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Thread: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of identity?

  1. #91
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    But the EU, being more socialist in approach than the UK, makes sure regions don't lose out simply because they're of little political importance. I made this point about Cornwall immediately after the referendum, predicting that Westminster will, as is its wont, concentrate funding on London projects whilst neglecting the peripheries. And true to form, a several billion pound project has been approved for London, while Cornwall's post-Brexit replacement for the current 100m pa EU grant will be 10m.
    Ah, I read about that, for a 3 year period starting a few months ago britain will only give cornwall 18 million.

    I notice you forgot to mention that for the majority of those three years the EU funding wont be interrupted by brexit.

    Any UK funding for those three years would be adding extra on top of the 60 million the EU will give it each year.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-23-2017 at 20:45.
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  2. #92
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    I think the map I posted took every seperatist movement they could find, with no regard to the amount of militancy the separatists employ.
    The Bavarian separatism is not comparable to the catalonian one I think and the other ones in Germany seem to be based on similarly frail movements I never heard about before.
    To me it looks like three people made it for a university course, going by the names and quotation style, etc. I'm assuming the accuracy also begins to lack a bit outside of Europe, Kurdistan is really an easy one.
    I posted it as a funny what if, to show how divided Europe really could be if everyone who speaks up got their own country. Just look at how divided the UK is on that map. The point is that the whole "the central government in XY is not taking us seriously/not giving us enough representation" and so on works on many levels and nations are similar social constructs to the EU, they're just older and usually more settled in.


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  3. #93
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    I want to see the map with the overlap included. There's no way indulging every movement in europe would divide europe so cleanly.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
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  4. #94
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    I want to see the map with the overlap included. There's no way indulging every movement in europe would divide europe so cleanly.
    That's clean division?

    To the point, that's what war is for. Westfailure 2.0*

    *I don't regret this
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  5. #95
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    I want to see the map with the overlap included. There's no way indulging every movement in europe would divide europe so cleanly.
    As Monty says, this map is obviously after the great separatist wars of 2025. I haven't seen a map with the overlapping territorial demands, so I guess you're free to make one.


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  6. #96
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    As Monty says, this map is obviously after the great separatist wars of 2025. I haven't seen a map with the overlapping territorial demands, so I guess you're free to make one.
    That would be the map of the great nationalistis war of 2030.
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  7. #97
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    By the way, this is a map of Europe with every separatist movement getting what it wants:

    Attachment 19550
    Why is Winchester outside Wessex?

    One day, when we are free of the Norman Yoke Alfred's holy city will once more be our capital.
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  8. #98
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Why is Winchester outside Wessex?
    I think it is only on the map as the capital of Wessex, has to be so close to the border that it almost appears to be outside.


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  9. #99
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Why is Winchester outside Wessex?

    One day, when we are free of the Norman Yoke Alfred's holy city will once more be our capital.
    It's a map from 2025/2030. So Winchester is a suburb of London, which is part of England. If you don't like it, you can move to Colchester, which is a northern suburb of London, or Canterbury, which is a southern suburb.

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  10. #100
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    It's a map from 2025/2030. So Winchester is a suburb of London, which is part of England. If you don't like it, you can move to Colchester, which is a northern suburb of London, or Canterbury, which is a southern suburb.
    There will be no London, we shall burn it to the ground.
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  11. #101
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    There will be no London, we shall burn it to the ground.
    Are you a baker, perchance?

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  12. #102
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom; The European Union; NATO: which is the primary sense of ident

    Looks like the EU might be coming back before it was even gone: http://www.zeit.de/politik/2017-03/e...ture-economics

    But a few weeks ago, the Pulse of Europe appeared in public squares for the first time. It is a pro-European, grass-roots movement that now has presence in 60 cities – above all in Germany, but also in the Netherlands, France, Portugal and even Great Britain. Its advocates – tens of thousands as of late – meet regularly on Sundays in Freiburg, Berlin and Bad Kreuznach, as well as Lyon and Lisbon. And in Frankfurt, where everything began.
    [...]
    So Europe’s advocates have adopted the following argument: In a world where developing countries are becoming richer and more powerful, European states will soon be too small to survive. Only through joint European effort can outside countries be precluded from deciding the fate of Europe. Jean Monnet made the same point long ago. "Our countries have become too small for today’s world," wrote the pioneer of European integration in 1954. The argument may even be more accurate in the 21st century than in the previous, but it didn’t stick. The idea that the E.U. is a collection pot for enfeebled nation states in the era of globalization became a small-minded, defensive narrative incapable of capturing anyone’s imagination. Not E.U. skeptics – because in that sort of hostile world, they were particularly determined to depend solely on the citizens of their own countries. Not the pro-Europeans – because they bemoaned the lack of grandeur and sublimity. And finally, not the level-headed pragmatics – because shoulder-to-shoulder with America, things just couldn’t get so bad.
    I've made that last argument for a while already, Monnet was obviously a very clever man. The little-ism of division and seccession will bite people in the arse sooner or later.

    The European Union is in a much better condition than Europeans want to believe. Ms. Mogherini speaks about human rights, adherence to the law, dependability, equal rights, the fight against climate change. In all these areas, the E.U. is admired by others. She hears this repeatedly from her conversation partners outside Europe. Proud of the E.U.? Admiration for Europe? Take only a single step beyond its borders, she says, and the perspective changes.
    And it keeps on giving:

    If they were allowed to vote on the membership of their country in the E.U., 70 percent of all E.U. citizens would decide in favor of the institution. This is the finding of a study recently published by the Bertelsmann Foundation. In March 2016, before the British referendum on the E.U., the figure was 65 percent. The change of heart is even more apparent in another question: 66 percent of all E.U. citizens report that friends or colleagues speak positively about the E.U. Before Brexit, it was only 47 percent.
    [...]
    But this fundamental support for the E.U. is no free ride and certainly not a return to the old doctrine of an ever closer union. This is also apparent from the Bertelsmann study. In spite of the esteem in which many hold the E.U., support for further political and economic integration has declined in most countries.
    Last edited by Husar; 03-27-2017 at 13:11.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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