Visor's Small Mafia Game [Concluded]

[El Barto]

I don't think Stork is scum, but given how he's acted today, I can't blame anyone for voting him and I wouldn't care much if he died.

To conclude, I also think that Riedquat should be destroyed, and I'm rather upset he doesn't have any votes on him right now. Allow me to rectify that.

Vote: Riedquat

I tend to agree. And I owe him for lynching my shiny metal ass two games ago. vote: Riedquat

Maybe I'll just flip a coin.

FTFY.

Newyn isn't particularly jumpy.

Newyn strikes me as a particularly measured, deep thinking, not reveal your cards until the right moment, kind of player. As either alignment.

As town, he is uncannily like me: Will lie and create gambits that help town. However, he will do it in 10,000 fewer words, which makes it more effective.

As scum, I can figure out his plan. I can even explain his plan to you. But his plan will still work.

That's Newyn in a nutshell. I would love to town clear him. I don't know how to do that, but it would be a very strong move. If he lynches scum repeatedly, then him not being dead at final 3 should be a clue. But he should eat a murder instead by then.

If that helps you read him, great, if you have a better read on him than I do currently, and my experience with him is what he's playing into, then I apologize in advance.

Why don't you just vote him already, instead of hinting at the possibility of voting him?
FFos: Askthepizzaguy

(fish finger of suspicion doesn't break the counter script, right?)

[Askthepizzaguy]

In the context of my post, there isn't an indication that I even think he's scum. You did read my post before responding to it, I hope.

[atheotes]

I have been reading but somehow i feel like there is not much to look at.
Maybe i have to take another look later.
One thing i feel odd is the "vote with your town reads" logic. I think it is scummy tactic...atleast at this stage of the game.

[El Barto]

In the context of my post, there isn't an indication that I even think he's scum. You did read my post before responding to it, I hope.

Yes, and it is delightfully ambiguous.

[seireikhaan]

Oooookay, in summary, let's summarize:


Renata: Pretty friendly, much appreciated. Nice to see a recognizable face around. Could be the difference of 4-5 years, my advancing age, rampant alcoholism, or the PTSD of losing my Pokemon Moon nuzlocke team to the champion, but she seems a decent bit chattier than I remember for this early on. Reading the thread blind and knowing nothing about them, I liked the case against DP and would not fault people for voting for him. Mild town lead, seems a bit too chatty overall for mafia is my gut.

Stork: Something seems off here. Is english your first language? Tone and text are confusing me a bit. Tends to post in batches, which could be an excuse to appear visible without having to decide things at EOD. Discussion of Scarlett Aria kill is complete WIFOM and totally pointless as a defense. Mild, leaning to strong, scum lean.

Askthepizzaguy: Like I can read this guy. My best chance at deciphering pizza is with LYLO shenanigans. Next.

El Barto: Like I can read this guy either. Next.

Bsmith: Currently afk-ish in the Phillipines on business. Try to enjoy yourself if you can, and watch out for army majors. Anyways, not a ton to read on. Early joke on Al Sips, who I have some suspicion towards, raises a small flag, but that's about as much as I have. Slightly scum lean.

Monty: Both his original case and wanting to save DP(who he apparently can read better than me) seem authentic in my opinion. Could be a case of maf trying to build cred by "trying" to save a doomed townie, but that seems less likely(maybe 30-40% chance) than he simply had a better read on DP than those not familiar with him. That said, I'll need some better explanation on the vote for GH/me for being "polished". GH has played the game, strictly speaking, longer on the .org here any any present, so polish is.... bad? Clarification? Could be looking to get on a convenient wagon. Unsure lean, d1 seems likelier town, d2 confusing that.


Al Sips: Low relative activity. Post 330 strikes some scum radar for me - types words, but none of it really means much. Some admitted hesitance is fine, though. Saying he'd leave someone who came out town as someone to end game strikes me as a bit perfect information syndrome-y. Saying people he doesn't like doesn't add anything. Revenge voted for GH today adding a fairly vindictive "Planning to lynch another townie today, General?". Seems PIS-y, as well as possibly hoping to out someone on his trail if mafia. Strong scum lean.


Zack: Decent enough case on Newynn on day 1 and pursued it appropriately if he felt decently about it. I tend to agree with most of the posts he's made except on possible Stork Scum which might be a troubling sign. @Zack explanation for current day's vote? Decent town lean.

Choxorn: Lurking, relatively speaking. Ironically asks of Riedquat : "Did you just think you'd try to get a post in and make it look like you were doing something?" While himself being quite low poster. Gave a basic recount of his accusation of Riedquat's D1 post on D2, but it feels to me like the kind of thing I do on occasion as mafia where I just latch on to one bad post from someone relativley under the radar to get "free" votes off. Strong scum lean.

Newyn: Gave a weird read on the first page which he didn't follow on, and kinda lazed into a DP vote by the end of D1. Low-ish on activity. On the surface, seems scummy, but the reads cannot have been that serious so early in the first day, which makes me suspicious of those latching onto this case. Was correct in his argument with Stork about night choice kill and the wolf discussion. Decent town lean.

Atheotes: Early discussion of NK choice - possible maf trying to create false lead on his own kill? Hmm... Tone reads town, however, decent convicition in lynch choice. Read - null.

Riedquat: Goof vote on day 1, THE HORROR. On the surface, seems clearly scummy and lackadaisical. Well, one of those is true at least. Post asking himself to by lynched on day 2 is too much. Too aggressively off the wall. Strong town lean.

[seireikhaan]

Vote: Choxorn, based on my above post.

[Riedquat]

I tend to agree. And I owe him for lynching my shiny metal ass two games ago.

What are you playing at? You weren't lynched, you got killed and not by me...

[Montmorency]

That said, I'll need some better explanation on the vote for GH/me for being "polished". GH has played the game, strictly speaking, longer on the .org here any any present, so polish is.... bad?

GH only gave a very terse and noncommital response directly to questions over the DP lynch. He has talked about not much else. On its own not enough for me to hound him, but it did nothing to build confidence with regard to my particular argument for why his pushing the DP lynch could make him scummy.

Let's put that aside - GH couldn't commit because of whatever, and he needed a sub to step in - and start over.

So let me put my case afresh to you, Khaan/GH (without yet much adjustment from early form or newer considerations):

DP101 is a new player on the Org and in the other recent games he has been the clearest consensus town-read player. He continued that performance into this game, but with the twist that from early D1 votes from Choxorn (who later jumped around from there) and a firm attack from GH made DP101 the dominant wagon and discussion of the day. I found this to be premeditated, because a Day 1 blitzkrieg is a time when it is relatively easy to get a specific person lynched without a lot of effort or repercussions. By setting the tone for the day, Choxorn and/or GH did indeed accomplish this without having to lay down the line very much. The motivation for a quick removal of DP101 would simply be that he was most likely to wind up lock town for many players, and unkillable while other night targets remained through to LYLO.

[Riedquat]

Unvote

Vote: Choxorn

[Al Sipsclar]

Let's see if it works if I just post an updated list and don't edit the previous one.

This post is for the vote counting plugin.

Player list:

• Askthepizzaguy alias ATPG alias Pizza
• El Barto alias Bart alias Tak
• Dp101 alias dp
• Montmorency alias monty
• Riedquat alias kumquat alias reinquat alias reidquat alias quat
• BSmith
• Renata
• Choxorn alias chox
• seireikhaan alias Khaan alias khan alias GeneralHankerchief alias gh alias general alias hanky alias generalhandkerchief alias GeneralHandkerchief alias generalhankerchief
• Zack alias zack
• Stork
• Atheotes
• Al Sipsclar alias Al alias Sipsclar alias Sips alias Al Sip alias Sip alias Al Sips alias AlS
• Newyn
• Scarlett Aria alias Scarlett alias Aria alias Scarlet alias Scarlet Aria

[Al Sipsclar]

Nope, doesn't seem to be working. I guess I need permission from our glorious host to edit the original list, or he can just put the list in the OP.

Tally as of post 670:

Lynch votes
4 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Zack, Al Sipsclar, Montmorency, Renata)
3 votes: Choxorn (Newyn, Askthepizzaguy, seireikhaan)
2 votes: Riedquat (Choxorn, El Barto)
1 votes: Newyn (BSmith)
1 votes: Al Sipsclar (Riedquat)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Newyn

Newyn

Al Sipsclar

Al Sipsclar

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Montmorency

Stork

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Riedquat

Choxorn

Choxorn

Al Sipsclar

GeneralHankerchief

Riedquat

Choxorn

[Al Sipsclar]

Quat's vote is not picked up because "Unvote" and "Vote:" are within the same BOLD span.

[Al Sipsclar]

Al Sipsclar is scum for some crappy posts on day one. I don't know what to make of his incredibly different single post on day two.

I make crappy posts in any alignment and on any day.

I'm not against of removing myself from the equation, so if any of you has doubts just go ahead and lynch me now, the sooner, the painless it would be!

Hey, that's my line!

You and al sips should get together and lynch yourselves, but leave the rest of us out of it please.

[Al Sipsclar]

Al Sips: Low relative activity. Post 330 strikes some scum radar for me - types words, but none of it really means much. Some admitted hesitance is fine, though. Saying he'd leave someone who came out town as someone to end game strikes me as a bit perfect information syndrome-y. Saying people he doesn't like doesn't add anything. Revenge voted for GH today adding a fairly vindictive "Planning to lynch another townie today, General?". Seems PIS-y, as well as possibly hoping to out someone on his trail if mafia. Strong scum lean.

Hmm... Is khaan trying to convince me to move my vote? Hmm. Probably not.

Someone told me once, in another game, that those who claimed to see PIS, themselves had PIS. You have to have one to see one.

[Montmorency]

Someone told me once, in another game, that those who claimed to see PIS, themselves had PIS. You have to have one to see one.

You have to have one to see one have one to see one.

[Al Sipsclar]

You have to have one to see one have one to see one.

Yep, turtles all the way down.

[seireikhaan]

GH only gave a very terse and noncommital response directly to questions over the DP lynch. He has talked about not much else. On its own not enough for me to hound him, but it did nothing to build confidence with regard to my particular argument for why his pushing the DP lynch could make him scummy.

Let's put that aside - GH couldn't commit because of whatever, and he needed a sub to step in - and start over.

So let me put my case afresh to you, Khaan/GH (without yet much adjustment from early form or newer considerations):

DP101 is a new player on the Org and in the other recent games he has been the clearest consensus town-read player. He continued that performance into this game, but with the twist that from early D1 votes from Choxorn (who later jumped around from there) and a firm attack from GH made DP101 the dominant wagon and discussion of the day. I found this to be premeditated, because a Day 1 blitzkrieg is a time when it is relatively easy to get a specific person lynched without a lot of effort or repercussions. By setting the tone for the day, Choxorn and/or GH did indeed accomplish this without having to lay down the line very much. The motivation for a quick removal of DP101 would simply be that he was most likely to wind up lock town for many players, and unkillable while other night targets remained through to LYLO.

Alright. I don't really agree with it of course, but I at least get where you're coming from. Still, not knowing how DP plays, my blind read into the game was that he was a pretty decent lynch choice on day 1.

[seireikhaan]

Hmm... Is khaan trying to convince me to move my vote? Hmm. Probably not.

Someone told me once, in another game, that those who claimed to see PIS, themselves had PIS. You have to have one to see one.

Eh, not totally incorrect. Much like most tells and behaviors, it's easier to tell when you've done the blunder yourself. Definitely guilty of it in the past at points.

[Montmorency]

Khaan, how does this building Choxorn vs. GH/Khaan thunderdome interact with my holding one or both of GH/Khaan and Choxorn culpable?

At first I felt it foreclosed on the possibility of a m/m alignment, but now they're large and evenly-matched enough that it's plausible again.

If you and Choxorn are scum, who is your partner? If only Choxorn is scum, who are his partners?

[Renata]

"If you and Choxorn are scum, who is your partner," really Monty? Lol.

I'm feeling a lot better about the GH vote (and a lot worse about the choxorn one) after Khaan's post. I did not like that at all.

Are we freaking tied again? I think we are.

[Montmorency]

really Monty? Lol.

Think about it. It's legit.

[Renata]

I haven't seen anything that makes me push any of my town reads away from being town.

On the other hand, I don't have a strong suspect at the moment. Renata's case on Newyn seems fine.

I'll add pressure to Al Sipsclar until I can come up with a reason not to, or I find something stronger.

Vote: Al Sipsclar

Newyn case is fine.

I'm being super slow but I'm only just absorbing this now.

I kind of get what you mean here, but I'd think it's more important to try to get your scum suspect lynched than to try to create teams, particularly that early.

Was there something more compelling that I'm missing? Because I wouldn't be surprised.

Newyn case ('oh, that was your Newyn case?') is not fine.

Newyn isn't particularly jumpy.

Newyn strikes me as a particularly measured, deep thinking, not reveal your cards until the right moment, kind of player. As either alignment.

As town, he is uncannily like me: Will lie and create gambits that help town. However, he will do it in 10,000 fewer words, which makes it more effective.

As scum, I can figure out his plan. I can even explain his plan to you. But his plan will still work.

That's Newyn in a nutshell. I would love to town clear him. I don't know how to do that, but it would be a very strong move. If he lynches scum repeatedly, then him not being dead at final 3 should be a clue. But he should eat a murder instead by then.

If that helps you read him, great, if you have a better read on him than I do currently, and my experience with him is what he's playing into, then I apologize in advance.

'Let me explain Newyn to you all in 500 words of airy blather.'

The semi-contradiction is interesting to me, but the main ping here is the long post on Newyn's playstyle. This kind of detachment, I guess, from ongoing proceedings is something I think I've seen before.

[Renata]

Think about it. It's legit.

It may well be, but it's too much for my poor head. :)

[Choxorn]

Unvote
Vote: seireikhaan

For self-prez, and I also didn't like his long post a bit before this one. Apparently we're somehow scum together, though. Still not sure how that makes sense.

[Montmorency]

It may well be, but it's too much for my poor head. :)

...

'Let me explain Newyn to you all in 500 words of airy blather.'

I was more struck by the content, i.e. calling Newyn an effective liar as town, and the tantalized scum plan explanation.

[Choxorn]

[QUOTE=seireikhaan;2053726575]
Choxorn: Lurking, relatively speaking. Ironically asks of Riedquat : "Did you just think you'd try to get a post in and make it look like you were doing something?" While himself being quite low poster.

I wasn't voting him for low posting, I was voting him because I thought his no lynch vote was bad, his reaction to my voting him was worse, and he looked like he was trying too hard to avoid ruffling any feathers.

[Renata]

Glad to see you, choxorn.

[atheotes]

i have never seen Khaan post so much! I did not think GH was scummy. and nothing yet from Khaan to change my mind.
Vote: Choxorn

[Renata]

I note there's no reason given that choxorn is scummy.

[atheotes]

I note there's no reason given that choxorn is scummy.

Nope. Dont find him towny either.