Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[novice]

How are things going with you, my good lady?

For the record: El Barto alluding to the poisoning early today.

Wait, you blocked GH last night, someone died, so now you want him lynched?
And now you want a scanner to claim?

Vote:Montmorency

I agree with GH that this vote doesn't leave the best impression. Quick to jump straight to voting when the obvious logical fallacy that Autolycus read from Monty's post should signal a need for clarification more than it should signal scummy intent. Also, Monty has been calling for scanners to claim since his opening post.

I don't know what's going on. Just tell me who scans type.

Or Vote: novice gets it.

[El Barto]

How would that clear any of the players involved?

*reads the bolded*

Oh, ok. The poison only kills townies, or something?

No, no, my good sir; it is, quite more simply, that Manasi is scheduled to die at the end of Night Two, not Day one as she's claimed.

I'm not misrepresenting anything.

You can check french rev if you want.

I literally suck at looking at private messages.

As you prove time and again.

For the record: El Barto alluding to the poisoning early today.

I am glad that somebody noticed. Yes, I was trying to draw Manasi out.

[SeveringViper]

Barto's claim is a dangerous one. Now Barto needs to be killed at night - but then, if he's town, that defeats the purpose. But if he doesn't die, well what if the Mafia had a higher-priority target?

And with Cuth, it might be easier to believe one character with 2 delayed day-vigs rather than two characters with one. We are Pokemon, after all, and with so much variety why should there be two poison-types exactly?

Don't count Barto out on this claim.

Why should he need to be killed at night now that he has claimed to be powerless? Scum have higher-priority targets in anyone that still can use their role ability.

Why should there be three roleblockers?

Who is doing that?

Manasi survives. Or are they all in on it and announcing it to the world early game?

She survives and X claims to be her savior. Where's the proof that it was them?
Say Y counterclaims X on that, who do you trust?
It really doesn't do much on its own, does it?

[Montmorency]

No, no, my good sir; it is, quite more simply, that Manasi is scheduled to die at the end of Night Two, not Day one as she's claimed.

As El Barto would say: !

Why should he need to be killed at night now that he has claimed to be powerless? Scum have higher-priority targets in anyone that still can use their role ability.

Why should there be three roleblockers?

Who is doing that?

Exactly. A perfectly plausible position - among others. You see?

Roleblock, as far as Mafia goes, is pretty generic. Delayed vig is rarer, and Poison is type-dependent for the flavor, so two townie delayed-killing shots, both poison-type is in my mind less likely than one poison-type townie with two delayed-killing shots. Or maybe Barto wants to throw down and make things spicy. That's why his claim that Manasi misreported the details of the effect is so noteworthy and needs to be explored. See below...

It's a caution.

She survives and X claims to be her savior. Where's the proof that it was them?
Say Y counterclaims X on that, who do you trust?
It really doesn't do much on its own, does it?

None, but at that layer it becomes an increasingly-risky play for scum, unless they are all scum, in which case the entire team just outed themselves for a very unclear benefit.

But as per my caution, mechanically it is not really clearing for anyone in particular since Manasi could be scum affected, Barto could be scum covering for their kill, or the rescuer could be scum themselves. Certain combinations are less likely than others, however.

[SeveringViper]

Exactly. A perfectly plausible position - among others. You see?

I'm afraid I don't, what are you trying to say?

Roleblock, as far as Mafia goes, is pretty generic. Delayed vig is rarer, and Poison is type-dependent for the flavor, so two townie delayed-killing shots, both poison-type is in my mind less likely than one poison-type townie with two delayed-killing shots. Or maybe Barto wants to throw down and make things spicy. That's why his claim that Manasi misreported the details of the effect is so noteworthy and needs to be explored. See below...

Fair enough. But Cuth already flipped as poisoner, so by this reasoning, Barto is now a suspect, yes?
The issue of her claimed misrepresentation is interesting, but let me add another point, why would she deliberately lie about how long she has and risk being exposed like this?

It's a caution.

Alright then.

None, but at that layer it becomes an increasingly-risky play for scum, unless they are all scum, in which case the entire team just outed themselves for a very unclear benefit.

But as per my caution, mechanically it is not really clearing for anyone in particular since Manasi could be scum affected, Barto could be scum covering for their kill, or the rescuer could be scum themselves. Certain combinations are less likely than others, however.

See, the last paragraph is my point. It can be any combination, and Barto saying all three would be cleared is just off.

[BSmith]

Really?

Yes.

You were voting blind in earnest?

Yes.

Didn't you fear that would do more harm than good?

No. It’s day one. The only person I care about not dying is me.

Or would you have rerolled some results, so it wasn't really random?

My name was on the list too, so I suppose I might have re-rolled if my number came up. But maybe not. Wouldn’t have re-rolled anyone else though.

Why bother with an excel sheet at all, wouldn't it be simpler to just pick a scummy-sounding post and vote that person?

Because I hadn’t read any of the thread, and excel was a way to make my choice truly random. I was hoping to get caught up before EOD and potentially change my vote, but I wasn’t able to make that happen.

[BSmith]

For that to apply here you would have to know the individual was a survivor BEFORE you killed him, which I find unlikely.

Well, sure. But even if I didn’t know, I’d rather have killed/lynched a townie than a neutral third party.

[Logic]

Well, sure. But even if I didn’t know, I’d rather have killed/lynched a townie than a neutral third party.

But why?

At the very least, a townie shares your win condition. A neutral has his or her own win condition, and if the opportunity arises to for them to win by making you lose, they will take it.

[El Barto]

No, no, my good sir; it is, quite more simply, that Manasi is scheduled to die at the end of Night Two, not Day one as she's claimed.

As El Barto would say: !

I must amend the above statement. Manasi claimed that her death was due to happen at the end of the current Day phase (D2 in the vernacular) when it is actually due to happen at the end of the coming Night phase (N2 in the vernacular). I am sorry that I did not clarify this before, and my only excuse for such an oversight is that I was engaged in preparing a sauce based on tomatoes (well, mostly tomatoes) for accompanying some pasta al dente for a meal, and I have only now extricated myself from the straps of the cook's apron.

[El Barto]

Fair enough. But Cuth already flipped as poisoner, so by this reasoning, Barto is now a suspect, yes?
The issue of her claimed misrepresentation is interesting, but let me add another point, why would she deliberately lie about how long she has and risk being exposed like this?

I made full disclosure of my use of my ability to start providing information. For once, I am playing seriously. I might even befriend Seymour Skinner. Firstly, my information, and there being at least two known poisoners on the town side, makes the existence of multiple wielders of the roleblock ability also possible.

Also, I had to prevent the misconception that our now dead poisoner had, for some reason, attacked Manasi from arising. That would have also polluted discussion.

See, the last paragraph is my point. It can be any combination, and Barto saying all three would be cleared is just off.

I must admit that it is only a hypothesis. A small network of innocents might be my gift to the town and a not insignificant contribution to our eventual victory. That, or a botherseome accumulation of fæces.

[BSmith]

But why?

At the very least, a townie shares your win condition. A neutral has his or her own win condition, and if the opportunity arises to for them to win by making you lose, they will take it.

I think we're mixed up. I am talking from a hypothetical scum perspective. Not a townie one. As a townie I'd rather leave a neutral survivor alone as well to focus on scumhunting.

[El Barto]

After a perusal of the posts earlier in this phase, I can point out the following exchanges:
Severing Viper made the following post:

Not my claim. Role, not target.

Which then gave rise to the following exchanges:

So... what are you claiming, exactly?

Might as well.

Mont claimed 1x RB. I am 1x RB.

and then

SV, imagine for a second that there are more than one blocker this game.

It would be a strong possibility that Sooh is right and there are multiple copies of each ability distributed among the players.

[El Barto]

Scan for me, and I shall grant you the gift of life, and death to your enemies.

u gonna feed me an antidote or what

Sure, we'll figure it out. You'll have nothing to worry about.

The above is one more exchange I would like to bring together for more lucid minds to analyse. Good day, sirs.

[Manasi]

So we're just gonna let me die?

Okay.

Why does it matter when I said I was going to die?

The PM just said I was poisoned.

NOT

"You have been poisoned and will perish in 72 hours good luck friend godspeed."

It just said I was poisoned.


If anyone has an antidote I would be greatly appreciative, because just letting me die is a horrendous idea.

[El Barto]

Why does it matter when I said I was going to die?

The PM just said I was poisoned.

NOT

"You have been poisoned and will perish in 72 hours good luck friend godspeed."

It just said I was poisoned.

The question which you claim to be unimportant, name ‘when I said I was going to die?’ can be interpreted in two ways. Both are important.

If you mean the moment that you actually made the post in which you claimed you were going to die, then it matters because you are either not paying attention or you spent some time consulting with your mafia partners whether they had the antidote.

If you mean why the moment of your upcoming death matters, then it is relevant because either you are not paying attention (again) or you were deliberately lying. First you were going to die at a specified time. Now you claim it to be an unspecified one. Please make up your mind.

I am off to watch a film.
I said, good day.

[Csargo]

Barto's probably my favorite player of all time. Well, except Sasaki, but that's not even a fair comparison.

[Csargo]

BSmith discussing trivial stuff w novice/Logic, at least give me something to work with geez.

[El Barto]

Errata: In the first line of post #615 it should read ‘namely’, not ‘name’.

Now, good day.

[Logic]

So we're just gonna let me die?

Okay.

Why does it matter when I said I was going to die?

The PM just said I was poisoned.

NOT

"You have been poisoned and will perish in 72 hours good luck friend godspeed."

It just said I was poisoned.


If anyone has an antidote I would be greatly appreciative, because just letting me die is a horrendous idea.

I have a strong suspicion that anyone that could do something about it, would.

I don't think anyone has an antidote just yet, if they exist at all.

[Manasi]

The way I usually play with poisoners is that at the end of the DAY PHASE is when the poison runs out.

Why are you being so rude and dismissive Barto?

[novice]

Player list, for the benefit of my vote counter:

• Logic
• Montmorency alias Monty
• BSmith
• GeneralHankerchief alias gh alias general alias hanky alias generalhandkerchief alias GeneralHandkerchief alias generalhankerchief
• El Barto alias Bart
• Champ
• Jabbz
• Manasi
• SeveringViper alias SV alias Viper alias Severing
• Novice
• Csargo
• Autolycus alias Auto
• choxorn alias Chox
• Cuthillius alias Cuth
• seireikhaan alias Khaan alias khan
• Raith Kemmler alias RK alias Raith alias Kemmler
• Sooh

[novice]

Day one tally with voting history:

Lynch votes
6 votes: seireikhaan (Csargo, GeneralHankerchief, novice, Cuthillius, Choxorn, Raith Kemmler)
4 votes: Montmorency (autolycus, BSmith, Logic, SeveringViper)
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (El Barto, Sooh)
2 votes: choxorn (Manasi, seireikhaan)
1 votes: Manasi (Champ)
1 votes: Severing Viper (Montmorency)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sooh

Raith Kemmler

Raith Kemmler

Novice

GeneralHankerchief

seireikhaan

novice

Novice

Montmorency

Manasi

novice

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Unvote

Unvote

Severing Viper

seireikhaan

Montmorency

seireikhaan

Jabbz

Montmorency

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

choxorn

Montmorency

choxorn

Manasi

seireikhaan

choxorn

choxorn

seireikhaan

Montmorency

seireikhaan

[novice]

Also Jabbz voted Choxorn, which the plugin didn't count because of a missing :

[novice]

• Raith Kemmler alias Raith Kemmle

[novice]

Tally as of post 624:

Lynch votes
4 votes: Montmorency (autolycus, SeveringViper, BSmith, Logic)
2 votes: choxorn (Csargo, novice)
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency)
1 votes: Raith Kemmler (Sooh)
1 votes: Autolycus (GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: Champ (El Barto)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GeneralHankerchief

Raith Kemmler

Montmorency

Montmorency

Montmorency

choxorn

choxorn

Montmorency

Autolycus

Champ

[novice]

Post 326:

SeveringViper: By my count, khaan's played with everybody here (however briefly in some instances) except Champ. We'll throw Manasi and Logic in there too I guess because French Rev was a factional game and doesn't really fit in. Not really enough to get self-conscious about IMO.

novice: Re: your section of me in your longer post above, I was going to argue that your conclusion w/r/t your read of me is correct, but I feel like your reasons for reading me as such are bad, so I'm not sure what to do with you at the moment? but then I realized that most of the bones I had to pick with it were playstyle differences and thus not actual bad arguments.

Champ: As mentioned in a different post, khaan doesn't play games on other sites.

Post 327:

Another thing I want to make note of is in Champ's catchup just a few posts above this one, he jumps from my case on khaan (made earlier this morning US time) to commenting about my "pedantics" line (made last night US time), which strikes me as a bit unnatural way of catching up with the thread.

I will note posts #326 and #327 for tomorrow. :)

What was it you wanted to look at today?

Also, I'm totally voting for Champ tomorrow.

Why?

And I still don't understand why you poisoned Manasi, El Barto. You don't seem to suspect her at all on day one, and if you were definitely voting for Champ, wouldn't he be a better target?

[Sooh]

Raith Kemmler, Autolycus and Champ are some of the people I would love to hear more from.

[Sooh]

Oh yeah, and BSmith.

Somehow I feel like I have gotten more from both Jabbz and Logic with less posts than Champ.

[novice]

Yeah I think your Raith vote is OK. Choxorn, RK and Autolycus are all plausible lynches today. El Barto has a towny tone but I don't understand his thinking, his actions just seem antitown to me.

[Montmorency]

But why?

At the very least, a townie shares your win condition. A neutral has his or her own win condition, and if the opportunity arises to for them to win by making you lose, they will take it.

Townies have to lose, by definition. Survivors don't. Of course it's a risk, but as the most fundamental risk is to the Survivor, live-and-let-live is a valid mutual strategy to pursue. In Futuramafia, the Mafia spent a whole day at the endgame trying to use blatant innuendo to make a claimed Survivor vote the way they wanted, but the Survivor proved obstinate and drove a lynch of scum. So the Mafia NKed him with extreme prejudice, and the Survivor lost. Mafia won next phase. If the Survivor had pursued a better strategy, he would have won with Mafia the same day, most of his VCs fulfilled.

I must amend the above statement. Manasi claimed that her death was due to happen at the end of the current Day phase (D2 in the vernacular) when it is actually due to happen at the end of the coming Night phase (N2 in the vernacular). I am sorry that I did not clarify this before, and my only excuse for such an oversight is that I was engaged in preparing a sauce based on tomatoes (well, mostly tomatoes) for accompanying some pasta al dente for a meal, and I have only now extricated myself from the straps of the cook's apron.

Any spicy meatballs?