French Presidential Election

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Back to the topic:
it seems Fillon has a scandal with his wife to deal with which may affect the election outcome.
http://www.france24.com/en/20170124-...paid-wife-aide
A chance for Macron?

Oh, a money scandal. I thought it was something earth shattering, like a French politician preferring their spouse over having a lover....

[Brenus]

"Oh, a money scandal. I thought it was something earth shattering, like a French politician preferring their spouse over having a lover...." French think that bedroom stories are private matter and should stay private.
It always backfire in France for politicians to use family stories (or lovers, or mistresses).
We are not obsess/shock by sexe so what consenting adults do is their problem...
Now, as some learned, using prostitutes or forcing a woman to sexe is other matter...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

"Oh, a money scandal. I thought it was something earth shattering, like a French politician preferring their spouse over having a lover...." French think that bedroom stories are private matter and should stay private.
It always backfire in France for politicians to use family stories (or lovers, or mistresses).
We are not obsess/shock by sexe so what consenting adults do is their problem...
Now, as some learned, using prostitutes or forcing a woman to sexe is other matter...

Yes, well I sometimes wonder why you even still have marriage in France...

The French seem immune to scandal though, of the last two heads of the IMF one escaped a sexual assault charge purely due to the Statute of Limitations (and the French willingness to ignore "bedroom antics") and the current one has been convicted of Negligence in a public office. No punishment though, even though in any other country it would be "Misconduct" at least, and she'd be expected to resign.

But no, in France it's acceptable for her to continue running the IMF.

[Tristuskhan]

No it is not. Acceptable. Both Strauss-Kahn and Lagarde are politically dead here. She -who wants to keep on giving her best to the whole world - will stay abroad, good riddence. And DSK is back to the vacuum he should never had left.

Both would be in jail in the USA, for quite long, I know. And we have other important figures like that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Lauvergeon
She is bad, very bad in every domain. Areva will become an awful burdain for the state soon, very soon... And she's still here, lying and maneuvering, overpaid while leading a strategic industry to a collapse.

And we can make a whole gallery of such people in France. Fillon and his wife? Uh? The upper class is made of thieves? How can it be so?


Oh and marriage still exists, yes. Just to make proof we're not smarter than others.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No it is not. Acceptable. Both Strauss-Kahn and Lagarde are politically dead here. She -who wants to keep on giving her best to the whole world - will stay abroad, good riddence. And DSK is back to the vacuum he should never had left.

Both would be in jail in the USA, for quite long, I know. And we have other important figures like that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Lauvergeon
She is bad, very bad in every domain. Areva will become an awful burdain for the state soon, very soon... And she's still here, lying and maneuvering, overpaid while leading a strategic industry to a collapse.

And we can make a whole gallery of such people in France. Fillon and his wife? Uh? The upper class is made of thieves? How can it be so?


Oh and marriage still exists, yes. Just to make proof we're not smarter than others.

If the French President and the French press have not demanded her resignation (I confess my French is poor, I do not read the French press) then they have accepted her running the IMF and her position must, therefore, be acceptable.

As regards DSK, I was referring to his alleged assault of Tristane Bannon, which was first reported in 2007 before he became head of the IMF but which was apparently treated with a collective Gallic Shrug until he was prosecuted in the US. Supposedly her mother persuaded her not to press charges, which would make her mother an absolute monster.

I say "alleged" only because he has not been prosecuted and convicted.

Here an accusation of that type would have been investigated as soon as it was made, the Police would have been hammering on doors demanding to know why her mother had persuaded her to keep quiet for five years.

Of course, we have no time-bar on accusations of sexual assault here - so he'd also be prosecuted and convicted even in 2011.

And why in the name of God is Lagarde not in gaol?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

If the French President and the French press have not demanded her resignation (I confess my French is poor, I do not read the French press) then they have accepted her running the IMF and her position must, therefore, be acceptable.

As regards DSK, I was referring to his alleged assault of Tristane Bannon, which was first reported in 2007 before he became head of the IMF but which was apparently treated with a collective Gallic Shrug until he was prosecuted in the US. Supposedly her mother persuaded her not to press charges, which would make her mother an absolute monster.

I say "alleged" only because he has not been prosecuted and convicted.

Here an accusation of that type would have been investigated as soon as it was made, the Police would have been hammering on doors demanding to know why her mother had persuaded her to keep quiet for five years.

Of course, we have no time-bar on accusations of sexual assault here - so he'd also be prosecuted and convicted even in 2011.

And why in the name of God is Lagarde not in gaol?

For such a solidly socialist country, France is surprisingly "laissez-faire" about some aspects of their leaders' conduct.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Let's be honest - France is a very sexist place.

Being a fat man? Fine.

Being a fat woman? On no!

Christine Lagarde is, I believe, notable for being - well - rather tan for a Frenchwoman. Even as girls French females tend to have greater poise, elegance and self-possession than, say, English or American ones. This is a whispered subject among English boys on holiday but quite how it is achieved is a mystery believed known only to the women of France.

[Tristuskhan]

Let's be honest - France is a very sexist place.
....
Christine Lagarde is, I believe, notable for being - well - rather tan for a Frenchwoman. Even as girls French females tend to have greater poise, elegance and self-possession than, say, English or American ones. This is a whispered subject among English boys on holiday but quite how it is achieved is a mystery believed known only to the women of France.

Do english boys know how to whisper? That's not what we ear when we see them on holidays. English boys on holidays are on par whith southern french when it comes to womanizing. Those qualities of french ladies you admire, are just adaptation to a very very rude environment.

And Mrs Lagarde boasts à very shocking nasty artificial tanning, like many ladies of her caste.

Finally, let's be honest; France is dramatically sexist, has always been and is getting worse for ten years now.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Do english boys know how to whisper? That's not what we ear when we see them on holidays. English boys on holidays are on par whith southern french when it comes to womanizing. Those qualities of french ladies you admire, are just adaptation to a very very rude environment.

I did mean "boys" as in 14-15. Young English men abroad are, frankly, dreadful, and very loud.

English girls dress terribly though, they either have far too much makeup or they wear far too little. They get uproariously drunk then stumble down the road carrying their shoes shouting abuse. If any English boy (who they know) tries to help them home they will often attack him with said shoes.

They get over it in their mid-20's and start acting like grown-ups.

And Mrs Lagarde boasts à very shocking nasty artificial tanning, like many ladies of her caste.

I'm rather bad at judging French class, is she from some French very of "New Money."

The tan is very, as we would say here, "striking" especially given that she does not dye her hair.

Finally, let's be honest; France is dramatically sexist, has always been and is getting worse for ten years now.

France is wonderful if you are French, and conform to the correct definition of "French".

[Tristuskhan]

I'm rather bad at judging French class, is she from some French very of "New Money."

Rather "Old Money". Her father's balls were wrapped in cashmere. And his father's, etc, etc...

[Brenus]

"France is wonderful if you are French, and conform to the correct definition of "French"." Definition that no french agree upon. What is to be French. In england, big debate of Englishness... So I could say easily England is wonderful if you are English, and conform to the definition of "English". Can do this for probably all countries...
About Lagarde, she is the boss of the IMF as she was protected by the USA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Lagarde
So don't blame France for this one. She was one of the worst Minister of Finances France ever had and still is allowed to give her opinion about finances...

About marriage, do you have evidence that rate of divorces, infidelity or affairs are more numerous in France than say USA, Germany, Sweden or Italy? Not really important for me, as marriage being a social contract, but just to break the idea that marriage is a protection against these behaviors...
This map says USA is in the lead:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...-divorce-rate/

"Let's be honest - France is a very sexist place:
Being a fat man? Fine.
Being a fat woman? On no!" And to be a fat woman is accepted where, exactly? I mean in the "western civilisation" world? All our countries and sexists, misogenistic, and the US new President is a real good example of this, and how his speeches about women were gladly accepted by his voters.

"Christine Lagarde is, I believe, notable for being - well - rather tan for a Frenchwoman." Don't take it the wrong way, but you can't in one sentence reproach to the French to have a correct definition of French, then to apply the definition you think is to be French. So C Lagarde being French couldn't be tanned.
So, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachida_Dati is not French beccause, well she is tanned...
As I said, no one agree on a "French" definition.

"For such a solidly socialist country, France is surprisingly "laissez-faire" about some aspects of their leaders' conduct." If Holland was a socialist we would know about it... He had a worst social/economical policy than Sarkozy... Reason why now the period is known as Sarkolland.
The planing past in France was due more to Gal de Gaulle time (and gave fantastic results, btw) than the "socialist" time that existed only in imagination...

[Gilrandir]

About marriage, do you have evidence that rate of divorces, infidelity or affairs are more numerous in France than say USA, Germany, Sweden or Italy?

And I believe one can inquire in kind:

About Lagarde... She was one of the worst Minister of Finances France ever had...

Do you have any figures that can serve as evidence to prove your claim?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Rather "Old Money". Her father's balls were wrapped in cashmere. And his father's, etc, etc...

Really, I find that odd, but then I'm English. I find many things odd. Here "old money" never tans.

"France is wonderful if you are French, and conform to the correct definition of "French"." Definition that no french agree upon. What is to be French. In england, big debate of Englishness... So I could say easily England is wonderful if you are English, and conform to the definition of "English". Can do this for probably all countries...

We've had this discussion before...

You will recall, Bretons are not French - unless they speak French and not Breton. You're also using a false equivalence as England is a Nation but not a State, the correct comparison is Franc and Britain. Speaking English is not, in fact, a pre-requisite for being British and that's even without considering recent immigrants.

About Lagarde, she is the boss of the IMF as she was protected by the USA

She is not, DSK was not. The French Government (Judiciary) chose not to impose a sentence on her.

About marriage, do you have evidence that rate of divorces, infidelity or affairs are more numerous in France than say USA, Germany, Sweden or Italy? Not really important for me, as marriage being a social contract, but just to break the idea that marriage is a protection against these behaviors...
This map says USA is in the lead:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...-divorce-rate/

The point is not that French Politicians frequently do not contract marriages, it's that in most of the rest of the world infidelity usually leads to a resignation but in France it does not. Infidelity is a very intimate form of dishonesty and dishonesty is usually considered a quality that bars one from any political office.

And to be a fat woman is accepted where, exactly? I mean in the "western civilisation" world? All our countries and sexists, misogenistic, and the US new President is a real good example of this, and how his speeches about women were gladly accepted by his voters.

Italy, Spain, Germany, the UK. Admittedly young women are usually expected to be thin, but then young men are usually expected to be fit and strong as well. In much of Europe it is accepted that "matrons" put on weight after they have their second or third child. Depending on who you ask in Italy or Sapin you might conclude that all married women should be fat as a married woman who is still thin must either be poor and undernourished or unhappy and looking to ditch her husband for a better one.

Don't take it the wrong way, but you can't in one sentence reproach to the French to have a correct definition of French, then to apply the definition you think is to be French. So C Lagarde being French couldn't be tanned.
So, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachida_Dati is not French beccause, well she is tanned...
As I said, no one agree on a "French" definition.

You have misinterpreted my point - as Tristuskhan pointed our Lagarde's tan appears to be fake, or cultivated in a tanning bed at least. I am not saying she is not French, I intimated that the way she presents herself, i.e her personal grooming habits are at odds with what is characteristically seen as French internationally, and (I believe) in France also. She is inelegant.

Rachida Dati is rather the opposite. Indeed, despite being North African a quick Google search for recent images shows her to be less tan than Lagarde. In fact, I would say she looks as though she generally avoids the sun given how pale she appears for someone of North African descent. That would be deemed characteristically French here.

So I'm afraid you've just proved my point - in contrast to other Frenchwomen in the public eye Lagarde seem characteristically un-French, at least from this side of the channel.

[Brenus]

"You will recall, Bretons are not French - unless they speak French and not Breton." Ahh, this conversation... It was about local languages and the fact you pretended there were banned in France as you are not aware there are still freely spoken and written in France? Or the one when we discuss your point of view that French was the extension of Paris original language therefore impose by force? I might be mistaken, but I (vaguely) remember telling you than Corsican, Alsatian and others languages are still used in France.
French Army marching:
https://youtu.be/gDTr9CGdUOs
Just not as an official language, so they have no value as legal documents. I also very vaguely remember telling you you should stop having sources in the extreme right literature, especially the britain one... I probably told you that to be French is a political agreement as it not based on languages (as we spoke several and others countries speak French), not thanks to a holy land as French borders did changed during History, not based on religions as France has no official religion and has a lot of them including the 3 monotheistic ones (and sub-divisions)...
And all this have what to do with the actual topic?

"Infidelity is a very intimate form of dishonesty and dishonesty is usually considered a quality that bars one from any political office." That is yours "values" not nime. I don't see why stealing money or evading taxes is less dishonest than having an affair, at least the last one is between consenting adult and cost nothing to the community..
And in France infidelity is not an offense, nor in UK, USA and others civilized countries, contrary to stealing, blackmail and embezzlement. So barring someone for something legal is fine with you...

"Speaking English is not, in fact, a pre-requisite for being British and that's even without considering recent immigrants."
in https://www.gov.uk
Become a British citizen:
2. If your spouse is a British citizen
If you’re married to, or the civil partner of, a British citizen, you can apply for citizenship if:
you’re 18 or over
you’re of sound mind, you’re able to think and make decisions for yourself
you’re of good character, for example you don’t have a serious or recent criminal record
you’ve met the knowledge of English and life in the UK requirements
you’ve been granted indefinite leave to stay in the UK (this means there’s no specific date that you have to leave) or permanent residence if you’re an EEA national (and you have a permanent residence card or document that shows you have permanent residence)
in
You should speak with my Indian Colleague when she is told she is not British as she even not speak english... It brings tears in her eyes. When someone tell me this, I just tell them it is quite right as I have no intention to become british any way...

"Depending on who you ask in Italy or Sapin you might conclude that all married women should be fat as a married woman who is still thin must either be poor and undernourished or unhappy and looking to ditch her husband for a better one." Can you add more stereotypes?

"You have misinterpreted my point - as Tristuskhan pointed our Lagarde's tan appears to be fake, or cultivated in a tanning bed at least. I am not saying she is not French, I intimated that the way she presents herself, i.e her personal grooming habits are at odds with what is characteristically seen as French internationally, and (I believe) in France also. She is inelegant." It is a point I can't deny, I might have misinterpreted. For the rest, I can't judge how the World represents the French, being one of them. But I agree she is not elegant.

[Brenus]

"Do you have any figures that can serve as evidence to prove your claim?" Google number of unemployed during her ministry and amount of the debt...
And it is an opinion btw...

[Tristuskhan]

Really, I find that odd, but then I'm English. I find many things odd. Here "old money" never tans.

Your's prefer different flavours of vulgarity. That way you can make different novels when crossing the channel.

Lagarde was Minister of Finances under Sarko. The debt skyrocketted. Something like from 1000 billions to 1600 in two years.

[Gilrandir]

"Do you have any figures that can serve as evidence to prove your claim?" Google number of unemployed during her ministry and amount of the debt...

I'm not going to google anything, it is your claim, so you are supposed to sustain it.

As for numbers (if you want to present some), they should be comparative for us to judge who was the worst French minister of finance EVER (since the times France started to have ministers of finance). And then you should prove that number of unemployed and the amount of debt are the responsibilities of the minister of finance.

And it is an opinion btw...

Not backed by facts? What about the reality check?

[Tristuskhan]

I'm not going to google anything, it is your claim, so you are supposed to sustain it.

As for numbers (if you want to present some), they should be comparative for us to judge who was the worst French minister of finance EVER (since the times France started to have ministers of finance). And then you should prove that number of unemployed and the amount of debt are the responsibilities of the minister of finance.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/fran...nt-debt-to-gdp for ratio, Lagarde was Ministre des Finances between june 2017 and june 2011.

National debt went from 1252 billons in dec. 2007 to 1753 billons in dec. 2011: http://countryeconomy.com/national-debt/france, something like 40% worse. So my opinion is also that she was the worst, with 500 billions wasted in the pokets of her kin: tax evaders, banksters and happy few.

And she still gives lessons to the planet.

Oh, I don't think it's much different in other countries: a minister of finances has "some" responsability in the debt level.

[Gilrandir]

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/fran...nt-debt-to-gdp for ratio, Lagarde was Ministre des Finances between june 2017 and june 2011.

You mean 2007, not 2017, right?
But the chart you refer to starts in 2007. What about the previous ministers (that is if we go by debt increase as the touchstone of the minister of finance's efficiency which I'm sure is a far-fetched measuring)?
And let's not forget that those were the years of the 2008 crisis and its aftermath. Taking this into account I wouldn't blame it all on her.

Oh, I don't think it's much different in other countries: a minister of finances has "some" responsability in the debt level.

And the unemployment to boot?

[Tristuskhan]

http://france-inflation.com/dette_pu...rance_1950.php , in french. The 2008 crisis was "cured" by a massive gift to the banksters, that accounts for much of the deepening of the debt. Courtesy of Sarko, Lagarde et al. Easy money.

[Brenus]

Mine: "She was one of the worst Minister of Finances France ever had..". Yours: "they should be comparative for us to judge who was the worst French minister of finance EVER"; Read the difference...
"Not backed by facts? What about the reality check?" About opinion. Nope. That is the key problem. You mix-up analyse and opinions. Not up to me to explain the difference... I did try in the past and failed...
"I'm not going to google anything, it is your claim, so you are supposed to sustain it." You do what you want. I am not supposed to do anything, nor I am obliged.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

"You will recall, Bretons are not French - unless they speak French and not Breton." Ahh, this conversation... It was about local languages and the fact you pretended there were banned in France as you are not aware there are still freely spoken and written in France? Or the one when we discuss your point of view that French was the extension of Paris original language therefore impose by force? I might be mistaken, but I (vaguely) remember telling you than Corsican, Alsatian and others languages are still used in France.
French Army marching:
https://youtu.be/gDTr9CGdUOs
Just not as an official language, so they have no value as legal documents. I also very vaguely remember telling you you should stop having sources in the extreme right literature, especially the britain one... I probably told you that to be French is a political agreement as it not based on languages (as we spoke several and others countries speak French), not thanks to a holy land as French borders did changed during History, not based on religions as France has no official religion and has a lot of them including the 3 monotheistic ones (and sub-divisions)...
And all this have what to do with the actual topic?

This has very little to do with the argument at hand - except to point out that the French remain less enlightened than most of the rest of Europe with regards to their national concept of Self. You told me Breton was a dead language (something achieved in a generation or two) and Occitan was inferior to French because French had supplanted it. It's a sort of linguistic and cultural "Might makes Right."

Compare the UK, or Spain.

"Infidelity is a very intimate form of dishonesty and dishonesty is usually considered a quality that bars one from any political office." That is yours "values" not nime. I don't see why stealing money or evading taxes is less dishonest than having an affair, at least the last one is between consenting adult and cost nothing to the community..
And in France infidelity is not an offense, nor in UK, USA and others civilized countries, contrary to stealing, blackmail and embezzlement. So barring someone for something legal is fine with you...

Criminal behaviour is also considered a bar to Political Office, as is financial Dishonesty. Compare the case of David Laws, very briefly the Lib Dem Chief Secretary to the Treasury - before it was revealed he had paid his lover for bed and board in an attempt to conceal his homosexual relationship. He promptly resigned and spent several years on the back benches before being given a minor role towards the end of the Coalition Government.

"Speaking English is not, in fact, a pre-requisite for being British and that's even without considering recent immigrants."
in https://www.gov.uk
Become a British citizen:
2. If your spouse is a British citizen
If you’re married to, or the civil partner of, a British citizen, you can apply for citizenship if:
you’re 18 or over
you’re of sound mind, you’re able to think and make decisions for yourself
you’re of good character, for example you don’t have a serious or recent criminal record
you’ve met the knowledge of English and life in the UK requirements
you’ve been granted indefinite leave to stay in the UK (this means there’s no specific date that you have to leave) or permanent residence if you’re an EEA national (and you have a permanent residence card or document that shows you have permanent residence)
in
You should speak with my Indian Colleague when she is told she is not British as she even not speak english... It brings tears in her eyes. When someone tell me this, I just tell them it is quite right as I have no intention to become british any way...

I refer you to the monoglot Welsh and Galic speakers (few in number but still British). Whilst it has never been tested I believe that one could sue the government and demand the right to become a citizen if one spoke fluent Welsh in Wales, but not English. Also, again I note the mocking smilies - you need to stop that.

"Depending on who you ask in Italy or Sapin you might conclude that all married women should be fat as a married woman who is still thin must either be poor and undernourished or unhappy and looking to ditch her husband for a better one." Can you add more stereotypes?

Could you try to refute instead of ridicule, please? Is this not an opinion held in parts of those countries?

"You have misinterpreted my point - as Tristuskhan pointed our Lagarde's tan appears to be fake, or cultivated in a tanning bed at least. I am not saying she is not French, I intimated that the way she presents herself, i.e her personal grooming habits are at odds with what is characteristically seen as French internationally, and (I believe) in France also. She is inelegant." It is a point I can't deny, I might have misinterpreted. For the rest, I can't judge how the World represents the French, being one of them. But I agree she is not elegant.

I am shocked you agree with me.

Your's prefer different flavours of vulgarity. That way you can make different novels when crossing the channel.

Lagarde was Minister of Finances under Sarko. The debt skyrocketted. Something like from 1000 billions to 1600 in two years.

We like to hide our vulgarity in public, especially the Upper Classes - in private though...

[Gilrandir]

Mine: "She was one of the worst Minister of Finances France ever had..". Yours: "they should be comparative for us to judge who was the worst French minister of finance EVER"; Read the difference...

Still any claim (either ONE of the worst or the WORST) is to be proved numerically. Otherwise it is just an opinionated and arbitrary judgement.

"Not backed by facts? What about the reality check?" About opinion. Nope. That is the key problem. You mix-up analyse and opinions. Not up to me to explain the difference... I did try in the past and failed...

The latter is not an uncommon thing with you. But I'm shocked to learn that marxists can switch on their fabled skills in some cases and allow themselves ungrounded claims in others.

"I'm not going to google anything, it is your claim, so you are supposed to sustain it." You do what you want. I am not supposed to do anything, nor I am obliged.

I see. When being unable to prove the claim a blunt refusal is always the best tactics.

[Tristuskhan]

Madame Penelope Fillon is now suspected to have been paid as much as 900k € public money in exchange of thin air. Beginning to smell bad for our french Thatcherboy. Love when those people promote christian virtues and austerity for the common citizen.

Guillotine anyone? Mrs Fillon would be a perfectly appropriate Marie-Antoinette for the XXIst century.

[Brenus]

"Otherwise it is just an opinionated and arbitrary judgement." Which, as I actually said, is: My opinion. You finally got it.
For the rest of your rant, whatever...

"This has very little to do with the argument at hand - except to point out that the French remain less enlightened than most of the rest of Europe with regards to their national concept of Self." Nonsense, but you know this. I heard enough of debate about St George and Englishness to know exactly French have at least more clues about themselves than the English

"Also, again I note the mocking smilies - you need to stop that." No. Definition is laugh4. Not mocking, laughing. Stop pretending things so detached from reality that they make me laugh.


"You told me Breton was a dead language (something achieved in a generation or two) and Occitan was inferior to French because French had supplanted it. It's a sort of linguistic and cultural "Might makes Right" So, i told you a Breton is dead and still alive. Hmm, surprising, but then...
And I never ever speak of language in term of value/valor. How a language can be inferior?

"Compare the UK, or Spain." Don't know Spain, have more clue about England (more than you have about France, obviously).
Absolutely all is in English. Except the Royal Motto which is in French.

"I am shocked you agree with me." You are in systematic opposition, so, yeah, it probably hurts. Don't worry, you will recover, just watch a episode of Sharp, you will fell better.

[Gilrandir]

Fillon's rating has taken adip:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fr...-idUSKBN15G43I

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Brenus, you've been here a decade - start using the quote function - it is really hard to follow this "bold tiny part of previous post, delete the rest" method and it's just as easy to stick quote tags around something as bold it.

"Otherwise it is just an opinionated and arbitrary judgement." Which, as I actually said, is: My opinion. You finally got it.
For the rest of your rant, whatever...

Case in point - I wasn't sure who you were responding to here - I had to use Ctrl + F on "opinion" to work it out.

"This has very little to do with the argument at hand - except to point out that the French remain less enlightened than most of the rest of Europe with regards to their national concept of Self." Nonsense, but you know this. I heard enough of debate about St George and Englishness to know exactly French have at least more clues about themselves than the English

As to your point - the concept of "French" is different to the concept of "English". The "English" are an ethno-cultural group primarily living in England. To be French - on the other hand - is akin to being British, it is a political and legal status - not an ethnic one, except that it is also an ethno-cultural identity. The British and the Spanish recognise separate ethno-cultural identities within their national identity and have multiple legally recognised languages as a result.

In France the only recognised language is French, and this is unenlightened because in an age when the other nations of Europe seek to allow space for ethnic diversity within their borders the Frnch continue to impose Frankification on their indigenous cultural minorities.

"Also, again I note the mocking smilies - you need to stop that." No. Definition is laugh4. Not mocking, laughing. Stop pretending things so detached from reality that they make me laugh.

Laughing at someone is a form of mockery. You cannot claim it is a reflex because you are not speaking, you are typing, and in this case you took days to respond. Now,I am asking you as politely as I can to refrain from adding smilies for effect.

"You told me Breton was a dead language (something achieved in a generation or two) and Occitan was inferior to French because French had supplanted it. It's a sort of linguistic and cultural "Might makes Right" So, i told you a Breton is dead and still alive. Hmm, surprising, but then...
And I never ever speak of language in term of value/valor. How a language can be inferior?

I remember the conversation even if you don't - I pointed out that many of the great "French" romances are actually Occitan and you went on a whole thing about your Occitan grandfather (or great grandfather) and how he and his wife made a choice to only teach their children French and this was a good thing. I pointed out that, as a result, you were unable to read the literature of your ancestors and you said words to the effect that it didn't matter, that French was the future.

"Compare the UK, or Spain." Don't know Spain, have more clue about England (more than you have about France, obviously).
Absolutely all is in English. Except the Royal Motto which is in French.

Try visiting Wales - even the pound coins are in Welsh (not Latin) and stop this lazy equation of British and English - they aren't the same thing.

"I am shocked you agree with me." You are in systematic opposition, so, yeah, it probably hurts. Don't worry, you will recover, just watch a episode of Sharp, you will fell better.

So I essay to end on a lighter note after grilling you and you take another opportunity to insult me.

I'm starting to think you just don't like me personally.

[Tristuskhan]

In France the only recognised language is French, and this is unenlightened because in an age when the other nations of Europe seek to allow space for ethnic diversity within their borders the Frnch continue to impose Frankification on their indigenous cultural minorities.

Glad to react as a breton speaker: France does not have to impose anymore. Harm is done since 1950, at least. The absolute lack of support from the state to the breton language is a bore, but it's been like that for more than 200 years, so... Breton is functionnaly extinct, but paradoxally thrives the way hebrew thrived for 2000 years.
Breton as a litterary language disapeared mid-19th century. Breton as a populart idiom fell apart after 1918 (people began speaking to their kids in a mix of very bad french and very, very bad breton: elders have a nice accent but speak breton like erh... english swines).
Breton is alive again as a litterary language. Making it a popular form again would need state support (probably, but look at Ireland: Irish is supported by the state, every paddy knows it, but how many use it?).
Speakers use breton in pubs on week-ends. When they are lucky enough to live in the breton-speaking part of Brittany (I'm 1000kms away). So breton is not dead (or it stopped dying).

I remember the conversation even if you don't - I pointed out that many of the great "French" romances are actually Occitan and you went on a whole thing about your Occitan grandfather (or great grandfather) and how he and his wife made a choice to only teach their children French and this was a good thing. I pointed out that, as a result, you were unable to read the literature of your ancestors and you said words to the effect that it didn't matter, that French was the future.

Schoolteachers, who were the Black Hussars of the Republic and were paid to destroy local tongues, always said that a kid with zero knowledge of french when arriving in school had much easier time learning proper french than one whose parents tried to teach their poor french. Sorry Brennus, your great-grandparents were not so bright doing what they did, it was a pity for generations of kids (my father is one of those)

BTW, don't expect a french to understand bilinguism is a blessing. Hardcoded.

Back to the topic. Penelope Fillon, assistant of a MP, never had a snipe card nor a mailbox in the Palais Bourbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palais_Bourbon

My friends, this lady is becoming a legend so fast, that's outstanding.

[Brenus]

"Sorry Brennus, your great-grandparents were not so bright doing what they did, it was a pity for generations of kids (my father is one of those)" They didn't speak the same dialogue (patois) than the village 6 kms away. You know as me that French is the official language of the country which doesn't prevent Alsatian, Corsica, Basques and so on to have the right to use their languages. Problem for local languages is of course the French move within France, even going in Africa, Canada and other French speaking countries. In Congo, they speak french, not Britain. We married or have relationship with others belonging to another "cultural" space.
First sister was born in Bamako (Mali), me and 2 brothers in Ain, 2nd sister in Angouleme, 3rd in Orange? What should be our language?

[Gilrandir]

"French is the official language of the country which doesn't prevent Alsatian, Corsica, Basques and so on to have the right to use their languages.

Like to get education in those languages, to read press and books in them, to address the authorities, to have court sessions, to watch movies and have TV channels?