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Thread: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

  1. #61
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    You see, we are losing the war of ideas - bit by bit, day by day.

    I am getting older, and watching my country destroy itself because it can't fight this enemy it can't pin down is, frankly, exhausting.
    A shooting war of the kind you hanker after is still irrelevant though. There's no point in winning an irrelevant war while the relevant points remain unaddressed. It's why the Iraq war was stupid, and I said so from the start.

  2. #62
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Lets apply some conflict narrative analysis to this conflict (and narrative analysis is one appropriate tool as many (most) people are more "narratively" motivated than are "ratio-legally" motivated.

    Questions to ask the parties to the conflict:

    What would victory look like?

    What routes, if any, can generate such a victory as you have defined it?

    What tools and resources are available to pursue these routes?

    What is your history of this conflict?

    What makes the other party's (ies') view of this conflict incorrect?
    There will be victory when British Muslims aggressively define themselves as British rather than Muslim. Why aggressively? Because laissez faire is looked down on by those who tend towards these actions.

  3. #63
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    There will be victory when British Muslims aggressively define themselves as British rather than Muslim. Why aggressively? Because laissez faire is looked down on by those who tend towards these actions.
    Hmm...
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    I was brought up to be politically correct. Except it was called respect and regard for others back then.
    Either you have rebelled against your upbringing or there's a Princess Bride quote about the meaning of words that I think is appropriate here.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-24-2017 at 22:45.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
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  4. #64
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Hmm...

    Either you have rebelled against your upbringing or there's a Princess Bride quote about the meaning of words that I think is appropriate here.
    Or that you've missed the point entirely. I actually went on to explain, with examples, what I meant. But even spelling it out isn't enough for you.

  5. #65
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    No, I understood you point exactly. Political correctness does not mean what you think it means.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-24-2017 at 22:54.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  6. #66
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    No, I understood you point exactly. Political correctness does not mean what you think it means.
    So what does it mean?

  7. #67
    Ask Hooahguy (Not Here) Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    So what does it mean?
    According to Define: Political Correctness in google...

    political correctness
    noun
    noun: political correctness; noun: political correctitude

    The avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

  8. #68
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    I think the most charitable explanation is that you have not been paying attention.
    You don't mean here that I should consider you a fascist.
    Vitiate Man.

  9. #69
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    So what does it mean?
    'The avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.'

    There is no qualifier on what determines whose perception of that expression or action as offensive is to be adhiered to or what socially disadvantaged or discriminated entails. This means that political correctness is a term encompasses all scenarios where a person's perception of exclusion, marginalization or insult against a socially disadvantaged or discriminated person or group, regardless of reason on the part of the person.

    The mere lack of acknowledgment is an aggressive exclusion, ignorance is active hate, a 1/16th cherokee billionaire is a poor discriminated minority and a black mayor with an excellent track record but running on a republican ticket is a uncle tom. All these views are technically valid under the umbrella of political correctness, for it makes no accomidation for the value of the perceptions regardless of the political motive or mental stability behind them.

    This results in a term that covers the spectrum of reason, from the eminently rational principle adopted by nearly everyone that calling a black man a nigger makes the speaker an asshole, to the irrational dictum held by various ex communists that to even imply or suggest immigrants should assimilate in any way regardless of social status, as you did, makes the person expressing the view a racist or other non person.

    You were brought up to have respect and regards for others. Political correctness has no claim to be the name of this style of upbringing; being taught to "respect proper Tories and small c conservatives", "respect boundaries between people" and adheir to "communal responsibility" is not being brought up to be politically correct any more than being taught the skill of plucking a chicken means you were brought up to be an animal abuser.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-25-2017 at 00:06.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  10. #70
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    According to Define: Political Correctness in google...

    political correctness
    noun
    noun: political correctness; noun: political correctitude

    The avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.
    That's what I thought. But according to GB, in his inimitable way, I don't get the meaning of the term. So I'm wondering what it is that I don't get, especially as in my previous post I'd specifically explained myself, in detail, with examples.

  11. #71
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    You don't mean here that I should consider you a fascist.
    I mean that nobody who has known me for over half a decade, as you have, should have any reason to think me a Fascist. If you entertain the possibility then, clearly, you have not been paying attention.

    You probably don't know that Strike is a Jewish-lapsed-Baptist who works in a Butcher's shop, either.

    Or that he has some interesting jewellery.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  12. #72
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    'The avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.'

    There is no qualifier on what determines whose perception of that expression or action as offensive is to be adhiered to or what socially disadvantaged or discriminated entails. This means that political correctness is a term encompasses all scenarios where a person's perception of exclusion, marginalization or insult against a socially disadvantaged or discriminated person or group, regardless of reason on the part of the person.

    This results in a term that covers the spectrum of reason, from the eminently rational principle adopted by nearly everyone that calling a black man a nigger makes the speaker a bigot, to the irrational dictum held by various ex communists that to even imply or suggest immigrants should assimilate in any way regardless of social status, as you did, makes the person expressing the view a racist or other non person.

    You were brought up to have respect and regards for others. Political correctness has no claim to be the name of this style of upbringing; being taught to "respect proper Tories and small c conservatives", "respect boundaries between people" and adheir to "communal responsibility" is not being brought up to be politically correct any more than being taught the skill of plucking a chicken means you were brought up to be an animal abuser.
    Political correctness, as a term, is usually used to decry how social norms means one can't be as offensive as one wishes to be. Having lived amongst proper, old school Tories for a while, I've never lived in a community where being deliberately offensive was a social norm. The kind of tip-toeing that criticism of political correctness defines as characteristic of that idea, was also part of the Tory values I've seen.
    Last edited by Pannonian; 03-25-2017 at 00:07.

  13. #73
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Political correctness, as a term, is usually used to decry how social norms means one can't be as offensive as one wishes to be. Having lived amongst proper, old school Tories for a while, I've never lived in a community where being deliberately offensive was a social norm. The kind of tip-toeing that criticism of political correctness defines as characteristic of that idea, was also part of the Tory values I've seen.
    That is your bias showing.

    Those old school Tories act like the punks of old, rebelling against the establishment by being intentionally offensive. Political correctness as a term is used to decry how social norms are being twisted and exploited to silence speech that the listener dislikes and I dare say all of your Tory neighbours will say the same, but because you come from a different political camp you dont want to believe they mean it and so you look upon them with the same derisive eye those old school tories once held for the thuggish delinquents so long ago.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-25-2017 at 00:22.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  14. #74
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    That is your bias showing.

    Those old school Tories act like the punks of old, rebelling against the establishment by being intentionally offensive. Political correctness as a term is used to decry how social norms are being twisted and exploited to silence speech that the listener dislikes and I dare say all of your Tory neighbours will say the same, but because you come from a different political camp you dont want to believe they mean it and so you look upon them with the same derisive eye those old school tories once held for the thuggish delinquents so long ago.
    The old school Tories I'm talking about were the establishment. Or at least they supported the established order, CofE, pre-WW2 lifestyle, and all the rest of it. Read up on Wellington for the archetypal Tory, seen in a rather milder form in my old neighbours, but with the same mindset.

  15. #75
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    That is irrelevant; they havent been the establishment for over 25 years.

    Tories have long been unable to dictate how people dress or act or speak or think; They have yet to discredit the marks of shame that thier rivals weild effectively and they have yet to develop a new scarlet letter.

    What power they have had has been solely legal, not social, and with the left's domination in the field the tory's mindset has become rebellion in this age.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-25-2017 at 00:53.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  16. #76
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    That is irrelevant; they havent been the establishment for over 25 years.

    Tories have long been unable to dictate how people speak or dress or act; They have yet to discredit the marks of shame that thier rivals weild effectively and they have yet to develop a new scarlet letter.

    As such the tory's mindset has become rebellion in this age.
    Well, I did say old school Tories. That is, born and bred Tories for generations, with family members who are well and truly part of the establishment. The type who are entirely comfortable and confident with who they are, without any sense of needing to put others down.

  17. #77
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    The old establisment are the new rebels, to be socially conservative is to be controversial this liberal age, though the pendulum is begining to swing back.

    C'est La Vive
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-25-2017 at 01:06.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  18. #78
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    The old establisment are the new rebels, to be socially conservative is to be controversial this liberal age, though the pendulum is begining to swing back.

    C'est La Vive
    Erm, you've missed my point, that I made in post 54. To old school Tories of the kind I've lived amongst in the past, social conservatism and "political correctness" amount to the same thing in practice, even if approached from different directions. What liberals do out of respect for different cultures, they do out of good manners.

  19. #79
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Which I addressed that post 69, that political correctness covers much more than what conservatives do out of politeness and to equate the two is bluntly wrong.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  20. #80
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    In a topic called 'A literal attack on British democracy' what I said is random? Are you sure you are good at this?
    Where in the topic is the political correctness?


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  21. #81
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    I mean that nobody who has known me for over half a decade, as you have, should have any reason to think me a Fascist.
    What I said was that I don't - think of you as a fascist.
    Vitiate Man.

  22. #82
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    What I said was that I don't - think of you as a fascist.
    Then use proper English!

    For Pete's sake man, why is there a hyphen in the middle of a sentence with a single clause here?

    I think you have succumbed to some sort of exaggerated prose style, it's frankly border-line unintelligible at times.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  23. #83
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Where in the topic is the political correctness?
    hmmmm, look above
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    this supports and the people from

  24. #84
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    hmmmm, look above
    Unbelievable...


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  25. #85
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Unbelievable...
    What is ubelievable, you found that candy you knew you had in your pocket and you knew was there all the time but couldn't find? What else is unbelievable.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    this supports and the people from

  26. #86
    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    I haven't read the thread, but I assume there is a noisy majority suggesting some vague war of civilisations and that we should "get tougher" while a few drowned voices are trying to point out the futility and brainlessness of such a contention?

    If someone can summarise, much obliged etc
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

  27. #87
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Advocating inaction is shown to be closer to insanity with each murder.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-25-2017 at 17:47.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  28. #88
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    If someone can summarise, much obliged etc
    You just did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Advocating inaction is shown to be closer to insanity with each murder.
    Implying that everything other than going to a war economy and full-scale war against an insurgency equals inaction is beyond insanity.
    Last edited by Husar; 03-25-2017 at 17:53.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  29. #89
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    Which I didnt

    Have you lost the ability to tell me and PVC apart?

    Did you ever have it to begin with?
    Last edited by Greyblades; 03-25-2017 at 18:19.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  30. #90
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Literal Attack on British Democracy

    So, what would be the appropriate response?

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