Second Terrorist Attack on London Bridge

[Beskar]

A van and a knife attack.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-40147014

[Pannonian]

Police at the cordon at the south side of London Bridge says there is more than one fatality

[Strike For The South]

Tiresome

[LeftEyeNine]

Some witnesses claim to have seen people with their throats slit.

[Pannonian]

Sky News have reported a statement from prime minister Theresa May: “The terrible incident in London is being treated as a potential act of terrorism.”

[Pannonian]

Emergency services responding to the incidents at London Bridge and Borough Market have confirmed that they were terrorist attacks.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

There's another in Vauxall, too.

Sounds like at least one guy wearing an explosive belt has been shot according to BBC.

[Pannonian]

Vauxhall incident unconnected with the other two. Six killed in London Bridge and Borough Market attacks. Three suspects killed.

[Brenus]

What I heard on the news.
3 criminals religious fanatics used van to ram the crowd, then attack at random killing and injuring people at random, in the name of their God (what they were shouting) and were killed by armed police after 8 minutes of the rampage.

That is another Cobra meeting, bla bla bla, keep caln, bla bla bla, don't let terrorists win, bla bla bla, and others pre-built sentences which are now platitudes.

[Fragony]

How very nice

edit, this was much worse than I thought

[Elmetiacos]

What I heard on the news.
3 criminals religious fanatics used van to ram the crowd, then attack at random killing and injuring people at random, in the name of their God (what they were shouting) and were killed by armed police after 8 minutes of the rampage.

That is another Cobra meeting, bla bla bla, keep caln, bla bla bla, don't let terrorists win, bla bla bla, and others pre-built sentences which are now platitudes.

...and politicians announce simultaneously that it won't disrupt the election campaign while allowing it to disrupt the election campaign. This will encourage copycat attacks, seeding in the minds of nutters the possibility that enough killing might bring down the system somehow. The election shouldn't even be mentioned: any journo that brings it up should be told, "Next question" before being taken aside by the police afterwards and asked if they are trying to encourage terrorism so they can report on it.

[Pannonian]

Yup, at least one of the terrorists was a Muslim.

A neighbour, who asked not to be named, described the man who lived in a flat at the centre of the raid as a slim, bearded man in his mid-20s, married with a young child, no older than two. He is believed to be of Pakistani origin.

She told the Guardian she had recognised her neighbour as the man from a picture that circulated last night of one of the attackers lying on the ground in Borough Market after he had been shot by armed police.

Her suspicion appeared to be confirmed when she woke on Sunday morning to see police officers photographing his red Peugeot car.

“I realised it was him,” she said. “It is shocking. Everybody here has children and jobs. We never thought anyone here would have the type of mentality to do something like that. I used to see them every night, He had a wife and child and would drop them off home and would look for a parking spot.

“He never used to communicate with the women here. I just knew him as the guy that always came at a certain time and would drop his wife and kid off right close to the main door and then go.

“He never used to park where he should park. He never really looked at us and if he did he didn’t look happy as if he had a why are women out on the street at this time of the night type of look on his face.” She said he wore traditional Islamic robes and his wife wore a full-face veil.

“He used to have the beard, the long dress that men wear, sometimes white, sometimes dark-coloured,” she said.

[Fragony]

No shit Sherlock. I hopel everybody keeps their cools and don't start attacking muslims who have nothing to do with this shit. Some probably will

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Some witnesses claim to have seen people with their throats slit.

Good to see you back LEN, sad it was for this.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Kudos to the police there. First report to takedown in under 9 minutes.

How many of you lot live in London itself? Where you nearby?

[LeftEyeNine]

Good to see you back LEN, sad it was for this.

What global agenda do we have left other than boundless Islamist terrorism?

[Pannonian]

Kudos to the police there. First report to takedown in under 9 minutes.

How many of you lot live in London itself? Where you nearby?

I live within a few miles of Barking, where at least one of the suspects was from. Like I said in your thread, it's been a while since I was last near London Bridge.

[Brenus]

My wife is watching the concert when I am typing this text...
She is still under the shock...
She can't come to the term that some just hate us... Just for who we are...

[Fragony]

England sure had to swallow a lot lately. And then you hear stupid things like 'you are more likely to die in traffic'. Not that it isn't true but accidents just happen it's not intentionally hurting people

[Greyblades]

When you keep doing what you always have done, you will get what you always have got.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

When you keep doing what you always have done, you will get what you always have got.

This is a truth, 'blades, but as has been discussed divers times before, truly substantive changes from the Western perspective would involve cultural/societal adjustments that would undercut OUR identity and individual freedoms. Down that road lies the police state -- security but at a steep price in liberty. Our leaders, and many of our fellow citizens, are hoping the real change will come from Islam -- that they will inculcate a religious culture that does not reward violent extremism and that their fringe 1% will become more akin to the bulk of Christianity's fringe 1% and adopt a pacifistic ideal.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

My wife is watching the concert when I am typing this text...
She is still under the shock...
She can't come to the term that some just hate us... Just for who we are...

My wife has reacted somewhat the same way -- especially given that our vacation later this summer includes a few days at a hotel near Tower bridge. I found myself in in inexplicable bout of rage yesterday evening as well....not really sure what prompted it, but had to do about 4 mysteries of the rosary until I got myself back on an even keel.

I suspect that the motivation is not so much who we are (though that is how the violence is expressed) so much as for how we have (in their minds) wronged them. These attacks are, for the suicide attackers, a way to assert their own identity. Thus, the underemployed fellow, living in a culture that does not always cohere to the values of his parent culture feels marginalized. He can either assume he is unlucky, or unable, or that "the man" is holding him down unfairly. This segues, of course, to that "the Crusaders have always attacked us, belittled us, and wronged us because of our faith" story -- and people do hold such grudges whether reasonable or not, I am blamed by some of my fellow citizens for the 400 years of slavery perpetrated against their great grandsires; Zionists still view themselves as the underdogs forced away from their rightful homeland by the Arabs (such identity arguments set aside realities of time or event that don't support the narrative). Thus you have the disgruntled young man, who rather than lashing out in frustration can now scream "this is my identity and I MATTER" through violence in service of 'the cause.'

Saddening...

[Fragony]

@SF, maybe you are looking too much into what makes sense to you and making a mistake in the process doing so, maybe it's as simple as that these characters are simply religious fanatics who hate us. As simple as that perhaps? I don't think you are doing anyone a service trying to make sense out of it, it's a useless courtisy to try to understand it

[Pannonian]

This is a truth, 'blades, but as has been discussed divers times before, truly substantive changes from the Western perspective would involve cultural/societal adjustments that would undercut OUR identity and individual freedoms. Down that road lies the police state -- security but at a steep price in liberty. Our leaders, and many of our fellow citizens, are hoping the real change will come from Islam -- that they will inculcate a religious culture that does not reward violent extremism and that their fringe 1% will become more akin to the bulk of Christianity's fringe 1% and adopt a pacifistic ideal.

Reports so far indicate that the police did get enough advance warning about the attacks. The problem is distinguishing signal from noise.

[Fragony]

Reports so far indicate that the police did get enough advance warning about the attacks. The problem is distinguishing signal from noise.

Is it possible to act in advance, political-correctness will always win

[Pannonian]

Is it possible to act in advance, political-correctness will always win

It's not a matter of PC. It's a matter of knowing what information is useful and relevant, and which is not. One of the neighbours have now said that he'd had a conversation with one of the attackers about his (the neighbour's) van, what it was like, etc. It struck him as a little odd at the time, but not in any particular way. It's only in hindsight that he understood what the conversation was about. We have enough data. We need better expertise in profiling what data is useful and what is not.

[Fragony]

It's not a matter of PC. It's a matter of knowing what information is useful and relevant, and which is not. One of the neighbours have now said that he'd had a conversation with one of the attackers about his (the neighbour's) van, what it was like, etc. It struck him as a little odd at the time, but not in any particular way. It's only in hindsight that he understood what the conversation was about. We have enough data. We need better expertise in profiling what data is useful and what is not.

That sounds really sound but when will political correction stop making that really hard @last line

[Pannonian]

That sounds really sound but when will political correction stop making that really hard @last line

Do you have any evidence that PC attitudes stopped police from detecting these attacks? If not, then note that there is evidence that the police are overloaded with information and couldn't filter them. Note that I've gone off about Britain's faultists ignoring evidence in favour of their own explanation which doesn't need evidence. I'll refer the same arguments to you if that's what your anti-PC argument is about.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Reports so far indicate that the police did get enough advance warning about the attacks. The problem is distinguishing signal from noise.

My comment was on a more strategic level. Your response is on the tactical (though I understand you to be correct. Moreover, their response time during was excellent).

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It's not a matter of PC. It's a matter of knowing what information is useful and relevant, and which is not. One of the neighbours have now said that he'd had a conversation with one of the attackers about his (the neighbour's) van, what it was like, etc. It struck him as a little odd at the time, but not in any particular way. It's only in hindsight that he understood what the conversation was about. We have enough data. We need better expertise in profiling what data is useful and what is not.

Good post. Always an issue with this, especially since the other side is well aware that extra noise adds to the confusion.