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Thread: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

  1. #541
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    They had their say. They voted 'No.'
    Apparently they can vote again whenever they like, I heard it's called self-determination and allows them to just vote to leave whenever they feel like it.


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  2. #542
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Apparently they can vote again whenever they like, I heard it's called self-determination and allows them to just vote to leave whenever they feel like it.
    I like the notion of "You choose, you said no, live with it." and you are sat there thinking "Well, I said yes... not my choice at all".
    Last edited by Beskar; 10-14-2017 at 13:15.
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  3. #543
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    The question here is what did you expect? If you keep insulting your wife and then file for a divorce, would you expect her to skip the lawyer and give you 75%? Do you live in the same universe? And why does the country that kept arguing how competition is better anyway now whine when the EU acts in a competitive manner and turns out to be quite powerful? It's just pathetic...

    Now I'm getting positively nervous. This question seems to be bothering you so much that I think I have guessed your real identity:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  4. #544
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Apparently they can vote again whenever they like, I heard it's called self-determination and allows them to just vote to leave whenever they feel like it.
    The question is, are people allowed to change their mind when additional information comes in? The No vote in Scotland's independence referendum was based on economic arguments, and Brexit apart (and Scotland won't be allowed to make a separate decision from the UK), the information was largely correct. The Leave vote in the Brexit referendum was based on promises which the government and even the campaigners agree cannot be kept, other than the action of leaving the EU. Reducing immigration is not practically possible, the 350m/wk promise was repudiated by Farage the day after the referendum, Davis has rejected requests to reveal the studies commissioned to review the likely effects of Brexit, etc. Other than the action of leaving the EU, not a single promise made by the Leave campaign is being held to account, with the campaigners themselves admitting they were fantasies.

  5. #545
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Now I'm getting positively nervous. This question seems to be bothering you so much that I think I have guessed your real identity:
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    Agent J?
    I'm afraid I did not watch this movie that is based on my life.
    And yes, it's an important question because in his universe it appears to be normal to tell other people you hate them, want nothing to do with them anymore and then expect them to bend over backwards to comfort you as you leave them to rot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The question is, are people allowed to change their mind when additional information comes in? The No vote in Scotland's independence referendum was based on economic arguments, and Brexit apart (and Scotland won't be allowed to make a separate decision from the UK), the information was largely correct. The Leave vote in the Brexit referendum was based on promises which the government and even the campaigners agree cannot be kept, other than the action of leaving the EU. Reducing immigration is not practically possible, the 350m/wk promise was repudiated by Farage the day after the referendum, Davis has rejected requests to reveal the studies commissioned to review the likely effects of Brexit, etc. Other than the action of leaving the EU, not a single promise made by the Leave campaign is being held to account, with the campaigners themselves admitting they were fantasies.
    Of course they are not allowed to change their minds. That would be like science and science is just a scam anyway.
    They do however have the right to leave Britain any day based on a (new) gut feeling.

    This is also true for London of course. It was conquered by Wessex at some point, doesn't want to pay so much in taxes for the other British regions and has its own distinct culture from them, it should really have a referendum to become its own nation.
    Last edited by Husar; 10-14-2017 at 14:05.


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  6. #546
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I'm afraid I did not watch this movie that is based on my life.
    And yes, it's an important question because in his universe it appears to be normal to tell other people you hate them, want nothing to do with them anymore and then expect them to bend over backwards to comfort you as you leave them to rot.
    You don't seem to be that exasperated by Fragony who essentially expresses the same attitude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  7. #547
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    You don't seem to be that exasperated by Fragony who essentially expresses the same attitude.
    You really seem desperate to push some red button. Is it fun for you to open Pandora's box?
    I've argued enough with him, last time I did he wanted to leave this place for good.
    Did you forget that or do you want a repetition?


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  8. #548
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    You really seem desperate to push some red button. Is it fun for you to open Pandora's box?
    I've argued enough with him, last time I did he wanted to leave this place for good.
    Did you forget that or do you want a repetition?
    Just some observations with no intention to ignite any conflict on these truly peaceful and hospitable boards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  9. #549
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Just some observations with no intention to ignite any conflict on these truly peaceful and hospitable boards.
    Then peace shall be with you, visitor.


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  10. #550
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    London voted no too. But we'll have to live with the idiocy of Brexit, voted for by people who want to cut immigration. Despite immigration levels being inversely proportional to the strength of the Brexit vote: the whiter the population and the lower the immigration level experienced, the more they want to cut immigration.
    I was actually referencing Scotland's own referendum.

    I have seen the polling maps that noted the Brexit vote was Scotland and the cities being outvoted by the rest of the countryside.
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  11. #551
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    New figures show Britain £500bn poorer than thought

    Britain is £490bn (€550bn) poorer than thought and no longer has any reserve of net foreign assets to help protect against any damage to the economy from Brexit.

    The revision to the national accounts in the Office of National Statistic's (ONS) so-called Blue Book means that the UK's net international investment position has collapsed from a surplus of £469bn to a net deficit of £22bn - equivalent to a quarter of GDP.

    The revised figures show the country owns far fewer international assets and owes far more to foreign investors than previously thought.

    "Half a trillion pounds has gone missing," said Mark Capleton, the UK rates strategist at Bank of America.
    The effective writedown in the value of "UK plc" could make it harder to defend sterling and the British debt markets against a run on the pound after Britain leaves the European Union.

    It comes as the Brexit talks in Brussels reach a crucial stage.
    Treasury officials are already braced for "gloomy" OECD forecasts which are due to give its two-yearly update on the state of the UK economy today.

    The ONS overestimated how many financial assets Britons own overseas and foreign investment in the UK.
    Company profits were lower than forecast, and a large amount of supposed assets held by firms were in fact disguised forms of lending to UK households.

    The revision is disturbing given that foreign direct investment into Britain has collapsed, plummeting from a net £120bn in the first half of last year to a net outflow of £25bn this year.
    The apparent resilience of these flows shortly after the Brexit referendum was an illusion, since the funds had already been committed earlier.
    At what point will Leavers recognise that their decision has monumentally buggered up the British economy?

  12. #552
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    The revision to the national accounts in the Office of National Statistic's (ONS) so-called Blue Book means that the UK's net international investment position has collapsed from a surplus of £469bn to a net deficit of £22bn - equivalent to a quarter of GDP.

    The revised figures show the country owns far fewer international assets and owes far more to foreign investors than previously thought.
    I dont understand this, why would a reduction in owned assets increase our debt? Surely the debt is unaffected.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 10-16-2017 at 08:45.
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  13. #553

    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Britain's best choice is pretty clear.
    Join Canada. Britain would get NAFTA, which might cushion the shock of leaving the EU. No hard choices to make really as we share much of the same public infrastructure already.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/naft...nada-1.4353341

    The idea seems to have started as a lark, but when you think about it, it really makes sense.
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  14. #554
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny View Post
    Britain's best choice is pretty clear.
    Join Canada. Britain would get NAFTA, which might cushion the shock of leaving the EU. No hard choices to make really as we share much of the same public infrastructure already.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/naft...nada-1.4353341

    The idea seems to have started as a lark, but when you think about it, it really makes sense.
    "Donald Trump is threatening again to terminate the North American Free Trade Agreement if Canada and Mexico don’t agree to his ultimatums."

  15. #555
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    "Donald Trump is threatening again to terminate the North American Free Trade Agreement if Canada and Mexico don’t agree to his ultimatums."
    And unthinkingly or not, dropping nafta would be supported by Trump voters. A reasonable deal with Canada would replace it though. Most trumpeteers deplore the trade/econ problems from our Southern neighbor far more.
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  16. #556

    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    The pain will go both ways if Trump blows up NAFTA.
    Canada will of course be hurt to a greater degree, but it will not go well in the U.S.
    At present, Trump's demands amount to little more than an attempt at blackmail.
    "Tough bargaining", sure but usually one makes demands that might even be met.

    A nice overview of the deal, the issues and process:

    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...beandmail.com&
    Last edited by HopAlongBunny; 10-16-2017 at 14:42.
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    QUOTE=HopAlongBunny;2053764552]The pain will go both ways if Trump blows up NAFTA.
    Canada will of course be hurt to a greater degree, but it will not go well in the U.S.
    At present, Trump's demands amount to little more than an attempt at blackmail.
    "Tough bargaining", sure but usually one makes demands that might even be met.

    A nice overview of the deal, the issues and process:

    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...beandmail.com&[/QUOTE]

    This kind of move is classic, old-school "I'm gonna make you blink first" bargaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daily Blog from the Negotiation Project; Harvard Law School
    Next, you need to prepare for your counterpart’s hard-bargaining tactics. To do so, you first will have to be able to identify them. In their book Beyond Winning: Negotiating to Create Value in Deals and Disputes, Robert Mnookin, Scott Peppet, and Andrew Tulumello offer advice to avoid being caught off-guard by hard bargainers. The better prepared we are for hard-bargaining strategies in negotiation, the better able we will be to defuse them.

    Here is a list of the 10 hardball tactics in negotiation to watch out for from the authors of Beyond Winning:
    1. Extreme demands followed up by small, slow concessions. Perhaps the most common of all hard-bargaining tactics, this one protects dealmakers from making concessions too quickly. However, it can keep parties from making a deal and unnecessarily drag out business negotiations. To head off this tactic, have a clear sense of your own goals, best alternative to a negotiated agreement (BATNA), and bottom line – and don’t be rattled by an aggressive opponent.
    The folks at the NP have made academic and consulting careers on countering this tactic alone.

    And The Donald simply loves to play hard-nosed/I'm tougher than you are/I can fool you negotiation games. He even wrote of a tactic in the art of the deal based on not washing your hands just after going to the bathroom before a meeting. The idea being that you would know that you'd just been handling your junk and that your handshake with the other folks meant that you were getting one over on them. You would thus be psyched to do a better, more powerful and dominating performance in the deal.

    He apparently adores bargaining head=games and dirty tricks.
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  18. #558
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny View Post
    The pain will go both ways if Trump blows up NAFTA.
    Canada will of course be hurt to a greater degree, but it will not go well in the U.S.
    At present, Trump's demands amount to little more than an attempt at blackmail.
    "Tough bargaining", sure but usually one makes demands that might even be met.

    A nice overview of the deal, the issues and process:

    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...beandmail.com&
    Population of the UK is double that of Canada. If the UK joined, its regions would become states and former UK territories would control 2/3 of your parliament. Not a good outcome for Canada by any means. However, the UK-brexiteers believe they can make the commonwealth into a quasi-EU controlled by London, sort of re-igniting the Empire sort of thing.
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  19. #559
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    QUOTE=HopAlongBunny;2053764552]The pain will go both ways if Trump blows up NAFTA.
    Canada will of course be hurt to a greater degree, but it will not go well in the U.S.
    At present, Trump's demands amount to little more than an attempt at blackmail.
    "Tough bargaining", sure but usually one makes demands that might even be met.

    A nice overview of the deal, the issues and process:

    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...beandmail.com&
    This kind of move is classic, old-school "I'm gonna make you blink first" bargaining.




    The folks at the NP have made academic and consulting careers on countering this tactic alone.

    And The Donald simply loves to play hard-nosed/I'm tougher than you are/I can fool you negotiation games. He even wrote of a tactic in the art of the deal based on not washing your hands just after going to the bathroom before a meeting. The idea being that you would know that you'd just been handling your junk and that your handshake with the other folks meant that you were getting one over on them. You would thus be psyched to do a better, more powerful and dominating performance in the deal.

    He apparently adores bargaining head=games and dirty tricks.[/QUOTE]

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    Last edited by Fragony; 10-17-2017 at 08:10.

  20. #560
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    He even wrote of a tactic in the art of the deal based on not washing your hands just after going to the bathroom before a meeting. The idea being that you would know that you'd just been handling your junk and that your handshake with the other folks meant that you were getting one over on them.
    Is this actually in there? This is something 4chan's /r9k/ loners would suggest.
    Requesting suggestions for new sig.

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  21. #561
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    http://www.snopes.com/trump-no-wash-trick/

    This passage does not appear anywhere in Donald Trump’s The Art of the Deal. We searched the text of that book for the phrase “‘no-wash’ trick,” as well as more colorful offerings such as “handling your junk” and “touched my schlong,” and came up empty-handed each time.
    Leftist propaganda fake news.

    Never forget though that many people you will meet in life will not have washed their hands when they touch you either way.

    https://www.livescience.com/37326-ba...ng-habits.html

    After using the bathroom, 95 percent of people fail to wash their hands long enough to kill harmful bacteria, a new study finds.

    Researchers also found that only two in three people use soap, while one in 10 skips the sink altogether, and men get much lower marks for hand hygiene than women.
    Of course researchers also found that kids playing in the dirt on farms develop fewer allergies, but I guess one could still be expected to at least wash the worst stuff off one's hands after going to the loo. Having sterile hands all day might be a bit much. When was the last time you sterilized your keyboard?
    Last edited by Husar; 10-17-2017 at 17:41.


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  22. #562
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossLOPER View Post
    Is this actually in there? This is something 4chan's /r9k/ loners would suggest.
    Made a mistake quoting SF's post, that doesn't come from me, forgot to fix it my bad. Wouldn't surprise me if the Donald's mind works like that, the guy needs to be psyched-up it seems. Could work, pheronomes and all that, or just knowing you are giving a dirty hand

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  23. #563
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Made a mistake quoting SF's post, that doesn't come from me, forgot to fix it my bad. Wouldn't surprise me if the Donald's mind works like that, the guy needs to be psyched-up it seems. Could work, pheronomes and all that, or just knowing you are giving a dirty hand
    I also wouldn't have put it entirely past him, but if you check my post above you may find that it is likely a fake but also not a reason to rejoice.


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  24. #564

    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    http://www.snopes.com/trump-no-wash-trick/



    Leftist propaganda fake news.

    Never forget though that many people you will meet in life will not have washed their hands when they touch you either way.

    https://www.livescience.com/37326-ba...ng-habits.html



    Of course researchers also found that kids playing in the dirt on farms develop fewer allergies, but I guess one could still be expected to at least wash the worst stuff off one's hands after going to the loo. Having sterile hands all day might be a bit much. When was the last time you sterilized your keyboard?
    I believe I wash my hands more thoroughly than most (at public restrooms), and I would be reprimanded at a hospital for inadequate washing - or maybe not. How well and frequently do you wash your hands at home? I already have some anxiety about offending people by shaking with sweaty hands, but a lack of sterility is no problem at all. It's hand-to-hand, not hand-to-face (of which latter is a separate issue, but it's definitely weirded me out for a long time, how can you hold a handrail then wipe at your face?!?).
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  25. #565
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    I believe I wash my hands more thoroughly than most (at public restrooms), and I would be reprimanded at a hospital for inadequate washing - or maybe not. How well and frequently do you wash your hands at home? I already have some anxiety about offending people by shaking with sweaty hands, but a lack of sterility is no problem at all. It's hand-to-hand, not hand-to-face (of which latter is a separate issue, but it's definitely weirded me out for a long time, how can you hold a handrail then wipe at your face?!?).
    If you don't think too much you won't get anxious and won't have sweaty hands.

  26. #566

    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    ... its regions would become states and former UK territories would control 2/3 of your parliament.
    Sad to say, but such an outcome would likely thrill some people. The Daughters of the Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperi..._of_the_Empire) would almost certainly hold a tea :)
    Last edited by HopAlongBunny; 10-18-2017 at 12:22.
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  27. #567
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The Leave vote in the Brexit referendum was based on promises which the government and even the campaigners agree cannot be kept, other than the action of leaving the EU. Reducing immigration is not practically possible, the 350m/wk promise was repudiated by Farage the day after the referendum,
    Erm, not all of us care about immigration.
    In fact the ashcroft exit polls confirmed that it was not the most significant motivation by a long shot.
    Nor too do all of us give a damn about the £350m/year promise for the NHS.

    Some of us (me included), simply believed it was a poor form of governance. One that demonstrated its rank inadequacy in the renegotiation when belgium et-al demanded the exemption from ever-closer-union must apply only to britain.

    And that if we really want to get down into the weeds of the economic argument, where remainers complain about lost growth, then i'll whine about the 10% of GDP lost in the last generation as a result of GDP growth being suppressed by 0.4% year on year, as the post social-chapter labour government pursued a european economic/regulatory model and spent 5% more GDP than it needed to on government services. Compound growth (or the lack thereof) is a bitch!
    Last edited by Furunculus; 10-18-2017 at 23:23.
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  28. #568
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    Erm, not all of us care about immigration.
    In fact the ashcroft exit polls confirmed that not the most significant motivation by a long shot.

    Not all of us give a damn about the £350m/year promise for the NHS.

    Some of us (me included), simply believed it was a poor form of governance.

    And that if we really want to get down into the weeds of the economic argument, where remainers whine about lost growth, then i'll whine about the 10% of GDP lost in the last generation as a result of GDP growth being suppressed by 0.4% year on year, as the post social-chapter labour government pursued a european economic/regulatory model and spent 5% more GDP than it needed to on government services.
    Where do you get this figure from? How is the necessary level of government services defined?

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Where do you get this figure from? How is the necessary level of government services defined?
    https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/upload...Growth-PDF.pdf

    They talk about 1.0% over 'the long term' for a 10% fall, rather than 0.4% over 'a generation' for a 5% fall, but p0tato/patato.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 10-18-2017 at 23:37.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  30. #570
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/upload...Growth-PDF.pdf

    They talk about 1.0% over 'the long term' for a 10% fall, rather than 0.4% over 'a generation' for a 5% fall, but p0tato/patato.
    Erm, how economically and politically credible is the IEA? I've spoken before about my contempt for the neoliberal economic theorists who advocated hardcore adoption of their theories in Yeltsin's Russia while they lived a continent and an ocean away. From what I can see, the IEA is one of these very same neolib think tanks. Does it talk about the social impact of their economic analyses? Because that was what did for Yeltsin's Russia.

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