Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[El Barto]

It's not as if people voting means that you have a democracy.

[Dp101]

I don't really give a shit about "democratic representation" i just want villagers in those spots

And that is the crux of my argument, if we only elect town then how can we find mafia? Votes not matching claimed opinions is a common behaviour from mafia, but with no vote they can bus their buddies with no need for excuses as to why they aren't voting them.

[Cass_]

visor and cass should be reps, very likely villagers

Initial YOLO lean (and I'm not caught up) on Visor is Towny start.

IF that's right, then this post looks good for Zack, don't see much scummy motivation in calling for other District leaders to be Town.

[El Barto]

Wait, Dp. Are you seriously stating that you want to put the mafia in charge of the lynch? I might have to read the OP to get to grips with this.

[El Barto]

Initial YOLO lean (and I'm not caught up) on Visor is Towny start.

IF that's right, then this post looks good for Zack, don't see much scummy motivation in calling for other District leaders to be Town.

Are you hardclaiming townie? ;)

[Cass_]

And that is the crux of my argument, if we only elect town then how can we find mafia? Votes not matching claimed opinions is a common behaviour from mafia, but with no vote they can bus their buddies with no need for excuses as to why they aren't voting them.

Waaaaiiiiiiiit, what?

We should only elect players we think are Town as representatives...

Just make sure everyone in a District votes.

[Dp101]

Wait, Dp. Are you seriously stating that you want to put the mafia in charge of the lynch? I might have to read the OP to get to grips with this.

I am not saying they should be in charge, I just want scummy people to have to match their opinions with votes for the first day or two so we can find contradictions. This is why I want more fewer districts, so we can force more people to make a choice.

[Dp101]

Waaaaiiiiiiiit, what?

We should only elect players we think are Town as representatives...

Just make sure everyone in a District votes.

But then who are we going to vote on? How are we going to find mafia?

[El Barto]

OK, then vote me for everything. You know I'm scummy as a townie and can't ever justify my actions.

[Jabbz]

Hi Jabbz! vote: Jabbz

For an innocuous "here's the state of the game, yup" intro.

If you ignore \ my take on Cass' towniness and suitability for chancellor, my observation of why more groups is better (which hadn't meed made to that point) and my problems with Zack, sure.

[Cass_]

Are you hardclaiming townie? ;)

Hardclaim Townie

Yup :D

[Cass_]

But then who are we going to vote on? How are we going to find mafia?

How do you find Mafia in a normal game?

Always vote red with that.

Put Towny people in a position that allows Town reads maximum power over lynch. Trust them to make a good call.

Analyse discussions and votes within Districs and by the leader when you get a flip.

Imo.

[Jabbz]

1. So lots of people early voting Zack for Chancellor makes him the most likely scum and hence your vote? Or something else?

Imo the bold should only apply in the context of the current game and once there's reason to think those types of players are Town ITT.

2. Why Dp101 over yourself for District Rep, beyond following trend?

FTR probably early for a Chancellor vote on me if those are your reasons. I'm not sold on how to set the Districts either way at this point and I'm ok at rapid possibilities but awful at actually making decisions when lots of possible outcomes are involved.

My vote for Zack is a combination of the early jump on him making me leery combined with the way he talks about using the chancellorship. As most votes are during this stage, it's just a pressure vote.

Why Dp over myself, I don't know anyone here, so I have no reads on any of you, except for Dp. I feel putting myself in the position of power doesn't benefit the group in any way, and this gives me someone that I've watched in a few games (as host no less) and so the possibility of getting additional information out of him increases as he becomes more high profile. Basically, I'm working with what I have.

As to you, currently it appears to stand between you and Zack, who I don't want to get the job for the above mentioned reasons. IF another valid option comes along, I'll be happy to evaluate it, but again, you work with what you've got.

[Zack]

"the way he talks about using the chancellorship" ??

also lolpressurevotes

[Jabbz]

But then who are we going to vote on? How are we going to find mafia?

It's not as if no one else is making votes and arguments to sway the representatives. Just because you don't cast the final determining vote doesn't mean you aren't leaving a trail. Further, its not like we only argue in our own group, unless I missed some huge mechanic somewhere. Everyone will see the arguments made by others, its just that, theoretically at least, your own rep pays more attention.

[Dp101]

How do you find Mafia in a normal game?

Always vote red with that.

Put Towny people in a position that allows Town reads maximum power over lynch. Trust them to make a good call.

Analyse discussions and votes within Districs and by the leader when you get a flip.

Imo.

One of the main ways that I have not used, but want to try because it seems effective is analysing vote patterns, which we cannot do under your plan.

[Jabbz]

"the way he talks about using the chancellorship" ??

also lolpressurevotes

Cool, so you guys have a different style, that's fine mate. We use them, often to good effect. If that bugs you, you're welcome to deal with it. As to using the chancellorship, someone tried to nail you down about that, and you started talking about going with your gut, and laid out some tentative plans for how you would deal with splitting the groups up. I found it did not inspire me. I'm pretty sure I articulated that above.

[Zack]

Cool, so you guys have a different style, that's fine mate. We use them, often to good effect. If that bugs you, you're welcome to deal with it. As to using the chancellorship, someone tried to nail you down about that, and you started talking about going with your gut, and laid out some tentative plans for how you would deal with splitting the groups up. I found it did not inspire me. I'm pretty sure I articulated that above.

vote for wolves not "pressure"

i did not mention gut anywhere

i don't think i gave any hint of plans when you made your big intro post

you are full of it

[El Barto]

Jabbz, this is totalwar.org; here we do not behave seriously on D1. It is a longstanding tradition.

[Cass_]

Dp, maybe? I don't like the defeatism, but so far he's about what I would have expected from last game.

Is that why you have him voted as representative?

Why not yourself?

[Visor]

The problem with pressure votes is that they don't work a few hours into d1 of a no maj game

[Zack]

Jabbz, this is totalwar.org; here we do not behave seriously on D1. It is a longstanding tradition.

ignore this

some people do actually try to win instead of just troll

[Visor]

Jabbz, this is totalwar.org; here we do not behave seriously on D1. It is a longstanding tradition.

No, thats hogwash

You don't, some of us do

[El Barto]

I dunno, I won last game playing like that.

[El Barto]

Hah! See? You can't deny it.

[Jabbz]

vote for wolves not "pressure"

i did not mention gut anywhere

i don't think i gave any hint of plans when you made your big intro post

you are full of it

Actually, my bad, somehow I transposed you and Dp101. My apologies, my only excuse is I was bouncing back and forth between reading and cleaning. I still don't like the jump on you by the masses, but obviously the other part no longer stands. I need to go back now and reread what you said about it instead of Dp, but I'm likely still going to be pushing for Cass because no one else seems to be systematically approaching the idea, and I like that style.

As to D1, there isn't much you can do anyway, so yeah, pressure votes are fine. There is almost no way to tell a wolf on day 1 unless they make a drastic mistake. Instead, all you can do is get people to be on record as much as possible on a broad swath of topics, so you have information to cross check in future days. If you have some magic wand that lets you know for a fact who a wolf is on day 1, then I'd love to learn about it, until then however, I'll stick with my pressure votes.

[Montmorency]

Indeed, I lobby whoever reps to lynch Visor. Most serious candidate to die D1.

[El Barto]

Indeed, I lobby whoever reps to lynch Visor. Most serious candidate to die D1.

So you want me to kill Visor in exchange for your vote? Hmmm-mmmh. This is interesting. I have Renata's destruction as my policy because she voted for me, but she is young and young people make mistakes. Visor has gotten old from trying to contradict me and this thing can be used to justifiably lynch him. Do I get any chocolate bars out of this?

[Montmorency]

So you want me to kill Visor in exchange for your vote? Hmmm-mmmh. This is interesting. I have Renata's destruction as my policy because she voted for me, but she is young and young people make mistakes. Visor has gotten old from trying to contradict me and this thing can be used to justifiably lynch him. Do I get any chocolate bars out of this?

You're not in my district. Visor will be elected in your district, and if DP and GH don't vote him lynched he will kill you dead.

[Cass_]

One of the main ways that I have not used, but want to try because it seems effective is analysing vote patterns, which we cannot do under your plan.

Why not?

If everyone votes red at some point you just

How do you find Mafia in a normal game?

Always vote red with that.

Put Towny people in a position that allows Town reads maximum power over lynch. Trust them to make a good call.

Analyse discussions and votes within Districs and by the leader when you get a flip.

Imo.

I think that plan is fine?

Putting players you find scummy in actual power when you're only aiming to take out Scum is not a good idea. If you're lucky the vote they cast might convince you more that they're scum, but a majority of the time from their/scum perspective it's likely going to cost the Town a Townie so ... not worth it.

Plus, if you call the Districts Democratic and elect scummy players as the representatives they can more easily hide behind their vote being 'what the District wanted' at any point.