Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[Manasi]

why can't they both be villagers?

I need to reread why he poisoned me.

I'm really not vibing with his tone though. Not a fan/10.

[Zack]

GH's main post relevant here, #278, is quoted in the summary. My response to it came shortly after, Post 281.

khaan had already self-admitted he wasn't doing a character thing. That post was just referencing how long he's been on the org.

What response were you even looking for GH to have to that?

I just don't get why it's something you're so hyper-focused on.

[Zack]

I threw more content for him to latch onto and try to spin into a case, he ignored it because mafia don't need to make a big case on D1.

like I just don't really buy this train of thought

on d1, GH didn't respond to that post, so several days later you're still really concerned with how it makes him a wolf? If he's a wolf just trying to bury khaan why not acknowledge any bone you might have thrown him and add it to his case?

And as a wolf he is perfectly willing to expend a lot of effort digging into past games, in any case.

[Montmorency]

khaan had already self-admitted he wasn't doing a character thing. That post was just referencing how long he's been on the org.

What response were you even looking for GH to have to that?

I just don't get why it's something you're so hyper-focused on.

Recall that GH's specific - and sufficient - case against Khaan was that Khaan said he doesn't like getting lynched for RPing so he doesn't do it. GH found this suspicious because Khaan hadn't been lynched for RPing in the past year, as though that meant something.

Why wouldn't GH want to have a more comprehensive case, comparing Khaan to other games? I gave him Khaan content to run with to see how he would react, and a town GH should at least have made something out of it.

If I'm making a big deal, it's because I keep getting asked about it.

[Montmorency]

like I just don't really buy this train of thought

on d1, GH didn't respond to that post, so several days later you're still really concerned with how it makes him a wolf? If he's a wolf just trying to bury khaan why not acknowledge any bone you might have thrown him and add it to his case?

And as a wolf he is perfectly willing to expend a lot of effort digging into past games, in any case.

Scum doesn't need to make an effort D1, indeed it's better for them not to make a really big commitment.

It's not just his lack of a response to my post, but his lack of any expansion to the case - he rested on the line he came out with, only moving to clarify or emphasize it to people questioning him.

[Zack]

If I'm making a big deal, it's because I keep getting asked about it.

Well you're voting for him because of it and you've been tunneling him.

[Zack]

Scum doesn't need to make an effort D1, indeed it's better for them not to make a really big commitment.

It's not just his lack of a response to my post, but his lack of any expansion to the case - he rested on the line he came out with, only moving to clarify or emphasize it to people questioning him.

I reject your assertion (in the first line) out of hand. If you think that, lynch autolycus.

For all your talk about GH being evil for not investigating khaan's past games to your liking, have you looked into GH's past games?

[Montmorency]

Well you're voting for him because of it and you've been tunneling him.

My only alternative is Barto currently. He has no votes, and you town-read him.

[Montmorency]

I reject your assertion (in the first line) out of hand. If you think that, lynch autolycus.

For all your talk about GH being evil for not investigating khaan's past games to your liking, have you looked into GH's past games?

1. It doesn't logically follow that way. Scum not wanting to be the center of attention or have to work to drive events (on D1 after all) doesn't mean, lynch the least active player.

2. If he gives me something, I will.

[Zack]

1. It doesn't logically follow that way. Scum not wanting to be the center of attention or have to work to drive events (on D1 after all) doesn't mean, lynch the least active player.

2. If he gives me something, I will.

1. but gh directly lead the d1 lynch... and brought a lot of attention to himself with the raith vote...

2. what?

Your reasoning is not internally consistent. GH is a wolf because scum don't want to be the center of attention or drive events, when he's done both of those. GH is a wolf for not sufficiently looking into khaan's past games, when you haven't bothered to look at GH's past games.

[Zack]

My only alternative is Barto currently. He has no votes, and you town-read him.

Why is he your only alternative?

What about: csargo, champ, autolycus, bsmith, jabbz?

Why does my read matter? You said you don't like my reads and you're voting GH, who I town-read, anyways.

[El Barto]

Would Monsieur de Montmorency be so kind as to inform me of his reasons to equate my standing to that of a common foot soldier who cannot even spell his name correctly?

(…) Hmm, no one's really standing out but Champ, and he has enough votes for now. I know I'm at risk of tunnel vision on Monty if I'm not careful, so I'll vote: Bsmith for now. Be back on tomorrow morning.

I am sorry, my good chum, but I do think that there is an inconsistence between your classifying BSmith as ‘null’ and voting him for the lynch whilst all the

The Fish Finger of Suspicion is pointed at you, Autolycus.

Doing my best but I overestimated the amount of time I had free, especially with this being memorial day weekend. Spent the morning with a VFW group putting flags on vet graves. Good times I know.

All I can say at the moment is that I find the voting on GHC to be odd, people make mistakes and day 1 is almost guaranteed for those. His defense does ruffle my senses a bit, he seems to be trying far to hard to be dismissive rather than actually defend himself, but then again his current travel situation could definitely justify that. I do however find his making my absence somehow a personal focus on him, rather that me just being busy. That really makes me feel like he's going after low hanging fruit.

I still stand by thinking that Logic is town for my aforementioned reasons.

I'm liking Severing more now than I did before, mostly because I thought he was Zack in hiding, now that is clearly not the case I find my reads to be substantially different likely because they were tinged by how they sounded compared to what I expected.

Zack is null, and I didn't view choxorn's case as overly substantial. My vote on Zack was purely a joke, anyone who knows about our past interaction wouldn't view that oddly I don't think.

Most of the rest I quite frankly haven't put enough time into. I would honestly be down to lynch GHC, but I feel that it is too possible the only reason he is coming across wrong is because he simply doesn't have the time to devote, so I'd be more inclined to want to see him be on the list tomorrow when he can defend himself.

I feel somewhat hypocritical supporting lynching a lurker, but in my defense I am contributing more than a few of the others, and I think that's the direction I'd head, supporting a group consensus on the matter as long as said consensus isn't myself.

You are doing nothing to allay my suspicions of you, Jabbz.

@El Barto: Why did you poison Manasi?

It was a test of character. There was a significant possibility that Manasi would be saved, as stated by our good friend the Game Master. I do hope that somebody would have employed a tracking or watching ability to clear one more Innocent, but it is not unlikely that they did not.

I guess technically English wasn't my first language so I could use that as an excuse.

Do tell us more. It might not be relate to the game at hand but I am always interested in tongues.

Now that Manasi didn't flip but continues to make towny noises, is there any reason not to lynch El Barto?

why can't they both be villagers?

That is a distinct possibility. Notice that I am not voting for Manasi after her reaction to the lynching.

[Zack]

@GeneralHankerchief

you've been active in the forum all day. are you just idling on your phone or what?

[El Barto]

Why is he your only alternative?

What about: csargo, champ, autolycus, bsmith, jabbz?

Why does my read matter? You said you don't like my reads and you're voting GH, who I town-read, anyways.

It might just be that M. Montmorency is chasing, so to speak, his own tail at this moment.

He could also be suffering from Perfect Information Syndrome, but that seems unlikely as of right now.

[Montmorency]

1. but gh directly lead the d1 lynch... and brought a lot of attention to himself with the raith vote...

2. what?

Your reasoning is not internally consistent. GH is a wolf because scum don't want to be the center of attention or drive events, when he's done both of those. GH is a wolf for not sufficiently looking into khaan's past games, when you haven't bothered to look at GH's past games.

You're distorting my statements.

He didn't make himself the center of events. Novice and Viper, and maybe one or two others, did. GH made a quick case, then stood his ground. The Raith vote was D2. I'm talking about D1 events.

I'm not blaming him for broadly not investigating other Khaan games, but for not taking opportunities to use content from other Khaan games. If GH says the content of another game makes his current play look townier, I will look at it. Until then, seeing as I haven't made a case specifically on the basis of past games' events, I don't have an obligation to.

[Montmorency]

Why is he your only alternative?

What about: csargo, champ, autolycus, bsmith, jabbz?

Why does my read matter? You said you don't like my reads and you're voting GH, who I town-read, anyways.

Neutral. Everyone is neutral, except slight town leans on you/Chox and on Viper. I've said this.

Just reminding you, chief.



Barto, I suspect you for your approach to the poisoning question yesterday.

[Zack]

You're distorting my statements.

He didn't make himself the center of events. Novice and Viper, and maybe one or two others, did. GH made a quick case, then stood his ground. The Raith vote was D2. I'm talking about D1 events.

I'm not blaming him for broadly not investigating other Khaan games, but for not taking opportunities to use content from other Khaan games. If GH says the content of another game makes his current play look townier, I will look at it. Until then, seeing as I haven't made a case specifically on the basis of past games' events, I don't have an obligation to.

why does the d2 distinction matter? If me/choxorn is a villager (which I am and you don't seem to dispute), and GH is a wolf, then his vote was purely to bring attention to himself with no real gain. A direct contradiction of what you are saying scum do. Doesn't matter if it was Day 2 instead of Day 1.

If I quote a random post GH made in another game, and you don't look into it further, will you vote yourself since that makes you scum? I'm giving you an opportunity to expand the case!

[El Barto]

Barto, I suspect you for your approach to the poisoning question yesterday.

Mon bleu! Do go on, mon ami.

[Manasi]

@El Barto

I was born in America but both of my parents moved from India to finish college, so from birth they both spoke Tamil to me. I didn't know English until I was around 3.

[Zack]

Neutral. Everyone is neutral, except slight town leans on you/Chox and on Viper. I've said this.

Just reminding you, chief.



Barto, I suspect you for your approach to the poisoning question yesterday.

Again, you think wolf Barto puts himself into the center of attention like that when he didn't need to at all?

You're starting with this assertion that mafia don't put themselves in the center of attention if they can avoid it, yet your only two scum leans in the whole game both put themselves in the center of attention when they did not need to, for seemingly little gain (as wolves). If your response to this is to say "well it's not d1," I don't buy that because what's the difference? Still early game if you want to frame it that way.

[El Barto]

I was born in America but both of my parents moved from India to finish college, so from birth they both spoke Tamil to me. I didn't know English until I was around 3.

Fascinating. We do have some more people from the former Raj here.

[novice]

So Monty, upon seeing GH make a case against Seireikhaan and noticing yourself a possible scum tell on Seireikhaan, you decide that this scum tell should be used for trapping scum GH, based on the questionable assumption that only townies would add said scum tell to their case?

It sounds incredibly contrived. Why not just join GH on the Khaan wagon and evaluate GH after seeing Khaan's flip?

[Montmorency]

why does the d2 distinction matter? If me/choxorn is a villager (which I am and you don't seem to dispute), and GH is a wolf, then his vote was purely to bring attention to himself with no real gain. A direct contradiction of what you are saying scum do. Doesn't matter if it was Day 2 instead of Day 1.

If I quote a random post GH made in another game, and you don't look into it further, will you vote yourself since that makes you scum? I'm giving you an opportunity to expand the case!

1. D1 and D2 are categorically-different stages in a game. In addition, the environments of D1 and D2 in practice for this game are different. I don't accept your bizarre implication that GH's actions shouldn't be affected by the thread history or activity.
2. Unlikely, since it's just a random quote that probably has no relevance to the present.

[El Barto]

Again, you think wolf Barto puts himself into the center of attention like that when he didn't need to at all?

Given that one poisoner already was deceased, it would have been surprisingly easy to pin that death on him or any others that might later be revealed.

[Montmorency]

Again, you think wolf Barto puts himself into the center of attention like that when he didn't need to at all?

You're starting with this assertion that mafia don't put themselves in the center of attention if they can avoid it, yet your only two scum leans in the whole game both put themselves in the center of attention when they did not need to, for seemingly little gain (as wolves). If your response to this is to say "well it's not d1," I don't buy that because what's the difference? Still early game if you want to frame it that way.

For the Raith vote, I did in fact mention that it's a slightly-townward factor. A scum GH could have been using it to his advantage. It's not clearing.

Barto in particular likes to take the center of attention with panache, especially as scum.

So Monty, upon seeing GH make a case against Seireikhaan and noticing yourself a possible scum tell on Seireikhaan, you decide that this scum tell should be used for trapping scum GH, based on the questionable assumption that only townies would add said scum tell to their case?

It sounds incredibly contrived. Why not just join GH on the Khaan wagon and evaluate GH after seeing Khaan's flip?

Why would I join him on Khaan? You mean, to develop a case over several days? I don't have that patience.

[Zack]

For the Raith vote, I did in fact mention that it's a slightly-townward factor. A scum GH could have been using it to his advantage. It's not clearing.

Barto in particular likes to take the center of attention with panache, especially as scum.



Why would I join him on Khaan? You mean, to develop a case over several days? I don't have that patience.

What specifically makes the d2 environment different from d1?

I disagree about Barto. When we were scum teammates in Pizza's recent game, he just lurked and did nothing. It was pretty much the exact opposite of being the center of attention.

It also bothers me how you just call everyone neutral. Add on to that your barto and gh reads, and it feels like you don't really care that much about finding wolves. Your only scum leans are contrived for reasons I've pointed out (they did ONE THING you DID NOT LIKE so you won't let it go and you'll stay in that tunnel while they live), and you don't even bother to try giving a read on most of the game.

[Montmorency]

D1: Sooh, Novice, and Viper dominate the first half discussing meta and stuff. In the second half, GH creates the Khaan wagon, while Choxorn and I say some things that people don't like and become wagons.

D2: Chox is again a target, but the first half of the day is dominated by Barto and Manasi and the poisoning issue, as well as discussion over block claims. Barto issue fades for resolution overnight. GH is still low-key. Wants Choxorn, auto, and Barto lynched. GH deploys a customary chaos-dunk on Raith at the very end that could make himself look better in the long-run, even if it may piss a few people off for D3.

[Champ]

Is it wrong to village read novice for doing the post counts?

[novice]

BSmith's posts, if anybody's interested.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Apologies for being AWOL. Typical weekend for me, unfortunately. I have read absolutely zero of the thread so far, so vote: Monty for purely random reasons. Will do my best to read and get caught up before end of day.

Third Party Neutral Survivor? If only he’d claimed right away we could have avoided this whole mess.


RANDBETWEEN(1,17) told me to?


vote: Monty because of the above this time. Extremely open to changing this though.

As for me, RL is even busier than normal and work (where I normally post from) is no exception these days. Don’t expect a lot from me. Policy lynch me if you must – I won’t fight it (much), but know that I am not lurker scum this game. I’ll do my best to keep up but I’ll likely be on the lower end of my activity spectrum this game. I won't directly claim, but will say it rhymes with Manila.

What is/was the effect of the poisoning?

Bit of an x-post there. If you don't get cured you die at EOD? Is that the net effect?

As scum I’d much rather eliminate someone that goes against my victory condition. I’d chose to leave alone someone who I didn’t need to kill to win.

I can only speak for my end of the deal, but I hadn’t even read the thread yet when I made that post. It was truly random using a list of the players in excel and using that formula to get to the row number of the player to vote for. Monty was the lucky winner.

Yes.


Yes.


No. It’s day one. The only person I care about not dying is me.


My name was on the list too, so I suppose I might have re-rolled if my number came up. But maybe not. Wouldn’t have re-rolled anyone else though.


Because I hadn’t read any of the thread, and excel was a way to make my choice truly random. I was hoping to get caught up before EOD and potentially change my vote, but I wasn’t able to make that happen.

Well, sure. But even if I didn’t know, I’d rather have killed/lynched a townie than a neutral third party.

I think we're mixed up. I am talking from a hypothetical scum perspective. Not a townie one. As a townie I'd rather leave a neutral survivor alone as well to focus on scumhunting.

unvote; vote: Barto I'm fine putting some pressure on here. Barto is damn near impossible to read, but the change in his tone this game, along with the seemingly odd choice of poisoning target earns my vote for now.

The noise to substance ratio is beginning to get out of whack...

vote: Champ. A fair amount of posts but I don't remember a damn one. Seems active but isn't really doing much.

I've just collected the posts, my only takeaway so far is that BSmith is unlikely to be paired with Monty, seeing how BSmith's random vote almost got Monty lynched.

Apart from that... His votes seem very "uncontroversial", which is a red flag in principle, but understandable for someone short on time.

[Champ]

I'll just village read him