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Thread: XVI -XVII mod

  1. #481
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    BKB how should I call this unit ?

    NEWS

    Here are my first historical introductions - these for the polish faction. I know that my english isn't as good as it should be so plese free to correct me - send me PM if You see any mistake.

    Here they are.


    EARLY

    'The Golden Age'

    The XVth century was very good time for Poland. After a long struggle the Teutonic Order was finally crushed and the polish part of pomerania
    was reclaimed. The trade flows undisturbed once more to the Baltic Sea and beyond, the Jagiellonian university in Krakow is one of the most famous and respected in the whole Europe and slow process of colonization of the future Ukraine has just begun.
    Thanks to the union from 1385 the Polish-Lithuanian state became the largest catholic country in the world and still remains to be so, but it shouldn't be forgotten that only smaller part of the population is really polish and the number of the orthodox christians is only a little smaller than of the catholics.
    The Polish-Lithuanian state is a multinational country almost as the United States of America will be in the far future. Poles, Lithuanians, Germans, Ruthenians, Belorussians, Ukrainians, Russians, Jews and Tatars, and many more less numerous or less known peoples live in this country. Certainly religious tolerance is required if the state is going to survive. The state will benefit from numerous ideas created
    by this diverse society, but Poland isn't obviously the best candidate for future european super-power.
    Only thanks to the ruling Jagiellonian dynasty and many mutual interests of catholic and orthodox nobles the union still survived and although one danger was eliminated many more queue up to reveal themselves.
    In the east Muscovites are closer and closer to create Russia once more. Certainly after they conquer the decaying remnants of once-great Golden Horde they will try to get as much as they can in the west.
    In the north the Kalmar Union is close to be broken and whatever appears to replace it almost certainly Poland is going to be one of its targets.
    In the south the Ottoman Empire becomes stronger and stronger, it seems that Hungary will be its next prey, but it's easy to guess who could be the second. Even small states of Germany and the Crimean Khanate can be more than just irritating.
    Fortunatelly expansion is still easier than it seems. Livonian state is an obvious choice - rich and relatively weak - also eastern, even russian provinces are rather easier to take than anything to the south or west of Poland. The danger is that the furure war against the Ottomans seems inevitable, so probably preparing strong in the southern border is a matter of close future.

    HIGH

    'The Great Experiment'

    The last century was the golden age for this multinational country. Not many and mostly victorius wars were fought, peace with the Ottoman sultans lasted for almost the whole XVIth century. The trade flows as never before and polish grain feeds many of western countries. Polish nobles are one of the best educated in the whole continent.
    The death of Zygmunt August ends the long reign of the Jagiellonian dynasty and although sometimes it seems completely opposite the Polish-Lithuanian union is to last for more than two centuries from this time. The last years certainly were extremly important for the future of this country. The kingdom was reformed, many changes implemented and finally the new political union between the two nations was signed in Lublin in 1569. The monarchy was almost replaced with Rzeczpospolita ( republic), but still many more changes have to be implemented.
    Religious tolerance, strong Sejm ( Parliament) and finally the requirement to swear to obey all this to the the nation is irritating to many would-be kings of the Republic, nevertheless the power of the king is still strong enough for any skilled monarch.
    The first election is close and much depends on the future ruler's personality.
    It is difficult time for Europe.
    Western Europe enters one religious war after another, the southern countries fight back ottoman fleets and finally Russia looms as the big, dark cloud in the east. Certainly Ivan the Terrible isn't the best neighbour for Poland.
    Fortunatelly it is the time of the best and the most skilled commanders in polish history and the reformed polish army is one of the best in the whole Europe. Any skilled ruler should bear this in mind.
    It seems that war against Russia is a matter of days rather than years and a decisive blow is necessary to cut Russia from the Baltic Sea. Expansion in any other direction is more difficult, but it's impossible to avoid ottoman expansion so probably it's better to attack turkish provinces than to be attacked.

    LATE

    Playing the Polish at this period is harder than in chosen difficulty level.

    'Calamitatis Regnum'

    Is this tha end of independent Poland ?
    After the magnificient king Stephen Bathory something bad had happened. The intolerant 'jesuit king' was elected. Sigismund's reign was disastrous for this country. Unnecessary wars, bad allinces and many political blunders mark the long reign of this king. Despite the fact that polish armies humilated the biggest european powers and most skilled commanders, even captured Kremlin for a year or more, too many opportunities were wasted.
    Poland is still the most tolerant country in Europe, but certainly not thanks to Sigismund who seemed to be extremly well skilled in offending everybody, even the best statesmen as the chancellor Zamoyski.
    His son Wladislaw was better ruler, but it wasn't very difficult after his father's reign.
    Unfortunatelly he wasn't good enough to repair all the damage which was done by his father, especially when it comes to idiotic persecution of orthodox christians.
    The next Cossack rebellion has just started and what was started as a local insurrection easily became civil war or even national rising of the whole Ukraine.
    Beware, because Russia, Sweden, the Ottomans or even the Crimean Khanate and Branderburgia may join the invasion if they see Poland as an easy prey.
    Polish army is still very good and has very good commanders, but it is small and using low quality, but cheap troops as Szlachta seems to be inevitable.
    This time it is the battle for survival, rather than conquest.

    What do You think about these ?

    Regards Hetman




  2. #482
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Call them either Thomas caverden's infantry or Sprinkler men. Sounds weird but thats what they would have been knowed as.

  3. #483
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    I've got a pic... puuh
    Soldato del contingente Thomas Caverden 1544


    Alex
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  4. #484
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Good man They look swell don't they?

  5. #485
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    Yes, they do

  6. #486
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    I need an image (McBride style preferred, height at least 200px) of an infantryman from the tudor era (those fancy trousers, perhaps a baret (sp?) with a feather). I'll (ctl+c and ctl+v) compose the different info pics for early english troops of it.

    Thanks in advance, Alex

    P.S. The swell one would be among them, i assume...
    P.P.S. ... by the way, if someone could scan some (McBride style, plain headgear, unarmoured) horses, i've got lot's of cavalrymen (on foot ) that desperatly need a horse.
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  7. #487
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    NEWS

    MOLDAVIA

    I did some research and
    I believe we can add Moldavia as playable faction for 'early', but certainly not in the first release, anyway here are the units they'll get.

    Oastea Mica Boyars - medium/heavy bodyguard cavalry armed with bows and lances,

    Oastea Mica Viteji Retainers - light cavalry with compound bows and spears,

    Calarisi - elite infantry with bows, will be able to hide everywhere,


    presently used Moldavian cavalry and Moldavian skirmishers are replaced with:

    Oastea Mare cavalry - rather mounted infantry than cavalry, but cheap and able to dismount every time to -

    Razesi - ordinary infantry armed with compound bows and swords,

    the two units above will be available as regional units in Moldavia and Carpathia

    in addition Wallachian Cavalry will be able to dismount into Calarisi in open battles ( to make it really useful).

    Future Moldavia will get access to mercenary units, some units from closer factions ( Cossacks, some Tatar units ...) and even some ottoman units ( from Balkans).

    I know that adding Moldavia means more valuable unit slots to use, but I think 3 units isn't high price to pay for additional and rather unique faction for the Balkans.

    ENGLAND

    Sprinkler men are added in the roster. Available in 'early' for England
    in Wessex only (?).

    So we have 219 units at this moment.


    THE OTTOMAN UNITS

    I decided to try to make a list of units for the Ottomans.
    I didn't add this to the roster. I wait for Your opinions about them.

    Kapikulu Infantries ( Yenicheri)
    -Zirhli Nefer armored soldiers,
    -Tüfekchi musketeers,
    -Okchu archers - only 'early',

    Kapikulu Cavalries ( palace cavalry)
    -Sipahi Corps Kirmizi Bayrak - majority,
    -Silahdar Corps Sari Bayrak-Yellow Banner - bodyguards,
    -Garib Corps - guardians of the Prophet's Banner,

    'The Core' - provincional cavalry
    - Timarli Sipahi heavy cavalries,
    - Jebelü light cavalries,

    frontier troops
    -Akinjis not in 'late',
    -Delil,

    provincional infantry
    -Azebs,
    -Sekbans not in 'late' - peasants
    -Sarijas from 'high' sharp-shooters,
    -Tüfekchi Musketeers - from 'high' or 'late'
    -Levends from 'high', bandits


    Auxiliaries
    -The Algerian Naval soldiers called Ta'ifat Al Ru'sa ( musket armed),
    -Balkan ( Serbia, Bulgaria) Voynuks
    Most of the voynuks were heavy cavalries,
    -Martolos Greek Auxiliaries - muszkiet, bandits,
    -Sharp-shooter Panduks - Bosnia,
    -musketeer Eflaks - Wallachia and Bosnia, musketeers,
    -Ashirs (Syrian local militia),

    I found this info in the Russian forum - the link to an englishlanguage page.
    Not so many, only 21 including dismounted; one or two ( or more ?) of these could be removed. Any suggestions ?

    Most of these I know quite well - how should they look like at least.

    Regards Hetman

  8. #488
    Grand Dude Member Dead Moroz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 15 2004,12:47)]I found this info in the Russian forum - the link to an englishlanguage page.
    Do you mean this site?

  9. #489
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    Yes. Thanks for the link

  10. #490
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    THE OTTOMANS

    For the Ottoman army I selected the following units:

    Kapikulu Infantries ( Yenicheri)
    -Zirhli Nefer armored soldiers,

    -Tüfekchi musketeers - from 'high',

    -Okchu archers - only 'early',


    Kapikulu Cavalries ( palace cavalry)
    -Sipahi Corps Kirmizi Bayrak - majority of this elite,

    -Silahdar Corps Sari Bayrak-Yellow Banner - bodyguards,

    -Garib Corps - guardians of the Prophet's Banner,


    'The Core' - provincional cavalry
    - Timarli Sipahi heavy cavalry,

    - Jebelü light cavalry,

    frontier troops

    -Akinjis not in 'late',

    -Delil - 'Deli',

    provincional infantry
    -Azebs,

    -Sekbans not in 'late' - peasants,

    -Tüfekchi Musketeers - from 'high' or 'late',

    -Levends from 'high' - bandits,


    Auxiliaries
    -The Algerian Naval soldiers called Ta'ifat Al Ru'sa ( musket armed),

    -Balkan ( Serbia, Bulgaria) Voynuks heavy cav.

    -Martolos Greek Auxiliaries - musket armed, bandits,

    -Sharp-shooter Panduks - Bosnia,

    -Ashirs (Syrian local militia),

    I decided to remove Sarijas, because they are sharp-shoters and in my opinion this kind of infantry should be very difficult to find and recruit. The Panduks/Pandurs should be enough and they'll make Croatia and Serbia more important to keep ( will be available also to the HRE, Hungary, Venetia ( ?) and future Moldavia. Second unit I decided to delete were the Eflaks who wouldn't be very different than other types of musketeers.
    Ashirs and Martalos are still here because I/we need more local, regionally available units. They are here even if I don't know much about the Ashirs.

    So generally the Ottomans will have 19 units in their roster + will be able to recruit at least 10 more units from those available to other factions.

    HUNGARY

    I decided to add units exclusive to Moldavia ( except Calarisi) to hungarian unit list also, because I've found out that they were used in Transylvanian armies quite often.

    GENERALLY

    I removed Italian Mounted Crossbowmen from the roster. Something else should be added for the Italian factions, but still I don't know what.

    At this moment we have 237 units - so we can add, let's say, 14
    I believe ( the limit is 256, but I want to have some free slots, just in case...).

    Regards Hetman

  11. #491
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    CAVALRY REVISITED

    I checked all our cavalry units and delved into several sources. And I do think some of the cavalry units aren't necessary.

    So here are the changes for

    SPAIN

    I removed the following -

    Harquebusiers cavalry,

    'Hombres de armas' cavalry

    Later Hombres de armas cavalry

    Carabiniers cavalry



    The final cavalry roster for Spain will be as follows -

    Archeros - elite cavalry, lance and pistols;

    Jinetes - 'Celadas' - light cavalry with lances and pistols

    Later Spanish Royal Guards - Archeros without lances;

    'Herreruelo' - Spanish cuirassiers - similar to average western cuirassiers,

    later Jinetes - 'Celadas' - without lances,

    and new unit - Spanish Dragoons

    I remind You that Spain would be able to use Mounted Crossbowmen, Mounted Arquebusiers, Lancers and German reiters, Mercenary Cuirassiers, Mercenary Dragoons + several other regional and buildable mercenary units and of course 'normal' hired mercenaries.

    HOLLAND

    I also decided to remove -

    Dutch Mounted Harquebusiers, - 'Bereden Harquebusiers'

    Because the 'generic' Mounted Arquebusiers are almost identical, I find no reason to give the Dutch their own mounted arquebusiers they were very similar in the whole Europe so the dutch unit is removed as the spanish one.

    Instead the Dutch will get

    Round shield Pikemen for 'high' (bodyguards).

    They will be easy to add, even when it comes to the graphics - only adding some kind of shield to pikemen is necesary for them.

    THIJSP - I will need this name in Dutch ( singular and plural), please
    post it.

    At this moment we have 234 units.

    Now I'm serching for more units for France, Hungary, Italian states, Danemark and German states.

    Regards Hetman

  12. #492
    Member Member ThijsP's Avatar
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    Well its not really a special name for it but if you want it in Dutch it is

    singel: Piekenier met rondas(or for rondas rond schild)
    plurar: Piekeniers met rondas(same thing)

    edit: or mayby you can call them lijfwacht(sing) lijfwachten(plur). Thats just the translation of bodyguards




  13. #493
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    Some more units:

    DENMARK:
    There aren't documentations about the danish army of the 16th and 17th century, well one idea:
    Snapphane (Pl. Snapphanar)
    > Picture
    I think the name means something like 'cock/chicken thief' (in german exists the word 'Schnapphahn').
    Their organization varied from regular marksman companies in Danish service to pure gangs of robbers consisting of drifters. Around the 1660s there were several wars between Sweden and Denmark. In the province of Scania (now in southern Sweden) the Danish resistance fighters were called Snapphanar (singular form: Snapphane). These guerillas (to use a modern term) were peasants who kept up the fight even after a peaceful settlement had been reached and some groups degenerated into criminal bands.
    In game:
    small band (< 60)
    undisciplined, poorly formed
    unarmoured
    armed with muskets (1660) of a lower quality (second hand)
    good attack, weak defence
    to reflect the fact that they are guerilla we could add the ability to hide in the open (depends on morale)
    i&#39;m not sure about the morale, on the one hand side they are peasants only (ability to hide but low morale), on the other hand side they are fanatics (not able to hide, high morale)

    Additional pictures of other danish soldiers:
    > Soldier (at Skara, 1611)
    > Musketeer (1612)
    > Musketeer (Princess Anne of Denmark regiment, 1685)

    SWEDEN:
    Fänika (swedish lifeguards)
    http://www.illustrata.com/images/fanik266.jpg
    > Flash animation (for modeling ?)
    Fänika (tactical unit used in the late dark ages)
    A halberdier from Duke Karl&#39;s private army. The Swedish word for what we’ve referred to here as a private army is fänika, and it means &#39;he who follows the standard (fana)&#39;. Duke Karl built up his own fänika in the last decade of the 16th century, putting Mårten Buller (Buller=rumbling)
    from Bullersta farm in charge of it. This army played
    a crucial role in Duke Karl’s military victory at Stångebro, Sweden in 1598 over his nephew Sigismund, king of Poland and Sweden. This army went on to become Södermanland’s Regement, which was primarily a domestic unit with police-like duties. It was also used to build infrastructure, protect the Duke and keep the peace.
    In game:
    I&#39;m not sure about this unit, in early/late they are life-/bodyguards but later they are used as police only.
    I think we could make them good militia (bound to a royal building, palace ?) and use them in all eras.
    In early/late they could form the swedish bodyguards.
    size 60
    armed with sword and halberd
    unarmoured
    good defense
    good morale
    bonus attacking armoured units and cavalry


    Alex
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  14. #494

  15. #495
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    The mod enters implementing phase, so I&#39;m revising the unit list.
    I&#39;m finishing the removal of the units which are not important/usefull enough.

    Recently I implemented all moldavian units, most of polish and almost all pikemen/musketeer units.

    MORE CHANGES

    I decided to remove georgian

    Swordsmen Mkhedrebi - cavalry - &#39;Khmlosani Mkhedrebi&#39;

    from the roster. Creating one unit charging with spears and fighting with swords makes more sense to me. Sorry Datka

    Alexe&#39;s proposals will be implemented.

    &#39;Snapphanar&#39; for Danemark in &#39;late&#39;, in Norway only ( there is no Scania yet). These guys will have rather low morale, would hide in the open in 50 men units, armed with muskets ( quite accurate type - they were marksmen after all).
    They will in addition affect protestant zeal.

    &#39;Fänika&#39;

    OK, they are in.
    Available in &#39;early&#39; and &#39;high&#39; and also will be Swedish royal bodyguards at this time.
    In &#39;late&#39; they were like police, so could be replaced with ordinary urban militia.
    I think it is the best solution.

    In addition they will replace Drabanterna, which is removed ( not enough info about them).

    BUILDABLE MERCENARIES

    Earlier I thought they should be rather time-consuming when it comes to recruitment, but cheap.

    Now, what about 1 year recruitment time, but very high maintenance cost
    ( 150 % of initial recruitment cost) ?

    PROJECTILE

    I prepared the missile stats for the mod.

    There are - longbows, compound bows, heavy crossbows, throwing spears,

    and firearms - pistol ( fast reload), pistol (slow reload), arquebus,
    musket, more accurate and fast-reloading musket for better troops, muskets for elite units ( even faster reload) and finally flintlock musket for the most advanced units ( at least 1 will be added - &#39;generic&#39; if one only).

    DANISH CAVALRY

    Since I have only one source about danish army (this about cavalry), I can only propose 1 new unit for the Danish faction - National Cavalry
    ( &#39;Nationale Ryttere&#39; ?) - unarmoured cavalry armed with a sword and
    2 pistols ( fast reload) with good morale, available in &#39;late&#39; and generally not very different from average cavalry of this period.
    i know it&#39;s not very interesting, but it is one of few units which can be called Danish, unfortunatelly.
    Maybe someone else has more interesting ideas.

    DISMOUNTED CAVALRY

    Some specific, although not many, infantry units for dismounted cavalry are necessary.
    Of course not every unit should use one of these entries.

    Proposals:

    Dismounted early cavalry - armoured, sword-armed;

    Dismounted later cavalry - unarmoured ( ?), broadsword;

    Dismounted eastern armoured cavalry - chainmail armour, sabre ( very useful for lots of cavalry units);

    Dismounted hungarian/polish/maybe moldavian nobles - very unique outfits, similar to russian so maybe one of russian units could use this entry ( Dead Moroz what do You think ?), no armour, sabre;

    These are my proposals, any comments/ideas ?

    STILL ONLY

    234 units at this moment.



    regards Hetman

  16. #496
    Autocrat Member Vlad The Impaler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 15 2004,03:47)]NEWS

    MOLDAVIA

    I did some research and
    I believe we can add Moldavia as playable faction for &#39;early&#39;, but certainly not in the first release, anyway here are the units they&#39;ll get.

    Oastea Mica Boyars - medium/heavy bodyguard cavalry armed with bows and lances,

    Oastea Mica Viteji Retainers - light cavalry with compound bows and spears,

    Calarisi - elite infantry with bows, will be able to hide everywhere,


    presently used Moldavian cavalry and Moldavian skirmishers are replaced with:

    Oastea Mare cavalry - rather mounted infantry than cavalry, but cheap and able to dismount every time to -

    Razesi - ordinary infantry armed with compound bows and swords,

    the two units above will be available as regional units in Moldavia and Carpathia

    in addition Wallachian Cavalry will be able to dismount into Calarisi in open battles ( to make it really useful).

    Future Moldavia will get access to mercenary units, some units from closer factions ( Cossacks, some Tatar units ...) and even some ottoman units ( from Balkans).

    I know that adding Moldavia means more valuable unit slots to use, but I think 3 units isn&#39;t high price to pay for additional and rather unique faction for the Balkans.
    i will write you here about Moldavia not only about the units but aswell about the factions.feel free to use any info or ask me if u dont understand something.
    Capital should be Suceava .
    the starting grand voivode should be Steven the Great ( 1457 -1504 ).he is considered the greatest romanian voivode , an huge personality , very fervent ( he build around 40 churches and monastaires, one for each battle he won ), excelent defender ( he lost just 2 batle from 36 ), adultery ( a lots of wifes and concubines , ilegitimate children etc.), scant mercy or autocrat ( he executed a lots of boyars who opposed his laws), lawmaker also.at the time when the period starts he was already well known by his friends or his enemies.he died at 65 so he seize throne at 18 years, this should tell a lot about his performances.he manage to keep an independent external policy between two catholic militant states as Hungaria and Poland , Tartars and Ottoman Empire.he was the cousin of Vlad The Implaler.
    if u need more info about his heirs or heroes let me know and i&#39;ll edit this post ( i&#39;ll respond here to have all info in one piece).

    about the army.
    this consists in The Little Army ( meaning Oastea Mica ).
    this was formed from : the householders ( guards of voivode court).this were sons of boyars ( little or big nobles) send for military duty .they were medium cavalry , they wear grey to white uniforms, black leather hats and armors as chain mail or imitations after the tartars lamelar armors or somthing i dont know well in english but in latin is lorica thorax, maybe someone will explain you.their weapons were a lance in the billmen fashion with one head for push and for picking the enemy and composite bow.
    also in the Little Army ( Oastea Mica ) Steven the Great make one core of peasants ( razesi in romanian, freemen ) that were raised in little nobilty ranks because of their skills in battle.this core was called pantiri ( about 1000-2000 soldiers) and it was a little heavier armoured than the guards of the voivode householders ( curteni, copii de casa in romanian).
    their weapons were lance and sword , they were troops for punch , for charging.
    the little army have also the mercenaries.first cossacks, poles,wallachian , hungarian or german troops from Transylvania , szeklers ( directly interested in defending their borderland against turks.) also later were used a lot of german , czech , slovak troops , especially troops with archebuses , guns.
    a special part of the little army are the borders ( plaiesi in romanian ).they were guarding the fortresses the sourrronding moldavian territory.althoug freemen they were on permanent duty at various defensive points.
    The Big Army ( Oastea Mare in romanian ) consist on freemen,razesi in romanian.they were also mounted or dismounted it depends in wich region was their village.the ones from around borders were usually mounted ( because they have to counter tartars or turkish akancii) , the ones from interior were usually on foot.they use bows and lances , wood shields, some have light armours.Steven gave them great privileges , this was his great defensive force , very mobile in defence on interior lines but not so good in long offensive ( because they have to get back to work the land they own).i think the serbians from military regions from Antemuralis Christianis from Bosnia are the best comparison.they were fierce warriors , they know their rights and because of their land they were somehow wealthy compared with peasants from other countries.there are villages of razesi in even actual romanian Moldavia with papers signed by Steven the Great that guaratee their common property on land and their rights.

    ok..let me know what u want to know more, heroes, functions to the court of various assistants of voivode..anything.
    Tough Times Don't Last. Tough People Do. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. [Mark Twain]

  17. #497
    Grand Dude Member Dead Moroz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 21 2004,12:29)]Dismounted hungarian/polish/maybe moldavian nobles - very unique outfits, similar to russian so maybe one of russian units could use this entry ( Dead Moroz what do You think ?), no armour, sabre;
    IIRC the dismounted units of Russians are Ryndy (no armour, axe), Cossacks (no armour, rifle, sabre), Mounted Streltsy (no armour, rifle, berdysh) and Dragoons (no armour, rifle, berdysh). Mounted Streltsy and Dragoons in dismounted state will use the graphics of Streltsy. Dismounted Ryndy have very unique appearance.
    So we have only dismounted cossacks. If those Dismounted nobles will have rifles I wouldn&#39;t mind them to share the graphics with cossacks.
    I don&#39;t see any other Russian units who need dismounted state and whose equipment is the same with those Dismounted nobles.

  18. #498
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    Bear in mind that even Znat and other feudal cavalry need dismounted forms for castle assaults.

    Hetman

  19. #499
    Grand Dude Member Dead Moroz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Hetman @ July 22 2004,12:17)]Bear in mind that even Znat and other feudal cavalry need dismounted forms for castle assaults.
    Agreed. But... I&#39;ve never used dismounted units for castle assaults. I prefer them in mounted state to quickly pass the territory where they are under fire of towers. Anyway it&#39;s the matter of taste.

    Russian Znat and Pomestnaya Konnitsa could not use the graphics of Dismounted Nobles because Znat are armoured and PK have unique dress.

  20. #500
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    New units, additional descriptions of already known units and some links:

    HRE:
    Verlorne Haufe (Singular and Plural are equal)
    Verlorener Haufen (todays german)
    Literally a lost bunch of Imperial skirmishers (criminals and some volunteers), usually armed with two-handed swords and halberds, who ran ahead of the army to disrupt enemy pike blocks. Musketeers and arquebusiers were similarly employed. The task was very hazardous, and these troops were written off as casualties as soon as they were comitted to battle.
    Their flag was always red.

    SWISS:
    Reisläufer (Pl. Reisläufer)
    The swiss mercenaries that served in foreign armies called themself &#39;Reisläufer&#39; (Trip/Tour = Reise, Runner = Läufer) - not mercenaries.

    FRANCE:
    Gendarmes
    Gens d&#39;armes. Heavily armoured (usually French) knights
    Special formation: Gendarmes de la Garde

    Enfants Perdus (Sing. Enfant Perdus ?)
    Literally, lost children or Children of Hell. French skirmishing arquebusiers. See verlorne Haufe above.

    Argoulets (Sing. Argoulet ?)
    French mounted arquebusiers, renowned for their excellent marksmanship with a musket
    > picture

    French Guards (Maison du Roi):
    Gendarmes de la Garde (see above Gendarmes)
    Chevau-légers
    Gardes du Corps
    > picture

    Grenadier à cheval (Pl. Grenadiers à cheval)
    Mounted Grenadiers, the best grenadiers (on foot) of all french regiments formed a special cavalry company of 100 men. Founded 1676.
    > picture

    Mousquetaires du Roi
    Mousquetaires Gris (Gray Musketeers, 1st company, 1657)
    > picture
    and
    Mousquetaires Noirs (Black Musketeers, 2nd company, 1665)
    > picture
    each company 250 men, mounted
    > picture


    Foot Guards:
    Gardes Françaises
    > picture
    Gardes Suisses
    > picture

    Miller (Pl. Millers)
    Heavy Cavalry of the French Huguenots (Armoured, Sword and Pistol)
    > picture

    SPAIN:
    Herreruelo (Pl. Herreruelos)
    Spanish sword and pistol cavalry - like Reiters
    > picture

    Herguletier (Pl. Herguletiers)
    Spanish mounted arquebusiers.

    Escopetero (Pl.Escopeteros)
    Spanish mounted arquebusiers/musketeers.
    > picture (1705 style)

    Caballos Ligeros
    Lightly armoured Spanish knights - demi-lances

    Caballos Corazas
    Armoured 17th C. Spanish sword & pistol cavalry (cuirassiers).

    ITALY:
    Papal/Swiss Guards
    founded 1507, fericous fighting swiss mercenaries, saved the pope in the battle of rome (sacco di roma, 1527)

    Galleas (Ship)
    A combination of galley and galleon with oars and sails, and guns mounted fore, aft, and broadside
    Galeazza Veneziana
    > Picture
    More pictures of ships on my pages.

    Scapoli (i&#39;m not that firm in italian, singular could be Scapolo)
    Ships crews used for land combat, usually by Venetians

    Famiglia Ducale
    Italian Ducal bodyguard knights.

    Cavalleria Leggiera
    Lightly armoured Italian knights - demi-lances.

    ARTILLERY:
    Culverin
    A very long-barreled field gun firing 17-20 lb. shot.
    Demiculverins
    fired 10 lb. shot.
    Drake
    Brass land and naval guns firing 6 lb. shot.
    Falcon
    Medieval light gun.
    Falconet
    Light swivel gun with 2 bore.
    Minion
    3.25 bore, 4 lb. shot.
    Ribaldequin
    Organ or battery gun with several small-bore barrels mounted parallel on the same platform, the Renaissance equivalent of grapeshot.
    Saker
    Land and naval gun, smaller than demiculverin, 5 lb. shot.
    Serpentine
    Small gun with 1.5 bore and removable breech

    Additional articles:
    Renaissance Armies: The English - Henry VIII to Elizabeth
    Renaissance Armies: The Irish
    Renaissance Armies: The Scots
    Renaissance Armies: Military Orders
    Renaissance Armies: The Swiss
    The Winged Hussars of Poland
    (English) Swords 1600-1650 (maybe useful for modeling ?)

    Alex
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  21. #501
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Zitat[/b] (Hetman @ Juli 21 2004,10:29)]./. &#39;Snapphanar&#39; ./. They will in addition affect protestant zeal. ./.
    I don&#39;t think that they should (positivly) influence zeal, heretic faith maybe.
    As far as i know (not much indeed), they were simple guerilla fighters against the swedish (also protestants).
    The picture that i linked above shows them in a dispute with a (protestant, they fought in scania only) priest, maybe because they plundered his church ?
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Zitat[/b] ]./. BUILDABLE MERCENARIES ./. Now, what about 1 year recruitment time, but very high maintenance cost (150 % of initial recruitment cost) ? ./.
    I agree, but you could use &#39;real&#39; figures (at least the ratios) :
    Fussknecht (normal soldier, unmounted): 4 Gulden (mounted, i don&#39;t know ~6-8 maybe, depends on the equipment, i think)
    Doppelsoldner (double payment): 8 Gulden
    Korporal (corporal): 12 Gulden
    Feldwebel (sergeant): 21 Gulden.
    Officers and Warrants: 50-60 Gulden
    Hauptmann (Captain, leader of a flag) 160 Gulden
    Obrist (Colonel, leader of a regiment) 500 Gulden (or 600 if he commands a mounted unit)

    Does the AI cares about maintenance costs when building troops ? It would be quite bad (some of them are necessary for some factions that lack of unique troops) if the AI wouldn&#39;t build them because they are to expensive.

    Alex
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  22. #502
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Hey all, Sorry for answering so late, but my access to the Net is kinda absent, so my contributions will be quite slow for a while.

    Anyway, about spanish cavalry: I think the Carabineros should be in, maybe as a Naples-only buildable unit. Are we running out of units slots?

    Another thing, we still have no info about northern Africa (right? ) I might be able to find some Algerian History books that might be useful, but I wont be able to update te info til late September.

    BTW, Hetman, the intros look quite good.

    Glad to see the thing moving, ciao.
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

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  23. #503
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    I think i&#39;ve found at least two unique units for the Knights of St. John in the article about the Military Orders:

    The mercenaries were pikemen and arquebusiers, normally equipped for the period, with morions or burgonets, and corselets and tassets for the pikemen. The militia had only helmets and leather jerkins and was probably mainly armed with firearms. They demonstrated a staunchness and loyalty similar to that for which their island was later awarded the George Cross.
    and
    Some interesting special siege weapons were also employed by the defenders, including cercles of blazing wadding which were dropped over groups of attackers, fire-grenades in earthenware pots with four spouts, each containing a fuse, and &#39;Trumps&#39;, a sort of short-range flamethrower on a pole. They were very effective against the Turks, who retaliated with sticky-bombs of incendiary type, hurled by the Janissaries; the knights kept large tubs of water behind the ramparts, into which anyone hit by one could hastily jump
    I think we could use the militia as a unique unit (or local unit) for this faction. Two different types:
    Maltesian/Order Arquebusiers (high morale)
    Maltesian/Order Naptha Throwers (Grenadiers ?)
    The order used the latin or italian language as far as i know (&#39;Fra&#39; Jean la Vallete) - Archibugiero (Pl. Archibugieri) sounds better in my opinion.

    The knights may in some cases have worn full armour, but as they were fighting on foot would be more likely to wear half-armour or brigantine. They carried various officer-type weapons, useful in siege warfare, such as halberds, half-pikes, two-handed swords and so on, and to judge by near-contemporary prints many of them bore oval bucklers, red with the white cross. The Grand Master, Jean la Vallete, betrayed his 70 years in his white beard, moustache and curly hair, but played an active role; he was armed with a two-handed sword and was distinguished by a supravest of cloth-of-gold and the shield shown.
    Another unique unit, a knight with a polearm and a buckler ?

    The Galeas/Galeazza could be the heavy warship (you&#39;ve called it Big Galley) of the venetians and the knights.

    Alex
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  24. #504
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    Nice work Alex and very useful links as well, especially about order troops.

    And now... the larch...

    And now... the new units.

    Gallowglass

    Kern - still javelins or throwing spear

    Both units available in Ireland for catholic factions only and maybe for irish faction if added, although it sounds a little crazy...
    I believe that the units will be able to hide in the open to recreate guerrilla tactics they were using.

    and for

    HRE
    - Verlorne Haufe

    France
    - Enfants Perdus

    - Argoulets ( but when ?) they will have more accurate firearms than ordinary arquebusiers.

    and of course

    Mousquetaires du Roi, but only one unit, were too small to add both two

    Venetia

    Scapoli - if I get more info - when and what weapons
    Will be also available to other future italian factions ( Genoa).

    Knights ( finally something for these guys)

    Order militia - musket-like accurate firepower from &#39;early&#39; and decent morale.


    Millers - great idea Now for protestant factions in the french homeland, but after protestant church is build ( and not only).
    In the future maybe for the Hougenot faction - if added.


    Also Scottish units will be revised

    so they have -

    Pikemen from early
    --&#62; both as buildable mercenaries
    muskets from high

    Montrose&#39;s musketeers

    from late - bonus defending vs. cavalry, decent melee, high firepower
    instead of royal muskets and for English and French.
    Royal pikemen will be removed.

    so additional 8 units.

    At this moment 242 units - 246 if all dismounted units will be added.

    ALEX
    About the mercenaries - I still didn&#39;t decide.
    The name &#39;Galeas&#39; will be used.
    Your additional ideas for the Knights rather won&#39;t be used, maybe except the grenade throwers.
    I&#39;ve read all the info You&#39;ve provided and as far as I remember the brotherhood was too small to add a unit of knights - they were more often commanders and officers than ordinary soldiers

    Regards Hetman

  25. #505
    Member Member Arman's Avatar
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    That registered Cossacks that Russia has are they Donskie Cossacks? If not we could also add Donskie Cossacks. They had taken Azov in 1637. In 4 years Turks had launched (80000(registred)-270000(+-unregistred)) army against them, but although only 5000 Cossacks were defending after 3.5 month of seige Turks had left. There was very fierce fighting, in first assault Turks get so close were fighting on knifes. In this assault Turks had lost all mercenaries (6000 Germans) and all janissaries in total 12000 men, and was forced to retreat. Cossacks even managed to launch surprise couterattack destroy Turks artillery positions, they continue fighting even when Azov was already ruined and there was not place to hide except of ruins. For many days Turks was bombing and then for many days was sending 10000 fresh troop every hour calling off tired troops so that Cossacks couldn’t take a rest and forced to fight days and nights. In document that I read, one of survivors complains that they could even eat or do their natural needs, that their eyes could not see any more because they was shutting all day long, and no energy left to hold sabers, but suddenly Turks had lifted the siege and left. Then they had found out that Turks had lost very many men in battle and much more due to epidemic and lack of food because all roads around was blocked by Zaporozhskie Cossacks.
    Regretfully can’t find any link for reading about them in English.. Russian internet doesn’t provide a lot of info. What I was reading is the letter writen in old russuan that survived Cossacks had sent to the Tsar asking for reinforcements and supplies after Turks had already left. In that letter they had specified that about 600 men had left from 7000. So they had showed great courage, and motivation, Turks was many time offering money and free pass to home but they had rejected all offers.

  26. #506
    Member Member Arman's Avatar
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    Don Cossacks was serving Russian king until Revolution. One another very well know Don Cossack is Ermak that with 500 Cossacks had conquered Siberia. Cossacks was cavalry but they was also dismounting when necessary. More detailed description of armor and arms.

  27. #507
    Member Member Hetman's Avatar
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    They are here - check russian roster in &#39;the results&#39;

  28. #508
    Grand Dude Member Dead Moroz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Arman @ July 24 2004,22:48)]That registered Cossacks that Russia has are they Donskie Cossacks?
    Yes... and no. That Registered Cossacks were composed by cossacks from different places - Ukraine, Don and Volga basins, later South Ural and Siberia. They could be given land for service and settled in places they served. Don cossacks swore allegiance to Russian tsar only in 1671. And since that date there was separate Voysko Donskoye (Don Army) in Russian army.

    I think we don&#39;t need to make separate types of free cossacks for every region (Don, Volga, Ural, Siberia and even Zaporozhye). Because the difference between cossacks was not very noticeable especially in that time.

  29. #509
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    The italian armies:
    The page that i linked offers some infos, the thread for the two crowns mod is also dealing with this topic perhaps some of their ideas could be helpful (PM Angelnessuno for support ?).

    The rebels:
    They need a light gun (in early and late only ?) and perhaps a lighter version of the war wagon.
    The light gun could be the Haembacherin i described. You can call it &#39;hook-gun&#39; if you don&#39;t want to use a local term.
    It can be moved during battle (1/2 speed of an infantryman) and has a crew of 2-3 men. The stats are low, short range, damage is low for an artillery piece but higher than a musket&#39;s.
    The war wagon that they used were lighter than the hussite versions, some of them were just unmodified hay wagons.

    Some wagons would have been boarded in and kept upright, others turned on their sides, and all manner of objects used to fill the gaps.
    Only in those cases where peasant camps took on some degree of permanency would efforts have been made to dig in and raise the artillery in the centre of the fort.

    &#39;Armies of the German Peasants&#39; War 1525-26&#39;, Douglas Miller, Osprey Publishing

    These units would be helpful to make the historical battles of the german peasants&#39; wars.
    We could even make a new faction (unplayable, early only) for them, let&#39;s call it Bundschuh that&#39;s the name of a large peasants movement and it&#39;s sign is a shoe (> picture and > another one). This faction will be placed in southern germany (~swabia) without placing the leader so they will die out immediatly and the first heir would appear 16 years later and lead the uprising. It won&#39;t be exact timed but some kind of &#39;mongols&#39; scripting.
    Units (very limited):
    Infantry:
    All types of peasants, mostly pikemen
    German mercenary troops
    Cavalry:
    Free lancers (very small contingent)
    Artillery:
    War wagon
    Hook-gun
    perhaps some of the other pieces (light only)

    Alex
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  30. #510
    Member Member Arman's Avatar
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    We are going to have war wagons? Very interesting to imagine what it would look like? Will those be able to stop cavalry or going to be as vulnerable as usual artillery

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