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Thread: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

  1. #61
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rexit-tensions

    Police in the territory known as the Rock, which is home to 32,000 people, tweeted: “All those driving toward Spain should expect long delays.” Gibraltar’s government earlier posted on Twitter that vehicles faced two-hour lines to cross into Spain.


    Neither Spain’s interior ministry nor the national police responded to AFP’s requests to confirm that border measures had been tightened.
    This is legal terrorism - make life unpleasant for the people of Gibraltar because they refuse to accept Spanish rule. It's despicable.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  2. #62
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rexit-tensions

    This is legal terrorism - make life unpleasant for the people of Gibraltar because they refuse to accept Spanish rule. It's despicable.
    I disagree with the use of "terrorism" for something that isn't terror-inducing or life-threatening. I agree that they are being needlessly unpleasant. It is clearly punitive and, I believe, petulant as well.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

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  3. #63
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rexit-tensions



    This is legal terrorism - make life unpleasant for the people of Gibraltar because they refuse to accept Spanish rule. It's despicable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    I disagree with the use of "terrorism" for something that isn't terror-inducing or life-threatening. I agree that they are being needlessly unpleasant. It is clearly punitive and, I believe, petulant as well.
    Hello, political violence. :)
    Vitiate Man.

  4. #64
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Self-Determination is THE argument for sovereignty in the UK, there isn't really any other. The tenacity with which the UK holds to that argument has its roots in the Falklands War, a war we did not want to fight and which was very costly relative to the number of citizens and the territory at risk. This is why the UK can sometimes sound very bellicose, it's not a desire for war in the slightest, it's a fear that our resolve will be underestimated and we'll have to fight another war we can ill afford to protect our Overseas Territories. The view is then further informed by the bitter taste we have from freely handing Hong Kong back to China largely against the desires of the Hong Kong Chinese. A lot of Brits, myself included, feel at least partly responsible for what has happened since despite recognising that we couldn't keep Hong Kong without the New Territories and would not have been able to negotiate a new lease with the PRC.

    So, you'd beter bloody believe we'll defend Gibraltar, Bermuda etc. to the hilt
    To be honest. I am not sure i buy this. Based on multiple threads. Your posts seem to advocate war any time there is even slight possibility to it.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  5. #65
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Probably not, but people tend to prefer status quo if there are no obvious and/or immediate benefits.
    ... or immediate threats (whether real or imagined).

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    or, we could have calais back.
    Put in Anjou and Aquitaine as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagemusha View Post
    People should accept the past and look forward. Hell Finland lost Karelia and Petsamo to Soviet Union during WW2, with them the second largest city at the time in Finland, Viborg, with half a million refugees from those areas relocating to areas that remained.
    It was a piece of luck for Suomi. Look at the state Russia is in and compare it to your country's. Some people here would call it a small price to pay for your current life.

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  6. #66
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Spain and Italy playing important is my favorite part of western politics. Like a couple of hairy dwarves running around ones feet.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers.

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  7. #67
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Spain and Italy playing important is my favorite part of western politics. Like a couple of hairy dwarves running around ones feet.
    Joke as much as you want but Italy still could probably take on Ethiopia and win.

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  8. #68
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Italy even has its own arms industry to some extent. And I'm not talking about some sidearms but tanks, light tanks and helicopters.

    Granted, they're not well-known for this internationally, but compared to the wooden mockups high-tech military inventions Iran always presents to the world....

    I think the guns from OTO Melara can be found on quite a few naval vessels. Like this one, being used on the famous Oliver Hazard Perry class of the USN, among many other ships worldwide.

    And don't forget fashion and food!
    Last edited by Husar; 04-06-2017 at 15:34.


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  9. #69
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Spain and Italy playing important is my favorite part of western politics. Like a couple of hairy dwarves running around ones feet.
    You have a way with imagery you do.

    Maybe not 'poetic' but certainly you do paint a picture.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

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  10. #70
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagemusha View Post
    To be honest. I am not sure i buy this. Based on multiple threads. Your posts seem to advocate war any time there is even slight possibility to it.
    Do they?

    War against Assad in Syria, yes. I stand by that given the recent chemical attack.

    War against Spain or another country not currently killing its own people? No.

    Military action is a tool of Diplomacy to be used in the absence of other effective tools. That does not make its use in any way desirable because it incurs the greatest material and moral cost to the society that wages it.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  11. #71
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Italy even has its own arms industry to some extent. And I'm not talking about some sidearms but tanks, light tanks and helicopters.

    Granted, they're not well-known for this internationally, but compared to the wooden mockups high-tech military inventions Iran always presents to the world....

    I think the guns from OTO Melara can be found on quite a few naval vessels. Like this one, being used on the famous Oliver Hazard Perry class of the USN, among many other ships worldwide.

    And don't forget fashion and food!
    Italy has always produced some good hardware. It's the frightening incompetence of the general staff that sinks them. its interesting that Italy never really had a formative war before the Great War to formulate its military bureaucracy. Germany adopted the Prussian model and solidified it after 1871. America solidified its after the civil war. Italy didn't do anything and reaps what it sowed a century ago to this day (as do the other countries). That's my working theory.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

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  12. #72
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post
    Do they?

    War against Assad in Syria, yes. I stand by that given the recent chemical attack.

    War against Spain or another country not currently killing its own people? No.

    Military action is a tool of Diplomacy to be used in the absence of other effective tools. That does not make its use in any way desirable because it incurs the greatest material and moral cost to the society that wages it.
    I am talking about earlier discussions like the inevitability of major war with Putin´s Russia. And your wish for "real" war with Islamist´s. If i miss read you as very hawkish, then my apologies for misunderstanding your stance on several issues.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  13. #73
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Italy has always produced some good hardware. It's the frightening incompetence of the general staff that sinks them. its interesting that Italy never really had a formative war before the Great War to formulate its military bureaucracy. Germany adopted the Prussian model and solidified it after 1871. America solidified its after the civil war. Italy didn't do anything and reaps what it sowed a century ago to this day (as do the other countries). That's my working theory.
    Yeah.Not that they have been part in compatible NATO command structure for decades, thus their C&C very similar to all the other NATO commands (Which is kind of the point of NATO). Third major contributor after USA and UK in peacekeeping operations since 1980. In current missions they have been in charge of ISAF regional command West at Herat province Afghanistan since the start of the campaign.

    I guess WW2 just doesnt let go of them...
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  14. #74
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagemusha View Post
    I am talking about earlier discussions like the inevitability of major war with Putin´s Russia. And your wish for "real" war with Islamist´s. If i miss read you as very hawkish, then my apologies for misunderstanding your stance on several issues.
    OK, well I can address both of those.

    As regards Putin - I consider that war becomes more likely the longer Putin is in power and the more leeway we give him. However, as I recall I said that several years ago and since then the US and the EU has remained surprisingly stalwart in enforcing sanctions that hurt Russia's economy and military capacity so war may not be "inevitable".

    As regards the Islamists, I was at pains to make the point that a "real" war was preferable to the current situation where we are, as a society, on a war footing but with no enemy we can really fight. It should go without saying that not being on a war-footing is infinitely preferable than status quo or fighting an actual war.

    Despite me trying to explain this a number of times several posters insisted on wilfully misinterpreting my statements as a "quasi-Fascist" call to war for the sake of the nation's soul.

    I can only repeat myself so many times before I give up.
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  15. #75
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    As regards the Islamists, I was at pains to make the point that a "real" war was preferable to the current situation where we are, as a society, on a war footing but with no enemy we can really fight. It should go without saying that not being on a war-footing is infinitely preferable than status quo or fighting an actual war.
    But note the distinction between 'prefer the other thing over this one'
    and
    'from this situation to other (i.e. toward "real war") would resolve extant ill effects'.

    That's why you have to be more precise.
    Vitiate Man.

  16. #76
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    But note the distinction between 'prefer the other thing over this one'
    and
    'from this situation to other (i.e. toward "real war") would resolve extant ill effects'.

    That's why you have to be more precise.
    Except I never said that, you just inferred it, and unreasonably I would say.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  17. #77
    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    I wish I were Gilrandir in this moment.
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  18. #78
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    I wish I were Gilrandir in this moment.
    I wish you would stop being so obtuse, though really the disease seems to be spreading throughout the Backroom.

    Why, prey tell, do you wish you were Gilrandir in that moment?
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  19. #79
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagemusha View Post
    Yeah.Not that they have been part in compatible NATO command structure for decades, thus their C&C very similar to all the other NATO commands (Which is kind of the point of NATO). Third major contributor after USA and UK in peacekeeping operations since 1980. In current missions they have been in charge of ISAF regional command West at Herat province Afghanistan since the start of the campaign.

    I guess WW2 just doesnt let go of them...
    My brain was on the world wars because of Sarmatains comment. I don't think there is something inherently broken about Italian manpower. I think there is (or was) something broken about their general staff. Which, as you point out, is null now because the NATO command structure is US based.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

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  20. #80
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post

    Why, prey tell, do you wish you were Gilrandir in that moment?
    Having an Elvish name is what everybody wishes to enjoy.

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  21. #81
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian
    Quote Originally Posted by furunculus
    or, we could have calais back.

    self determination either means something, or it does not. spain needs to figure out which way to fall on the issue.
    Husar's support of Spain over Gibraltar is based on wanting to screw Britain over, nothing more.

    It's 90% pulling British legs, one of my favourite pastimes given how easy it is. The other 10% are revenge for the Brexit vote and generally being island whiners.
    Is that what you imagine you are doing? Okay... ;)
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  22. #82
    Like the Parthian Boot Member Elmetiacos's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Italy has always produced some good hardware. It's the frightening incompetence of the general staff that sinks them. its interesting that Italy never really had a formative war before the Great War to formulate its military bureaucracy.
    ...and that's why Venice is still part of Austria.
    'you owe it to that famous chick general whose name starts with a B'
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  23. #83
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    or, we could have calais back..
    Well, we would say France never really fully recognise English Independance. So, as Richard failed to find a buyer for London, perhaps it is time for UK to come back under the French rules...

    Dieu et mon Droit, Honni soit qui mal y Pense...
    Last edited by Brenus; 04-08-2017 at 17:07.
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    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
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  24. #84
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    Well, we would say France never really fully recognise English Independance. So, as Richard failed to find a buyer for London, perhaps it is time for UK to come back under the French rules...

    Dieu et mon Droit, Honni soit qui mal y Pense...
    I've always found it worth a chuckle that Richard I "Lionheart" gets all of the "good guy" image in Robin Hood pictures -- but historically is known to have spoken French and Occitan, but not much if any English and may well have spent fewer than six months in England during the entirety of his life. One of the great "English" kings....
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  25. #85
    Member Member V:force Champion HopAlongBunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Well I hope this possibility comes to pass:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39510351

    The embrace of Scotland within the Canadian fold would bring the colonizer legacy full circle
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  26. #86
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    I've always found it worth a chuckle that Richard I "Lionheart" gets all of the "good guy" image in Robin Hood pictures -- but historically is known to have spoken French and Occitan, but not much if any English and may well have spent fewer than six months in England during the entirety of his life. One of the great "English" kings....
    He was a king. Disagree with the other two adjectives though. His father was a far better king for England (saying to his illegitimate son, who stuck with him, "You're the only one of my sons who's not a bastard". IIRC Henry V was the first king to really identify himself as English.

  27. #87
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny View Post
    Well I hope this possibility comes to pass:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39510351

    The embrace of Scotland within the Canadian fold would bring the colonizer legacy full circle
    Or the beggining of the reverse-reintegration of the empire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    He was a king. Disagree with the other two adjectives though. His father was a far better king for England (saying to his illegitimate son, who stuck with him, "You're the only one of my sons who's not a bastard". IIRC Henry V was the first king to really identify himself as English.
    Richard was undoubtedly a great king, he displayed all the bravery, chivalry, leadership and piety expected of his position. Well, the last one is a bit debatable as he seems to have sometimes sought "alternative companionship" whilst on campaign. Despite that apparent weakness, however, Richard was undoubtedly a great warrior-king. His attitude to England in this context is understandable - unlike his possessions on the Continent or Outremer England was stable and essentially safe. If England had been constantly menaced by the Scots or Norse I imagine he would have spent more time there.

    As to Henry V being the first "English" King since the Conquest that's essentially Tudor propaganda. The Plantagenet Kings were native English speakers from at least Edward III and possibly from the time of Edward II. At the court of Richard II English prose and verse was as popular as Anglo-Norman French.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  28. #88
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    I've always found it worth a chuckle that Richard I "Lionheart" gets all of the "good guy" image in Robin Hood pictures -- but historically is known to have spoken French and Occitan, but not much if any English and may well have spent fewer than six months in England during the entirety of his life. One of the great "English" kings....

    He had a good PR manager.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus View Post

    Despite that apparent weakness, however, Richard was undoubtedly a great warrior-king.
    According to Steven Runciman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Crusades), Richard was a great warrior, but a bad king.

  29. #89
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    I've always found it worth a chuckle that Richard I "Lionheart" gets all of the "good guy" image in Robin Hood pictures -- but historically is known to have spoken French and Occitan, but not much if any English and may well have spent fewer than six months in England during the entirety of his life. One of the great "English" kings....
    That is History for you. I wrote my Degree in History about it, how media (in this case books, series and movies) shapes the representation of yourself as Nation. We have a similar case in France. Thanks to Alexandre Dumas and his 3 Musketeers, the Cardinal de Richelieu, one probably of the top 5 great French politicians, is always the bad guy...
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  30. #90
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

    French kings are bad by default get over it
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    this supports and the people from

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