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  1. #91
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by KhaderKhan
    BTW: Does anyone why I can't build a 2nd Grand Mosque and is there a way around it?
    Welcome You can only build one (think of a cathedral same rule applies) and I dont believe there is any way around it.
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  2. #92
    German Enthusiast Member Alexanderofmacedon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    You got MTW SFTS?


  3. #93

    Default Re: Turks

    [/QUOTE]You can only build one (think of a cathedral same rule applies) and I dont believe there is any way around it.[/QUOTE]

    Hi, solve the problem and here's how. Once you have built a Fortress in one province and you have another Fortress in another province then you can [ make sure you give both build orders simultaneously] build a Grand Mosque/Cathedral in both provinces.

    In fact I suspect you can build a whole series of Grand Mosques/Cathedrals in the provinces that have a Fortress. Nice?

  4. #94

    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexanderofmacedon
    You got MTW SFTS?
    SFTS?

    JHI? I based my mod on the Pilum-throwing Roman legionaries.

    (If used correctively this modified version of JHI should be capable of taking anyone on, my only fear is that I might have made them too good but I can't know this for certain untill I played a few battles with them)

  5. #95

    Default Re: Turks

    I thought I might as well tell you about my latest campaigns with the Turks.
    Started in the "Late" period, Hard and the GA. (Couldn't be bothered with doing a campaign that was over 200+ turns) In my first move took I out the Trapeztines.

    Casualty to them: 100%

    Did the same thing thing to the Rebels in Anatolia and Lesser Armenia in turn two, built up my economy and troops for my upcoming war with the Byzantines in the year 1336 and made alliances with everyone except the Byzantines.

    The Byzantines however attacked me two years before I was going to attack them. Lucky for me my troop number were a reasonable size whilst theirs (with the exception of those based in Nicaea and Bulgaria) was pitifully small and they didn't help their cause by bribing a rebelling GH army which brought the GH into the war at the same time as me.

    In one move I captured Constantinople without any struggle as the Byzantines vacated what troops they had to Greece to regroup, their army in Nicaea I annihilated (I never ceased to be amazed on how quickly my Turcoman horses seem to route the Byzantine Infantry, my SoP and SI finished their Kataphracts off whilst my Turcoman foot fought and won against their Urban militia) and sat down to besiege their citadel.

    By this time GH had captured Bulgaria and I fought the Byzantine army once again as they risked an all or nothing attack on my troops in Constantinople, I won by destroying and capturing their entire army (though it did riled me that I lost a 100 men in the process of doing so) and unfortunatly got their king killed. I then marched on to Greece whilst leaving a small garrison at Constantinople and destroyed the rebel army.

    (I should also add that my Hungarian allie came in around at the same time and captured Serbia)

    After a few turns of re-building my army, navy and economy I began amassing troops on my frontier with Egypt as they were doing the same. Using mercenaries I brought my troop level to a 1000+. The following turn my spies reported to me that the Egyptians were planning on attacking me the next turn so I pre-emptively sunk all their ships from Venice to Cairo and invaded their provinces.

    All my encounters with them, except the initials ones where I had to face a series of Jihads against me, I won even though they outnumbered me 2 to 1 and I did with ease. I suspect this mostly happen because I had better quality troops (and all my units were by now V3/4 as result of my continual wars against rebels and my encounters with the Byzantines) and I had in comparison to their 1/2 star Generals I had on average 5 star Generals (the lowest being 4 and the highest being 6 or 7).

    Within a few turns I had captured the entire ME and had the sultan completly isolated and trapped in Arabia. I received a 30000 florins for ransom soon after that. The Egyptians offered ceasefire, I accepted, and just to complete my takeover I'll bribe the rebels in Sinai to reduce my border with Egypt from 2 to 1.

    Whilst this was happening the muslim peasants (mass conversions to Islam as a result of my army of Imams) of Bulgaria were revolting and overthrew the GH. I sent in a mercenary army and pacified the province.

    For the next few turns I'll be re-building my navy and economy for my up-coming with the GH and by then my JI and JHI should be coming off the production line and kick the GH out of Khazar, Crimea and Kiev turning the black sea into a Turkish lake in the process...

    Hope I didn't bore anyone with this long post.

  6. #96

    Question Re: Turks

    Unfortunatly my game with the Turks ended. One minute am on the verge of capturing N. Africa then next...the game crashes

    Before I go I like to ask 2 questions.

    1) What, in your opinion, is the most efficent (ideally inflicting 100% damage whilst suffering minimal casualties) way to use JHI? I find using them in a "Pin 'N' Flank" tactic (aka "Sword and Shield" & "Hammer and Anvil") too costly.

    2) Is the MTW:Viking Invasion an extension of the MTW (like the Mongol Invasion pact in Shogun) in the sense that is the same game/setting (with the same factions like the Egyptians, Turks, etc) but with an additional earlier period (AD600?) or is it a completly seperate game in a different setting like RTW: BI?

  7. #97
    Member Member MuseRulez's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by KhaderKhan
    1) What, in your opinion, is the most efficent (ideally inflicting 100% damage whilst suffering minimal casualties) way to use JHI? I find using them in a "Pin 'N' Flank" tactic (aka "Sword and Shield" & "Hammer and Anvil") too costly.
    Well, they can kill almost everything effectively as long you don't rush'em in head on. The only thing to prevent casualties is: 1.Upgrading armour and weapons. 2. Make sure they outnumber the enemy unit, try some HA (requirse some practice)

    Quote Originally Posted by KhaderKhan
    2) Is the MTW:Viking Invasion an extension of the MTW (like the Mongol Invasion pact in Shogun) in the sense that is the same game/setting (with the same factions like the Egyptians, Turks, etc) but with an additional earlier period (AD600?) or is it a completly seperate game in a different setting like RTW: BI?
    VI enhances the Early/High/Late campaigns with new playable factions and units AND ads a completely new campaign Vikings
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  8. #98

    Default Re: Turks

    Thanks...

  9. #99
    The Sword from Anatolia Member Seyfullah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Is it possible for factions with mounted archers to win battles relying almost completely on them? For example, Turcoman Horse or Horse Archers for Turks? If it was possible then I can't imagine the results.
    "For I wish my torch was not with me
    because of its light I can now see
    what is around me and tremble"


    -from a poem I wrote

  10. #100
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Seyfullah
    Is it possible for factions with mounted archers to win battles relying almost completely on them? For example, Turcoman Horse or Horse Archers for Turks? If it was possible then I can't imagine the results.
    Theoretically it is possible, but a combined arms approach is often preferable. You will get better results if you have at least a few units of heavy cavalry nearby to quickly finish off weakened enemy units. This way your archers spend less time and arrows whittling them down and can move quicker to the next target.
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  11. #101
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    My acronym for Early Turk Army is THA. Up to half my army may be composed of them. You'll have to use morale rules for greatest effect though and NO FRONTAL CHARGE!


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  12. #102
    The Sword from Anatolia Member Seyfullah's Avatar
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    Post Re: Turks

    So Ludens, the cavalry should not be used as the main bulk of an army aided by infantry and ranged units? I don't know if you watched Kingdom of Heaven but that cavalry scene in front of Kerak was pretty impressive. I wish there was a Crescent deployment in MTW. It would be very easy to lure the enemy and surround and crush them.
    "For I wish my torch was not with me
    because of its light I can now see
    what is around me and tremble"


    -from a poem I wrote

  13. #103
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Seyfullah
    So Ludens, the cavalry should not be used as the main bulk of an army aided by infantry and ranged units?
    I did not say that. My point was that a horse-archer army lacked shock power to finish off units, so the addition of some heavy cavalry would strenghten it. Horse archers are one of the most powerful units in the TW series if used correctly, but the game is balanced so that singe unit-type armies tend to be less effective than more varied armies. That said, the Turks have a very good cavalry roster, so an all-cavalry army (as opposed to an all horse-acher army) could be very effective for them.
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  14. #104

    Default Re: Turks

    mtw-2 ile ilgili bir çok güzel fikrim var...
    bunları ingilizceye çevirip bu sitede yayınlayacak birini arıyorum

  15. #105
    The Sword from Anatolia Member Seyfullah's Avatar
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    Post Re: Turks

    ok Ludens thanks. I will try to see how an all cavalry fares against the Crusaders. I just started this year, so i m kinda new. I need to get my hands on any tactic i can to have a great gameplay experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi
    mtw-2 ile ilgili bir çok güzel fikrim var...
    bunları ingilizceye çevirip bu sitede yayınlayacak birini arıyorum
    Bozkir Sovalyesi bana soyle sana yardimci olurum.
    "For I wish my torch was not with me
    because of its light I can now see
    what is around me and tremble"


    -from a poem I wrote

  16. #106

    Default Re: Turks

    çok uzun bir şey galiba kardeşim.
    gören kaçıyor..

    istersen maille yollarım.

  17. #107
    Member Member Geezer57's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Seyfullah
    Is it possible for factions with mounted archers to win battles relying almost completely on them? For example, Turcoman Horse or Horse Archers for Turks? If it was possible then I can't imagine the results.
    Yes, I do it for fun often in my current Seljuk (Turkish) campaign in BKB. Here's a link to a post-battle screenshot from my defense of Saxony with 1740 men against the Khazar Khaganate with 3900 men:

    https://img146.imageshack.us/img146/...onypostbat.jpg

    The only troops that engaged the enemy in melee were five Seljuk Horse Archers (much like Spanish Jinettes for melee, but with a long-range bow and better morale). The casualty figures weren't particularly large, but very one-sided, and the KK chose to withdraw after having their collective noses bloodied.

    From the battle log:

    Battle Type:: CAMPAIGN
    Date:: 01/15/06
    Time:: 14:18:49
    Host:: N/A
    Attackers:: Khazar Khaganate
    Defenders:: The Seljuks
    Victory for:: DEFENDERS
    Game Time:: 12 mins 29 secs
    Battle Name:: Saxony
    Map Name:: FlatInland17
    Is Custom Map:: NO
    Attackers' Florins:: 0
    Defenders' Florins:: 0
    Season:: Summer
    Difficulty:: Expert
    Time Limit:: 90 mins
    Game Style:: Last Man Standing
    Unit Size:: 60
    Limited Ammo:: on
    Fatigue:: on
    Morale:: on
    Restricted Camera:: on
    Battle Terminated How?:: BATTLE FOUGHT TO CLOSE


    Player Name:: The Seljuks
    -------------------------
    Player Type:: HUMAN
    Stance:: Defender
    Florins Allocated:: 0
    Florins Spent:: 0
    Number of Units:: 29
    Total Troop Count:: 1740
    Total Men Killed:: 37
    Total Men Captured:: 0
    Total Men Routed:: 0
    Total Enemy Killed:: 473
    Total Enemy Captured:: 512

    Player Name:: Khazar Khaganate
    ------------------------------
    Player Type:: CPU
    Stance:: Attacker
    Florins Allocated:: 0
    Florins Spent:: 0
    Number of Units:: 65
    Total Troop Count:: 3900
    Total Men Killed:: 475
    Total Men Captured:: 512
    Total Men Routed:: 1966
    Total Enemy Killed:: 37
    Total Enemy Captured:: 0
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  18. #108
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer57
    Yes, I do it for fun often in my current Seljuk (Turkish) campaign in BKB. Here's a link to a post-battle screenshot from my defense of Saxony with 1740 men against the Khazar Khaganate with 3900 men:

    https://img146.imageshack.us/img146/...onypostbat.jpg

    The only troops that engaged the enemy in melee were five Seljuk Horse Archers (much like Spanish Jinettes for melee, but with a long-range bow and better morale). The casualty figures weren't particularly large, but very one-sided, and the KK chose to withdraw after having their collective noses bloodied.
    The problem is that the Turks in unmodded M:TW do not have a horse archer that is both strong and fast. Turcoman horse are fast, but have a low morale and poor melee capabilities. Vanilla horse archers are even worse. If you would try to replay this battle with either of those, it would have went rather less well, unless they were properly supported by good melee cavalry.

    On the other hand, stronger horse archers (Boyars, Steppe Heavies, perhaps Szekely) can be deadly even when unsupported, but these are not available to the Turks, with the exception of Steppe Heavies once they conquer a steppe province. They also get Sipahi of the Porte in late.
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  19. #109

    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens
    On the other hand, stronger horse archers (Boyars, Steppe Heavies, perhaps Szekely) can be deadly even when unsupported, but these are not available to the Turks, with the exception of Steppe Heavies once they conquer a steppe province. They also get Sipahi of the Porte in late.
    I think, that this isn`t a big problem, cos in the beginning, Turks fights against Egiptians or Bizantines, and against them, turcomans are the best choice.
    Historicaly, turks invaded europe relatively late, when more advanced types of units were available.
    But if someone wants to have a 100% cavalry army and is dreaming of beat every army...well, then must at least mix them whit some heavy hitters like Ghulam cavalry or Chorezmian Cavalry. Light for flanking and firesupport, and for luring infantry into traps made by heavy hitters.

    Anyone tried breaking enemy line with few units of heavy cavalry on one point? If the target unit breaks, others start to wavering, and under bowfire they tend to flee very quickly.

    Once they start running, they are on the mercy of the light cav.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war"

  20. #110
    The Sword from Anatolia Member Seyfullah's Avatar
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    Post Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodai
    Anyone tried breaking enemy line with few units of heavy cavalry on one point? If the target unit breaks, others start to wavering, and under bowfire they tend to flee very quickly.

    Once they start running, they are on the mercy of the light cav.
    Sounds like fun, I ll probably try it sometime.
    "For I wish my torch was not with me
    because of its light I can now see
    what is around me and tremble"


    -from a poem I wrote

  21. #111
    Member Member John XVI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    I started as the Turks in Early,prepared for a war against the Byzantines but the CARNATION INSTANT MILK Egyptians attacked from behind. After obliterating them I had a long and bloody war with the Byzantines. After conquering Constatinopole(all built up,so I decided that I'd establish the JHI training there),a civil war broke out and Italians come and conquer Trebizond with a crusade(didn't want to defend it,it's a crap province anyway),plus the Egyptians come with 1500 men in arabia and antioch. To my surprise The Byzantine emperor wanted peace with me at my weakest moment and I accepted it. Then I flushed the traitors and the Egyptians out of my provinces and then decided to get JHI training into progress. After getting 8 units of JHI I decided to invade Trebizond. The italians had 400 men,all royal knights(heirs and king) vs. my 2000 men,all anti-horse(spears,x-bows and polearms). I'm thinking of invading the Byzantines soon,as they are at their weakest right now. I wasn't into HA at all until I started playing with the Turks. Now I realize their potential as harassment troops,if used in small quantities.
    Last edited by Kekvit Irae; 08-23-2006 at 23:32.

  22. #112

    Default Re: Turks

    Hmm, you have vanilla MTW?

    Cos having VI it is impossible to have JHI in early. And so, the light cav tactics must be perfected, cos turcomans(being available pretty soon) is very useful unit. I usualy have about 50% or more shooting cavalry(turkomans preferably, but HA earlier). Additionaly, this unit remains main light cav unit available to turkish armies for the rest of the game.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war"

  23. #113
    Member Member John XVI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodai
    Hmm, you have vanilla MTW?

    Cos having VI it is impossible to have JHI in early. And so, the light cav tactics must be perfected, cos turcomans(being available pretty soon) is very useful unit. I usualy have about 50% or more shooting cavalry(turkomans preferably, but HA earlier). Additionaly, this unit remains main light cav unit available to turkish armies for the rest of the game.
    I have plain,vanilla MTW. It's not "early age" anymore,the year is 1256,but I got the JHI as fast I could. They cost quite much,but they are more than worth their price. When playing the Turks,turcoman horse is quite good,as it can do well both in desert and in lush terrain. And fast cavalry in general has been a huge help for me,as I like to flank and hit the enemy in the rear. The JHI are very good for flanking,too.

  24. #114

    Default Re: Turks

    A lot of people seem to be advocating the use of Ghulam cavalry/Kwhrazmium. In fact these both suck big time compared to the easily obtained Armenian Heavy cavalry. built in Armenia with a master horse breeder they have a massive +2 valour. They will beat anything in early (except kats with master horse in Constantinople or Pronoi Allagion from Nicaea) and will beat chivalric knights as well!. A key factor to non knight cavalry is the +1 valour for the master horse breeder. Any cavalry that takes less than master horse breeder gets +1 valour very easily.

  25. #115
    Incorruptible Forest Manager Member Tristuskhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turks

    Rhaaa, soon we'll all play more turkish on MTW II. I miss them (MTW has always been disruptive for my computer, I stopped playing it when RTW came out). Return of the Yeni Seri!
    "Les Cons ça ose tout, c'est même à ça qu'on les reconnait"

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  26. #116

    Default Re: Turks

    I always preferred Armenians over Khwarz's, but I do like Ghulam cavarly, they are good solid heavy cavalry that are fine in pretty much all terrain similar to Armenians. I'm unsure of the stats exactly, but I have a sneaking suspicion that in a couple of areas, Ghulam cavalry are superior.

    If anybody has the stats i'd like to see them, so to properly compare the wide variety of cavalry the Turks have.

  27. #117

    Default Re: Turks

    I always preferred Armenians over Khwarz's, but I do like Ghulam cavarly, they are good solid heavy cavalry that are fine in pretty much all terrain similar to Armenians. I'm unsure of the stats exactly, but I have a sneaking suspicion that in a couple of areas, Ghulam cavalry are superior.

    If anybody has the stats i'd like to see them, so to properly compare the wide variety of cavalry the Turks have.

  28. #118
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by _Aetius_
    I always preferred Armenians over Khwarz's, but I do like Ghulam cavarly, they are good solid heavy cavalry that are fine in pretty much all terrain similar to Armenians. I'm unsure of the stats exactly, but I have a sneaking suspicion that in a couple of areas, Ghulam cavalry are superior.

    If anybody has the stats i'd like to see them, so to properly compare the wide variety of cavalry the Turks have.
    Ghulam cavalry: ........... charge 6 attack 3 defence 3 armour 4 speed 9, 20, 22 morale 4 cost 275 support 70
    Armenian heavy cavalry: charge 8 attack 3 defence 3 armour 4 speed 9, 20, 22 morale 4 cost 300 support 60
    Khwarazmian cavalry: ... charge 6 attack 3 defence 5 armour 7 speed 9, 20, 22 morale 4 cost 375 support 70
    Ottoman Sipahi: .......... charge 4 attack 2 defence 3 armour 4 speed 9, 20, 22 morale 2 cost 200 support 65

    Horse archers: ......... charge 2 attack -1 defence 0 armour 2 speed 9, 24, 26 morale –1 cost 250 support 40
    Turcoman horsemen: .. charge 2 attack 1 defence 0 armour 2 speed 9, 24, 26 morale –1 cost 300 support 40

    Early Ghulam bodyguards:charge 8 attack 3 defence 4 armour 4 speed 9, 20, 22 morale 6 cost 300 support 62
    High Ghulam bodyguards:charge 8 attack 3 defence 5 armour 5 speed 9, 20, 22 morale 6 cost 350 support 62
    Sipahi of the Porte: .... charge 4 attack 3 defence 6 armour 7 speed 9, 20, 22 morale 6 cost 500 support 105

    There is also two heavy cavalry units not available in the Turks' initial territory:

    Avar nobles: ............... charge 6 attack 3 defence 5 armour 7 speed 9, 20, 22 morale 4 cost 425 support 60
    Steppe heavy cavalry: .. charge 2 attack 3 defence 4 armour 5 speed 9, 20, 22 morale 4 cost 450 support 45

    Sipahi of the Porte and Steppe Heavies are heavy horse archers: they carry bows, but can do well in a melee also.

    (From Froggy's unit guide)

    As you can see, Ghulam are slightly cheaper than Armenians but have higher upkeep and less charge. Khwarazmian have better defense and armour values, but a lower charge and a higher price (both initial and upkeep). They are equal in stats to ordinary Kataphraktoi, but tend to fail miserably when going head-to-head with the Byzantine jedi-generals. Ottoman Sipahi are the weakest of the family, but they come at bargain price (for heavy cavalry at least). Avar nobles rock, even though their training cost is rather high. Personally, I am very fond of Steppe heavies because they are heavy cavalry and horse archer in one, but they are rather costly and their stats are not that good. The bodyguard units are of excellent quality as always, but come with a hefty price tag for a small unit.
    Last edited by Ludens; 02-27-2006 at 14:02.
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  29. #119

    Default Re: Turks

    But then add the +2 to attack and defence for +2 valour and the Armenian cavalry rocks, especially considering how low the build requirements are.

  30. #120
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by idiotpariah
    But then add the +2 to attack and defence for +2 valour and the Armenian cavalry rocks, especially considering how low the build requirements are.
    True, and not to forgot +4 morale making them very hard to rout. However, a nearby province IIRC also gave +1 to Ghulams, so you can get +2 Ghulams relativily easy as well. Still, there is almost no reason to prefer Ghulams above AHC.
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