all these news sites are rubbish, I am going to stick to a random blogger, because they are definitely not bias or have an agenda" and where your comment would suitably apply. Then there are those who stick to things like the Daily Mail/Fox News solely, with their less than impressive track record who are almost as guilty themselves.
    Last edited by Beskar; 12-03-2016 at 13:22.
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

  16. #76
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Fake News is an actual concern. There are some websites which do peddle out total rubbish where even the basic 'facts' (if they were even facts) completely misrepresent the situation, or flat out wrong. It is about authenticity of the source of information. You have people linking to things like loose change, a shortclip where Bush Jr did 9/11, and they take it as the gossip because of the soundtrack and random unattributed quotes to paint the picture, or a thread a couple of weeks back that I locked where a random guy on Reddit is posting about how the Clinton Campaign are all paedophiles.

    This is why having a reputable news site covering the story is usually a good direction, because they are held to account by standards agencies which monitor their content, so they cannot get away with posting total nonsense without consequences.

    Whilst there are cases of people who go "all these news sites are rubbish, I am going to stick to a random blogger, because they are definitely not bias or have an agenda" and where your comment would suitably apply. Then there are those who stick to things like the Daily Mail/Fox News solely, with their less than impressive track record who are almost as guilty themselves.

    I am speaking of ideas. "Fake News" can have different meanings for different people. News stories are not quite the same, however, everything written has a bias, intentional or unintentional. The problems I see are just that. People prefer News which reinforces their own views and those who represent views not in line with their particular biases are rejected out of hand. Ideas should be evaluated using logic. Not upon how well we like the rhetoric. Too often we a persuaded by rhetoric without examining the logic on which the notion is based.

    Today there is hardly any news organisation I would call Trustworthy, no matter how much of an icon of truth they may have been in the past. Left, Right, Up, or Down, they have all been guilty of spinning stories to influence what you think. I would rather we all learn to examine opposing views and remember How To Think rather than stick to once upon a time reliable sources.

    Make our judgments upon logic and discernible facts and not upon our preference of political slant.
    Last edited by Fisherking; 12-03-2016 at 18:36.


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  17. #77
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Ideas should be evaluated using logic. Not upon how well we like the rhetoric.
    Make our judgments upon logic and decreeable facts and not upon our preference of political slant.
    Unfortunately this conceit is apt to produce motivated reasoning.

    It's telling that it frequently comes paired with denunciations of media bias.
    Vitiate Man.

  18. #78
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Unfortunately this conceit is apt to produce motivated reasoning.

    It's telling that it frequently comes paired with denunciations of media bias.
    unfortunately you seem to have had the same trouble I did with an auto correct. As I said before. Everything has a slant. Being able to recognise it is what matters. Good argument should stretch our boundaries not reinforce a static position. We too often rely on specialists who declare themselves experts to tell us what to think when we should be thinking for our selves.

    "For Every Expert there is an equal and opposite Expert" Arthur C. Clark


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
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    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  19. #79
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    when we should be thinking for our selves.
    The problem is whether and when one can think for themselves regardless of experts.
    Vitiate Man.

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  20. #80
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Everything has a slant. Being able to recognise it is what matters.
    If everything and everyone has a slant it is logical to presume that the consumer of news isn't free from his own slant. Thus, even if one recognizes it elsewhwere he will still keep his own. Then two conclusions come to mind:
    1. Slantless is impossible.
    2. Why bother trying to avoid it since when getting rid of one you will get another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    We too often rely on specialists who declare themselves experts to tell us what to think when we should be thinking for our selves.
    We can't become experts in every field , so we have to rely on other people who know more than you on this or that issue.

  21. #81
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    The problem is whether and when one can think for themselves regardless of experts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    If everything and everyone has a slant it is logical to presume that the consumer of news isn't free from his own slant. Thus, even if one recognizes it elsewhwere he will still keep his own. Then two conclusions come to mind:
    1. Slantless is impossible.
    2. Why bother trying to avoid it since when getting rid of one you will get another.



    We can't become experts in every field , so we have to rely on other people who know more than you on this or that issue.
    We all have free will, use it or not. But it is usually a good idea to know if you travel with a pride of lions or a troop of lemmings.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

  22. #82
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    We all have free will, use it or not.
    What would be the point of your statement? That contrarianism reflects free will? Why even mention it? For a libertarian there shouldn't be anything that doesn't reflect free will.

    But it is usually a good idea to know if you travel with a pride of lions or a troop of lemmings.
    These metaphors don't carry you.
    Vitiate Man.

  23. #83
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    I am speaking of ideas. "Fake News" can have different meanings for different people. News stories are not quite the same, however, everything written has a bias, intentional or unintentional. The problems I see are just that. People prefer News which reinforces their own views and those who represent views not in line with their particular biases are rejected out of hand. Ideas should be evaluated using logic. Not upon how well we like the rhetoric. Too often we a persuaded by rhetoric without examining the logic on which the notion is based.

    Today there is hardly any news organisation I would call Trustworthy, no matter how much of an icon of truth they may have been in the past. Left, Right, Up, or Down, they have all been guilty of spinning stories to influence what you think. I would rather we all learn to examine opposing views and remember How To Think rather than stick to once upon a time reliable sources.

    Make our judgments upon logic and discernible facts and not upon our preference of political slant.
    Whether or not you dismiss the concept of fake news, there is still a difference between good treatment of information, and bad treatment of information. The background I use is that of historiography, as that's a whole area of study that assumes unreliable evidence, and thus has to find the most accurate truth it can from information that will never wholly be satisfactory. This is an area of study that has been discussed, as theory, as far back as at least Polybius (2nd century BC). And yet, in the Labour party thread, we have people dismissing sources for being close to the subject, a documentary featuring primary sources from all the relevant individuals being dismissed as "just a video", yet a video from an uninvolved comedian is used to support their cause. Arguments of a kind that would make trained historians explode with their plain idiocy.

    When discussing things in the Backroom, can we agree on some basic foundations? Eg. primary sources are good, as close to the subject as possible. It's not much to ask for, to accept this basic foundation for subsequent discussion. The death of reason in internet discussion comes from ignoring these basics. If you think that any oik's opinion is worth more than relevant sources as long as there are enough people saying it, then there's no point in discussion. Just post a poll and close the thread.

  24. #84
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Eg. primary sources are good, as close to the subject as possible.
    Historiography finds primary sources good for some things, worse for others. And it's important to keep in mind that historiography and political or moral debate have different objectives, and use sources in different ways.
    Vitiate Man.

  25. #85
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Historiography finds primary sources good for some things, worse for others. And it's important to keep in mind that historiography and political or moral debate have different objectives, and use sources in different ways.
    Bloody hell, no wonder the Backroom has gone downhill. Back in the day, I respected the likes of Redleg for knowing much more about the world than I did, so that every post of his and other similar posters was an education for me. They're sources who are closer to the subjects than I can manage, and thus I respected their input. And here's an argument that information as accurate and as close to the subject as possible is irrelevant to politics. You'd love Michael Gove: "I think we've had enough of experts."

  26. #86
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    And here's an argument that information as accurate and as close to the subject as possible is irrelevant to politics.
    Stop it. I am pointing out that what sources are useful depend on what you are using them for, not that they have no use. I will be charitable and assume you simply take a reactive approach to what you perceive as undue denigration of a type of source, rather than advancing a position that primary sources are an epistemic be-all-end-all.
    Vitiate Man.

  27. #87
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Bloody hell, no wonder the Backroom has gone downhill. Back in the day, I respected the likes of Redleg for knowing much more about the world than I did, so that every post of his and other similar posters was an education for me. They're sources who are closer to the subjects than I can manage, and thus I respected their input. And here's an argument that information as accurate and as close to the subject as possible is irrelevant to politics. You'd love Michael Gove: "I think we've had enough of experts."
    This is an example of:

    1. Swearing (Bloody Hell means "By Our Lady, burn in Hell/Go to Hell")

    2. Character Assassination.

    Monty made a technical point - which was entirely correct - and from that you drew out a personal criticism against his character.

    That would have netted you a warning point, once upon a time, three instances of that and you'd be benched for a couple of weeks.

    It's bad tactics, instead of actually trying to score in the debate over the point being debated you are attempting to discredit the person making the point.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  28. #88
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Bloody hell, no wonder the Backroom has gone downhill. Back in the day, I respected the likes of Redleg for knowing much more about the world than I did, so that every post of his and other similar posters was an education for me. They're sources who are closer to the subjects than I can manage, and thus I respected their input. And here's an argument that information as accurate and as close to the subject as possible is irrelevant to politics. You'd love Michael Gove: "I think we've had enough of experts."
    He was a good'un to argue with indeed.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  29. #89
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Also I figure if I stay here long enough I will evebtually be made moderator of the backroom. At which point I will track down banquo. LOOK AT ME NOW DAD.
    Fear not, youngling. When the time comes for you to fulfil your destiny, I will find you.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

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  30. #90
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concept: Backroom Bill of Personal Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    Fear not, youngling. When the time comes for you to fulfil your destiny, I will find you.
    Sweet sweet validation.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers.

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