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Thread: Representative Democracy [Concluded]

  1. #31
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief View Post
    You're perfectly welcome to put up an alternative choice and advocate for him/her. This is a democracy, after all.
    Would you like to be Chancellor?
    Vitiate Man.

  2. #32
    Member Member Cass_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    ZACK! ZACK! ZACK! ZACK! ZACK! ZACK!

    Zack?

    TWTBAW?

  3. #33
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    Expertly.
    All I want is a general plan for what you would do and an explaination for how it will benefit town more than wolves. Without that I will not elect you.

  4. #34
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Rally 2100 Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Ninja Turtles 1 Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Would you like to be Chancellor?
    I would not decline the position if it was offered to me, however, I would rather see Zack as Chancellor.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  5. #35
    Member Member Cass_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    All I want is a general plan for what you would do and an explaination for how it will benefit town more than wolves. Without that I will not elect you.
    popcorn.gif

    popcorn.gif

    Dp101 Can I get a similar plan and explanation from you?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by GH
    I would not decline the position if it was offered to me
    We might consider lynching him tomorrow.

    Elect me on D2 to lynch GH!
    Vitiate Man.

  7. #37
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cass_ View Post
    popcorn.gif

    popcorn.gif

    Dp101 Can I get a similar plan and explanation from you?
    Well, I haven't really planned one out because I was not planning on running, but basically what I was thinking was early on to split people into as many districts as possible, to make as many votes visible as possible. Then, once we have something resembling information/when I need to split them, I would make a small number (probably 5) of large districts, spreading the people I find scummy around so they can't control a district, and thus hopefully only let town vote. Probably terrible, but we are all experimenting here.

  8. #38
    Member Member Cass_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief View Post
    ~~~An Appreciation of One of Our Betters~~~

    Friends, Orgahs, fellow countrymen. I stand before you all today with the intent to extol the many virtues of one of our number. You may be surprised by whom I about to speak of, but the reason for my doing so is simple: Among his many admirable qualities, his humility perhaps shines most gloriously of them all. Thus the task falls upon me to wax poetic about the man who deserves all of the accolades we can think of. I speak, of course, about Zack.

    If you're not familiar with Zack, perhaps you might know him by one of his alter egos. Zaccino, ZackCFC, he even briefly went as Zackbeard in a very successful tenure aboard the legendary vessel Presence where, of course, he was immediately named Captain and steered the ship home and presided over the smallest loss of life in all three of the ship's great voyages. His gold total accumulated from that expedition still singlehandedly pays for the satisfaction - and pleasure! - of many a night worker in Nassau even today, and his name still rightly strikes fear in the heart of many a Frenchman.

    He is a decorated and exemplary host, welding together many universes in his famous None Shall Pass series with the raw power of an overclocked jackhammer yet also the fine precision of a razor for ants. In terms of hosting games set in an established universe - which I notoriously despise - there is perhaps no finer and more talented figure at this than Zack. His Futurama game aptly demonstrates his skill at this always-difficult task.

    Zack's skill as a player is also, of course, unmatched. Truly Visor's better half, Zack has weaved through the myriad of thankless roles he has been assigned over the years, always cutting the most dashing figure on the dance floor that is our lives. He also made the finals of the annual Mafia Championships a year before such noted competitors as GeneralHankerchief, Apoc, and Newcomb, and did better than Askthepizzaguy, who could only muster up a N1 death while Zack, as part of the winning mafia team, gentlemanly subbed out on D2 in order to give the doomed town at least a fighting chance.

    Yes, truly Zack is a shining example and role model to all of us on all possible fronts that you can think of. While I, GeneralHankerchief, may have been around the longest, while Sasaki Kojiro was the most influential of us in the early days, while Askthepizzaguy may have more posts, and while seireikhaan may be my best internet friend (and occasional secret dalliance partner), there is one person who shines above them - and us - all. I speak of the one and only...

    Heart-stopping,

    Pants-dropping,

    House-rocking,

    Earth-quaking,

    Booty-shaking,

    Logic-taking,

    Looooooove-making...

    The one...
    The only...

    The great...

    ZACK!!!

    Long may he grace us with his presence!
    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    Probably not. I'm personally all in favor of allowing the scum to lead us though. That's how these games usually go. vote: Zack

    For my local district, it must of course be the only person in the group I've played with before, excepting choxorn, who should be immediately disqualified for obvious reasons. The one, the only, vote:Dp101!

    vote: El Barto can die.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief View Post
    All of that aside, Zack has shown to be a pretty damn effective town leader in the past, so I'd legitimately be fine with him becoming Chancellor to start the game. Naturally, I'd be happy to serve as his underling.

    Vote: Zack

    Vote: GH
    Quote Originally Posted by Choxorn View Post
    My fellow Earthicans! Today, we face many crises, from the alcohol-guzzling robots worsening global warming, to the threat of invasion from the Omicron Persei Eightians, to that ominous looking rip in the universe, to time travel paradoxes. Only one man is qualified to lead us against these struggles. I present to you: The Mighty and Fabulously Sexy Zaccino!

    Vote: Zack
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    Omg what is this Zack parade!?

    Seriously!?

    *barf*
    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    Well, I haven't really planned one out because I was not planning on running, but basically what I was thinking was early on to split people into as many districts as possible, to make as many votes visible as possible. Then, once we have something resembling information/when I need to split them, I would make a small number (probably 5) of large districts, spreading the people I find scummy around so they can't control a district, and thus hopefully only let town vote. Probably terrible, but we are all experimenting here.

    I follow the first bit (splitting into as many groups as possible to start)

    Torn on the rest.

    Is it a good idea to let people you find scummy be involved in/influence the vote of many districts rather than control a single District's vote?

  9. #39
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Strange to think that the entirety of the game will proceed with just 3 or 5 effective votes - other than perhaps one day with 7 or 8 votes.

    What we should focus on then is managing the representatives' votes and obliging them to canvass in such a way as to avert sheeping and gutsing. Although that can't actually be enjoined in the given system...

    They ass trustee!
    Vitiate Man.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Is it a good idea to let people you find scummy be involved in/influence the vote of many districts rather than control a single District's vote?
    A single representative's vote is more powerful than any dozen inter-district votes.
    Vitiate Man.

  11. #41
    Member Member Cass_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Boooo MQ
    @Dp101 ignore the top stuff
    @Zack, have more popcorn cooking waiting on your reactions wrt everyone's early thoughts/votes/supports/pushes on you whenever you're ready.

    munch.gif

  12. #42
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cass_ View Post
    I follow the first bit (splitting into as many groups as possible to start)

    Torn on the rest.

    Is it a good idea to let people you find scummy be involved in/influence the vote of many districts rather than control a single District's vote?
    The fact that they can influence the vote means that we will be able to see what more people are voting for, we can't put them all into one district at this point because we still need to figure out who the mafia are, which is the point of the small-district stage.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Unless you are a duly elected Representative of a District, your lynch vote will not be counted. You still might want to have your vote on record, in case you suddenly got elected to represent your district. Also to avoid dire consequences.
    Remember guys, our lynch-votes don't matter. It will be interesting to see whether this will make diffusion more reliable for scum, or less. How much will "record" really come to mean?
    Vitiate Man.

  14. #44
    boom bye zack Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    All I want is a general plan for what you would do and an explaination for how it will benefit town more than wolves. Without that I will not elect you.
    it depends entirely on the gamestate so asking me ten minutes into d1 is dumb

  15. #45
    boom bye zack Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cass_ View Post
    Boooo MQ
    @Dp101 ignore the top stuff
    @Zack, have more popcorn cooking waiting on your reactions wrt everyone's early thoughts/votes/supports/pushes on you whenever you're ready.

    munch.gif
    huh?

  16. #46
    Member Member Cass_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    A single representative's vote is more powerful than any dozen inter-district votes.
    Then don't you want as many District votes to be as 'pure' as possible?

    At least in the beginning of the game, if you have a large number of districts, and confine the players you find scummiest to one district/vote only, then their power/potential influence is only on one vote versus the many you find Towny?

    Tldr: Internal district influences will matter because they add up to form the final votes.

  17. #47
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cass_ View Post
    Then don't you want as many District votes to be as 'pure' as possible?

    At least in the beginning of the game, if you have a large number of districts, and confine the players you find scummiest to one district/vote only, then their power/potential influence is only on one vote versus the many you find Towny?

    Tldr: Internal district influences will matter because they add up to form the final votes.
    In the early game, confining the scummiest people to one district may reduce their early voting power, but early on the town is very misinformed and probably won't catch mafia anyway. Better to allow the mafia to control the lynch a bit in order to hold the accountable for it.

  18. #48
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    it depends entirely on the gamestate so asking me ten minutes into d1 is dumb
    It was not 10 minutes in, and anyway I was not asking for a detailed list, just some theorycrafting.

  19. #49
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cass_ View Post
    Then don't you want as many District votes to be as 'pure' as possible?

    At least in the beginning of the game, if you have a large number of districts, and confine the players you find scummiest to one district/vote only, then their power/potential influence is only on one vote versus the many you find Towny?

    Tldr: Internal district influences will matter because they add up to form the final votes.
    Because "many" means 5, this isn't a sound approach. What will become the driver is as-yet unknown, but in principle your suggestion is not how it can or should work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101
    In the early game, confining the scummiest people to one district may reduce their early voting power, but early on the town is very misinformed and probably won't catch mafia anyway. Better to allow the mafia to control the lynch a bit in order to hold the accountable for it.
    Why do you think they will or would want to control the lynch?
    Vitiate Man.

  20. #50
    Member Member Cass_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    huh?
    Your opinions on other player's pushes/reactions concerning you this early could be valuable later on. Effectively, I'm watching that space to try and figure things out.

    I accidently MQ'd a whole heap of posts relevant to that in the post prior to the one you quoted. Hence the 'Boo MQ' comment and the explanation.

    Wot?

  21. #51
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Why do you think they will or would want to control the lynch?
    Mafia always will try to some extent, in case town randomly finds mafia and they need to save them. The more lynch votes we have, the more data points we have to look at later as to who exactly tried to swing the lynch.

  22. #52
    boom bye zack Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    In the early game, confining the scummiest people to one district may reduce their early voting power, but early on the town is very misinformed and probably won't catch mafia anyway. Better to allow the mafia to control the lynch a bit in order to hold the accountable for it.
    is that how you want me to align districts?

  23. #53
    boom bye zack Member Zack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cass_ View Post
    Your opinions on other player's pushes/reactions concerning you this early could be valuable later on. Effectively, I'm watching that space to try and figure things out.

    I accidently MQ'd a whole heap of posts relevant to that in the post prior to the one you quoted. Hence the 'Boo MQ' comment and the explanation.

    Wot?
    what pushes lol

  24. #54
    Facilitating Understanding Member Dp101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    is that how you want me to align districts?
    I wouldn't be proposing it as a potential plan if I didn't. The more mafia that get elected to vote in the actual lunch, the more mafia that have to justify their votes, and the more that we can catch.

  25. #55
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    Mafia always will try to some extent, in case town randomly finds mafia and they need to save them. The more lynch votes we have, the more data points we have to look at later as to who exactly tried to swing the lynch.
    Remember that, beyond electing the voters, Joe Blows can only make public arguments. Because there is a layer of disconnect between vote and argument here, and because the votes are so few, relying on a calculus oriented towards more typical games won't fit here.

    The big question will be, who will receive cases, and why?* I may well be wrong, but I suspect a large random curve.

    *In general sense, not in connection to scum motivations
    Vitiate Man.

  26. #56
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    Chancellor fun aside, my eye is really on the district reps and what they do with the votes from the rest of us. So Dp, I'm voting for you for rep currently. What are your ideas there?

  27. #57
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Mechanic suggestion for future: Representatives can communicate privately with the Chancellor.
    Vitiate Man.

  28. #58
    Member Member Sooh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    3 districts, 1 mafia voter, 2 townie voters
    3 districts, 1 town voter, 2 mafia voters
    3 districts, 3 town voters
    3 districts, 3 mafia voters

    I don't know that I'd be able to distinguish one from the other here based on votes, but perhaps I'm missing something. Seems to me like scum would be able to easily slip under the radar in either of these configurations. What am I not seeing?

    Not sure a bigger selection would be better either, I just don't really understand the sort of techniques that would be applicable to scum here.

  29. #59
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy [In Play]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dp101 View Post
    I wouldn't be proposing it as a potential plan if I didn't. The more mafia that get elected to vote in the actual lunch, the more mafia that have to justify their votes, and the more that we can catch.
    Don't you think that us ordinary non-reps will have to justify our votes as well? (We don't get to just not have one -- see rules.) I'd say that any rep who didn't demand some kind of accountability from their home-district voters isn't doing their job.

  30. #60
    Member Member dicetosser1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Representative Democracy

    vote cass

    shes thinking already. I can see the wheels turning.
    @cass You are going to get too wrapped up in this game I can see it a mile off. No posting after 10pm or I start dobbing to ure better half

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