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Thread: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

  1. #61
    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    She completes me. I have been exceedingly fortunate.
    Such a softie :)
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

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  2. #62
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Do not doubt it. My wife have planned for a Greek islands cruise for decades to celebrate our 25th this June. When she booked the cruise this January, she purposefully chose a route that did NOT call in Turkey so as to avoid complications.
    Your own example may not be symptomatic to make universal conclusions.

    Anyway, in such countries as Turkey and Egypt they take care tumults outside the hotel don't influence the fun holiday makers have. They just recommend the clients not to venture into places they are likely to find trouble. And that is true of quieter countries as well - I mean everywhere there are spots which are better to avoid.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 04-19-2017 at 11:00.

  3. #63
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Your own example may not be symptomatic to make universal conclusions....
    My dissertation was done using Grounded Theory. I remain unafraid of the judicious use of anecdotal evidence to suggest conclusions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Anyway, in such countries as Turkey and Egypt they take care tumults outside the hotel don't influence the fun holiday makers have. They just recommend the clients not to venture into places they are likely to find trouble. And that is true of quieter countries as well - I mean everywhere there are spots which are better to avoid.
    Indeed. As Mr. Blaine opined, "Well there are certain sections of New York, Major, that I wouldn't advise you to invade."


    On the other hand, while street thuggery can occur anywhere, political stability issues are of a different ilk. For now, at least, Greece is quiescent. Turkey? We shall see.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  4. #64
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    I realize it is not about Turkey, but I thought it unneccessary to start a new thread.
    https://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...asting-ballots
    On a second thought it shows Turkey has a way to go. Perhaps one day Erdogan will see to it that no candidates for presidency are registered and his power will become eternal.

  5. #65
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I realize it is not about Turkey, but I thought it unneccessary to start a new thread.
    https://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...asting-ballots
    On a second thought it shows Turkey has a way to go. Perhaps one day Erdogan will see to it that no candidates for presidency are registered and his power will become eternal.
    No shit heh. Still a way out of this for Turkey though, everything won't go into effect if he isn't reelected, but I suspect he will be, Turkey used to be a major power and the grandeur being brought back is tempting, even for reasonable Turks you would never expect it from, it's a brought down major civilisation that feels humiliated. Reality is that they are isolating themselves, as the Turks themselve say, Turks have no friends, it's true
    Last edited by Fragony; 04-20-2017 at 16:59.
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  6. #66
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    The Erdokhan is at it again, 1000 arrests of 'Gülen' supporters. Even photographing protests makes you one I guess. The most beautiful princess on the planet called the EUropa is pissed of, they just might not want to marry the Bully anymore. I am sure it breaks his heart.
    Last edited by Fragony; 04-27-2017 at 08:30.
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  7. #67
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    The first sign of tightening screws?
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ional-security

  8. #68
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    The first? Been paying attention lately? That neo-sultan is even locking people up for photographing protests. Makes you a Gülen-supporter if you do. Just this week another 1000 'Gülen supporters' were arrested, and 40.000 people were fired. Just this week. I wouldn't want to be the Turk suggesting that the Neo-Sultan is kinda lacking in other proportion-thingies.
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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    The first? Been paying attention lately?
    Not really. Then "another sign of tightening screws".

  10. #70
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Creepy, creepier, Erdogan. Turks have to listen to a not pleasant at all message from the Erdokhan before using their cell-phones. I hope a Turk does what's necessary very soon, preferably yesterday
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    Senior Member Senior Member Othello Champion Montmorency's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Timeline of the Coup Attempt

    Without further study, my impression is that the incident was a military/Gulenist attempt at removing Erdogan, but it failed both because of the plotters' bungling and because Erdogan and his intelligence services had been forewarned and had a countercoup prepared. Erdogan did not crack down on the coup before it was launched in order to take advantage of the political fallout.
    Last edited by Montmorency; 07-17-2017 at 14:45.
    Vitiate Man.

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  12. #72
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    I am more interested in what your intuition tells you really, I always trust that first
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-17-2017 at 15:29.
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Timeline of the Coup Attempt

    Without further study, my impression is that the incident was a military/Gulenist attempt at removing Erdogan, but it failed both because of the plotters' bungling and because Erdogan and his intelligence services had been forewarned and had a countercoup prepared. Erdogan did not crack down on the coup before it was launched in order to take advantage of the political fallout.
    Few things work better than ambushing a group of ambushers....
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  14. #74
    Forum Lurker Member Sir Moody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Timeline of the Coup Attempt

    Without further study, my impression is that the incident was a military/Gulenist attempt at removing Erdogan, but it failed both because of the plotters' bungling and because Erdogan and his intelligence services had been forewarned and had a countercoup prepared. Erdogan did not crack down on the coup before it was launched in order to take advantage of the political fallout.
    I have a sneaking suspicion it goes further than that.

    The Coup plot was horrifically put together - almost like it was rushed.

    I have a suspicion the "purges" we have seen post coup were planned and due to start regardless of the coup - the Coup plotters found out their heads were on the block and rushed a response assuming they could count on more backing than they actually had, which played right into Erdogan's hands leading to where we are now.

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  15. #75
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Moody View Post
    I have a sneaking suspicion it goes further than that.

    The Coup plot was horrifically put together - almost like it was rushed.

    I have a suspicion the "purges" we have seen post coup were planned and due to start regardless of the coup - the Coup plotters found out their heads were on the block and rushed a response assuming they could count on more backing than they actually had, which played right into Erdogan's hands leading to where we are now.
    Possibly so. At a minimum, I think there were lists for removal "when opportunity arises" that were acted upon. It struck me as pretty organized and rapid.
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

  16. #76
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Of course the lists were already made, I am surprised (well not at all really) that it doesn't get a closer look. The Erdokhan is erasing all opposition, and it isn't reserved just for Turks in Turkey his thugs are everywhere, bad times for secular Turks

    edit, make that very sorry. Evolutian-theory won't be teached at schools anymore, makes place for jihad-lessons. Jihad can mean many things of course, I know
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-19-2017 at 07:02.
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  17. #77
    Boy's Guard Moderator LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Where is LEN when you need him anyway?


    ***

    Ok, now, before anything else, my greatest s to whomever promoted "moderate Islamism", thought and spoke badly of Kemalism like something to get rid of ASAP no matter how, to be honest, it was corroded and badly interpreted after Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's passing.

    Bask in your creation: Frankenshallah

    You are the accomplice in the only Muslim-majority country who had somewhat embraced Western values and appreciated the scientific, artistic and humanistic developments they brought, being turned into your typical Middle Eastern plotting and warring cauldron of inhumane, schizophrenically obsessed with fairytales or long-gone history.

    Thank you. Because of you, at the age of 33, I gave up all I culminated all these years in this country and left for Belgium as a "student" whose CV is too bleak to get a decent job.

    Thank you.


    ***

    After this very necessary " you!" particular-finger out to whom deserved it, let's get back on topic.

    An Islamist is an Islamist. He is praying to a false chain of "prophets" of whom existence is very dubious, of whom backgrounds were "incorporated" from other historical figures unbeknownst to the ignorant and zealous, of whom stories are straightforward a matter of clinical psychosis, let alone an iota of belief. If you ever see me believing in something that has stemmed from somebody claiming an otherwordly creature having brought him a ram to slit its throat instead of his own son, shoot me right in the head before I ever get the chance to reproduce again for the sake of a civilized world.

    So, yeah, Erdogan (I'll go with RTE to waste less energy to address his cursed name) the pure psycho who has gone to the lengths of his experiences resembling those of prophet Muhammed's during the botched coup of last year's 15th July is an Islamist and there you go with all your answers, actually.

    However, Western values are known for their tolerance and the concept of "the benefit of the doubt" and we, puny Turks who'd like to have some alcohol whenever they'd like or wear whatever they'd like or make babies as less as they'd like, were the subject of those "doubts".

    Short answer: No. Your "moderate Islamism" project has failed and it will again may it be 100 years later because Islam cannot be moderate like with any other Abrahamic religion as long as you do not oppress them like how they deserve to be treated.

    RTE used whatever means to get to the top of the society and the country, a definite pragmatist in that, and he is now sitting on top of Republic of Turkey as somebody who crushed everybody he deemed an obstacle in his way no matter if (s)he was an ally back then or not, changed the direction of the country to a Middle Eastern/Arabic swamp by shifting the fundamentals of the country such as redesigning education and the regime and now is making enemies with allies and allies with enemies every other day, so that his "outspoken, proud world leader" image in his leashed-to-the-front-gate media can be pumped out from TV's and papers 24/7.

    I arrived back in my homeland in theoretically the last day of Republic of Turkey, on 16th April - the referendum day-, to have a short vacation to clear our minds, reinvigorate to fight for our futures in Belgium, see our families etc.

    My predictions were quite accurate there: That referendum was a matter of life and death for his image and all he sought for all these years and although a "yes" vote for the referendum would fail under normal circumstances, he'd do everything in his power to see his psychotic dreams cruising through this election and it did - on a very shady declaration by the Supreme Electoral Council that accepted the unsealed voting ballots on appeal of an AKP official concluding the elections 51% in favor of "yes".

    So yeah, the one before the last nail in the coffin of the modernist Republic of Turkey was hammered in and in 2 years an executive presidential election would be held - guess what he could do to win that one holding our experiences from last 15 years as a reference.

    State of Emergency that was decreed last year has been extended for another 3 months, making it valid for 15 months by the end of next October - what he should have meant as "gift of god" speaking on the coup attempt. He and his party reigns over the country now by statutory decrees which are your "emergency decrees" basically from Nazi times, bypassing all legislative and judiciary mechanisms.

    People are being thrown into sacks of "FETÖ" (Fethullahist Terrorist Organization), getting sacked from their public jobs, being detained for months and aside from the commonfolk who believed in the "benevolent intentions and initivatives" of the sect of Fethullah Gulen, a nemesis-turned ex-ally, religious cleric with checkered past, the political wingspan of that FETÖ has never been explored because all AKP officials including RTE himself were praising highly Gulen and his organization back then. They were extremely useful in filling the bureaucratic positions AKP's organization was not qualified to, plus they were top instrumental in effectively disbanding secularist guardian named Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) by alleging thousands of lieutenants, privates, colonels and generals via Ergenekon and Balyoz (sledgehammer) trials that accused them of plotting to overthrow AKP government. You might want to go through the Harvard economist academician Dani Rodrik's blog on those trials since he was married to Pınar Doğan, who was the daughter of retired-by-then general Çetin Doğan that was one of the army officials that went through those trials.

    Those trials are long gone now. Yet so are the qualified, experienced military officers of TSK, been forcibly retired, if not committed suicide in prison like lieutenant colonel Ali Tatar in prison. 400 high-ranking TSK officials were detained during those trials and the death toll of those trials even extended to civil public figures like businessman Kuddusi Okkır (cancer), intelligence officer Kaşif Kozinoğlu (suicide), Forestry economics professor Uçkun Geray and a die-hard modernist who allowed thousands of girls from poor families be educated and raised via her foundation Foundation for Supporting Modern Life (ÇYDD), Türkan Saylan (cancer). Here is another source that mentions death of Kuddusi Okkır along with staff colonel Murat Özenalp's death in prison.

    FETÖ was allowed to leak into police forces and their presence in the army was barred from investigation by RTE and AKP's power back then and when that abomination spiralled out of control and wanted to rule all by itself, first called Hakan Fidan, former aide of RTE, head of National Intelligence Organization (MİT), to the court, implicitly challenging RTE, which was followed by RTE's urgent defense of his black box by a law passed that needed his permission first to call him to the court. The very creation of RTE and AKP would not stop there and openly rebelled against RTE and AKP through 17 - 25 December corruption scandals that went far enough to detain RTE's son, Bilal Erdogan and many others that broke out into a flurry of events that ended in many policemen and prosecutors being expelled.

    Since TSK was not in check since 2005, its self-diagnosis instruments being barred by AKP government, generally claimed as "preventing religious soldiers from being abused and harrassed", the last shot of FETÖ was a military coup, under a disguise of Kemalist rhetoric, which was too premature, too amateurish to be realized and you know the rest of the story.

    ***

    Meanwhile, the budget of Directorate of Religious Affairs now equals to the aggregate budget of the first 16 universities in Turkey, the budget allocated to Imam Hatip High Schools fold that of Science High Schools by 10 times, a decree passed today allows Quran courses and religious foundations to hire land from Treasury for 49 years for free also allowing them to use 20% of that land for commercial purposes.

    Women in Turkey get abused, insulted and beaten for their choice of wear. (please use google translate for Turkish sources since I couldn't find English ones on them). Not to mention we top lists in violence against women in recent years, a "turkish women abuse" Google search will give you lots of credible pieces written on the topic.

    Oh Islamism is not only an enemy of women but also children. 45 male children were raped by Ensar foundation, an AKP and RTE favorite Islamist foundation, while another 18 were sexually abused in an Imam Hatip School in southwestern city of Adiyaman.

    ***

    Ugh, I can go on for days and days on this.

    This is not a battle against some your one-in-a-century politician, this is a battle against Islamism that is drowning yet another country, my country that was founded by a man that gave women right to vote, even before than France, Italy and Switzerland.

    It's 2017 and TV's invite religious figure that advocate camel urine as a "source of healing", "religious" folk hit back at dominantly secularist parts of Turkey as soon as an earthquake hits there highlighting the cause as "adultery" and praising Allah for his strike, a Parliamentarian, former driver of RTE, finds learning mathematics useless with a child who did not learn about jihad - yes, this year's education curriculum includes a seperate class for jihad, no more evolution bull.

    ***


    Speaking of which, if you did not hear my story, passports of my wife and mine were "invalidated" by Turkish authorities upon our arrival here on 16th of April, stranding us in our home country, for 3 months without ever explaining what is going on. By sheer luck, we were able to get the name of the prosecutor who was looking into the case that my former employee institution was involved and that's how we could clear our passports.

    Meanwhile I had to evacuate my house in Belgium, having to skip my classes and exams at my university, let alone the financial and psychological damages I've sustained as an unemployed father of his family.

    I had missed my country so much back in Belgium but, 3 months of time was more than enough. I have to find a job, may it be scrubbing the toilets there or slicing doner kababs, and get the heck out of here before Sharia laws are passed and short-lived Turkish Republic becomes a distant memory.

    ***

    Thank you all whoever had a part in screwing up my country by applauding, promoting, funding that "moderate Islamic" psycho RTE and his kin.

    And thank you Muhammed for being able to screw things up from your 1400-years-earthed grave. You are indeed the mastermind of these all. I so wish there was an afterlife I could spit at your goddamn face.

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  18. #78
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Where is Frag when you need him, you couldn't have picked a worse place than Belgium that where the not-so-kind Turks are, very organised. Do I have to howl to make a point
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-24-2017 at 19:05.
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    Boy's Guard Moderator LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Where is Frag when you need him, you couldn't have picked a worse place than Belgium that where the not-so-kind Turks are, very organised. Do I have to howl to make a point
    Frag, do not take it personal, but for the sake of my choices, you as a friend do not know much about how I could come to Netherlands and obtain a work permit there -we had our exchange of Messenger pms about that didn't we?- whereas I had friends living in Belgium who were knowledgable about what to do and actually succeeded in all of that excluding my inability find a proper job. So there it is, that's why I went with Belgium and I think Netherlands would be a far better choice.

    Anyway, on that not-so-kind Turks part, yeah you're absolutely right, you would not believe how they see European way of living and how they despise it yet still exploiting it to the fullest.

    "Fellow countrymen" is a concept that embraces very miniscule of my nation from my point of view.


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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Has Kukri's account been hacked? His last 2 pages of posts have barely gone beyond 1 word per post.

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Run N Gun Champion, Hook Line & Sinker Champion, Anime BlackJack Champion, Street Racer Champion, Pipe Mania Champion, Spider Jump Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Soap Bubble Champion, Word Up Champion, Burger Time Champion, Shape Game Champion, Quick Shot Champion, Shuriken Challenge Champion, James Bomb Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Crazy Cars Champion, Space Runner Champion, Submarine Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Chicken Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Squirrel Soccer Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Stuart's Xtreme Skateboarding Champion, Jet Pac Stan Champion, Warthog Launch Champion, Candy Tetris Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Frogger Champion, Slack Man Champion, Fishing the Sea Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Ollie Skates Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Brighton Bounty Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Rotation Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Ninja Turtles 2 Champion, Ice Racer Champion, Its Mine Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, Stick Avalanche Champion, White Van Man Champion, What-A-Shot Champion, Mars Patrol Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Magic Ball Champion, BlackJack Champion, Sonny Sunshine Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Has Kukri's account been hacked? His last 2 pages of posts have barely gone beyond 1 word per post.
    Cross him and his kukri will speak eloquently enough....
    "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -- A. de Tocqueville

    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." -- J.K. Galbraith

    "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.” -- J. H. Marx

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  23. #83
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine View Post
    Frag, do not take it personal, but for the sake of my choices, you as a friend do not know much about how I could come to Netherlands and obtain a work permit there -we had our exchange of Messenger pms about that didn't we?- whereas I had friends living in Belgium who were knowledgable about what to do and actually succeeded in all of that excluding my inability find a proper job. So there it is, that's why I went with Belgium and I think Netherlands would be a far better choice.

    Anyway, on that not-so-kind Turks part, yeah you're absolutely right, you would not believe how they see European way of living and how they despise it yet still exploiting it to the fullest.

    "Fellow countrymen" is a concept that embraces very miniscule of my nation from my point of view.

    The grey wolves are here as well, just a lot less and generally not liked very much, but it's still intimidating for Turks here. If you felt I took you for an idiot, not my intention
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-25-2017 at 07:28.
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    this supports and the people from

  24. #84
    Boy's Guard Moderator LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    The grey wolves are here as well, just a lot less and generally not liked very much, but it's still intimidating for Turks here. If you felt I took you for an idiot, not my intention
    Grey wolves are not your problem, if they ever were, not anymore. They are supporters of one of the opposing parties, the nationalism-oriented one, MHP, and the voting pool of MHP is heavily divided since their leader, Devlet Bahçeli, chose to side with RTE conforming to his every request and acting as if it's a coalition government.

    Since AKP is a mid-right wing party, as we call it, taking into Turkey's archaic voting dynamics, the only real opposition against AKP is another mid-right wing party in voters' eyes and that could only be MHP as things stand.

    However, so as not to give up his chair or retire, Devlet Bahçeli went with sacking every outspoken critics of RTE within his party, effectively bonding them together against himself. Those prominent actors are, with respect to their perceived weight on the voters, Meral Akşener, Koray Aydın, Ümit Özdağ and Sinan Oğan.

    Actually Meral Akşener is an "actress" to be precise and, with years of significant political expertise in her bag and as a woman leader figure long sought for in Turkey's political habitat, could easily steer away at least 15% of votes today should she found her own party.

    Anyway, those figures have been dismissed from MHP and all their attempts to legitimately overthrow Bahçeli's ruling were prevented by RTE's or, "Palace-obedient" is the more common term these days, judiciary. They tried their hardest not to forgo MHP's establishment - their votes value that - but they were left with the only choice of bringing together a new political party into Turkey's future, expected to be announced in November.

    All in all, that divided the voting pool of MHP too, Devlet Bahçeli is the leader of the party but he can lead around 5% of total votes, 7% at his best, as MHP and Meral Akşener will definitely be leading those that did not like how Bahçeli shifted to the dark side.

    ***

    You Europeans should be worried about Imams of mosques, generally accused of spying for Turkish government, and uneducated, service sector (doner kababs, construction, utility service etc) Turks who are staunch admirers of RTE and Islam advocates with fantasies that Ottoman Empire is emerging again - yes, they are actually manipulated, quite easily so, into thinking that. This is not to say you would not come across with sensible people from that part of the society but uneducated/Islamist are keywords for RTE-exploitable vote count.

  25. #85
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    You know that we agree on the dangers of mosqees and their influence, terribly underestimamated for goodness's sake. What's so odd in my case is that I have no Turkish friends or even aquantances, Turks are really friendly but very inward in general, I always get the impression that they are scared of something, what's happening in Turkey right now must be it. We are crazy that we allow this here but lefties wiil always support these things and will always feel rightious doing it. I am not blind I can see what's wrong, but that's considered to be a disability nowadays
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-25-2017 at 12:17.
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    this supports and the people from

  26. #86
    Boy's Guard Moderator LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    You know that we agree on the dangers of mosqees and their influence, terribly underestimamated for goodness's sake. What's so odd in my case is that I have no Turkish friends or even aquantances, Turks are really friendly but very inward in general, I always get the impression that they are scared of something, what's happening in Turkey right now must be it. We are crazy that we allow this here but lefties wiil always support these things and will always feel rightious doing it. I am not blind I can see what's wrong, but that's considered to be a disability nowadays
    You know what keeps world from freaking out is people and the sides they form that contribute into the balance.

    I do not advocate blind-eye pink-fluffy-world leftism but for the right wing extremism not to turn mainstream, they are the check & balance of a social lynch mob from ever happening.

  27. #87
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine View Post
    You know what keeps world from freaking out is people and the sides they form that contribute into the balance.

    I do not advocate blind-eye pink-fluffy-world leftism but for the right wing extremism not to turn mainstream, they are the check & balance of a social lynch mob from ever happening.
    In Israel, it is the residual socialism and liberalism that keep it from going full-blown middle east. Liberals aren't necessarily bleeding hearters, just as conservatives aren't necessarily selfish me-onlys.

  28. #88
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    In Israel, it is the residual socialism and liberalism that keep it from going full-blown middle east. Liberals aren't necessarily bleeding hearters, just as conservatives aren't necessarily selfish me-onlys.
    I can't imagine a worse Israel so, pray those ideals are still lurking there.

  29. #89
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine View Post
    You know what keeps world from freaking out is people and the sides they form that contribute into the balance.

    I do not advocate blind-eye pink-fluffy-world leftism but for the right wing extremism not to turn mainstream, they are the check & balance of a social lynch mob from ever happening.
    The extreme right that could be violent is so marginal that they aren't even worthly of any consideration whatsoever, normal people scare me more, we are all looking at something that moves in slow-motion, there is something under the surface. It won't hurt anything directly and very soon, it will hurt differently, it will hurt by alienating us all
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    this supports and the people from

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    Boy's Guard Moderator LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turkish Democracy - on the brink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    The extreme right that could be violent is so marginal that they aren't even worthly of any consideration whatsoever, normal people scare me more, we are all looking at something that moves in slow-motion, there is something under the surface. It won't hurt anything directly and very soon, it will hurt differently, it will hurt by alienating us all
    Do not take right wing extremism so lightly, it is in charge of USA - Trump is a RTE in his early years. You wouldn't notice how quickly they could address masses should the right circumstances be sewn together.

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