Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Montmorency]

If Csargo was my lover and my whole team had died - did we elope?

Are we living happily ever after in Szeged?

[reinoe]

@Montmorency

Not the greatest team performance but easily the best solo hero for a scum I've ever seen. Congratulations. I don't know I I'd have ever suspected you if I were in the game anyway. Why did you kill me?

[Montmorency]

@Montmorency

Not the greatest team performance but easily the best solo hero for a scum I've ever seen. Congratulations. I don't know I I'd have ever suspected you if I were in the game anyway. Why did you kill me?

On N3 the choices were DP-Slaan-Pizza, but the specter of a doctor, and not wanting to kill predictably straight down the Lock-Town list, led me to choose you as a kind of trick shoot.

Probably not the best option. But I made loads of blunders over the course of the game, and I somehow made it through. I guess Bobby Fischer was wrong when he said, "All that matters on the chessboard is good moves."

[Sooh]

Maybe i just dont quite clearly understand this lover mechanics as ive not witnessed one before where one is scum and one not.

I mean, Csargo would have to die for town to win, if that's what you mean.


And Csargo, I understood quite early on that you didn't know the distinction between lovers/masons/neighbors. Masons are the only ones guaranteed to have the same alignment. Otherwise the pairings may or may not be mixed alignment wise.

[Sooh]

If Csargo was my lover and my whole team had died - did we elope?

Are we living happily ever after in Szeged?

If you wish, but the mafia-chessteam delegation won the tournament. Csargo lost his game. He can still live happily ever after with you though.

[Sooh]

stupid browser.

[Kagemusha]

But I made loads of blunders over the course of the game, and I somehow made it through. I guess Bobby Fischer was wrong when he said, "All that matters on the chessboard is good moves."

A good move in chess might not be good move in mafia. You sold yourself to Csargo, Pizza and the rest of the town. Rest of the moves were not that important. No matter how i look at it. Im amazed how you pulled this through and seemingly with ease.

[Logic]

I mean, Csargo would have to die for town to win, if that's what you mean.


And Csargo, I understood quite early on that you didn't know the distinction between lovers/masons/neighbors. Masons are the only ones guaranteed to have the same alignment. Otherwise the pairings may or may not be mixed alignment wise.

I still don't know what neighbors are.

I've heard of lovers as a scum/villager pairing, but never seen one before.

[Montmorency]

A good move in chess might not be good move in mafia. You sold yourself to Csargo, Pizza and the rest of the town. Rest of the moves were not that important. No matter how i look at it. Im amazed how you pulled this through and seemingly with ease.

@Askthepizzaguy

I think the lesson of this game, and XCOM, and FrenchRev is that town rolling scum in the beginning of the game is quite vulnerable to infiltration by lone wolves in the "sweet spot" of middling collective rankings on alignment or POE.

If Csargo's life hadn't been linked to my own, our team could have expected to win the game from the end of D1, despite Logic's lynch, and despite Zack and GH being doomed in the POE - all because I was very townie to Pizza, but not in the Lock tier.

[Winston Hughes]

I knew it was Monty.

[Montmorency]

I knew it was Monty.

Can we get a sample from the Dead Chat?

[Winston Hughes]

No, hang on, that's a total lie.

I had no idea.

Magnificent play, man.

[Winston Hughes]

Honestly, I went through reinoe, Slaan, Fred and just about everyone else, up to and including a late tinfoil on pizza.

[Montmorency]

#Winstontoostrong

[Sooh]

No, hang on, that's a total lie.

I had no idea.

Magnificent play, man.

I was just going to say :P

[Sooh]

zack/pizza/gh

Plus monty if there's four.

I will say that this was a stellar post though.

Made me giggle at the time, and I even put the post number in my spreadsheet to remember it for postgame.

[Winston Hughes]

My drunk reads are legendary.

In this case, though, the list was neither honest nor serious.

I was just being provocative for the lulz.

[Montmorency]

I will say that this was a stellar post though.

Made me giggle at the time, and I even put the post number in my spreadsheet to remember it for postgame.

I saved a lot of good posts by people in the team-chat, and Winston was relentless D1:

Damn Winston is elite...he solved the game and he could advance the scenario later

god, if only winston knew how right he was right now

Either that, or he and Zack are scumbuddies (shades of Monty+pizza in Futuramafia?)
I'm wary of being affected by pizza's mystical bit, but reading Logic's ISO suggests an underlying sense of control that wasn't there in previous games.

Feels like Fredwood's playing 72/24, while GH is looking to eod.

[Choxorn]

Honestly, I went through reinoe, Slaan, Fred and just about everyone else, up to and including a late tinfoil on pizza.

Same here. At the very end I was finding it suspicious as hell that Pizza was somehow still alive.

[Winston Hughes]

pizza, that was like hunting with Renata.

In case you thought this was just post-flip hyperbole, pizza, it wasn't.

I'm not sure even you realise how big a compliment that is.

Winning or losing, doesn't really matter. It's all about the buzz of interaction.

I know that you, like Renata, have hit that high of pure, scum-shredding mindmeld with plenty of others over the years.

But it's still an exquisitely rare feeling for me.

Given our long and storied history playing this game together, that D1 was special for me.

[Winston Hughes]

p.s. I'm so fucking glad it was you rather than me who had to play that out.

[Csargo]

I mean, Csargo would have to die for town to win, if that's what you mean.


And Csargo, I understood quite early on that you didn't know the distinction between lovers/masons/neighbors. Masons are the only ones guaranteed to have the same alignment. Otherwise the pairings may or may not be mixed alignment wise.

Yeah, that really messed me up, not knowing there was a distinction between them, I would have played it differently if I realized earlier. I don't think I would have ever tried to lynch Monty, but I wouldn't have tried to survive as much as I did. Hindsight.

[Sooh]

Yeah, that really messed me up, not knowing there was a distinction between them, I would have played it differently if I realized earlier. I don't think I would have ever tried to lynch Monty, but I wouldn't have tried to survive as much as I did. Hindsight.

My bad. I assumed people here knew what lovers were, or that you would try to look it up when you saw it wasn't masons. I can try to add a link to an explanation next time I use roles that I'm not sure have been used here before, in the interest of fairness.

[Sooh]

Just something so simple as rand has so much to say for a game. Had Slaan or Pizza been randed into the lover pair instead, the game might have been very very different. It certainly would have made things trickier for Monty :)

[Winston Hughes]

I know there were bad vibes around some points in this game, but honestly I think that was just because the standard was so high.

Between the usual suspects bringing their a-games, the org legends rolling back the years, and the newcomers showing exceptional game, this was an intense environment from start to finish.

[Dp101]

I will say that this was a stellar post though.

Made me giggle at the time, and I even put the post number in my spreadsheet to remember it for postgame.

Imagine if that actually was the team. Trying to get any of them lynched would have been impossible.

[Csargo]

My bad. I assumed people here knew what lovers were, or that you would try to look it up when you saw it wasn't masons. I can try to add a link to an explanation next time I use roles that I'm not sure have been used here before, in the interest of fairness.

I shouldn't have just assumed. Should have looked it up. Now I know for the future.

[Montmorency]

I shouldn't have just assumed. Should have looked it up. Now I know for the future.

And knowing is half the battle. Just don't forget to make the same mistake twice.

Always make the same mistake twice.

[Winston Hughes]

Imagine if that actually was the team. Trying to get any of them lynched would have been impossible.

Indeed.

By far the biggest obstacle to their powerwolfing here was pizza's control of the thread.

Take him out of the equation and, for all the good reads, town lacks a coherent voice.

Put him on the other side, and it's a cakewalk for scum.

[Montmorency]

Just something so simple as rand has so much to say for a game. Had Slaan or Pizza been randed into the lover pair instead, the game might have been very very different. It certainly would have made things trickier for Monty :)

I think this might be more like a significant structural advantage, that if the whole team save one is eliminated early, they will have an easier time of surviving to the endgame than in normal circumstances, so long as they stick to the middle of the pack.

This is what happened in FrenchRev and XCOM as well. The "sweet spot". In FrenchRev admittedly it was multidimensional given the multiball setup, where Choxorn turned out both universally town/null-read, and perceived as much less of a factional threat by people in the other 3 (4 including Mafia, but that was just him anyway) factions. But the principle remains.

So, why did town roll in Representative Democracy and Swords & Sorcery?


In RepDem, I still struggle to interpret the effects of the unique voting structure. But it was a scum-town-scum-town lynch, at which point Zack resigned because someone false-peeked him. However, had that not happened, Zack had a decent shot of making it to endgame, being nullish, if on the scummy side, in terms of aggregate reads.


In Swords & Sorcery, massive PR proliferation, fierce networking, townie mindmelds, and the destruction of half the Mafia team in the first round isolated remaining scum immediately, next of whom was lynched D2. D3, the SK was lynched. D4, final-scum Snerk used his power to end the day prematurely, then resigned/suicided, because he just couldn't escape Town's wrath.

In this victory, the final scum, Snerk, was universally POEd, so he just didn't have much chance from D2. And if it were up to me, the game would have been much closer. I wanted to lynch atheotes instead of Visor, the second scum, and I wanted to lynch Csargo instead of Snerk. So in lynches rather than in role-action and networking, I was more of a hindrance. Thinking of everything wrong townies can get you even with a bad early game by the solo-scum, we can understand why wrong townies with a good early game by solo-scum can determine the game course, even 4, 5, 6, lynches out.


Lesson is I think, lock it in D1 and ride the wave all the way to LYLO for Mafia; pick who dies in your team on that basis, if it comes down to that. For Town I think the policy lynch for 'scum rekt' scenarios should be, always start from the middle of the pack. AND DON'T LOCK MORE THAN 3 PLAYERS AT A TIME.

This deserves discussion. Speaking of which, where are my scomies at?
@Zack @GeneralHankerchief