Empire 2 Total War

[edyzmedieval]

It's needed.

No really, it's needed. While I do understand that CA has some reticence with regards to a future E2TW, the fact is that... the series needs a new Empire. It won't be the next game, because they announced a new era, but it's needed a refresh of the original.

Why?

Well, for starters, it's the sheer scope that offers so much fun. I played Empire TW again for some time recently and it turned out to be quite the fun. Granted, I enjoyed my Empire TW time beforehand as well, because I started about a year after it was released so it was patched up considerably and offered a smooth experience. Nevertheless, the sheer scope of the game offered so much fun, so many possibilities and it clearly gave some interesting strategical options to consider, particularly if you play with the larger empires such as British or Spanish.

2 more aspects that are unique to Empire - trade (again, because of the scope), which makes the game a sort of a commercial tycoon type game, and it's fantastic. Second, the specific time frame which bridges between late medieval/gunpowder with modern eras. Case in point - you fighting with ships of the line with sails against steamships. It many ways, playing with one of the bigger empires is a real delight, which is not usually the case in a Total War game as it can easily become a simple steamroller job to finish the game. But the multitude of options, strategic complexities and historical events (United States - 1776) makes it a standout.

Bonus points - the Road to Independence campaign.

Plus, having overseas territories can really help you in the case of European mainland protracted wars, acting as an economic and military support for your empire. Obviously not present in other TW games because of the time frame, but it still is a very neat detail.

Thoughts?

[LittleGrizzly]

Yes, yes and yes.

ETW has been, for the SP experience, my favourite total war. I think I enjoyed the battles and the multiplayer more in the earlier titles but for the campaign map ETW was my favourite.

The campaign map was huge, I liked little touches like being able to take territory in India without a diplomatic penalty. I loved the trade as well, started a new Dutch campaign recently in within a few turns I was making thousands in profit thanks to trade (and the trade zones)

I'd find myself supporting a protectorate taking territory whereas in other TW's I would usually race my own protectorate or ally to take it first for myself.

Whenever I have played another TW since ETW I end up feeling the campaign map is too small...

[edyzmedieval]

Indeed!

Now, we can only hope for an ETW2 or at least something similar, like Victorian TW...

[Risasi]

I think you've talked me into it. I sincerely hope that they make an Empire 2, but...

- Start at least a century earlier. I would like to see some Pike & Shot battle action. 30 years war, Ivan the Terrible and Romanov history of Rus. Heck, even the Mongols could make a guest star appearance.

- Borders. Considering the multiple buildings in a province of Empire, and the province/region system introduced in Rome 2, I believe that they need to re-think borders. I'd like to see a "soft" border system implemented. Did anyone ever play "Rise of Nations". The affects of tech and wonders, and other variables would "push" one's border against their neighbor and change the sphere of influence over the land mass. I think something similar would better represent how empires are built and wax and wane with time. Specifically France and their one province in the original Empire is what made me think of this. You still have a region capital, but then a "sphere of influence" pushing out from there.

- The follow up "expansion" standalone title could then be the Victorian age.

- This is a tough nut to crack, but they need to better represent asynchronous warfare. Think guerrilla tactics exhibited by indigenous tribes in the Americas and Africa (example: the general can hide also). This will be needed for the Victorian period.

If they flesh out these points I will definitely look into getting the game. If they don't, eh...I'll probably just stick to Empire

[edyzmedieval]

Starting a bit earlier can cause some problems as it would lengthen the game and overimpose two distinct warfare periods that have things in common but many differences. It might be hard for more inexperienced TW players to adapt as the time goes on.

Borders, agreed here, your proposal sounds quite interesting. It would make agents much more important. Although to be fair, they were fairly important in ETW, because of the penalties that came with having two universities in one single province.

[Risasi]

What if it were separated into an early campaign and a late campaign, a la Medieval 2? And one could pick to start around 1560-1600'ish for pike and musket and glimmering cuirassiers and knights, or the late campaign which starts around 1700 where it's mostly line infantry musket and cannon.

Then the Victorian Era could still be an expansion pack that would turn the base game into early, middle and late campaigns. That way one could play through from the 17th century into the 19th century if they wanted, or just pick a period.

---

I did some more thinking upon their province system. They need to somehow represent balkanization.

Perhaps through tweaking their existing horde system they could represent a rival faction uprising and creating their own capital? (Or dead factions re-emerging) Thus splitting a region into two.
With border push different towns and farms would fall under the direct control of a faction, but via this border push strength, resource buildings could change hands to another faction. I think this is an argument for many smaller regions and capital cities and border control being a separate layer on the map from the resource layer.

This would add another dimension to the game because the diplomatic aspects of having to deal with uprisings from within your territories would need to be controlled. It also creates scenarios for rebellions and civil wars. Do I crush them? Vassalize them? Leave them alone and build an alliance and trade with them?

I think this would give a more organic feel to how empires and their control change geographically over time.