French Presidential Election

[Tristuskhan]

Like to get education in those languages,

Yes, but private education only, so one must pay. In public schools, it's at best a third language (3 hours per week)

to read press and books in them,

Yes, but it's uncommon. You have to be an activist speaker to find some. Hence my comment that breton speakers are like Rabbis.

to address the authorities, to have court sessions,

No and no... one MUST speak Parisian. Or die. Probably if you can prove you're not able to speak a good french you can have an interpreter, but you're then more likely to be a recent immigrant or an old north-african lady than a breton or alsacian (who often speak better french than the french themselves...)

to watch movies and have TV channels?

Who needs TVs anyway? Sorry, I don't have one so I can't say. Movies are confidential. There are a few radios, Radio Kerne http://www.radiokerne.bzh/br/ is breton-speaking only and a very good musical radio, by the way.

[Gilrandir]

Yes, but private education only, so one must pay. In public schools, it's at best a third language (3 hours per week)

Perhaps I didn't make it clear: I didn't mean LEARNING those languages. I meant other subjects (maths, geography, history, chemistry, etc.) TAUGHT in those languages. Are there such schools that do it?

Generally, having your answer, I wonder greatly how in the West (France including) there could be any speculations on how the Russian language is discriminated in Ukraine if in all the spheres I referred to Russian is used and in some it even dominates (in 2012 two thirds of newspapers and 90% of magazines in Ukraine were published in Russian).

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Glad to react as a breton speaker: France does not have to impose anymore. Harm is done since 1950, at least. The absolute lack of support from the state to the breton language is a bore, but it's been like that for more than 200 years, so... Breton is functionnaly extinct, but paradoxally thrives the way hebrew thrived for 2000 years.
Breton as a litterary language disapeared mid-19th century. Breton as a populart idiom fell apart after 1918 (people began speaking to their kids in a mix of very bad french and very, very bad breton: elders have a nice accent but speak breton like erh... english swines).
Breton is alive again as a litterary language. Making it a popular form again would need state support (probably, but look at Ireland: Irish is supported by the state, every paddy knows it, but how many use it?).
Speakers use breton in pubs on week-ends. When they are lucky enough to live in the breton-speaking part of Brittany (I'm 1000kms away). So breton is not dead (or it stopped dying).

The experience is analogues to the experience of the Welsh in the UK sixty years ago. It took a while but eventually we realised what we were doing in Wales was the same as what we were doing in Africa.

Schoolteachers, who were the Black Hussars of the Republic and were paid to destroy local tongues, always said that a kid with zero knowledge of french when arriving in school had much easier time learning proper french than one whose parents tried to teach their poor french. Sorry Brennus, your great-grandparents were not so bright doing what they did, it was a pity for generations of kids (my father is one of those)

BTW, don't expect a french to understand bilinguism is a blessing. Hardcoded.

We had something here called the "Welsh knot". It was a piece of rope the teacher hung around a child's neck for speaking Welsh and the only way to get rid of it was to report another child for speaking Welsh.

Of course, the English believed that Welsh was a "dying language" and they were "helping" these children. Fast forward half a century and there are State Schools that give all instruction in Welsh where English is learned as a second language. Welsh qualifications are actually seen as superior to English ones because Welsh-language instruction is seen as more rigorous.

Back to the topic. Penelope Fillon, assistant of a MP, never had a snipe card nor a mailbox in the Palais Bourbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palais_Bourbon

My friends, this lady is becoming a legend so fast, that's outstanding.

France seems to be producing a lot of money-related scandals right now. Apparently Sarko has to stand trial, and then there's this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0a1dcbd02dd33

"Sorry Brennus, your great-grandparents were not so bright doing what they did, it was a pity for generations of kids (my father is one of those)" They didn't speak the same dialogue (patois) than the village 6 kms away. You know as me that French is the official language of the country which doesn't prevent Alsatian, Corsica, Basques and so on to have the right to use their languages. Problem for local languages is of course the French move within France, even going in Africa, Canada and other French speaking countries. In Congo, they speak french, not Britain. We married or have relationship with others belonging to another "cultural" space.
First sister was born in Bamako (Mali), me and 2 brothers in Ain, 2nd sister in Angouleme, 3rd in Orange? What should be our language?

Parisian French is a patois of Latin, a common language spoken by plebs. To describe other languages in France as patois in opposition to French is incorrect because most of those other languages descend from Latin as well, and not Old or Middle French.

This is particularly disingenuous when referring to Breton as that language is descended from Bythronic, neither Latin nor French.

Yes, but private education only, so one must pay. In public schools, it's at best a third language (3 hours per week)

Yes, but it's uncommon. You have to be an activist speaker to find some. Hence my comment that breton speakers are like Rabbis.

No and no... one MUST speak Parisian. Or die. Probably if you can prove you're not able to speak a good french you can have an interpreter, but you're then more likely to be a recent immigrant or an old north-african lady than a breton or alsacian (who often speak better french than the french themselves...)

Who needs TVs anyway? Sorry, I don't have one so I can't say. Movies are confidential. There are a few radios, Radio Kerne http://www.radiokerne.bzh/br/ is breton-speaking only and a very good musical radio, by the way.

Maybe one day France will enter the modern age.

[Tristuskhan]

Perhaps I didn't make it clear: I didn't mean LEARNING those languages. I meant other subjects (maths, geography, history, chemistry, etc.) TAUGHT in those languages. Are there such schools that do it?

You did make it clear and I answered. Breton-speaking schools (Diwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diwan_(school) ) are private, breton in the public schools is at best third language, if not absent.

We had something here called the "Welsh knot". It was a piece of rope the teacher hung around a child's neck for speaking Welsh and the only way to get rid of it was to report another child for speaking Welsh.

Same thing in Brittany, if I remember well it was a horseshoe (but I'm not 100% sure). The kid who had it at the end of the day had to clean the classroom. The was also a sign telling "it's forbiden to speak breton and to spit on the ground" in the schoolyards. Charming.
Welsh are a great inspiration (and it's the sister tongue, after all). We just wish their music was less confidential!

Maybe one day France will enter the modern age.

France is also still waiting for her neighbours to enter the modern age by getting rid of their kings. Nothing is full bright or full dark, PFH!
Language policy in France is awful. We have to live with it.

France seems to be producing a lot of money-related scandals right now. Apparently Sarko has to stand trial, and then there's this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0a1dcbd02dd33

Well the VIP quarters of the Prison de la Santé in Paris are ongoing modernization, I heard saying.

[Pannonian]

You did make it clear and I answered. Breton-speaking schools (Diwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diwan_(school) ) are private, breton in the public schools is at best third language, if not absent.

Same thing in Brittany, if I remember well it was a horseshoe (but I'm not 100% sure). The kid who had it at the end of the day had to clean the classroom. The was also a sign telling "it's forbiden to speak breton and to spit on the ground" in the schoolyards. Charming.
Welsh are a great inspiration (and it's the sister tongue, after all). We just wish their music was less confidential!

It's your lucky day.

Everybody now: "Every day, when I wake up, I thank the Lord I'm Welsh."

You can sing the other bits as well.

Deffrwch Cymry cysgld gwlad y gan
Dwfn yw'are gwendid
Bychan yw y fflam
Creulon yw'are cynhaeaf
Ond per yw'are don
'Da' alaw'are alarch unig
Yn fy mron

Gwledd o fedd gynhyrfodd Gymraes swil
Darganfyddais gwir baradwys Rhyl

[Gilrandir]

Same thing in Brittany, if I remember well it was a horseshoe (but I'm not 100% sure). The kid who had it at the end of the day had to clean the classroom. The was also a sign telling "it's forbiden to speak breton and to spit on the ground" in the schoolyards. Charming.

Oh no. This can't be true. Could Brenus have been wrong that

... local languages ... are still freely spoken and written in France?

I can't believe that France is not a paragon of democracy. What about fraternite, liberte, and other tes? Should Breton speakers feel threatened and try to proclaim Britanny People's Republic?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Same thing in Brittany, if I remember well it was a horseshoe (but I'm not 100% sure). The kid who had it at the end of the day had to clean the classroom. The was also a sign telling "it's forbiden to speak breton and to spit on the ground" in the schoolyards. Charming.
Welsh are a great inspiration (and it's the sister tongue, after all). We just wish their music was less confidential!

Lovely. I think the spitting thing might have been in Wales too - maybe the English and the French decided to co-operate!

The Welsh are still quite finnicky about their language. Like Breton there are several quite distinct dialects but one year a Cornish team when to the National Eisteddfod and won! Then it was realised that nobody had quite followed the song, and that it was an old Cornish Lay and not Welsh.

They were Disqualified, which I felt was unfair when I heard the story.

France is also still waiting for her neighbours to enter the modern age by getting rid of their kings. Nothing is full bright or full dark, PFH!
Language policy in France is awful. We have to live with it.

The Queen is there to protect us from the likes of Trump and Sarko - the fact that our Nation requires a sort of "National Granny" to wipe our face and rap our knuckles to make democray work is not lost on me. Then I look at America and Trump, and am grateful.

Well the VIP quarters of the Prison de la Santé in Paris are ongoing modernization, I heard saying.

I find the very concept of a VIP Wing bizarre - I looked it up and see you are not joking.

[Greyblades]

It is somewhat medieval, I'm not sure when was the last time a nobleman was locked in the luxury of the white tower's quarters while common theives languished in a pitch black cells, the late 1700's?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It's your lucky day.

Everybody now: "Every day, when I wake up, I thank the Lord I'm Welsh."

You can sing the other bits as well.

Deffrwch Cymry cysgld gwlad y gan
Dwfn yw'are gwendid
Bychan yw y fflam
Creulon yw'are cynhaeaf
Ond per yw'are don
'Da' alaw'are alarch unig
Yn fy mron

Gwledd o fedd gynhyrfodd Gymraes swil
Darganfyddais gwir baradwys Rhyl

I am a fan of Celtic traditional, even in the gael which I do not speak. This one's charm eludes me.

[Greyblades]

At this point I just assume that every gaelic phrase is a variation on "screw you England"

[Seamus Fermanagh]

At this point I just assume that every gaelic phrase is a variation on "screw you England"

At almost any point in history boyo, at almost any point in history you'd care to name....

[Tristuskhan]

At almost any point in history boyo, at almost any point in history you'd care to name....

Glad to see that bashing the colonial overlords is a shared pastime among celtic nations.

Should Breton speakers feel threatened and try to proclaim Britanny People's Republic?

The only way I could foresee Brittany seeking for independance is in the case of Mme Le Pen winning. Her beloved father was born in Brittany, but bretons in general dislike such ideologies much more than the average french. Apart from that, nationalism has always been very weak, something like between five and ten percent, divided in a residual catholic far-right wing (with a prestigious history, including collaboration with the SS), some christian-democrats and a very strong far-left component (itself divided the way the far-left knows how).
Breton speakers don't feel threatened now. Until thirty years ago, yes, but grudge and resentment are not valid fuels.
The language is not lost and the music thrives, where is the menace?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOgfjKOcCjg

Damn, I forgot that one, especially for you Gilrandir:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1yS4TvhUQ I suppose the lady sings in Irish, not sure.

I can't believe that France is not a paragon of democracy. What about fraternite, liberte, and other tes?

What do you want to know about Liberté, Egalité and Fraternité? I'm of french education after all, I may be able to enlighten you with a whole lot of theories. Theories!

[Gilrandir]

Breton speakers don't feel threatened now.

That's because Russia isn't interested in them so far. If it were, it would make them feel that way.

The language is not lost and the music thrives, where is the menace?

I was referring to some statements here that claimed Russians and Russian-speakers in Ukraine felt linguistically threatened, although Russian in Ukraine is widely used (in some spheres dominating over other languages).

Damn, I forgot that one, especially for you Gilrandir:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1yS4TvhUQ I suppose the lady sings in Irish, not sure.

What do you want to know about Liberté, Egalité and Fraternité? I'm of french education after all, I may be able to enlighten you with a whole lot of theories. Theories!

Some people here claimed that they aren't theories in France, but a full-fledged comprehensive and ubiquitous practice which makes Musim obscurantists especially enraged.

[Tristuskhan]

That's because Russia isn't interested in them so far. If it were, it would make them feel that way.

That day we'll probably stand along the Tatars, Kalmuks and Buriats. Bunch of winners.

I was referring to some statements here that claimed Russians and Russian-speakers in Ukraine felt linguistically threatened, although Russian in Ukraine is widely used (in some spheres dominating over other languages).

The close proximity between Russian and Ukrainian makes it much easier to use as a vicious political tool, in my opinion. I remember when I learned Russian in middle school (mid 80's) the teachers told us there was less distance between Russian and Ukrainian than between french practiced in Switzerland and Belgium. Different but well... good old CCCP at that time. Linguistic imperialism from the power in Russia looks more like the efforts of the french republic to wipe out french's dialectal variants (done, and for long, dead with the music and so). I suspect a french invention adopted and enhanced by russian and soviet political philosophy.

Some people here claimed that they aren't theories in France, but a full-fledged comprehensive and ubiquitous practice which makes Musim obscurantists especially enraged.

Social and racial prejudice at home, nice propaganda straight from our precious mid-eastern allies fed the Beast enough it did not have to face this full-fledged etc, etc... to bite hard. Speeches about Jihadis being motivated par our practice of freedom are true for foreigners maybe. But most terrorists here are locals. So they know the truth: full fledge etc etc EXCEPT if you are part of the colored lumpen: everything becomes thrice harder if you're a woman, four times if you are a man (local woman having it twice harder than men to begin with). The bad 10%, sorry.
Must note than the same scale applies to rural areas: Hillbillies in building. Thanks to our sens of Egalité, social prejudice is not restricted to a racial issue anymore. The other bad 10. Crap!

[Pannonian]

That day we'll probably stand along the Tatars, Kalmuks and Buriats. Bunch of winners.



The close proximity between Russian and Ukrainian makes it much easier to use as a vicious political tool, in my opinion. I remember when I learned Russian in middle school (mid 80's) the teachers told us there was less distance between Russian and Ukrainian than between french practiced in Switzerland and Belgium. Different but well... good old CCCP at that time. Linguistic imperialism from the power in Russia looks more like the efforts of the french republic to wipe out french's dialectal variants (done, and for long, dead with the music and so). I suspect a french invention adopted and enhanced by russian and soviet political philosophy.

What do you think of the adoption of Franglais by the younger age groups in Cameroon? It's apparently developed from the ground up, with children from Anglo and Franco phone areas finding it easier to converse in a mixture of the two rather than the prescribed French.

[Brenus]

@Trituskhan:
https://blogs.mediapart.fr/ker-beirh...-parler-breton
Hoax.
But then. Britany was French before Les Dombes, annexed by Louis XV le Bien Aimé (Parliament of Trevoux)

[Tristuskhan]

@Trituskhan:
https://blogs.mediapart.fr/ker-beirh...-parler-breton
Hoax.

Interesting. And? Do you want us to count every hoax that was used in the building of every nation? Pointless. If it became so common so fast, it may be because people who had to live under this regime felt it was a very good piece of understatement (litote, in french...). My father, who had to wear the symbole will be stunned when I tell him. Because it's exactly this taste that remains: défense de parler breton et de cracher par terre.

But then. Britany was French before Les Dombes, annexed by Louis XV le Bien Aimé (Parliament of Trevoux)

Wales was part of the United Kingdom long before, anyway what does this have to do with linguistic rights?

[Tristuskhan]

What do you think of the adoption of Franglais by the younger age groups in Cameroon? It's apparently developed from the ground up, with children from Anglo and Franco phone areas finding it easier to converse in a mixture of the two rather than the prescribed French.

Language in building. Welcome since mankind usually extincts languages much too fast. I dare being racist saying I trust african kids to make it perfectly fit for use. I'll find the first novel published.

[Pannonian]

Interesting. And? Do you want us to count every hoax that was used in the building of every nation? Pointless. If it became so common so fast, it may be because people who had to live under this regime felt it was a very good piece of understatement (litote, in french...). My father, who had to wear the symbole will be stunned when I tell him. Because it's exactly this taste that remains: défense de parler breton et de cracher par terre.

Wales was part of the United Kingdom long before, anyway what does this have to do with linguistic rights?

Bashing the British is a longstanding French tradition. They mostly can't do it to those living on the island of Great Britain, so they vent their anger on those living on the continent instead.

[Tristuskhan]

Bashing the British is a longstanding French tradition. They mostly can't do it to those living on the island of Great Britain, so they vent their anger on those living on the continent instead.

Breton's most hated:

3 - english pigs. Been insulting our shores for too long. Stole the Capital God Himslef had given us: Londinum.
2 - parisian dogs, who usually have a Breton Spaniel for father. At work: painful inefficient fragile chatters who claim being craftsmen too much.
1 - untermenschen from Vendée (the ugly depressive place under the Loire). When a man dies in sin, his soul goes in Vendée.

Naturally there is nothing serious in those loathes. Except for Vendéens, and parisians at work, of course.

[Brenus]

"défense de parler breton et de cracher par terre." Sauf que c'est faux. Simple à prouver: pas de décret d'application pour interdire le Breton, sauf par Combes en 1904.
For the rare not speaking French: Not true. Simple to prove if this placard is true: Finding the executive power to forbid Briton. There is none. Only one from Combes, forbidding priest to use Briton in Confession and another thing... So, hoax.

"Wales was part of the United Kingdom long before, anyway what does this have to do with linguistic rights?" Absolutely none. Just for the fun and history. Breton dies because a lot of britons speaking French and Breton (small amount) married a lot of French not knowing Briton, kids learned only French.
Classic phenomenon, living in UK, none of my nieces and nephews, or grand children speak French...

"Bashing the British is a longstanding French tradition." Sorry to disappoint by most of the French will bash USA. The French bashing in UK however is real (but not too often, to be fair), as you can say about the French what you couldn't say for other countries. When I write you, it is not you personally.
But, hey, "Honni soit qui mal y pense"...

"and parisians at work, of course." Of course...

[Tristuskhan]

"défense de parler breton et de cracher par terre." Sauf que c'est faux. Simple à prouver: pas de décret d'application pour interdire le Breton, sauf par Combes en 1904.
For the rare not speaking French: Not true. Simple to prove if this placard is true: Finding the executive power to forbid Briton. There is none. Only one from Combes, forbidding priest to use Briton in Confession and another thing... So, hoax.

Come on, every teacher was officially missionned to crush local idioms. Official Policy. The Combes decreet is some other thing: prelude to the 1905 law on laïcité. That's another (broader) focus. That's outstanding how such a common thing in Europe, support of the State for local tongues, seems so extravagant for the average french.

"Wales was part of the United Kingdom long before, anyway what does this have to do with linguistic rights?" Absolutely none. Just for the fun and history. Breton dies because a lot of britons speaking French and Breton (small amount) married a lot of French not knowing Briton, kids learned only French.
Classic phenomenon, living in UK, none of my nieces and nephews, or grand children speak French...

Nothing fatal: breton was expelled from my father's generation, by bullying in the schools of the Republic. I speak much much much better than him. In fact, he avoids speaking breton: mission accomplished. I had to learn.

"Bashing the British is a longstanding French tradition." Sorry to disappoint by most of the French will bash USA. The French bashing in UK however is real (but not too often, to be fair), as you can say about the French what you couldn't say for other countries. When I write you, it is not you personally.
But, hey, "Honni soit qui mal y pense"...

... will bash USA if they feel the need to bash a foreign country. Most of time I feel we're more proxy-bashers far from the major cities. Like Alsacians and Lorrains, Ardenese and Champenois, Cevenols and Cantalous, Bretons and Vendéens, Jurassiques and Bressans, 15/16th corsican blooded and 16/16th corsican blooded, people from the plateau and people from the collines... Seen from my deep outback.
Last time I bashed the Brits was when they decided for not one but two shiny new aircraft carriers. Such fun toy could have became the ultimate ships for the building of a EU Navy. And then, poof! Brexit! Sigh....

[Gilrandir]

I remember when I learned Russian in middle school (mid 80's) the teachers told us there was less distance between Russian and Ukrainian than between french practiced in Switzerland and Belgium.

I don't know anything about different dialects/variations of French and their mutual intelligibility, but as for Ukrainian/Russian intelligibility, according to different estimates it is 40-60%. The safe bet would be around 50%:
https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/...slavic-family/
I doubt it is that little for Belgian/Swiss French.

@Trituskhan:
https://blogs.mediapart.fr/ker-beirh...-parler-breton
Hoax.

Brenus basing his judgement on social media rather than on personal experience of a witness/victim? Impossible!

Simple to prove if this placard is true: Finding the executive power to forbid Briton. There is none. Only one from Combes, forbidding priest to use Briton in Confession and another thing... So, hoax.

Which means there was/is no grass root/unofficial censure and bullying?

[Tristuskhan]

I don't know anything about different dialects/variations of French and their mutual intelligibility, but as for Ukrainian/Russian intelligibility, according to different estimates it is 40-60%. The safe bet would be around 50%:
https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/...slavic-family/
I doubt it is that little for Belgian/Swiss French.

Looks that it proves my teachers were definitely french teachers of their times... Ukrainian, a language? No! Breton still alive? No! Benefits of early bilinguism? No!
I gave up Russian when I was 18, a pain of a grammar and, at that time, sheer intolerance of Russians towards approximative russian ( did it change since then?) were too much for me. Still the second most singing language I heard after Kinyarwanda.
Frankly did not know about such distance between Russian and Ukrainian. The only ukrainian author I read is Andreï Kurkov translated and he writes in russian (and some poems by Taras Chevchenko translated here and there, maybe some of the soviet novelists I read were also ukrainian, dunno).

Brenus basing his judgement on social media rather than on personal experience of a witness/victim? Impossible!

I don't know that person! He said the language I speak with my cousins when I'm home, while drinking, listening music and smoking pot is dead! Glad to hear about it, I'll tell the family. They'll be as stunned as my Pa when I'll tell him he was not bullied during his childhood.
Always ask a Gaul when you feel ready to learn about some shocking truth about yourself.

Once more, during our presidential campaign, language policy will be mentionned. Just the way legalisation of cannabis will be mentionned. Yes we must seriously think about it and from the beginning conclude it's a big NO. End of the "debate", democracy at it's max and so on, the things that anger jihadists you know.

http://www.marianne.net/affaire-assi...100247390.html

Interesting piece of news (google translate or better: speak french). A summary of corruption affairs shows corruption is as high inside our far-right than among the old parties. Figures even show them a little more corrupt BUT it's probably the same phenomenon that make recent immigrants more likely to get caught in crime statistics: being newcomers to the party they don't know yet how to avoid getting caught.
So Madame Le Pen was using YOUR money, dear EU fellows, to fatten her clan, it seems.
Meanwhile, the polls show no change to Jean-Marine's popularity, that can make one think approval of her is not based on her anti-corruption anti-apparatchik stance but more on her sheer racism. Unsurprisingly.

[Gilrandir]

I gave up Russian when I was 18, a pain of a grammar and, at that time, sheer intolerance of Russians towards approximative russian ( did it change since then?) were too much for me. Still the second most singing language I heard after Kinyarwanda.

I don't know what you mean by "singing language" - "euphonic/melodious" or "good for singing songs in it". If it is the former, then (an arbitrary claim) Ukrainian rates second after Italian in this aspect.

So Madame Le Pen was using YOUR money, dear EU fellows, to fatten her clan, it seems.

And Russian money as well.
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...n-backer-fails

[Tristuskhan]

I don't know what you mean by "singing language" - "euphonic/melodious" or "good for singing songs in it". If it is the former, then (an arbitrary claim) Ukrainian rates second after Italian in this aspect.

I meant the first, indeed. Try to have an ear at Kinyarwanda, it's a ravishment.

And Gil, what about Rusyns?

[Gilrandir]

I meant the first, indeed. Try to have an ear at Kinyarwanda, it's a ravishment.

And Gil, what about Rusyns?

Rusyns are an ethnic group living in Western Ukraine (mostly Transcarpathia). Some of them claim that their language is apart from Ukrainian, but most scholars call it a dialect of Ukrainian.

[Brenus]

"That's outstanding how such a common thing in Europe, support of the State for local tongues, seems so extravagant for the average french." I think it is because French nationaliship is not based on territories, languages or ethnicities. As, I far as I am concerned, the example of Yugoslavia. I don't want a balkanisation of France.

The difference between various French is due to usage. My friend from Lille will use different verbs or words than me, and I don't speak of the accent. French Canadians of course have a much "purest" French than ours, due their position og linguistic minority. When I was sick in Africa, a girlfriend did "offre sa compassion", which is not really used in France. Each French speaking country of course made this language their, same for English.

"Come on, every teacher was officially missioned to crush local idioms" In the XIX century, early XX Century, yes, self missioned, not official as proved by the lack of Executive Power to enforced a law. They were as well committed to hygiene (this about the not spitting on the floor, Pasteur having "invented" the microbes). I personally perfectly remember my female teacher in CP checking our hands above the wrist and our nails to check our state of cleanness!!! So, I can considered I was bullied as well, so my friends forbidden to speak the local language which I am unable to named.

And btw, it was during the XIII century that the Duke of Normandy's administration went from writing in Latin to French, without passing by Briton... Francis the 1st and his ordonnance of Villers-Cotterêts (1539) impose French in all administration of his Kingdom. So much to blame the extension of local languages on the "black hussars of the republic".

I think Fillon is down now. Next!!!! "Qu'ils dégagent"!!!

If not dead, pretty much on it way:
"Selon le sondage TMO de Fañch Broudig réalisé en 2009, il y aurait 172 000 locuteurs actifs dans les cinq départements de la Bretagne historique, ce qui représente 5 % de la population bretonne (mais l'auteur précise que 35 000 personnes seulement le parlent quotidiennement) 3. En effet, le breton est, après le français, la première langue parlée dans la région de la Bretagne4, devant le gallo, ayant sept fois moins de locuteurs. Depuis les années 1980, il n'est plus attesté de brittophone monolingue.
Le breton est reconnu comme langue régionale ou minoritaire de France et comme langue de la région de la Bretagne, aux côtés du français et du gallo. Il est classé comme « langue sérieusement en danger » selon l'Unesco"
5 % of Britanny population know to speak Briton so 172,000... Only 35,000 speak it on daily basis. Well, no comment...

[Tristuskhan]

"That's outstanding how such a common thing in Europe, support of the State for local tongues, seems so extravagant for the average french." I think it is because French nationaliship is not based on territories, languages or ethnicities. As, I far as I am concerned, the example of Yugoslavia. I don't want a balkanisation of France.

Certes certes. Ordinary cultural rights for Brittany = independance = a wall YOU french will pay for = proxy war to steal Mt St Michel from the Normands = failed genocide of Vendéens (place is so dull we'll give up fast) then we invade Poland to have an access to the sea. All that because breton was given the position most linguistic minorities in Europe already have. That's stupid. Balkanisation of France won't come from cultural rights. Comparison with Yugoslavia would need more substance, please.

"Come on, every teacher was officially missioned to crush local idioms" In the XIX century, early XX Century, yes, self missioned, not official as proved by the lack of Executive Power to enforced a law. They were as well committed to hygiene (this about the not spitting on the floor, Pasteur having "invented" the microbes). I personally perfectly remember my female teacher in CP checking our hands above the wrist and our nails to check our state of cleanness!!! So, I can considered I was bullied as well, so my friends forbidden to speak the local language which I am unable to named.

Yes, Hygiene. What a great comparison to support your logics. Insulting a bit, maybe?

And btw, it was during the XIII century that the Duke of Normandy's administration went from writing in Latin to French, without passing by Briton... Francis the 1st and his ordonnance of Villers-Cotterêts (1539) impose French in all administration of his Kingdom. So much to blame the extension of local languages on the "black hussars of the republic".

Duke of what? Invalid: european nobility were not part of the people they ruled and the Dukes of Brittany, as far as we know, never spoke breton. I again don't see how it makes a point and makes it legitimate to let breton die.
With such logics I'll use the fact that the oldest surviving breton text is a treaty of medecine date c.750. French, 842 if I remember well, sons of Charlemagne dividing his empire. Those, like your's, are interesting facts but have no weight in the debate on linguistic rights today.

I think Fillon is down now. Next!!!! "Qu'ils dégagent"!!!

I'd love to share your optimism but...
Anyway, you're right, let's celebrate a bit, we deserve it.

If not dead, pretty much on it way:
"Selon le sondage TMO de Fañch Broudig réalisé en 2009, il y aurait 172 000 locuteurs actifs dans les cinq départements de la Bretagne historique, ce qui représente 5 % de la population bretonne (mais l'auteur précise que 35 000 personnes seulement le parlent quotidiennement) 3. En effet, le breton est, après le français, la première langue parlée dans la région de la Bretagne4, devant le gallo, ayant sept fois moins de locuteurs. Depuis les années 1980, il n'est plus attesté de brittophone monolingue.
Le breton est reconnu comme langue régionale ou minoritaire de France et comme langue de la région de la Bretagne, aux côtés du français et du gallo. Il est classé comme « langue sérieusement en danger » selon l'Unesco"
5 % of Britanny population know to speak Briton so 172,000... Only 35,000 speak it on daily basis. Well, no comment...

Danger of extinction comes mostly from the lack of official support, again. Official support means survival: Scottish Gaelic would very likely be dead without official support. Well, it is not and that's a good thing, whatever the future can be. Note that there are as many people speaking Gaelic that there are speaking breton, meaning a much lesser proportion of the total population.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Tristuskhan is clearly quite capable of of defending his own people, so I'll just make a few final points for everyone's consideration, hopefully Brenus might take note.

1. Whether the sign was real or not is less important that the fact that Breton-speakers from that period are willing to believe it was. This tells you a great deal about the time period, and similar stories comes from most minority groups across Europe (including the UK) from that period. Teachers were not sent in with explicit orders to crush Breton and other regional languages, but they were sent from other parts of France to enforce the learning of French as defined by Paris. What this meant was that the teachers could only communicate with their Pupils in French and therefore had to enforce the speaking of French.

2. It should be pointed out that the enforcing of French as the national language of government and business was an essential building block of a unitary "French" state after the Revolution overthrew what was essentially a quasi-Feudal and quasi-Federal regime. The motto of the Republic is Liberté, égalité, fraternité "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" in French. Brotherhood for those speaking French then, equality and and liberty via the French language. The regional languages were, therefore designates patois and French was designated the Gallic "mother tongue". This was taken to absurd levels even into the mid 19th Century when it was argued by the members of the Academe that French had a Gallic rather than Latin base - the arternative being to admit French was a highly divergent Latin patois.

Now - back to the election.

Seems the immigrant communities in the French suburbs have been rioting for several days now:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ung-black-man/

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...202629347.html

The spark appears to have been the arrest and sodomising of an immigrant youth by Police. He's in hospital and the officers in question have been charged - but apparently riots were continuing as of last night.

I cannot but think this is good for Le Pen - I realise that rioting is a traditional French expression of political discontent but these scenes seem excessive given the perpetrators have been arrested, and apparently the rioters have set a nursury school on fire. Despite the reported damage this doesn't seem to be making the BBC website. That smells a bit fishy.