Last edited by Greyblades; 03-29-2017 at 21:13.
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
Last edited by Idaho; 03-30-2017 at 12:37.
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
I take his point though. If the wall building is prompted by the dislike for the neighbor, there is a passive aggressive quality to it.
Which brings us to the latest "wall" in the news. Trump's Wall on the southern border. If prompted by a need to self protect it makes sense; if prompted by a motivation to ignore Mexico, that's a bit unhealthy....as is most passive aggression.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Are we moving to discuss semantics? Then:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/aggression
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
It represents an attack on the Mexican economy and possibly on the political stability of Mexico itself. In allowing/sending undocumented workers to El Norte (along with those entering legally for work), the Mexican government has been both supplementing its economy directly ($23B in remittances each year) and by extension, NOT having to provide welfare and services itself to replace those monies. It has been argued that illegals function as a US corporate subsidy to the Mexican government. An increase in any real "barrier" would thus exert economic pressure on Mexico.
Moreover, any such barrier (and it would NOT be a fence from sea to shining sea, except metaphorically) would also make it more difficult for illegals from Central America to travel successfully through Mexico on "La Bestia" or by other routes as well as hamper the flow of illegal drugs. This is likely to incite further, not reduced, violence from the cartels who are already challenging the Mexican government's functional control of the Northern provinces.
This 'wall' would represent a significant "encroachment" on the current way of doing business on the Southern Border.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Seamus doesn't just refer to physical walls. He also cites legal walls, ie. the tighter enforcement of existing laws that theoretically prevents illegals (these laws exist, otherwise they wouldn't be illegals). As for vagueness as a formula for laws: that's what courts and judges are for.
Gil'
If you define aggression solely on the basis of direct impingement upon another, then no, it is not aggression. In his earlier post, I am pretty sure that Idaho was using the term much more broadly, and I was responding along those lines.
Our choice to build a 'wall' on our Sothern border (and yes, Trump would greatly extend the physical portions of that wall as well as electronic surveillance and the legal hurdles rightly noted by Pannonian), could not be stopped by Mexico -- it is our choice of actions upon our terrain and would in no way deny human rights to Mexicans -- you can be darn well certain that the presence of this wall WOULD impinge on Mexican interests, and you can be nearly as certain that they would perceive it to be an act of aggression, even if they did not claim it a casum belllum.
I am, personally, very much in favor of improving the security of our Southern border and curtailing illegal 'immigration.' I am not sure that a physical wall is the best choice, leaning more toward what Pannonian emphasized.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
If a nation takes some big scale steps there will always be another nation (or a group of foreigners) whose interests will be impinged on. Yet I think not all those actions can be qualified as aggression per se. But viewing things in a broader light one might even call aggression severe repemanding your neighbors' kids for raiding your mailbox.
Most minors arrested by the IDF experience violence:
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/....ampaign=buffer60 percent say experienced violence, only 10 percent met with a lawyer | In 2013, a UNICEF report said Israel was systematically abusing young detainees, new data shows little has changed
This is the kind of thing that can only be justified if you see these kids as less human than you.
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
And any number of parents will tell you that they have reprimanded a neighbor's children for some such little offense, only to have their neighbors tell them to "Back off, I will discipline my own children, it is not your job" taking affront (perceived aggression) at the neighbor's for 'threatening' their children.
Defending one's own should NOT be perceived as aggression, mind you, but in our irrational world it often is so perceived.
And I have been the parent yelling at the kids to stop wrecking my bushes, and WAS told to 'leave my children to me.'
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
When you have a rather hostile neighbour and they start stocking up on guns and ammos... no way aggressive action?
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Don't you get bored from arguing semantics?
It's obviously clear what they wanted to say by now and even if they worded it wrong, isn't it time to let it go?
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
More evidence that while Israel is colonising the west Bank, its squeezing Gaza to destruction. Border crossing permits are currently 2% of the level of 2000 and human rights activists are banned from entering.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs...tigations-gaza
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
End the occupation and blockade swiftly? Yes, I agree. These are stateless people who are deliberately denied a state and whose infrastructure and political structures are constantly targeted for destruction. It's a slow and constant pogrom and is backed up by the world's biggest military and economic power.
Someone will come along and tell you it's all OK because Iraq has no Jews or because Saudi is run by ****s.
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
Bookmarks