UK General Election 2017

[Pannonian]

Too much dose of raw truth?

What is he? What is he an expert on? Why should I listen to what he's saying?

[Beskar]

What is he? What is he an expert on? Why should I listen to what he's saying?

He is a comedian who examines current affairs and puts it through a lens outraged reporter. "telling it as it is". Not only are the points publicised but overshadowed, he delivers them in a raw way which speaks to straight to people without the pomp and fluff. If you are not wanting to listen to anything he says, might as well cover your eyes and ears and just avoid 99.9% of all places which discusses politics.

[Pannonian]

He is a comedian who examines current affairs and puts it through a lens outraged reporter. "telling it as it is". Not only are the points publicised but overshadowed, he delivers them in a raw way which speaks to straight to people without the pomp and fluff. If you are not wanting to listen to anything he says, might as well cover your eyes and ears and just avoid 99.9% of all places which discusses politics.

A comedian "telling it as it is" through a character. How is he any better than his right wing equivalent who continually rails against PC.

Back in the day, there was Rory Bremner, who was absolutely superb at looking at politics through different personas. I didn't rely on him to form my politics either. If you want to learn about politics via comedy, try Yes (Prime) Minister, which was sourced via high ups in political circles.

[Beskar]

Back in the day, there was Rory Bremner, who was absolutely superb at looking at politics through different personas. I didn't rely on him to form my politics either. If you want to learn about politics via comedy, try Yes (Prime) Minister, which was sourced via high ups in political circles.

I own the boxset, and despite your claim, I don't rely on him to form my opinions, they are just more typically aligned with my already existing opinion. If you look back in this thread, I already made comments to which he later said in the video and I doubt he uses me as source material.

[Pannonian]

I own the boxset, and despite your claim, I don't rely on him to form my opinions, they are just more typically aligned with my already existing opinion. If you look back in this thread, I already made comments to which he later said in the video and I doubt he uses me as source material.

So you like watching him because he confirms your biases. Echo in other words. Have you ever learned anything from watching him, that you didn't already know?

[Beskar]

So you like watching him because he confirms your biases. Echo in other words. Have you ever learned anything from watching him, that you didn't already know?

I watch and listen to a lot of things, not all I agree with.

As for political sitcoms, ever watched The Newsstateman? I used to be a big fan when I was younger, even got to watch Rik Mayall perform live. Though in that version, he spoofed New Labour, you would have loved that.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Older people can become very selfish, begin to think up more and more entitlements and things the rest of society owes them etc.
So quite likely, yes. Trying to sink the ship may go a bit far, but they may want to make the best of the years they have left and not even make the connection to the future of their children. Don't fall for the romanticized image of the wise old Hollywood grandpa. There may be some of them around, but that ain't make them a majority.

This can be the case with the old and senile - it is not the case with anyone of that age group I have met who retains their faculties. This includes, in addition to many family friends, my parents and by aunts and uncles. My family is quite intellectual and we discuss politics frequently so I can tell your their opinions with some confidence.

With regard to Corbyn specifically, I can tell you my elders see hims as anything from a dangerous revolutionary making common cause with the IRA to "useful idiot" terrorists have used to grant themselves legitimacy.

My personnal experience of this age group is that they become more inflexible and sometimes cynical as they age, but they do not become selfish or cruel. If your experience of your own family is different then I apologise.

He is a comedian who examines current affairs and puts it through a lens outraged reporter. "telling it as it is". Not only are the points publicised but overshadowed, he delivers them in a raw way which speaks to straight to people without the pomp and fluff. If you are not wanting to listen to anything he says, might as well cover your eyes and ears and just avoid 99.9% of all places which discusses politics.

He's putting forth a caricature, one that (among other things) blames the sitting government for everything when, as noted, this is a problem in the "Liberal" parties that control th devolved administrations too - and the problem is apathy (and lack of funds).

[Montmorency]

He's putting forth a caricature, one that (among other things) blames the sitting government for everything when, as noted, this is a problem in the "Liberal" parties that control th devolved administrations too - and the problem is apathy (and lack of funds).

Then again, Kensington has been a Conservative/Lib-Dem district for the past generation.

[Pannonian]

I watch and listen to a lot of things, not all I agree with.

As for political sitcoms, ever watched The Newsstateman? I used to be a big fan when I was younger, even got to watch Rik Mayall perform live. Though in that version, he spoofed New Labour, you would have loved that.

I saw the original, just as I saw the original Red Dwarf. And like the revived Red Dwarf, I didn't watch the new New Statesman. I caught Blackadder Back & Forth, but that only confirmed by view that revived comedies are nowhere near as good as the originals. Brass Eye wasn't as good as The Day Today either.

[Pannonian]

This can be the case with the old and senile - it is not the case with anyone of that age group I have met who retains their faculties. This includes, in addition to many family friends, my parents and by aunts and uncles. My family is quite intellectual and we discuss politics frequently so I can tell your their opinions with some confidence.

With regard to Corbyn specifically, I can tell you my elders see hims as anything from a dangerous revolutionary making common cause with the IRA to "useful idiot" terrorists have used to grant themselves legitimacy.

My personnal experience of this age group is that they become more inflexible and sometimes cynical as they age, but they do not become selfish or cruel. If your experience of your own family is different then I apologise.

He's putting forth a caricature, one that (among other things) blames the sitting government for everything when, as noted, this is a problem in the "Liberal" parties that control th devolved administrations too - and the problem is apathy (and lack of funds).

It's the modus operandi of someone who's never had to make things work, but is only interested in pointing out that things don't work. That's why I hate idiots who parrot the HIGNFY method of dismissing someone or something with a one liner, often in the form "Is this the same xxx who did xxx once upon a time?" If someone who properly knows the subject and what these telltale signs mean points it out, then I'll bow to their judgement. But some wannabe comedian? I don't think so.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Then again, Kensington has been a Conservative/Lib-Dem district for the past generation.

Cladding buildings was a Labour policy, designed to reduce heating bills for the poor and elderly.

[Montmorency]

Cladding buildings was a Labour policy, designed to reduce heating bills for the poor and elderly.

The potential issue here seems to be the specific form of cladding used, since AFAIK most if not all buildings use cladding of some sort.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The potential issue here seems to be the specific form of cladding used, since AFAIK most if not all buildings use cladding of some sort.

In the UK most buildings use cavity insulation. Cladding is used to retrofit older buildings, it was a big thing under Blair and Brown especially.

[Montmorency]

Article on the various reports and complaints made about the structure and fire risk over past two decades.

There is growing evidence that the rush by private firms to fulfill council contracts as cheaply as possible led to less expensive cladding being used that was not as fire resistant.

The Reynobond cladding fixed to the Grenfell tower last year was made from powder-coated aluminium panels that are usually filled with plastic insulation, which is flammable.

On Friday Worcester based firm Omnis Exteriors said it had been asked to supply cheaper cladding to the installer, Harley Facades, which did not meet strict fire-retardant specifications.

The safer sheets were only £2 a square metre more expensive meaning that for an extra £5,000 the building could have been encased in a material which may have resisted the fire for longer. The cheaper version is banned from use on tall buildings in the US and Germany.

In the UK most buildings use cavity insulation.

So, internal vs. external cladding.

Cladding is used to retrofit older buildings, it was a big thing under Blair and Brown especially.

Is it a problem then with the policy, or with local implementation (Tory-led or otherwise)? Point out some references on the policies in question.

At any rate, the current populist position is that the recent cladding was installed as an aesthetic feature rather than as a purely infrastructural one.

Meanwhile, here's an op-ed declaiming against high-rises in concept as anti-social and un-ergonomic compared to low-rises. Can't we just have a Brutalist renaissance in flats?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Article on the various reports and complaints made about the structure and fire risk over past two decades.

So, internal vs. external cladding.

Is it a problem then with the policy, or with local implementation (Tory-led or otherwise)? Point out some references on the policies in question.

At any rate, the current populist position is that the recent cladding was installed as an aesthetic feature rather than as a purely infrastructural one.

Meanwhile, here's an op-ed declaiming against high-rises in concept as anti-social and un-ergonomic compared to low-rises. Can't we just have a Brutalist renaissance in flats?

High Rises are definitely evil.

In the UK the wall cavities are usually filled with soft lagging, not solid panels such as those used on the high rise. On older buildings it might be internal with plasterboard over the top, in newer buildings it'll actually be between two layers of bricks or concrete.

I would say that the cladding on the building was intended to be both insulation and aesthetic. The idea being to make the building look less tired for the residents as well as everyone else. Like everything local government does, though, it was done too cheaply.

[Beskar]

Theresa May is being escorted away from the public, due to "safety concerns" as PFH put it, whilst Jeremy Corbyn is at Glastonbury, receiving an encore of cheers and chanting praising him.

There is definitely a big difference between the two leaders.

[Pannonian]

Theresa May is being escorted away from the public, due to "safety concerns" as PFH put it, whilst Jeremy Corbyn is at Glastonbury, receiving an encore of cheers and chanting praising him.

There is definitely a big difference between the two leaders.

One of them lives in 10 Downing Street, the other one doesn't.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Theresa May is being escorted away from the public, due to "safety concerns" as PFH put it, whilst Jeremy Corbyn is at Glastonbury, receiving an encore of cheers and chanting praising him.

There is definitely a big difference between the two leaders.

A sad indictment of the state of British politics and the ignorance which media outlets have fostered among the masses.

It just occurred to me that Corbyn is a Hipster's politicians. They think he's new and fresh because they're too young to remember the period he's harking back to.

[Pannonian]

A sad indictment of the state of British politics and the ignorance which media outlets have fostered among the masses.

It just occurred to me that Corbyn is a Hipster's politicians. They think he's new and fresh because they're too young to remember the period he's harking back to.

I've posted links to The Wilderness Years before. Onscreen accounts from every Labour leader from the last 40 years (with the exception of John Smith, who was dead). Widely recognised by politicians and politicos of all colours as one of the best documentaries on politics ever made, it was dismissed here as "a video". And then you have Beskar posting videos of Jonathan Pie, a comedian speaking via a persona, and claiming that it's "the raw truth". Michael Gove may be a , but he was speaking the truth when he said that Britons have had enough of experts.

[rory_20_uk]

Theresa May is being escorted away from the public, due to "safety concerns" as PFH put it, whilst Jeremy Corbyn is at Glastonbury, receiving an encore of cheers and chanting praising him.

There is definitely a big difference between the two leaders.

Corbyn is doing what he loves - basking in the adulation of believers, criticising others whilst doing sweet FA: he can be hugging people and attending pop concerts because he is not running a country. Any policies involving money aren't based in reality - upping money to everyone with increased wages (why stop at a minimum wage of £10 an hour? Why not £20?) As if the crippling inflation of the 1970's was a good thing. Proof? Evidence? Basic viability? Pah, you right wing plant!

I don't particularly like May. She seems to be a rather robotic person with few drives beyond being in power. But then how does that differ from most other politicians?

And local politicians appear to be if anything worse - any powers facets that they have been tasked with often fail scrutiny which is why the Government is so keen to have none.

[Beskar]

I've posted links to The Wilderness Years before. Onscreen accounts from every Labour leader from the last 40 years (with the exception of John Smith, who was dead). Widely recognised by politicians and politicos of all colours as one of the best documentaries on politics ever made, it was dismissed here as "a video". And then you have Beskar posting videos of Jonathan Pie, a comedian speaking via a persona, and claiming that it's "the raw truth". Michael Gove may be a , but he was speaking the truth when he said that Britons have had enough of experts.

If you put it like that, you can make anything sound bad. Let me do the same.

Pannanion likes to point to opinions of two-bit politico's who comment that Corbyn smells funny and must be stopped at any cost, because they dislike having a bit of democratic socialism in the democratic socialist party, calling it unelectable and fails to understand why the membership wants him as its leader. He likes to call anything giving anti-Corbyn opinion as 'primary sources' and 'experts', but when a political comedian calls out on a current government policy of putting a veneer over poverty with these flammable cladding, he calls it dumb and dismisses it even though it is a current national scandal which he described plainly and bluntly because his copy of the Daily Mail had a new article where they drew Corbyn supporters as the IRA. So whilst Orwell in Animal Farm warns of sheep bleating, Pannanion prefers like them to defer to toe the line the pigs give and not think for himself.

I am sure you feel the above might come across as an unfair representation, so don't do it yourself.

[Pannonian]

If you put it like that, you can make anything sound bad. Let me do the same.

Pannanion likes to point to opinions of two-bit politico's who comment that Corbyn smells funny and must be stopped at any cost, because they dislike having a bit of democratic socialism in the democratic socialist party, calling it unelectable and fails to understand why the membership wants him as its leader. He likes to call anything giving anti-Corbyn opinion as 'primary sources' and 'experts', but when a political comedian calls out on a current government policy of putting a veneer over poverty with these flammable cladding, he calls it dumb and dismisses it even though it is a current national scandal which he described plainly and bluntly because his copy of the Daily Mail had a new article where they drew Corbyn supporters as the IRA. So whilst Orwell in Animal Farm warns of sheep bleating, Pannanion prefers like them to defer to toe the line the pigs give and not think for himself.

I am sure you feel the above might come across as an unfair representation, so don't do it yourself.

I pointed towards a documentary that's practically universally highly regarded by people who have made a career of politics or studied politics. The documentary featured people talking to the camera and explaining themselves and their actions. Here are some of the talking heads from that documentary.

Jim Callaghan (Labour leader 1976-1980, PM 1976-79)
Michael Foot (Labour leader 1980-1983)
Neil Kinnock (Labour leader 1983-1992)
Tony Blair (Labour leader 1994-2007, PM 1997-2007)
Gordon Brown (Labour leader 2007-2010, PM 2007-2010)
Jeremy Corbyn (Labour leader 2015-)

Going beyond leaders of the Labour party, here are some of the other talking heads (that I can remember).

Roy Hattersley
Denis Healey
Tony Benn
Gerald Kaufman

Note the difference in calibre between the above and Jonathan Pie, whom you regard as some kind of authority on politics. Actually, I'll have another skim through the first episode and list a few more names.

Peter Shore
Michael Meacher
Joe Ashton
Tony Banks
Roy Jenkins
Shirley Williams
David Owen
Chris Mullin
Jack Straw
Mike Thomas

If you don't recognise any of the names, add MP as a suffix.

And in comparison,

If you put it like that, you can make anything sound bad. Let me do the same.

Pannanion likes to point to opinions of two-bit politico's who comment that Corbyn smells funny and must be stopped at any cost, because they dislike having a bit of democratic socialism in the democratic socialist party, calling it unelectable and fails to understand why the membership wants him as its leader. He likes to call anything giving anti-Corbyn opinion as 'primary sources' and 'experts', but when a political comedian calls out on a current government policy of putting a veneer over poverty with these flammable cladding, he calls it dumb and dismisses it even though it is a current national scandal which he described plainly and bluntly because his copy of the Daily Mail had a new article where they drew Corbyn supporters as the IRA. So whilst Orwell in Animal Farm warns of sheep bleating, Pannanion prefers like them to defer to toe the line the pigs give and not think for himself.

I am sure you feel the above might come across as an unfair representation, so don't do it yourself.

I'm sure Paul Merton is topical too. I don't regard him as an authority on politics and government though.

[Beskar]

I will reply properly when I can. But I do have a question, I remember your documentary but I don't remember anyone dismissing it or voicing anything against it?

I do remember a incident where you referenced an MP who talked about Corbyn thugs barging into offices and intimidating people. This incident has also been investigated since by the Speaker of the House and it was discovered that the person in question was talking a huge pile of cow platter as they were just trying to use the media to smear Corbyn and those who work for him. I remember Idaho calling the source out on that one and linked to a reporters article on it and you told him his source was bad as she is an MP and a 'primary source' whilst he just linked to a reporter.

On work break and on phone, but Google should be able to provide the names and details of the incident for review.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7156991.html

[Beskar]

Where have you Theresa May supporters seemingly disappeared to? I thought you would be over the moon to find out that Theresa May actually found a money tree and is spending over £billion for the Government to become "Strong and Stable".

£100millin per vote, what a steal!

[Idaho]

Tories like winners. They liked may when they thought she would win. Now they pretend they never liked her.

Meanwhile the latest social attitudes survey results:

61% of people think it is wrong for benefit claimants to use legal loopholes to increase their payments,compared with 48% who think it is wrong to use legal loopholes to pay less tax.
The view that it was acceptable to use legal loopholes to pay less tax was most strongly felt among people who were better off.

Tories... Loss aversion and self interest.

Of course offering tax breaks to wealthy people and encouraging old white people to vote with scare stories of waves of immigration is democracy. Whereas offering improvements in pay and public services and encouraging young people and ethnic minority groups to vote is cynical bribery and undemocratic.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Where have you Theresa May supporters seemingly disappeared to? I thought you would be over the moon to find out that Theresa May actually found a money tree and is spending over £billion for the Government to become "Strong and Stable".

£100millin per vote, what a steal!

Someone observed the other day that, given that there are about 10 Conservative MP's in Devon-and-Cornwall we could also hold the government to ransom as this area is always under-funded.

It should also be pointed out that Theresa May was never popular, she was however seen as competent.

Her miss-handling of the election campaign destroyed any real belief in her competency.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Tories like winners. They liked may when they thought she would win. Now they pretend they never liked her.

Corbyn awfully popular on the Opposition benches now, isn't he? People clambering over themselves to apologise and ask for a seat on his Front Bench.

Political parties need to win elections - they will always support a leader they think will win.

[Idaho]

Corbyn awfully popular on the Opposition benches now, isn't he? People clambering over themselves to apologise and ask for a seat on his Front Bench.

Political parties need to win elections - they will always support a leader they think will win.

If I was Corbyn, I would enact an old skool purge of the blairites. Well at least get a few of them deselected and have the rest kiss the sword.

[Beskar]

Someone observed the other day that, given that there are about 10 Conservative MP's in Devon-and-Cornwall we could also hold the government to ransom as this area is always under-funded..

Then do advise your MPs to do it and not to be taken for granted. Devon and Cornwall are within the Union too.

If I was being honest, Theresa May should have tried to reach out to the opposition, such as Labour, in attempt to craft compromises on policies rather trying to ramrod them through Parliament.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

If I was Corbyn, I would enact an old skool purge of the blairites. Well at least get a few of them deselected and have the rest kiss the sword.

Isn't that just a bit, well, Stalinist?

Then do advise your MPs to do it and not to be taken for granted. Devon and Cornwall are within the Union too.

If I was being honest, Theresa May should have tried to reach out to the opposition, such as Labour, in attempt to craft compromises on policies rather trying to ramrod them through Parliament.

Strangely enough, this was suggested by a Labour supporter.

The thought of such "Pork Barrel" politics in the UK horrifies me though.

And you're wrong, we're not part of the Union - we're part of England - and so is Cornwall whether they like it or not.