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Thread: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

  1. #391
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Kidding me, the UK gets out just in time

  2. #392
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    What is the primary consideration - belief that unification of Europe is "good"?

    Is it to prevent the continent fighting any more wars? Quite a good idea, that. Good luck to you all - it's working a treat! Seems Russia didn't read the memo - and I thought we had NATO for this one.

    Free trade? That precedes the EU of course.
    Unified laws and caps on debt ratios? Great idea. Any idea when France etc are going to y'know, follow them?

    Apart from use in rhetorical arguments, what positive changes will there be when the UK leaves the EU? Ministers have promised we'll keep the regulations at a minimum. Immigration will not drop.

  3. #393
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Apart from use in rhetorical arguments, what positive changes will there be when the UK leaves the EU? Ministers have promised we'll keep the regulations at a minimum. Immigration will not drop.
    Yeah and someone once told he she loved me, maybe sbe even did for a whi,e

  4. #394
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Yeah and someone once told he she loved me, maybe sbe even did for a whi,e
    Did someone tell you it'll be great to live in the extra-EU UK? When are you planning to move over here? Are you going to put your money where your mouth is, and live in a country that you promised would be great outside the EU?

  5. #395
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Apart from use in rhetorical arguments, what positive changes will there be when the UK leaves the EU? Ministers have promised we'll keep the regulations at a minimum. Immigration will not drop.
    If one could predict the future, one could become very rich very quickly.

    What positive changes were there when we joined the EU? Apart from all that money going elsewhere which will definitely help us in the long term.

    Regulations tend to increase in or out of the EU. Immigration probably will not drop. If we're lucky there might be more store on the quality that is let in - but I'm not holding my breath. What change ever happens with guaranteed improvements?

    I hold no illusions that the UK will somehow be important again and regain the standing of the 1880's. With luck we can become more like Iceland that does its own thing rather than wastes vast sums of resource in throwing its weight around the world. The UK might have some remaining "soft power" but that's it. We should act accordingly.

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  6. #396
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Did someone tell you it'll be great to live in the extra-EU UK? When are you planning to move over here? Are you going to put your money where your mouth is, and live in a country that you promised would be great outside the EU?
    I do not know what's going to happen, should I really care? I don't, I am just looking at thngs unfolding, you aren't very important to me

  7. #397
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    I do not know what's going to happen, should I really care? I don't, I am just looking at thngs unfolding, you aren't very important to me
    You seem very keen to cheerlead the British into leaving the EU and saying that it's all going to be great, all the while whilst living within the EU and not looking to live outside it. Just like the neolibs who in the 1990s urged the Russians to subscribe to their theories and saying that all the pain will be worth it, whilst living elsewhere and not having to face the consequences of the actions they urged. I despised the neolibs.

  8. #398
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Don't be surprised. People generally lack empathy.

  9. #399
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    You want to wreck the UK economy because of that? That's just one step up from voting out because of bendy bananas.
    Do you understand WHY we STILL have two EU Parliaments?

    Why is the EU Parliament the only one in the world that can't decide where it sits?
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  10. #400
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Do you understand WHY we STILL have two EU Parliaments?

    Why is the EU Parliament the only one in the world that can't decide where it sits?
    If the issue is that there are two EU Parliaments, shouldn't the solution be to put them both in the same location? Why is this single inefficiency sufficient reason to leave the EU altogether? It's a bit like Scots thinking that the House of Lords is redundant, and thus leaving the UK because of this inefficiency. There's an argument to be made about improving efficiency, but to leave because of this?

  11. #401
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    If the issue is that there are two EU Parliaments, shouldn't the solution be to put them both in the same location? Why is this single inefficiency sufficient reason to leave the EU altogether? It's a bit like Scots thinking that the House of Lords is redundant, and thus leaving the UK because of this inefficiency. There's an argument to be made about improving efficiency, but to leave because of this?
    Erm...

    There are is a single EU Parliament with TWO buildings. The Parliament has to alternate between Brussels and Strasbourg.

    Why?

    Well, because it's in the treaty and the French have refused to countenance a change because they want a piece of the EU-pie (The Strasbourg Parliament is the only EU institution in France). As a result everything is duplicated, at greatly offensive expense.

    This single example encapsulates, for me, everything wrong with the EU.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  12. #402
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Erm...

    There are is a single EU Parliament with TWO buildings. The Parliament has to alternate between Brussels and Strasbourg.

    Why?

    Well, because it's in the treaty and the French have refused to countenance a change because they want a piece of the EU-pie (The Strasbourg Parliament is the only EU institution in France). As a result everything is duplicated, at greatly offensive expense.

    This single example encapsulates, for me, everything wrong with the EU.
    Erm, the Royal family? That particular expense is offensive to many. Yet it's kept because it's what it's always been, and it keeps the peace between different political factions. And it's counted by its backers as one of the strengths of the UK.

    There's a far greater inefficiency about the EU, but you don't seem to recognise it, and you even counted it as a strength when talking about it in a different context. You said that the UK has a veto in the UN, and that was why you thought UN membership was not an issue. Well, the UK had a veto in the EU too. So does every other member. That's probably at the heart of every supposed inefficiency within the EU. Yet you count that as a strength when the UK has it but not others.

  13. #403
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    You seem very keen to cheerlead the British into leaving the EU and saying that it's all going to be great, all the while whilst living within the EU and not looking to live outside it. Just like the neolibs who in the 1990s urged the Russians to subscribe to their theories and saying that all the pain will be worth it, whilst living elsewhere and not having to face the consequences of the actions they urged. I despised the neolibs.
    It's very simple, I want it to just cease existing. Eurocrats scare me and I don't like being scared

  14. #404
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    It's very simple, I want it to just cease existing. Eurocrats scare me and I don't like being scared
    You are a very happy man, if your greatest fear is Eurocrats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

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  15. #405
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    It's very simple, I want it to just cease existing. Eurocrats scare me and I don't like being scared
    And it wants you to cease existing because you scare it. Whose wish will be granted? Will Fragony still be around? Does the EU get a heart attack from the scaryness of it all? Tune in tomorrow for another episode of 'Love in Brussels, the London Chronicles'!


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  16. #406
    Forum Lurker Member Sir Moody's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    I hold no illusions that the UK will somehow be important again and regain the standing of the 1880's. With luck we can become more like Iceland that does its own thing rather than wastes vast sums of resource in throwing its weight around the world. The UK might have some remaining "soft power" but that's it. We should act accordingly.
    Iceland has attempted to join the EU once before and is actually debating it again right now (with 2 of the 3 parties who make up the Government coalition being pro-EU).

  17. #407
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    And it wants you to cease existing because you scare it. Whose wish will be granted? Will Fragony still be around? Does the EU get a heart attack from the scaryness of it all? Tune in tomorrow for another episode of 'Love in Brussels, the London Chronicles'!
    You give me the perfect reason to be scared of it, the whole reason to be sared of it. I am simply nothongin their world, 1984 is so outdated, it is 2017. There is no place for me in the EU
    Last edited by Fragony; 08-07-2017 at 14:25.

  18. #408
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Erm, the Royal family? That particular expense is offensive to many. Yet it's kept because it's what it's always been, and it keeps the peace between different political factions. And it's counted by its backers as one of the strengths of the UK.
    The idea the Royal Family is expensive only works if you view their private property as actually being "public" property. It isn't, not in any way our Common Law understands. You also need to consider that any replacement President would likely be at least as much of a drain on the Public purse. There would still need to be a Palace, a holiday home, servants...

    There's a far greater inefficiency about the EU, but you don't seem to recognise it, and you even counted it as a strength when talking about it in a different context. You said that the UK has a veto in the UN, and that was why you thought UN membership was not an issue. Well, the UK had a veto in the EU too. So does every other member. That's probably at the heart of every supposed inefficiency within the EU. Yet you count that as a strength when the UK has it but not others.
    Yes, I know, I mentioned the French veto in my last post. The national vetoes have been watered down and as a result are now jealously guarded - removing them would also require a new treaty and, frankly, after the Lisbon that's inconceivable without Referenda in most countries.

    I think the EU is "stuck" - it can't walk back integration and it can't progress to a full Federal State. The Euro-crisis and its aftermath has exposed the lie that the EU promotes prosperity for all, Spain and Greece are STILL suffering and Italy continues to teeter.

    All of this could be fixed with German money or a German suspension of the Euro but that's not something the german Government will do.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  19. #409
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Souuthern Seurope is nothing but a proxy because banks can't be saved directly. Especially Greece suffers from this. They aren't gettng anything but beths, all money ihey 'get' is useless.
    Last edited by Fragony; 08-07-2017 at 15:03.

  20. #410
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    You are a very happy man, if your greatest fear is Eurocrats.
    Wll it isn't really

  21. #411
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Wll it isn't really
    Do you want to talk about it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  22. #412
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Do you want to talk about it?

    onlyy if you lovingly kiss me first, the type that barely touches your face

  23. #413
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    onlyy if you lovingly kiss me first, the type that barely touches your face
    Shrinks' ethics forbids it. Unless the shrink is Richard Gere in Final Analysis. Since I'm not, no kisses from me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  24. #414
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
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  25. #415
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    You give me the perfect reason to be scared of it, the whole reason to be sared of it. I am simply nothongin their world, 1984 is so outdated, it is 2017. There is no place for me in the EU
    I'm sure your queen cares deeply about your well-being in contrast.


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  26. #416

    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I'm sure your queen cares deeply about your well-being in contrast.
    Doesn't work, Fragony thinks his royal family is a joke.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


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  27. #417
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Doesn't work, Fragony thinks his royal family is a joke.
    I know that, I was just too lazy to look up the PM, was it Rutte?


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  28. #418
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Doesn't work, Fragony thinks his royal family is a joke.
    And a poor one

  29. #419
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    And even poorer one, our beloved queen father died. Of course he didn't know about the thousands of people who were drugged and thrown in the sea to gently sink to death. Bad timing Hussie. That family goes way back to that royal family of mine they helped the nazi's flee to Argentina. Zorriguetta and prince Bernard who was also as wrong as can be knew eachother very well way before WW2
    Last edited by Fragony; 08-09-2017 at 08:34.

  30. #420
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    No comments from Brexit supporters on the Bombardier affair?

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