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Thread: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Missile test as a new US admin kicks in (note, the new administration's tone toward NK has been far more confrontational). Is this petulance or pressure?

    Assassination of half-brother. Sounds just a bit like the old middle-eastern 'kill all siblings who are of course rivals' behavior a la the Parthian empire...

    Execution of government officials -- by anti-aircraft cannon -- for "enraging" the leader. Stalin and Mao just had threats eliminated, is this kind of picky overkill more petulance than policy?

    Recall that R.G.H. Siu wrote that "cruelty is the tantrum of frustrated power." [emphasis added]


    Though I must note that Un's behavior does at least make Donald Trump appear "presidential" by comparison -- something the Donald has not been doing much on his own....
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    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
    Recall that R.G.H. Siu wrote that "cruelty is the tantrum of frustrated power." [emphasis added]
    Or since I brought up Arendt in the other thread:

    Violence appears where power is in jeopardy, but left to its own course it ends in power's disappearance.
    Supreme Leader's relative propensity to execute the disfavored has been a subject of discussion for a few years.

    A simple explanation is that there are genuine power struggles in the midst of a relatively-young rule and the impending fruition of the nuclear armament card against the backdrop of increasing global uncertainty/instability. Or KJU is just a crazy/evil fool, whatever.
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    I just kept thinking...anti-aircraft gun?!!??

    executing opposition is an old historical tactic, granted, but both Stalin and the PRC were pretty simple about it. one round behind the ear (and bill the family for the round if we're talking China). The overkill thing smacks of a lack of stability on some level.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Well, the missile test is warranted given US aggression and the need to take care of their national interests. Remember that he is responsible only for his own citizens, he can do whatever he wants with those of the US as long as it is in NK's national interests.

    The execution of the half brother is most likely foreign aggression, the assumption that it was an inside job by his own brother is just silly and fake news unless there is 100% proof.

    The execution is rather merciful, especially compared to the US for example, where people who get executed are often in terrible pain for a comparatively long time. A very humane move on the part of KJU. Even more so when we consider that executions in general and executions by gunpowder weapons are favoured by some in the US to save taxpayer money whereas noone in NK complains about the cost of the use of large caliber rounds of a more sophisticated design such as AA rounds or mortar rounds.

    That people spread all this anti-korean hate-propaganda about the Great Leader who wants to Make Korea Great Again is mind-boggling, you can't always assume the worst. That's called a bias.


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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Someone on TWC was commenting on the merthod of assassination, that using such a deadly chemical in such a haphazard manner was uncharacteristically sloppy for the koreans and that it was a minor miracle noone else died with him.
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    The Red Titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Someone on TWC was commenting on the merthod of assassination, that using such a deadly chemical in such a haphazard manner was uncharacteristically sloppy for the koreans and that it was a minor miracle noone else died with him.
    It is commented that it required the mixing to actually occur on his face as well, using non-fatal binary agents (VX2), as it would have killed the attacks too in the process of them delivering it.
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Well, the missile test is warranted given US aggression and the need to take care of their national interests. Remember that he is responsible only for his own citizens, he can do whatever he wants with those of the US as long as it is in NK's national interests.

    The execution of the half brother is most likely foreign aggression, the assumption that it was an inside job by his own brother is just silly and fake news unless there is 100% proof.

    The execution is rather merciful, especially compared to the US for example, where people who get executed are often in terrible pain for a comparatively long time. A very humane move on the part of KJU. Even more so when we consider that executions in general and executions by gunpowder weapons are favoured by some in the US to save taxpayer money whereas noone in NK complains about the cost of the use of large caliber rounds of a more sophisticated design such as AA rounds or mortar rounds.

    That people spread all this anti-korean hate-propaganda about the Great Leader who wants to Make Korea Great Again is mind-boggling, you can't always assume the worst. That's called a bias.

    Merciful in its brevity mayhap. And I always thought the firing squad was the briefest and most appropriate execution choice for the USA (though I believe we should not execute our citizens for crimes. Removing the threat to the population is a must, but killing is not needed to accomplish that). The only state to use that method was Utah.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

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    Intelligent Idiot Member Tuuvi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Merciful in its brevity mayhap. And I always thought the firing squad was the briefest and most appropriate execution choice for the USA (though I believe we should not execute our citizens for crimes. Removing the threat to the population is a must, but killing is not needed to accomplish that). The only state to use that method was Utah.
    Going off on a tangent but I've been thinking about this lately and I agree. I'm against the death penalty as well but if we're going to have it I'd prefer firing squad over lethal injection, there's just something about medicalizing the act of execution that is more disturbing to me than execution itself.

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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuuvi View Post
    Going off on a tangent but I've been thinking about this lately and I agree. I'm against the death penalty as well but if we're going to have it I'd prefer firing squad over lethal injection, there's just something about medicalizing the act of execution that is more disturbing to me than execution itself.
    Michael Portillo did an investigation of methods of capital punishment, and concluded that all current methods were inhumane in one way or another, either to the condemned or to the executioner. One way, not currently used, seemed to fit all the criteria though: oxygen deprivation through replacement with inert gases. It was amusing to watch him squirming at the results of each test, or in some cases putting himself through the paces (through a lower non-lethal dosage, of course). In the last case, oxygen deprivation, he became more and more incoherent until he zoned out and the observer ended the experiment.

    Portillo Seconds From Death - Horizon:How to Kill a Human...

    Said documentary directly prompted Oklahoma to change its method of implementing the death penalty. AFAIK no executions have yet been done using the new method.
    Last edited by Pannonian; 02-28-2017 at 05:06.

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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Or since I brought up Arendt in the other thread:



    Supreme Leader's relative propensity to execute the disfavored has been a subject of discussion for a few years.

    A simple explanation is that there are genuine power struggles in the midst of a relatively-young rule and the impending fruition of the nuclear armament card against the backdrop of increasing global uncertainty/instability. Or KJU is just a crazy/evil fool, whatever.
    Although us civilians will not know the details, it is possible that South Korea's multi-layered missile defense system is so far ahead of North Korea's ballistics program that top officials are re-thinking the strategy to pursue nuclear weapons.

    The whole idea of nukes is the ability to wipe out your enemy. If you have them but can't even effectively use them it just makes you a target. When it comes down to it, China would rather eat up the country and the millions of poor NK's rather than have SK/US forces on their border.
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Well, the threat itself is paramount. Even if ROK has the most effective anti-nuclear shield in the world (to China's chagrin?), it doesn't reduce incentives for North Korea's regime to progress in its nuclear program.

    China might prefer annexation to Korean reunification in a least-worst case (debatable given projected medium-term costs to Korea), but there isn't really any internationally-grounded justification that China can use to do it other than 'peace-keeping' in stead of a UN action. Do they then maintain the occupation by manufacturing or fomenting violent North Korean resistance?
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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    You mean they cant pull another tibet?
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    TBH of the various standard execution methods I have heard of being shot would probably be my first choice. Of the widely used ones, if making love to beautiful women is an option then probably that one.

    I think lethal injection is horrific, the electric chair is barbaric and hanging is pretty disturbing as well, of the American ones? (am I missing any) it is only shooting I think of as somewhat humane.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    I don't believe you can be dead at once when shot in the heart. Arab/French way is probably the most humane.

    As for the great leader, is he really in charge. His brother was murdered. He had his favorite uncle being torn apart by dogs. Or did he, and was he forced to watch it.
    Last edited by Fragony; 02-28-2017 at 10:25.
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    The Red Titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    You mean they cant pull another tibet?
    or another Crimea from Putin's playbook.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    They would have to explain how they changed their minds on the otherwise-consensus matter of Korean national sovereignty - a Korean state for the Korean peninsula - and how it impacts their arguments on the importance of national sovereignty and non-interference which they regularly promulgate on the international stage.

    If they can grab a chunk of the Korean peninsula in the interest of 'totally temporary (some day)' pacification, why can't India or America or the UN go into Tibet? Russia or the 'stans into Xinjiang?
    Last edited by Montmorency; 02-28-2017 at 15:54.
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly View Post
    TBH of the various standard execution methods I have heard of being shot would probably be my first choice. Of the widely used ones, if making love to beautiful women is an option then probably that one.

    I think lethal injection is horrific, the electric chair is barbaric and hanging is pretty disturbing as well, of the American ones? (am I missing any) it is only shooting I think of as somewhat humane.
    All 50 states, the DC, the US military, and the Federal government list lethal injection as the primary choice for execution whenever such a sentence is rendered. Electrocution, Hanging, Poison Gas, Hypoxia, and the firing squad are alternative forms used when the primary method is unavailable due to supplies or because of a court injunction against the methodology.

    I was wrong, earlier, about Utah being the only firing squad state. Apparently, given all the problems with lethal injection drugs, Oklahoma added firing squads as a method as well.
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    The guillotine was, reputedly, the fastest way to end a life through execution (which some would argue makes it the most humane, however messy).
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    I don't believe you can be dead at once when shot in the heart. Arab/French way is probably the most humane.

    As for the great leader, is he really in charge. His brother was murdered. He had his favorite uncle being torn apart by dogs. Or did he, and was he forced to watch it.
    I think the most humane way of execution is the way the Soviets did it. Unexpected firing of a pistol at the back of the head. No ceremonies no nothing, just unexpected end.
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    or another Crimea from Putin's playbook.
    Tibet, Crimea...really boil down to a simple metric. How much blood and treasure are you willing to expend to stop the aggressor? Unless you are willing to pay in that coin, the aggressor will continue to do as they wish.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Tibet, Crimea...really boil down to a simple metric. How much blood and treasure are you willing to expend to stop the aggressor? Unless you are willing to pay in that coin, the aggressor will continue to do as they wish.
    Of all countries, Britain should not recognise Chinese authority over Tibet. We conquered it fair and square, and we have a treaty to prove our case.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagemusha View Post
    I think the most humane way of execution is the way the Soviets did it. Unexpected firing of a pistol at the back of the head. No ceremonies no nothing, just unexpected end.
    Yes, every method that doesn't immediately obliterate the brain kills through oxygen deprivation and unless the person passes out from shock, they sort of live through it for a few seconds until the brain begins to shut down.
    Since pistol bullets can fail to penetrate a skull, the AA gun or a big explosive device should be the weapon of choice here, preferably unexpected, but that can be harder to arrange in this instance. A drone/air strike that hits dead center with a missile that flies faster than the sound should do the trick. It's possible to do with animals because we know the meat is worse if they die under stress.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/heres...us-2015-6?IR=T


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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Of all countries, Britain should not recognise Chinese authority over Tibet. We conquered it fair and square, and we have a treaty to prove our case.
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  24. #24
    Member Member Shaka_Khan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    The way I look at it, I think the number of executions show how desperate KJU is being. And unlike the earlier defectors from NK, the later ones are saying that the North Korean regime could collapse. There are high-ranking North Koreans defecting because of the fear of the purge that goes on in North Korea.

    The missile tests seem to work if it's a political move. It's chilling the relationship between China and South Korea because it's making South Korea order and deploy THAAD, which China and Russia are strongly against. (I don't know if it has been done yet). I read that it could detect the launching sites in China and Russia in East Asia. This deployment also acts as part of a defence shield for the United States.
    Last edited by Shaka_Khan; 03-01-2017 at 00:58.
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    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Well, the threat itself is paramount. Even if ROK has the most effective anti-nuclear shield in the world (to China's chagrin?), it doesn't reduce incentives for North Korea's regime to progress in its nuclear program.
    How so? It raises the stakes of international conduct drastically.
    It's one thing to hear NK talk about destroying Seoul when all they have is 40+ year old artillery (and perhaps whatever old equipment China has sold them since then).

    The regime is close to a black hole of information, coupled that with the fact that you simply cannot have a mad man with nukes. If you have no intel on their inner workings then how long will the current international order remain as we all guess whether the Kim family remains in power for another year? I just don't feel as if either the US or China is willing to tolerate such uncertainty.

    China might prefer annexation to Korean reunification in a least-worst case (debatable given projected medium-term costs to Korea), but there isn't really any internationally-grounded justification that China can use to do it other than 'peace-keeping' in stead of a UN action. Do they then maintain the occupation by manufacturing or fomenting violent North Korean resistance?
    Does the Chinese government really care that much about having to manufacture a "just cause"?
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    How so? It raises the stakes of international conduct drastically.
    It's one thing to hear NK talk about destroying Seoul when all they have is 40+ year old artillery (and perhaps whatever old equipment China has sold them since then).
    You know that 40 year old guns firing projectiles with high explosive material are just about as deadly at the point of impact as modern guns firing the same amount of high explosive material? And North Korea supposedly has very, very large amounts of artllery. Not to forget that there was/is already artillery that can fire small nuclear warheads... (not that NK has them...yet)
    I'm not even sure all their artillery is that old or from China anyway, they seem to produce quite a few versions of their own.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean...orce#Artillery

    http://www.businessinsider.com/why-n...ar-2013-4?IR=T

    North Korea experts Victor Cha and David Kang posted on the website of Foreign Policy magazine late last month that the North can fire 500,000 rounds of artillery on Seoul in the first hour of a conflict.
    They are unlikely to win a conflict as the article further mentions, but they can cause a whole lot of casualties right away.
    It would however be a very big mess at the very least and result in the deaths of probably millions of people.
    A missile defense system alone does not make a country safe. There are very modern systems that can defend against mortar or artillery rounds and so on, but they have a short range and can probably not defend a country against this much artillery anyway.

    I see little gain in anyone starting a conflict with North Korea no that they have nuclear weapons anyway.
    Any solution of the conflict will have to be in agreement with their regime, come from an internal revoution or is likely to become very, very deadly for many people in the vicinity and in range of their missiles and artillery.

    As for KJU being a crazy mandman, I'm not so sure. There were those rumors about him wanting to slowly open up the country and apparently they weren't so wrong.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ore-shows-how/

    But North Korea is very tentatively toying with some capitalist ideas, setting up about 20 special economic zones around the country, allowing farmers to keep and sell more of their produce, and tolerating more nascent activity in the jangmadang, or local markets, around the country.
    I assume one has to separate the military grandstanding from the actual direction the country is taking. It is even possible that KJU does want to open up the country but others oppose him and need to be disposed of because he'll look weak to other potential opponents otherwise. I mean their entire leadership is probably a fascist snake pit where the smallest sign of weakness would make someone else crush him and take over...

    I'd not expect a peaceful change to happen overnight either way. Just look at China and how it developed from Mao until now. It is still nowhere near a Norway, but maybe it needs time. Perhaps it will turn into a desert before it really changes, but uhm, yeah...
    Last edited by Husar; 03-01-2017 at 02:19.


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  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    How so? It raises the stakes of international conduct drastically.
    It's one thing to hear NK talk about destroying Seoul when all they have is 40+ year old artillery (and perhaps whatever old equipment China has sold them since then).

    The regime is close to a black hole of information, coupled that with the fact that you simply cannot have a mad man with nukes. If you have no intel on their inner workings then how long will the current international order remain as we all guess whether the Kim family remains in power for another year? I just don't feel as if either the US or China is willing to tolerate such uncertainty.
    Why? The fact of the matter is that, after Clinton called off the air strikes in 1994 or thereabouts the North's nuclear program has become increasingly dispersed, increasingly shielded, and increasingly more difficult to neutralize without ground intervention.

    At this point, let's say the program is still not complete (for the purpose of a viable weapon or system). Right now, it is likely already impossible to set back their efforts by more than a few months, even with all-out aerial attacks throughout the country.

    Once they demonstrably have viable weapons, it will become meaningless. Deterrence will be the only option left short of a major Asian land war.

    Whatever happens with the North Korean government right now, they are firmly in the advantage. They bought their time.

    Does the Chinese government really care that much about having to manufacture a "just cause"?
    They would if it undermines the logic they use to defend their interests in the South China Sea and Central Asia. China's leadership isn't careless, at least not in how they approach international relations and construct its rhetoric.
    Vitiate Man.

  28. #28
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Why?
    Because the US leadership is also unstable.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.
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  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Because the US leadership is also unstable.
    maybe he can send in the navy Seals
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  30. #30
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is North Korea's Leader losing it?

    I think the best outcome we can reasonably hope for is that the chinese say "fuck it, he's gone too far" and pull the plug; end the kim bloodline, let the korean brass dissapear into an mongolian gulag and turn the ruins into yet another Chinese province.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-01-2017 at 03:35.
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