"Explosion" in Manchester

[Pannonian]

Why are US sources releasing information ahead of UK police?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Why are US sources releasing information ahead of UK police?

Because they're not held to the same strict ethical and factual standards as our own press?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Why are US sources releasing information ahead of UK police?

Because they won't be sued in English courts for accidentally misreporting something. Plus, they already know the culprit and have decided that the investigation won't be hampered by their reporting.

[Gilrandir]

No one can say that white males in USA are oppressed in any way, but that doesn't mean one idiot won't feel like that.

If an individual is feeling let down by society, blaming "them others" and "going back to the ways of our forefathers" feels logical.

The first passage contradicts the second.

[Pannonian]

The funny thing is, the bulk of Islam already does that, but you don't need the bulk of Islam to find two religious fanatics who are easy to brainwash and persuade them to drive a lorry into a crowd. It's never gonna be perfect. Like that guy who shot all those blacks in a church a year or so ago. No one can say that white males in USA are oppressed in any way, but that doesn't mean one idiot won't feel like that.

The last several attacks actually show that previous security measures did yield some results. Terrorist groups are finding it harder to send people from Muslim countries, they have to rely on unhappy second generation immigrants. It's easier now as European economies are still feeling the recession to a greater or lesser extent. If an individual is feeling let down by society, blaming "them others" and "going back to the ways of our forefathers" feels logical, as evident by the growing popularity of conservative parties across the western world.
They are avoiding airports and using more rudimentary (but arguably not less effective) methods to spread terror.

I do think that Muslim organizations, whether religious or civic, have been under utilized. They could be a great way of passing the message that terrorism is contrary to the Islamic principles. That could go a long way of getting those disgruntled, second generation Muslims to express their rage in a different way, even into something productive. You get extra funding but you have to actively support/organize anti terrorist campaigns on a regular basis.

It boils down to 3 main ways:
1) remove the incentive (unlikely, or at least unlikely to do it in a complete way)
2) cut off their funding
3) limit their recruiting possibilities

Going back to the way of their forefathers wouldn't be too bad. The first generation do what they can to fit in, and allow for the fact that they are guests in an alien country. It's the subsequent generation who were born here who turn to extremism. You can't really blame it on foreign policy making us deserving targets either. His parents were refugees from Qaddafi. After Qaddafi was removed, they returned to Libya, leaving him here. Then he goes and blows up a bunch of kids. He's not exactly underclass either, as he was at Salford University.

[Fragony]

It's an odd thing, maybe we should just not try making any sense out of it

[Pannonian]

Because they won't be sued in English courts for accidentally misreporting something. Plus, they already know the culprit and have decided that the investigation won't be hampered by their reporting.

It's not the press who are being forward with the information.

American officials have been criticised for leaking the identity of the Manchester bomber before British police officially named him.

Thomas Sanderson, director of the transnational threats project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies thinktank in Washington, said the disclosures would be irritating to the British. “Suddenly you’ve got 10,000 reporters descending on the bomber’s house when maybe the police wanted to approach it more subtly,” he said.

Sanderson warned of ill judgment and lack of discipline in the White House. “This is a leaky administration. What does that mean for sharing information we need to going forward? The UK and Israel are probably our two biggest sources of intelligence. Now they’re thinking, ‘Is this going to cause us damage every time we share?’ Then you have to calculate every piece of information.”

[Fragony]

policor first

[Beskar]

Why are US sources releasing information ahead of UK police?

Manchester Attack: Home Secretary Amber Rudd condemns US for leaks of shared British intelligence.
Confidential details appeared in the US media apparently leaked by US intelligence.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7752511.html

[Beskar]

21 50

Final figures seem to be 22 killed and 59 injured. It is a tragedy indeed.

[InsaneApache]

As a Mancunian I feel this keenly......and then something comes along to make me smile...

He's not exactly underclass either, as he was at Salford University.

FFS have you ever been to Salford? Still nice to be cheered up on a day like today.

As for what to do......I found this from a blog site and it seems about the only way I can see for us to tackle this problem squarely.


Change our relationship with Saudi Arabia, the heart of Islamic darkness. It does not permit Christian evangelism on its territory. In contrast, as a civilised country, we permit all religions to be practised, but that does not mean we have to allow the Saudis to fund theirs. Currently there are more Wahhabi Korans in the UK than any other versions because Saudi Arabia provides them free of charge. Wahhabism is a particularly dangerous sect and motivates a disproportionate number of terrorists.

If this is thought likely to affect arms sales to that Kingdom, then perhaps we should form an Organisation of Weapons Exporting Countries to fulfil a similar function to that of OPEC in relation to oil.

It may be necessary, after appropriate research, to prevent other countries from funding mosques and madrassas in Britain. I see no problem with that either. I am sure local Muslim philanthropists will step into the breach.

We should ditch the doctrine of multiculturalism and make it a matter of immigration policy that new arrivals are welcome only on the basis that they agree to integrate into our society and live according to our values. There is no ethical problem, in my opinion, in stating definitively that Shariah Law is incompatible with those values. New immigrants should swear an affidavit on entry to confirm that they understand and accept this.

We should break the news to our Muslim communities that they and their families have come to live in a Christian culture. Most Brits may not be religious now but still our country is one formed by Christian values. Constitutionally, it is actually a kind of mild Christian theocracy as we have no separation of Church and State. The Church of England is Established and twenty-six of its bishops – the Lords Spiritual – are ex officio members of Parliament. In this quirky theocracy, the Theos is Jehovah, not Allah. Daft, in my personal opinion, as I very much believe in the separation of Church and State on the American or French model, but no less true for that.

We should deliver public services only in the official languages of the United Kingdom. When I lived in Poland, Russia and China I could not expect to deal with the authorities in English. They took the perfectly reasonable view that my weakness in their languages was my problem. To the extent I could not cope I found friends, colleagues or paid translators to help me. By dealing with immigrants in their own languages, we have encouraged them NOT to assimilate and have made it unnecessary for them to learn English. It is our fault, not theirs, that so many Muslim mothers live and raise their children dangerously outside our society's mainstream. I am sure most were initially astonished to find that our public sector is prepared to deal with them in their own languages at taxpayers' expense.

We should cut all other services (e.g. translators to sit with children in classes, chaperones to accompany ladies to medical appointments) that discourage integration. Of course we should be tolerant of the needs of learners to bring English speakers along to help them out until they are fluent. I am sure there would also be some doctors prepared to allow male members of Muslim ladies' families to accompany them to consultations. I would not make any doctor do so, however. The ladies in question chose to come to a country where such an approach is alien (and rather insulting to our doctors). No-one forced them to come. They could have stayed in their countries of origin and these issues would never have arisen.

We should provide English classes for refugees. They didn't choose to come and it's only decent to help them out. Economic migrants, like me in Poland, Russia and China, should pay for their own damned language lessons.

Finally we must recruit thousands of members of the police, the Special Branch and MI5 from among our Muslim citizens. We are so often assured that most of them are peace-loving and loyal that I cannot imagine this will be difficult. As a young lawyer in Nottingham I personally administered the Oath of Allegiance to many new Muslim citizens and kept a Koran at hand for the purpose. I am sure many of their families have suitably qualified members now.

It's nice to be back guys.

[Montmorency]

If you seek a policy of aggressive linguistic nationalism, then you must be prepared to endorse direct government funding of language-learning services - indeed well in excess of established funding. Meanwhile, "economic migrants" on limited occupational sojourns or specified contracts typically have little need to learn local languages for official purposes, and outside of some language of commerce and business it would only be detrimental to said commerce to demand it.

[Husar]

Change our relationship with Saudi Arabia, the heart of Islamic darkness.

Why? It's a perfectly non-suspicious country.
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...zgiqcn0qft.jpg

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It's not the press who are being forward with the information.

American officials have been criticised for leaking the identity of the Manchester bomber before British police officially named him.

Oh well, our pols are worse than our newsies. Too many of them need to puff up their own importance by revealing they "know stuff." Are your lot any better?

[InsaneApache]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/op...-35748841.html

[Pannonian]

Oh well, our pols are worse than our newsies. Too many of them need to puff up their own importance by revealing they "know stuff." Are your lot any better?

Probably not. I was puzzled at the time why, when I searched for the killer's name, all the hits came from US news agencies.

[Fragony]

Final figures seem to be 22 killed and 59 injured. It is a tragedy indeed.

A planecrash is a tragedy this was murder.

alas, I thought I didn't care but I was wrong, I could barely buy my cigarettes because the newspapers are there as well. It was pretty noticable that I could hardly speak that picture of that girl kept haunting. Not sure why I post this.

[Fragony]

1-0 for manchester,vs ajax I hope this is comforting somewhat, I would lose on purpose probably it's not insignificant if manchester takes the title

[Greyblades]

Once brexit is put to bed the main election winner will be immigration lmits and muslim integration.

I will eat a taco dipping hat of the Org's choosing if I am wrong in this prediction.



I dont know if that joke is poorly placed, I found out my cousins were unaffected yesterday, so I am feeling rather emotionally drained right now.

[Fragony]

I am fooling myself into thinking I am numb, I could hardly not cry getting cigarrets this morning, newspapers are there with pictures. Got sympathy points, that's nice. I can be horrible without any remorse whatsoever but I couldn't order cigarettes because I couldn't pronounce them. I am kinda glad I'm like that still. What I said earlier in this thread isn't true, I wasn't lying at the time that I couldn't give a fuck but that kinda changed by now

[a completely inoffensive name]

strong and stable

[Greyblades]

Shut up.

[Pannonian]

Is it normal practice in the US to publish evidence at this stage of the investigation?

[Fragony]

Like usual, no lone wolf, several arrests of (alledgedly) involved

[a completely inoffensive name]

Shut up.

Are you saying you feel mad at how ignorant my statement was?

Is it normal practice in the US to publish evidence at this stage of the investigation?

No, usually our media publishes evidence before the investigation.

[Pannonian]

Are you saying you feel mad at how ignorant my statement was?

No, usually our media publishes evidence before the investigation.

On the first statement: how long did it take before posters started making jokes about the Boston bombing?

On the second statement: that's as glib as you get, given that evidence is by their nature revealed by investigation.

[a completely inoffensive name]

On the first statement: how long did it take before posters started making jokes about the Boston bombing?

On the second statement: that's as glib as you get, given that evidence is by their nature revealed by investigation.

A. My post wasn't a joke.
B. You don't get American media.

[Idaho]

... We should ditch the doctrine of multiculturalism and make it a matter of immigration policy that new arrivals are welcome only on the basis that they agree to integrate into our society and live according to our values. There is no ethical problem, in my opinion, in stating definitively that Shariah Law is incompatible with those values. New immigrants should swear an affidavit on entry to confirm that they understand and accept this.

We should break the news to our Muslim communities that they and their families have come to live in a Christian culture. Most Brits may not be religious now but still our country is one formed by Christian values. Constitutionally, it is actually a kind of mild Christian theocracy as we have no separation of Church and State. The Church of England is Established and twenty-six of its bishops – the Lords Spiritual – are ex officio members of Parliament. In this quirky theocracy, the Theos is Jehovah, not Allah. Daft, in my personal opinion, as I very much believe in the separation of Church and State on the American or French model, but no less true for that.

I agree with many of the things you've put. But am sceptical about this first paragraph and openly hostile to the second.

Immigrants would be happy to sign some bland statement. I don't think it would have any function. Have you ever been to the US and signed the form declaring that you aren't a terrorist and that you aren't intending to commit crimes? The vast majority are amused/insulted by having to sign, and I'm guessing the terrorists and criminals just sign.

As for Christianity - **** that. The vast majority of British people are not Christians. The church has been a moral and ethical drag on the nation and doesn't deserve any credit.

[Beskar]

They might have found another bomb at a College in Trafford.

Manchester bombing latest: Army bomb disposal team called to college in Trafford
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ombing-latest/

An army bomb disposal team is attending an incident at a college in Trafford, Greater Manchester Police said
The force said it was too early to say whether the alert is linked to its investigation into the Manchester bomb attack.
It said several roads were closed and officers were "currently assessing the situation".

Bomb unit sent to Manchester college
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40043864

An army bomb disposal unit is at a college in Trafford, Greater Manchester Police says.
It is too early to say whether the alert is linked to its investigation into the Manchester bomb attack, the force said.
Several roads are closed and officers are "currently assessing the situation".
Meanwhile the threat level "will remain at critical and the public should remain vigilant", Theresa May has said.

[Fragony]

That is silly indeed it's useless. In case of the UK there's a top-down problem, police is afraid to do their job because of the policor-culture in the leadership. I don't know it is true but the police was supposedly warned at least 5 times, by the muslim community itself and they never did anything. We aren't ever going to get anywhere with people who are afraid to offend