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Thread: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

  1. #31
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Anything that shows the West to be unsupportive of Turkish "Honor," can be spun to enhance Erdogan's position internally. No tactical win is necessary. The "strangers don't like and respect us" card has been a political staple since Sargon, if not earlier.

    After the failed coup, I pretty well wrote Turkey off as a "Western" nation, at least for the time being. I don't think they will go full Sharia and discard parliamentary governance entirely, but they will trend that way a good bit for some time. Interesting to see if they will stay NATO with all of this...but I have my doubts as NATO is conflated with "America's lackies" in too many Arab/Islamic minds.
    Pretty much.

    Turkey's president may not be clever, but he is cunning. All that matters right now is winning this Referendum, he calculates he can repair most of this damage afterwards, I wager.

    He may be in for some disappointment.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  2. #32
    The Red-titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    After the failed coup, I pretty well wrote Turkey off as a "Western" nation, at least for the time being. I don't think they will go full Sharia and discard parliamentary governance entirely, but they will trend that way a good bit for some time. Interesting to see if they will stay NATO with all of this...but I have my doubts as NATO is conflated with "America's lackies" in too many Arab/Islamic minds.
    I got to admit, LEN was the one who advocated that position that they weren't since I joined the Org, so my opinion was influenced by him and formed my political opinion as he is the resident Turk.
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  3. #33
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post

    Turkey's president may not be clever, but he is cunning. All that matters right now is winning this Referendum, he calculates he can repair most of this damage afterwards, I wager.
    When he sees it expedient he can alwasys reverse his judgements and actions. The way he did with Russia and the plane Turks brought down in Syria.

  4. #34
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    lol ok mr Erdogan you are absolutily right, the Dutch are nazi's who killed 8000 muslims in Sebrenica.

    3x50mg Oxazepam dailly I'd say

    Nothing like a good diplomatic dispute with a grandeurish Turk

    edit, you couldn't make it up, we didn't just kill them we also sold their organs according to Turkey. Do they really WANT to look like idiots. Turkey understands propaganda, everybody ought to know it's nonsense, propaganda is disempowerment, you know it's nonsense but you can do nothing about it. Even North-Koreans understand that their great leader didn't strike a hole in one the first time he tried golf and that he couldn't drive a car when he was 3
    Last edited by Fragony; 03-15-2017 at 16:07.
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    The Red-titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    3x50mg Oxazepam dailly I'd say
    Not sure why you identified that drug. Wouldn't Haloperidol be a better choice?
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

  6. #36
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Not sure why you identified that drug. Wouldn't Haloperidol be a better choice?
    Sure is funnier to say
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  7. #37
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post

    He may be in for some disappointment.
    I sincerely doubt that. Turkey's too important for NATO, so he just needs to refrain from doing something incredibly stupid, like starting an all out unprovoked war. Unless he manages to alienate NATO, Russia and the Middle East at the same time, he's pretty much sultan for life.

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Reactor Champion, Starcastle Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    This brings up the question of why there are so many unassimilated turks in one dutch city.
    The obvious explanation is that the Turkish government encouraged them to protest, and that they're not only from Rotterdam.

    But there's more to it, of course. In the sixties through the seventies, the Dutch government tended to accomodate Turkish organisations (meaning with roots in Turkey itself) who wanted to operate here. This includes islamic istitutions who wanted to build mosques for migrants, but also some nationalist clubs.

    Mostly this was due to naive optimism about integration, thinking that those organisations could help. The result is mixed at best, since those organisations also fostered bonds with Turkey. Partly, it also because many people expected that the Turkish migrants would one day pack up and return to Turkey.

  9. #39
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Sums it up.

    But all this is getting even funnier, Norway supposedly wants to give Gülen-supporters (that means everybody who is again the neo-sultan) political asylum. Hell hath no fury like a Turk feeling dishonored so we are going to hear some wild things from that supermarketfloorrolltoddler
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  10. #40
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Big LOL@the neosultan, a kids book offends him. Truly. Must be gülen-kids in Austria. Europhiles were so angry when Wilders called Erdogan a total freak, but let's add things up. Ah well let's just don't. Yeah, we Dutch are nazi's, we killed those muslims in Sebrenica, and we used to bury muslim children alive. If only that was everything. Can a sane Turk please shoot him.
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Turkish voters vote to support increased presidential power. Link
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

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  12. #42
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    These are the days for famous narrow victories.
    Vitiate Man.

  13. #43
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    I wonder how many Turks were afraid of getting on a 'gulen supporter' list, but then again, Turks are fiercily nationalistic and Erdogan brings some grandeur.
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    RIP Turkish Democracy.

    Next up - reinstatement of the death penalty.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  15. #45
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Well it's democracy even when rigged and intimidation was the key component. They are not going to like what happens next, tourism will freeze because of the Erdokhans outbursts and there isn't really anything else worth looking for. That big country is an economic midget with no friends. A big army that will make their treassury cough up blood the second they start their engines and I bet the Kurds can already smell it, as does the army itself probably, happy civil-war dear neosultan, nice palace by the way, really big. Adieu erdokhan may you live in interesting times
    Last edited by Fragony; 04-17-2017 at 11:45.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    the Erdokhans
    That's a new one from you. I like it. Actually a great pun considering the Turkish phonetics of his name.
    Vitiate Man.

  17. #47
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    That's a new one from you. I like it. Actually a great pun considering the Turkish phonetics of his name.
    Would I ever dissapoint you. Please don't answer
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  18. #48
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Last I saw, 63% of Turks in Germany voted yes...
    Then again I wonder whether the number was even reliable or changed a bit to create a rift between Germans and Turks.

    Sounds crazy, but so do reports from Turkey from election observers. In Kurdish regions, police and military were inside the polling stations.
    In several provinces, votes without official polling papers were counted due to alleged mistakes of the local officials in conducting the polling. The polling authorities just accepted this.
    In other provinces, observers were not allowed into any of the polling stations while in yet other provinces, they reported that voters were forced to vote openly and not in secret...

    It sounds a bit like the vote in Crimea, except that it was still close this time.

    Edit: Almost forgot: One of the opposition parties had problems getting enough polling observers in some parts of the country because their people are all in jail...
    Last edited by Husar; 04-17-2017 at 12:00.


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  19. #49
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    They are not going to like what happens next, tourism will freeze because of the Erdokhans outbursts and there isn't really anything else worth looking for.
    I doubt that. Turks take great pains to let tourism fluorish irrespective of the political situation (and even terroristic attacks). When Erdogan saw Russia introduce a ban on tourist trips to Turkey (after the Russian plane was downed) it didn't take him long to make it up with Putin for him to open the sluice again.

  20. #50
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I doubt that. Turks take great pains to let tourism fluorish irrespective of the political situation (and even terroristic attacks). When Erdogan saw Russia introduce a ban on tourist trips to Turkey (after the Russian plane was downed) it didn't take him long to make it up with Putin for him to open the sluice again.
    We will see I guess. Erdogan's rethoric has been so openly hostile, especially against Netherlands and Germany, that tourism might take a nosedive. Early prognoses look very bad at the moment for Turkish tourism at least, people are afraid to go there right now, the tourists who go there don't go there to watch the Haggia Sophia but for beaches and swimming pools. Funny that you mention Russians as that's also a reason don't want to go anymore, not that I have seen it myself and it needs a 'not all Russians are like that', but supposedly it aren't exactly the classy types so to say, Russians are even worse than the Brittish and that's saying a lot
    Last edited by Fragony; 04-18-2017 at 14:28.
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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Funny that you mention Russians as that's also a reason don't want to go anymore, not that I have seen it myself and it needs a 'not all Russians are like that', but supposedly it aren't exactly the classy types so to say, Russians are even worse than the Brittish and that's saying a lot
    I heard some hotels sport a sign saying something like "we have a restful atmosphere as we don't accomodate Russians". It was said about some European hotels though (Czech, IIRC), Turks have always been ready to invite Russian tourists, they are very numerous and consequently one of the chief sources of income.

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    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Nevertheless, Turkey saw a huge dip in number of tourists in 2016, something close to 25%, compared to 2015. A huge part of that is fewer Russian tourists, but also from Germany and UK.

    On the other hand, more Ukrainians visited in 2016, and tourists from Ukraine are now more numerous than Russian tourists.

  23. #53
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I heard some hotels sport a sign saying something like "we have a restful atmosphere as we don't accomodate Russians". It was said about some European hotels though (Czech, IIRC), Turks have always been ready to invite Russian tourists, they are very numerous and consequently one of the chief sources of income.
    Mobsters, bringing whores etc. Big bulky types with more paint on their skin than than the pages of an average book, all covered with white-power tatoes. Dangerous people.
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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Nevertheless, Turkey saw a huge dip in number of tourists in 2016, something close to 25%, compared to 2015. A huge part of that is fewer Russian tourists, but also from Germany and UK.

    On the other hand, more Ukrainians visited in 2016, and tourists from Ukraine are now more numerous than Russian tourists.
    What about Russian tourists from what used to be Ukraine?

  25. #55
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Croatia>Turkey anyway. If you must transverse the orient, go there.
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  26. #56
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I doubt that. Turks take great pains to let tourism fluorish irrespective of the political situation (and even terroristic attacks). When Erdogan saw Russia introduce a ban on tourist trips to Turkey (after the Russian plane was downed) it didn't take him long to make it up with Putin for him to open the sluice again.
    Do not doubt it. My wife have planned for a Greek islands cruise for decades to celebrate our 25th this June. When she booked the cruise this January, she purposefully chose a route that did NOT call in Turkey so as to avoid complications.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  27. #57
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Do not doubt it. My wife have planned for a Greek islands cruise for decades to celebrate our 25th this June. When she booked the cruise this January, she purposefully chose a route that did NOT call in Turkey so as to avoid complications.
    Congratulations.

    Greek islands are beautiful, especially if you're interested in history.

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Do not doubt it. My wife have planned for a Greek islands cruise for decades to celebrate our 25th this June. When she booked the cruise this January, she purposefully chose a route that did NOT call in Turkey so as to avoid complications.
    Make sure you hit Valetta and Rhodes, those towns can easily justify a week apiece.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  29. #59
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Do not doubt it. My wife have planned for a Greek islands cruise for decades to celebrate our 25th this June. When she booked the cruise this January, she purposefully chose a route that did NOT call in Turkey so as to avoid complications.
    Yiuve been married as long as I have been alive.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

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  30. #60
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Yiuve been married as long as I have been alive.
    She completes me. I have been exceedingly fortunate.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

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