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Thread: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Ken Livingstone, former London Mayor, is currently being investigated for Anti-Antisemitism and could be thrown out of the Labour Party today.

    Who does he blame?

    The Jewish Chronicle and the Labour MP's who encouraged the paper to print "lies".

    Those would probably be Jewish Labour MP's.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39488931

    Long-time friend of the Labour leader, this guy.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Ken Livingstone is a d*ck? Whoa! Who knew?
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    I mean, a Jewish Palestine would have been an eaiser solution.

    most people assume a Zionist has positive feelings about the Jewish people. I guess that's where the confusion comes from?
    Last edited by Strike For The South; 04-05-2017 at 06:11.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Ken Livingstone is a d*ck? Whoa! Who knew?
    That's about as much words worth wasting on him
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    this supports and the people from

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    I mean, a Jewish Palestine would have been an eaiser solution.

    most people assume a Zionist has positive feelings about the Jewish people. I guess that's where the confusion comes from?
    He also said Jews wouldn't vote for him during Mayoral Elections because they're rich.

    He's a card-carrying anti-Semite.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    He also said Jews wouldn't vote for him during Mayoral Elections because they're rich.

    He's a card-carrying anti-Semite.
    Thats pretty much on the nose then.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers.


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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Although the ridiculous thing is that while his original comments were not in the best taste, they weren't entirely inaccurate. The Nazis did support zionism. The historical record is clear.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Although the ridiculous thing is that while his original comments were not in the best taste, they weren't entirely inaccurate. The Nazis did support zionism. The historical record is clear.
    In the sense that they could use Zion as a "Botany Bay" of sorts, yes, but that's not really a rainbows and sunshine thing.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Although the ridiculous thing is that while his original comments were not in the best taste, they weren't entirely inaccurate. The Nazis did support zionism. The historical record is clear.
    In the sense that they would let Jews leave, yes, but largely without their assets or personal possessions.

    It's not really "supporting" Zionism.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7009981.html

    "Under the agreement Jewish emigrants had to hand over their possessions before they left Germany, and the proceeds were used by a company specifically set up for this purpose in Tel Aviv to purchase German goods for sale in Palestine. The proceeds of these sales were then paid in Palestinian currency to the emigrants in Palestine."

    You'll note the huge opportunity for graft on the part of the Nazi's.

    Anyway - this isn't going away:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ionism-remarks

    Corbyn has been forced to launch ANOTHER Inquiry because Livingstone can't shut up about the Jewish conspiracy against him, which at the same time saying he wants Ken to "help Labour win elections."
    Last edited by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus; 04-05-2017 at 23:52.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    In the sense that they would let Jews leave, yes, but largely without their assets or personal possessions.

    It's not really "supporting" Zionism.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7009981.html

    "Under the agreement Jewish emigrants had to hand over their possessions before they left Germany, and the proceeds were used by a company specifically set up for this purpose in Tel Aviv to purchase German goods for sale in Palestine. The proceeds of these sales were then paid in Palestinian currency to the emigrants in Palestine."

    You'll note the huge opportunity for graft on the part of the Nazi's.

    Anyway - this isn't going away:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ionism-remarks

    Corbyn has been forced to launch ANOTHER Inquiry because Livingstone can't shut up about the Jewish conspiracy against him, which at the same time saying he wants Ken to "help Labour win elections."
    Corbyn doesn't like leaving his old friends in the lurch. Hence supporting his old campaigning mate against a fellow Labour (and Jewish) MP when the former made the usual media conspiracy remarks to said Labour MP at the launch of the Labour party report on anti-semitism, a report that identified that kind of remark as typical of anti-semitism on the British left. When Corbyn has to choose between his old friends on the far left and Labour MPs elected by the British people, he will back his friends every time.

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    Like the Parthian Boot Member Elmetiacos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    I genuinely believe Ken Livingstone has dementia. That's not just abuse, I think he does.
    'you owe it to that famous chick general whose name starts with a B'
    OILAM TREBOPALA INDI PORCOM LAEBO INDI INTAM PECINAM ELMETIACUI

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Corbyn doesn't like leaving his old friends in the lurch. Hence supporting his old campaigning mate against a fellow Labour (and Jewish) MP when the former made the usual media conspiracy remarks to said Labour MP at the launch of the Labour party report on anti-semitism, a report that identified that kind of remark as typical of anti-semitism on the British left. When Corbyn has to choose between his old friends on the far left and Labour MPs elected by the British people, he will back his friends every time.
    He's always been odious though - so he reflects badly on Corbyn, whether he's a "good Socialist" or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmetiacos View Post
    I genuinely believe Ken Livingstone has dementia. That's not just abuse, I think he does.
    See above-whilst you may well be right I would argue he alway s held these views, he's been coming out with stuff like this for years.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    In WW1, the Germans let Lenin travel back to Russia. Did they like Lenin? Or would they help an individual who had vowed to overthrow their country to do even more damage to a foe?

    In British Palestine, the British were dealing with terrorists fighting to have land returned to them from a few thousand years ago.

    Would Nazi Germany be quite happy to get rid of a problem and at the same time distract a major power with a larger problem? Probably - and let's not forget a few years later the USSR / UK and USA were all on the same side. Did we all suddenly love Commies - or did we need them and they need us?

    Ken does seem to have a problem with Jews. I have no insight why. But that doesn't automatically mean that everything he says is wrong, no if right in the best taste.

    There appears to be a desire that history is simple with bits that don't fit the narrative airbrushed out.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    In WW1, the Germans let Lenin travel back to Russia. Did they like Lenin? Or would they help an individual who had vowed to overthrow their country to do even more damage to a foe?

    In British Palestine, the British were dealing with terrorists fighting to have land returned to them from a few thousand years ago.

    Would Nazi Germany be quite happy to get rid of a problem and at the same time distract a major power with a larger problem? Probably - and let's not forget a few years later the USSR / UK and USA were all on the same side. Did we all suddenly love Commies - or did we need them and they need us?

    Ken does seem to have a problem with Jews. I have no insight why. But that doesn't automatically mean that everything he says is wrong, no if right in the best taste.

    There appears to be a desire that history is simple with bits that don't fit the narrative airbrushed out.

    What Ken said was that Hitler "supported Zionism before he went mad". The implication is that there was once a sane, reasonable, Hitler. In fact, the truth is that Hitler was happy to export his "Jewish problem" so long as the Jews left all their money behind, just as he was perfectly happy to kill them.

    Ken Livingstone is trying to argue that Hitler's thinking on Jews developed and hardened when in fact there's evidence he despised them even during WWI and considered them sub-Human. Hitler was never "reasonable" about Jews, the fact that he didn't always try to exterminate them just illustrates he wasn't principled in his hatred - it was essentially visceral.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    There probably was a sane, reasonable Hitler at some point. He got into the Army in WW1 and promoted. "Reasonable" is not an absolute, it depends on the audience.

    He was happy to export the "Jewish problem" just as the Zionists probably would accept aid from anyone who would help them against the "British Oppressors". A good old deal with the Devil.

    I have no idea whether he wanted to kill them all when he was 5, 15, 25 or later. To say that his failure to exterminate them all in some way makes it worse is nonsensical - if it was a visceral hatred, why wasn't he killing them as soon as he could wherever he could?

    He despised Jews. I'm sure he wasn't alone. And indeed others despised Irish / Blacks / Indians / whoever. His hatred is hardly unique.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ken Livingstone - blaming the Jewish Chronicle

    Hitler was willing to consider all options at once, with extermination on a longer timetable than the others - logistically understandable.

    A Final Solution, at least in theory, makes more sense if you're caught up in a massive war, because who wants the vermin around in the time of the nation's greatest peril? You can't afford lenience any longer.
    Vitiate Man.

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