The March of the Nurses: Overwhelming support of RCN members for Strike Action

[Beskar]

Nurses vote for Ballot on Strike Action

The Royal College of Nursing is globally the biggest voluntary body of Nurses and is 'the Union' for Nurses within the United Kingdom. Historically, the RCN have been very resistance against strike action, with smaller unions such as Unison and Unite being the ones actively advocating strike action. After a decade of cuts and a real terms cut of pay of 20% over a decade, the struggles of Nurses are finally come to a point where the RCN polled its members. 4 out of 5 Nurses voted in support of Strike Action.

A friend of mine at RCN congress today:

They just announced this at Congress earlier on today, it was honestly so passionate and brilliant! This one guy had the whole room in tears! It was great

With Jeremy 'unt alienating Junior Doctors and now the Nursing profession, perhaps there will finally be a wake up call to the problems the Conservative government have caused within the NHS.

[Fragony]

Better give them what they want (and deserve)

[HopAlongBunny]

As someone who dialyzes 3 times a week, I can't imagine denying them whatever they want.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Let's not compare the plight of hardworking Nurses with the non-plight of greedy junior doctors who want more money to work nights.

[Beskar]

Both Corbyn and Tim Carton added the RCN conference whilst the Conservatives were a no show.

From the Nursing times:
The prime minister has shown “contempt” to the Royal College of Nursing and nurses generally by not attending this year’s RCN annual conference, according to its members.

Theresa May this morning confirmed she will not be attending RCN congress this week, despite the leaders of Labour and the Liberal Democrats both addressing delegates at the event yesterday.

All leaders of the political parties were invited to Liverpool and told that time would be made for them on the congress agenda, shortly after the snap general election was announced.

It was hoped that after Jeremy Corbyn and Tim Farron addressed nurses on Monday pressure would mount on Theresa May to attend personally or send health secretary Jeremy Hunt.

Yet as congress opened this morning, RCN chief executive and general secretary Janet Davies read out an email she had received from Ms May’s office confirming the prime minister would not attend the event.

Email:

“I am afraid that it will not be possible for the prime minister to attend the Royal College of Nursing congress this year, but please do accept her best wishes for a successful event.

Britain’s nurses do a fantastic job and deserve our thanks and support. They ensure that patients in our NHS get world-class care, and so we have made it a priority to recruit thousands more since we’ve been in government to help those already working hard.

The Conservative Party’s manifesto will be published shortly and will set out how we will go on supporting the NHS in the next Parliament.

Thank you again for the invitation.”

However, as the comments about nurses deserving “thanks and support” were read out, some members of the audience shouted out “pay”.

Shortly afterwards, a call was made for an emergency item to be added to the congress agenda stating that the prime minister was showing the RCN and nurses “contempt” by not attending.

The proposed resolution also asked Ms Davies to reply to Ms May’s letter “in the strongest terms”.

To applause, the emergency resolution was voted onto the agenda and just as swiftly was passed without debate.

It was proposed by RCN member Linda Bailey and seconded by former college president Andrea Spyropoulos.

Wording of the resolution:

That this meeting of RCN Congress deplores the contempt shown in the letter from the prime minster for the Royal College of Nursing and the nursing family, and asks the general secretary to reply to her in the strongest possible terms

[Beskar]

Let's not compare the plight of hardworking Nurses with the non-plight of greedy junior doctors who want more money to work nights.

Well, it was more about the fact they got a significant pay cut as they changed Night hours to starting at 10pm and they also significantly decreased the amount they got paid for working nights too. So it wasn't them asking for more, it was the fact they objected to earning a lot less as they lose thousands per year with the changes. Junior Doctors were also backbone of night services as there are obvious reasons they don't want consultant doctors doing it.

So I disagree with the fact it is a non-plight.

[Beskar]

Letter sent by RCN -

The letter from the RCN in full
‘Thank you for your response to my two letters of 21st April and 14th May.

‘I shared your letter with congress this morning, who were extremely dissatisfied in your response on behalf of the prime minister.

'Our members are disappointed and saddened, and feel disrespected by the Prime Minister.

‘Nurses were keen to hear from the prime minister personally about her plans to alleviate the difficult, and sometimes impossible situation, in which they are working.

‘Whilst we are pleased the prime minister states that she recognises the value of nursing, this does not reassure us, and feels like empty platitudes when we see no real action being taken to improve the lives of both patients and nurses.

‘This week, our members have spoken passionately about their own personal experiences, working both with insufficient resources to do their job safely and effectively, and insufficient resources to live their lives well, pay their bills and care for their families, or even travel to work to do the job they love so much.

‘Our members have taken the unprecedented step of voting for a summer of planned protest. Many never thought it would come to this and are now looking for guarantees that this government will listen and act on the voice of nurses who keep our NHS going in the most difficult times.

‘I enclose a copy of our manifesto, which I urge the prime minister, should the Conservative Party win the next general election, to enforce in full.’

[Beskar]

Just quoting another article explaining the other problems facing Nurses pay.

Agenda for Change – pay system implemented across the NHS in 2004 and designed to ensure equal pay for work of equal value
Job creep – where lower banded staff take on additional duties and responsibilities, often due to work pressures and staffing shortages, but their pay band is not increased accordingly
Downbanding – where managers reduce the number of higher banded staff and create lower banded roles to replace them. Nurses then often report still being expected to work at the higher level but not being recognised for it

This is one of the big problems Nurses have with the Nursing Associates role. After downgrading support staff from Band 3 to Band 2, the significant increases to the job role of being a Nurse, it appears it is an attempt by proxy to have Nurse-led role at significantly less pay.

Contrary to the old view of Nurses simple tending to care needs, Nurses now-a-days are expected to be Clinical Leaders, leading teams of unregistered and informal carers to plan Person-Centred care for patients and adopt a public health promotion role. What the public don't realise is that the Nurses are the ones in charge of your care, as the doctor/consultant mostly just write a prescription on observation and nurse feedback and then nurses design and implement the package of care.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, it was more about the fact they got a significant pay cut as they changed Night hours to starting at 10pm and they also significantly decreased the amount they got paid for working nights too. So it wasn't them asking for more, it was the fact they objected to earning a lot less as they lose thousands per year with the changes. Junior Doctors were also backbone of night services as there are obvious reasons they don't want consultant doctors doing it.

So I disagree with the fact it is a non-plight.

Free training, basic starting salary of £22,000, automatic access to a privileged subset of the Middle Class, good progression options, plus the option to go private in a few years and rank in real money.

Yeah, sorry, non-plight.

Cutting pay for Junior doctors' unsociable hours is exactly the thing the NHS should be doing, that money should then be re-allocated to raise the pay of Nurses across the board.

[Beskar]

Cutting pay for Junior doctors' unsociable hours is exactly the thing the NHS should be doing, that money should then be re-allocated to raise the pay of Nurses across the board.

I am just going to include some facts in comparison to Nurses.

Training
Junior Doctors = 4 years of self-funded (£37000) for Medical Degree, then they are funded from Year 5 when they started placements.
Nurses = Previously 'free' but Student Nurses had full-time unpaid work (with Uni ontop). Now they are paying £27750 to do unpaid work and Uni ontop!
*these figures do not include maintenance loans.

Salary:
Junior Doctor = Average: £37,000. (1st year training: £23,000, 2nd year training: £28,000. Specialist Training (3rd year): £30,000-£47,000 (Depends)) for 48-56 hours a week.
NQ Nurses (in 2017/18) = £22,128 for 36.5 hours a week.
*Salary does not include top-ups for night or weekend work, other than the 'average' figure.

lulz comparisons...
London Underground Train Driver: £45,000
Tesco Shelf Stacker: £14,000
Tesco Manager: £40,000
McDonalds Trainee Manager: £21,500
Police Officer: £19,383

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oh no, student loans - just like everyone else.

First World Problem.

Junior doctors are adequately paid - and whilst they pay four their degree the reality is that medical training takes significantly longer than five years.

One does not, for example, enter the Royal College of Surgeons after only a year of practice.

[Beskar]

Oh no, student loans - just like everyone else.

First World Problem.

I am presuming you are meaning the Junior Doctors...

For Student Nurses, the situation is more complicated as it attracts a large proportion of Mature Students, so people who have already been through University before (See: Debt), been working in healthcare or different fields, have family, juggling expenses. Mature students are also necessary as they come up with "Lived Experience" which is very important (Especially in Mental Health). The removal of Nursing Bursary has decimated Mature Student numbers in Nursing and reductions of 25% for those coming straight from Highschool (but typically, it is people who have had at least 1 year in clinical setting or residential/care home).

[Fragony]

Not really OT but nurses here absolutily don't need a university-degree

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I am just going to include some facts in comparison to Nurses.

Training
Junior Doctors = 4 years of self-funded (£37000) for Medical Degree, then they are funded from Year 5 when they started placements.
Nurses = Previously 'free' but Student Nurses had full-time unpaid work (with Uni ontop). Now they are paying £27750 to do unpaid work and Uni ontop!
*these figures do not include maintenance loans.

Salary:
Junior Doctor = Average: £37,000. (1st year training: £23,000, 2nd year training: £28,000. Specialist Training (3rd year): £30,000-£47,000 (Depends)) for 48-56 hours a week.
NQ Nurses (in 2017/18) = £22,128 for 36.5 hours a week.
*Salary does not include top-ups for night or weekend work, other than the 'average' figure.

lulz comparisons...
London Underground Train Driver: £45,000
Tesco Shelf Stacker: £14,000
Tesco Manager: £40,000
McDonalds Trainee Manager: £21,500
Police Officer: £19,383

MP: £74,000 & Allowances

[Greyblades]

Funnily enough just underneath the threshold for labours proposed high earners tax.

Ah wait, wrong thread.

[Beskar]

Not really OT but nurses here absolutily don't need a university-degree

Modern Nurses do. It is because they need to be able to research Evidence Based Practice and implement this. They have responsibility for innovation and change in their environment, leadership and delegating unregistered staff in teams, designing and implementing packages of care, being able to do limited prescribing of medication and advanced clinical skills. The bar in the UK is getting set rather high with the new competencies/standards being introduced (part of why getting real-terms pay cuts is insulting).

Some random articles on the subject:
https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/ed...68.article?v=1
http://councilofdeans.org.uk/2016/08...istered-nurse/
http://www.independentnurse.co.uk/ne...nurses/114527/
https://rcni.com/nursing-standard/ne...s-reveal-78841
https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/ed...004047.article

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Modern Nurses do. It is because they need to be able to research Evidence Based Practice and implement this. They have responsibility for innovation and change in their environment, leadership and delegating unregistered staff in teams, designing and implementing packages of care, being able to do limited prescribing of medication and advanced clinical skills....

RNs here have, by definition acquired a 4-year degree (though not all of it in school by any means); most specialized nurses, nurse practitioners, and many administrators are effectively holders of the masters. Even our LPN's have the equivalent of an associates degree....nursing is not a field for the uneducated.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I am presuming you are meaning the Junior Doctors...

For Student Nurses, the situation is more complicated as it attracts a large proportion of Mature Students, so people who have already been through University before (See: Debt), been working in healthcare or different fields, have family, juggling expenses. Mature students are also necessary as they come up with "Lived Experience" which is very important (Especially in Mental Health). The removal of Nursing Bursary has decimated Mature Student numbers in Nursing and reductions of 25% for those coming straight from Highschool (but typically, it is people who have had at least 1 year in clinical setting or residential/care home).

Highschool?

Stop speaking American, Period.

Now, let's get down to brass tacks.

I've actually lived with a hospital nurse. Pay was not the issue - lack of care and facilities for nurses was, which is why she's jacking it in last I heard.

No changing rooms - Idaho will testify that you see nurses walking to and from the hospitals in Exeter in scrubs, which defeats the point of scrubs entirely.

[Fragony]

Modern Nurses do. It is because they need to be able to research Evidence Based Practice and implement this. They have responsibility for innovation and change in their environment, leadership and delegating unregistered staff in teams, designing and implementing packages of care, being able to do limited prescribing of medication and advanced clinical skills. The bar in the UK is getting set rather high with the new competencies/standards being introduced (part of why getting real-terms pay cuts is insulting).

Some random articles on the subject:
https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/ed...68.article?v=1
http://councilofdeans.org.uk/2016/08...istered-nurse/
http://www.independentnurse.co.uk/ne...nurses/114527/
https://rcni.com/nursing-standard/ne...s-reveal-78841
https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/ed...004047.article

Pretty small pool to fish from if you set the bar that high, what's the bar for what I assume are assistants. Being a nurse must mean something else in England, here the nurses are the assistants. Power to them anyway people doing a very difficult job are criminally underpayed here as well, a sometimes gf is absolutily exhausted when she's done I feel so sorry for her it's just too much to ask. She's higher in the ranks but she feels underapreciated as well

Other gf is angry as well, she cares for the elder and is pissed of that she's only having to tell interns with no experience (but good intentions) what to do

[Idaho]

MP: £74,000 & Allowances

And the rest! They get expenses covered for another 50k, they can get a couple of assistants paid (oddly usually they choose a family member rather than a professional and get free interns to do the work). And at the end that get a severance and pension that we'd all kill for.

lulz comparisons...
London Underground Train Driver: £45,000
Tesco Shelf Stacker: £14,000
Tesco Manager: £40,000
McDonalds Trainee Manager: £21,500
Police Officer: £19,383

I earn more than all of those and my job is stressful at times, but I wouldn't swap with any of them for the same money. Although shelf stacking isn't too bad if you are allowed headphones. I've done it before.

[Strike For The South]

Yea but it's hell on the knees.

[Beskar]

Pretty small pool to fish from if you set the bar that high, what's the bar for what I assume are assistants.

Healthcare Assistants/Support Workers? The bar is actually very low. Salary: £15,944
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/exp...care-assistant

How most wards work is that the Nurse directs and leads the support staff into more manual tasks, whilst the Nurses do the tasks with accountability and challenges. So lets say when it came to bathing, it would be the support staff, but if there are complications due to wounds or challenging behaviours, then the Nurse does it.

So on a MH Unit I have worked on, the staffing ratio was 2 Nurse and 6 Support Workers (or should be) for 16. There are times more often than not (especially on Night Shift) it is more like 1 Nurse, 3-4 Support Workers and Beds at over capacity (for 18-20).

The operation would be the two nurses with one having to dispense medication, pills, liquid and injection (at 4 intervals throughout the day and PRN) whilst the other is Shift Coordinator who delegates tasks, sits in on treatment meetings, liaisons with community staff and families, does referrals, care plans, handles the telephone calls, 1:1 chats, responding to challenging situations, etc.

the support staff usually have roles like SAS (Safety and Security) who regularly monitor people every hour, records and controls who comes in and out the ward and does checks on objects like cutlery. You have people assigned as response, who are available for going off the ward to response to a crisis/emergency situation. You have observation levels ranging from 10 minute checks to constantly within arms reach. Serving of the food, serving of drinks, helping with ward activities.

This ratio does change according the environment and setting. More acute care has significant higher ratios of nurses.

There is the new Nursing Associates, but I am unfamiliar with them myself. But here RCN description: https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-even...u-need-to-know


Also, this is a very general example of Nursing. There are General Practice Nurses, District Nurses, School Nurses, Community Nurses, Clinical Specialist Nurses, Deputy Sisters/Deputy Ward Managers, Ward Managers/Sisters, Modern Matrons.

There is a lot of variety in job roles. For example, there are clinic nurses who have the job of delivering 20+ depot injections per day, write up what was done, and have a brief health conversation with the patient. Vastly different to what happens on wards.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yea but it's hell on the knees.

I thought your bum knees were because of Louis?

[Strike For The South]

I thought your bum knees were because of Louis?

A labor of passion always seems to rejuvenate the body.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Healthcare Assistants/Support Workers? The bar is actually very low. Salary: £15,944
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/exp...care-assistant

How most wards work is that the Nurse directs and leads the support staff into more manual tasks, whilst the Nurses do the tasks with accountability and challenges. So lets say when it came to bathing, it would be the support staff, but if there are complications due to wounds or challenging behaviours, then the Nurse does it.

So on a MH Unit I have worked on, the staffing ratio was 2 Nurse and 6 Support Workers (or should be) for 16. There are times more often than not (especially on Night Shift) it is more like 1 Nurse, 3-4 Support Workers and Beds at over capacity (for 18-20).

The operation would be the two nurses with one having to dispense medication, pills, liquid and injection (at 4 intervals throughout the day and PRN) whilst the other is Shift Coordinator who delegates tasks, sits in on treatment meetings, liaisons with community staff and families, does referrals, care plans, handles the telephone calls, 1:1 chats, responding to challenging situations, etc.

the support staff usually have roles like SAS (Safety and Security) who regularly monitor people every hour, records and controls who comes in and out the ward and does checks on objects like cutlery. You have people assigned as response, who are available for going off the ward to response to a crisis/emergency situation. You have observation levels ranging from 10 minute checks to constantly within arms reach. Serving of the food, serving of drinks, helping with ward activities.

This ratio does change according the environment and setting. More acute care has significant higher ratios of nurses.

There is the new Nursing Associates, but I am unfamiliar with them myself. But here RCN description: https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-and-even...u-need-to-know


Also, this is a very general example of Nursing. There are General Practice Nurses, District Nurses, School Nurses, Community Nurses, Clinical Specialist Nurses, Deputy Sisters/Deputy Ward Managers, Ward Managers/Sisters, Modern Matrons.

There is a lot of variety in job roles. For example, there are clinic nurses who have the job of delivering 20+ depot injections per day, write up what was done, and have a brief health conversation with the patient. Vastly different to what happens on wards.

This is a great example of roles being degraded over time. Where once a ward would have a Ward Sister, a Junior Doctor and at least half a dozen nurses of varying seniority you now have two nurses (who must have degrees) and half a dozen HCA's who can't do much more than make beds, give bed-baths and deliver lunch.

Et voila - you have created a "nursing shortage" by closing nursing to those who are not fitted to taking a degree. You then backfill when someone's sick or you have too many patients with "agency nurses" of variable quality who may or may not have familiarity with your ward and who cost much more than NHS nurses.

Then you wonder why the NHS has a budget shortfall.

[Fragony]

That's what I meant with setting the bar too high, not the payment that's a different matter. These highly qualified nurses simply can't be expected to do their jobs if they alse have to 'nurse' the inexperienced personal they are responsible for, flawed situation

Friend of mine has that frustration, she is mostly busy explaining things to people who really don't want to be poor at their job. Is there anything managers can't screw up. It's exhausting and unreasonable.

[Beskar]

Nursing numbers have dropped. But let's keep them capped below inflation is great government strategy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40476867