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Thread: XVI -XVII mod

  1. #511
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    Default

    @ Arman
    as far as i know, yes we'll have them, take a loook at the pages 5 and 7 (unit rooster of the cossaks) of this thread.
    Here's a picture:


    @ Hetman
    I've read your question in the Alchemist Lab about the number of units slots that are available.
    Have you removed the Jiihad and the Crusade yet ? Would be two additional slots. If not, we could remove the Jiihad (the Ottomans are strong enough) and keep the Crusade (Portugal and Spain only, call it Conquista).

    Alex
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  2. #512
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexPeters
    @ Arman
    as far as i know, yes we'll have them, take a loook at the pages 5 and 7 (unit rooster of the cossaks) of this thread.
    Here's a picture:


    @ Hetman
    I've read your question in the Alchemist Lab about the number of units slots that are available.
    Have you removed the Jiihad and the Crusade yet ? Would be two additional slots. If not, we could remove the Jiihad (the Ottomans are strong enough) and keep the Crusade (Portugal and Spain only, call it Conquista).

    Alex


    The warwagons will be here - pikemen with organ gun for now.

    2nd Removing these two is too difficult for now, but I'll probably find 1or 2 slots.
    There will be no crusades or Jihads - won't be usable.

    Regards Hetman reborn

  3. #513
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    I've finished the unit roster.

    I added all previously proposed units + several more - removed some.

    So I added :

    Szekely - horse archers for Hungary,

    Hungarian Hussars - medium, lance armed cavalry for 'high'/'late' for Hungary only;

    French heavy cavalry

    and French Light cavalry to recreate Richelie/Luis XIV reforms;

    Danish National Cavalry to give them one more unique unit for 'late';

    Muslim Levy - to add something for Egypt and available in whole North Africa and not only;

    Uskok - balkan border warriors for Hungary, HRE and Venetia

    and Line Infantry & Grenadiers as very advanced units for western countries ( Line) and some most advanced armies ( Sweden, France) - the Grenadiers.


    I removed

    Bohemian pikemen ( Musketeers should be enough),

    Cossack pikemen ( Ukrainian peasants and warwagons should be enough to protect their infantry against enemy cavalry),

    Polish pikemen - from 'Wybraniecka infantry' - were not very numerous and pilish cavalry should protect musketeers enough,

    Svennar cavalry - not enough information and not so important,

    French Chavaux - same reason.


    I can add small number of units, but only if given a very good reason and after I remove Wallon units ( all 4 or smaller number).

    I will implement these to the end of this week.

    Regards Hetman

  4. #514
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Unit list.

    The list is finished, although there is some space to include couple of units, but only if I find a very good reason to do this.

    unit name - notes - for (...)

    /////////////generic and very advanced////////////////

    Line Infantry - for countries to the west from Poland,

    Grenadiers - for France and Sweden,

    ////////////Rebels only/////////////////

    Peasant rebels ( all catholic, protestant and orthodox factions);

    Peasant guerillas - may hide in the open ( same as above);

    Rebel marksmen - may hide in the open, musket armed ( as above from 'high');

    Religious Fanatics ( as above in all periods);


    /////Units for several factions even for all of them////////////////////////////////

    -------generally buildable mercenaries aren't available to muslim factions---------

    Lancknecht Pikemen - ( all lancknechte units will be available to every
    faction - except muslim - in most of provinces with 'mercenary' trade good);

    Lancknecht Armoured Pikemen

    Lancknecht Halbardiers,

    Lancknecht Arquebusiers,

    Doppelsoldner ( lancknechte) - buildable mercenaries in Germany;

    ----------------------

    Albanian Stradiots - builable mercenaries in Italy and France;

    German Reiters
    - pistols, heavy armour -( buildable mercenaries recruitable in Germany, France, Italy and England);

    Free Lancers - buildable mercenaries in Germany ( available also to orthodox factions);

    -------------------------high +
    Mercenary Cuirassiers,

    Mercenary Pikemen,

    Mercenary Musketeers,

    Mercenary Dragoons,

    -------------------------------------- generic units available from

    Livonia to Portugal for every single faction - including muslim-----------------------

    Town Militia Shot - 'Town Militia' ( from 'high');

    UrbanMilitia armed with halberds;
    -------------------------------------------buildable mercenaries, but available also in several more provinces where ordinary buildable mercenaries can't be found

    Lancers
    - heavy cavalry in 'early' - ( available for all catholic and protestant factions to the west from Poland and Hungary);

    Eastern Lancers - Lancer units in Hungary and Poland ( but for everybody - buildable mercenaries). The were faster and less armoured than the ones in the west;

    Mounted Crossbows

    Mounted Arquebusiers

    Pavisiers
    - pavise and spear ( gothic sergeants),

    Mercenary Archers,

    Mercenary Arquebusiers,

    Mercenary Crossbows,
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    General - small unit for commanding, for most of factions ( for all catholic and protestant factions everywhere !).


    ///////regional units i.e. for many factions//////

    Hanza Town Militia - halberdiers - Baltic provinces ( Livonia, Prussia, Pomerania, Saxony);

    Courland Reiters
    - also called Livland Cuirassiers - in Livonia only;

    Czeremis Cavalry - 'Czeremisi' in Volga-Bulgaria and Volhynia;

    BorderReivers - regional unit in Nothumbria;

    Bohemian Musketeers, 'Musketyri' - both for Protestant factions only,

    Gallowglass
    -----> Ireland
    Kern - still javelins or throwing spear

    Millers - protestant cavalry in France, but for protestant factions;

    //////Poland=///////

    Polish Strzelcy ( Shooters) - 'Strzelcy'
    - horse archers, compound bows,

    Polish Cossacks - 'Kozacy'
    - light cavalry ( they aren't real Cossacks only the name is similar);

    Wybraniecka Infantry with muskets, - 'Piechota wybraniecka'

    Pancerni cavalry - 'Pancerni';

    Petyhorcy cavalry - 'Petyhorcy';

    Dragoni Cavalry or Polish Dragoons - 'Dragoni';

    Polish Light Cavalry, 'Wolosi'

    Husaria, - 'Husaria'

    Szlachta ( Polish Nobles) cavalry, - 'Szlachta'

    Frontier Szlachta ( Frontier Polish Nobles) cavalry,

    - 'Kresowa Szlachta'

    Cuirassiers ( Polish Reiters), 'Raitarzy'

    Polish Foreign Pikemen, 'Pikinierzy';

    Polish Foreign Musketeers, 'Muszkieterzy';

    Reformed Polish infantry
    - Wybraniecka musketeers with axe-like berdishi ( berdysz), similar to Russian inf,

    - 'Piechota lanowa'

    -------------------------Polish units available also to.....

    Lipkowie cavalry ( Lithuanian Tatars) from Poland, - 'Tatarzy' - (... to Crimean Khanate and the Ottomans);

    Lisowczyk Mercenary Cavalry - (buildable mercenaries available in polish homeland and in Silesia and Bohemia..... to Hapsburgs HRE); Lisowczycy Lisowczyk


    //////Hungary/////

    Hungarian infantry
    - so called 'Hajduk' ( also for Poland and Hapsburgs);

    Serbian Hussar Cavalry 'Gussary'
    ( also for Poland and Hapsburgs), available in Poland,

    Hungarian Hussars - cavalry,

    Szekely - light horse archers;

    Wagon infantry - also available to Poland and Russia,

    Uskok - balkan brigands from Hungarian border -------> also for HRE and Venetia,

    ////Spain=//////

    Spanish Corselet,

    Spanish pikemen,

    Spanish Harquebusiers,

    Spanish Musketeers,

    Fourageers,

    Spanish Reformed Musketeers ( bigger units),

    Spanish Reformed Pikemen ( smaller units),

    Spanish Arbalesters,

    'Encamisados',

    'Picas Secas' ( halfpikes so shorter pikes, 'long spears'),

    Rodeleros,

    'Maestre de Campo' bodyguards ( 8 men halbardier unit),

    CAVALRY
    Men at Arms ( Archeros)- Spanish Royal Guards ( knights - lancers),

    Jinetes light lancers - 'Celadas';

    'Herreruelo' - Spanish cuirassiers,

    Later Spanish Royal Guards ( lighter armoured, no lance),

    Later Jinetes - light cav no lance - 'Celadas';

    Spanish Dragoons,


    Royal guard infantry unit -
    'Guardia du corps' - halbard & arquebus,

    ---------------------------------also to the Dutch, HRE, English and France
    Wallon corselet,

    Wallon pikemen,

    Wallon Musketeers,

    Wallon Harquebusiers,

    ----------------------------------also to HRE, Venetia, Pope and the Knights

    Italian Corselets,

    Italian Pikemen,

    Italian Arquebusiers,

    Italian Musketeers,


    ///////France=//////////////////////////////

    Royal Swiss Pikemen,

    French Royal Foot Pikemen,

    French Royal Foot Arquebusiers,

    Enfants Perdus - skirmishing arquebusiers,

    Argoulets - better mounted arquebusiers,

    French Gendarmes,

    French Musketeers,

    ------------------->from 'high'
    French Pikemen,

    French Royal Musketeers,

    French heavy cavalry,

    French light cavalry,

    Mousquetaires du Roi - cavalry for 'late'

    //////Venetia - replaces Italian;/////

    Scapoli - venetian sailors,

    //////England=/////

    Billmen,

    Longbowmen,

    Sprinkler men,

    Demi-lancers,

    Trained Band Musketeer,

    Trained band pikemen,

    Trained band billmen

    New Model Army Pikemen,

    New Model Army Musketeers,

    'Ironsides' (Paliamentarian Cuirassiers),


    //////Danes=/////

    'Snapphanar' - guerrilla fighters for 'late';

    Danish National Cavalry in 'late'

    ///////Russia=/////


    Noble cavalry - 'Znat' cavalry - elite unit;

    'Pomestnaya Konnitsa' - basic, average cavalry;

    Mounted Streltsy - from 'high' - 'Stremenniye Streltsy';

    'Tatarskaya Konnitsa' - Tatar cavalry for Russia;

    Ryndas - mounted, but can dismount in every battle ( Tzar's bodyguard);

    - 'Ryndy'

    Kormovye Dragoons- regiments of so-called Komarits dragoons, - after military reform - like western dragoons;

    - 'Draguny'

    'Reytary' - after military reform - like western cuirassiers;

    Cossacks on the state service - 'SluzhiliyeKazaki'

    Russian hussars - copy of polish husaria ( but weaker), from 'late' - in Novgorod only

    - 'Gusary'

    Lancers - copy of polish pancerni ( but weaker), from 'late' - in Chernichov and Smolensk only;

    - 'Stremenniye Kopeyshchiki'



    Dismounted Ryndas - elite axemen;

    Russian harquebusers - 'Pishchalshchiki'

    militia ( armed crowd) - 'Opolcheniye'

    Streltsy - from 'high' - 'Streltsy'

    'Streletskiye Kopeyshchiki' - russian pikemen for 'high'

    Datochnye ( Conscripted) Gorodovye - after military reform

    pikemen and musketeers ( weaker than western infantry, but cheaper);

    - 'Datochnye Gorodovye Soldaty'
    - 'Datochnye Gorodovye Kopeyshchiki'

    - Vybranniye Soldaty
    - Vybranniye Kopeyshchiki - the units from late


    //////Ukraine - replaces Byzantine in 'late';//////

    Cossack Veteran cavalry,

    ----------------available also to Poland, Russia, Ottomans, Crimean Khanate
    Zaporozhian Cossacks musketers,

    Zaporozhian Cossacks wagon infantry,

    Cossack Sotnia - cavalry,

    ----------------also for Crimean Khanate
    UkrainianPeasants - so called 'czern',


    //////Ottoman - replaces Turkish;///////

    Kapikulu Infantries ( Yenicheri)

    Zirhli Nefer armored soldiers,

    Tüfekchi musketeers - from 'high' - Tufekchi Yenicheri;

    Okchu archers - only 'early',


    Kapikulu Cavalries ( palace cavalry)

    Sipahi Corps "KirmiziBayrak" - majority of this elite,

    Silahdar Corps "SariBayrak"- "Yellow Banner" - bodyguards,

    Garib Corps - guardians of the Prophet's Banner - 'Ashaghi Bölüks';


    'The Core' - provincional cavalry

    Timarli Sipahi heavy cavalry,

    Jebelü light cavalry,

    frontier troops

    Akinji not in 'late',

    Delil - 'Deli',

    provincional infantry
    Azebs,

    Sekbans not in 'late' - peasants,

    Tüfekchi Musketeers - from 'high' or 'late',

    Levends from 'high' - bandits,


    ---------------------------also for Hungary and future Moldavia
    -Balkan ( Serbia, Bulgaria) Voynuks heavy cav.

    -Martolos Greek Auxiliaries - musket armed, bandits,

    ----------------------------also for Hungary, HRE, Venetia and future Moldavia

    Sharp-shooter Panduks/Pandurs

    ------------------------------------also for Egypt and Crimean Khanate
    Ashirs (Syrian local militia),

    AlgerianNaval soldiers called Ta'ifat Al Ru'sa ( musket armed),

    /////Crimean Khanate - replaces Almohad/////

    Crimean Cavalry -bodyguard unit - 'Kirim Suvari';

    Tatars with arkans - 'Tatar Arkans'

    'Keffe Bekci' - small units of infantry;

    ----------------------for the Ottomans and Ukraine also
    Nogay Tatars
    - horde of poor nomads - 'Nogay Asker';

    Tatar Horsemen - 'Atli Tatarlar';

    'Kipchak Asker';

    ----------------------------------for the Ottomans, Poland, Ukraine and Russia

    Tatar Scouts - 'Izci Tatarlar';

    /////Austria or Hapsburg HRE - replaces German HRE;///////

    Croat Light Cavalry
    - lance, broadsword, pistols, cuirass helmet

    Empire Reiters,

    Rondartschiere,

    Verlorne Haufe,

    Empire Cuirassiers,

    Bavarian Black Cuirassiers - for now available to the HRE in Bavaria only, but after Bavaria is added only the Bavarian faction will get this unit,

    ------------------units also for all future german factions
    German Pikemen 'Pikeniere'

    German Musketeers 'Musketiere'


    /////Sweden - replaces Novgorod;/////

    Dalkarlar (early) - infantry;

    Svennar elite infantry for 'early';

    Hakkapeliitta cavalry,

    Smalands cavalry - 'Smaland ryttare';

    Swedish Cuirassiers - 'Upplands ryttare';

    Swedish Pikemen, - 'Pikenerare'

    Swedish Musketeers, - 'Musketerare'

    Swedish Dragoons, - 'Dragoner'

    Swedish 'commanded' musketeers - smaller units, the same textures though.

    - 'Kommanderade musketörer'

    'Fänika' - royal bodyguards in early/high, halberdiers;

    Kungliga Maj:ts garde och livregemente - bodyguards for 'late' - infantry,



    /////Portugal - replaces Aragon;/////

    Portuguese Light Pikeman - 'Piqueiro Ligeiro' ( from 'late'),

    Portuguese Sailors - 'Marinheiro',

    Goese Camel Arquebusiers - 'Arcabuzeiro a camelo de Goa',



    //////Egypt - only in 'early';//////

    Mamluk Horse Archers,

    Mamluk Arquebusiers,

    Egyptian Camel Guns,

    -----------------------------also for the Ottomans and Crimean Khanate
    Mamluk Cavalry,

    Saharan Cavalry,

    Beduin Camel Warriors,

    Muslim feudal levy - peasant militia

    ///////////Dutch/////////////

    Dutch Pikemen - 'Piekeniers'

    Dutch Musketeers, - 'Musketiers'

    Roundshield Pikemen for 'high' (bodyguards).

    Dutch Reiters - 'Ghemeijn ruyteren';

    Dutch Cuirassiers - 'Gheappoicteerde curassiers';


    /////The Knights of St. John - replaces Sicilian;//////

    Order militia - firearms, high morale;

    //////Pope - not playable;//////

    //////Swiss///////

    Swiss Armoured Pikemen,

    --------------------------also available to France and Pope
    Swiss Pikemen,

    Swiss Halbardiers,

    ////////Georgia - INSTEAD of the Golden Horde///////////////////


    Speramen Mkhedrebi - cavalry - 'Shubosani Mkhedrebi'

    Elite Mkhedrebi - This is the royal unit - 'Elite Mkhedrebi'

    Infantry:

    Georgian Foot Warriors, - 'KveitiMeomrebi'

    Georgian Riflemen, - 'Metopheni'

    Georgian Mountainers, - 'Mtiulebi'

    Aragvian Warriors, - 'Aragvlebi'




    additional factions - not in the first release, though;

    ///////Saxony///////

    Saxony LifeGuard,

    ///////Scotland///////

    Montrose's musketeers -------> FOR NOW for England and France in 'late'

    Highland Clansmen -----------regional unit untill this faction is added

    -------------------------------------buildable mercenaries in Germany, and Baltic provinces
    Scottish Archers ( mercenaries),

    Scottish Pikemen,
    - also mercenaries.
    Scottish Musketeers,


    //////Moldavia - in 'early' only///////

    --------------------------------except Calarisi all the units are available to Hungary

    Oastea Mica Boyars - medium/heavy bodyguard cavalry armed with bows and lances,

    Oastea Mica Viteji - Retainers, light cavalry with compound bows and spears,

    Calarisi - elite infantry with bows, will be able to hide everywhere,

    ----------------------------regional units

    Oastea Mare Cavalry - rather mounted infantry than cavalry, but cheap and able to dismount every time to -

    Razesi - ordinary infantry armed with compound bows and swords,

    available as regional units in Moldavia and Carpathia

    Wallachian Cavalry
    - will be able to dismount into Calarisi in open battles ( to make it really useful).

    regional unit in Wallachia

    //////Navarre////////

    ///////Florence///////

    ////////Genoa///////

    /////Brandenburg///////

    //////Bavaria/////////


    ARTILLERY

    CANNONS - less time to build.

    Serpentine,

    Demi-Culverin,

    Culverin,

    Organ gun,

    Mortar - bigger range, more powerful shot;

    Siege Cannon - from present Cannon, but more powerful shot - from 'high';

    Regimental Cannon - movable, from 'high', cheaper for Sweden;

    Mercenary Artillery - buildable mercenaries from 'high' - useful especially for the Tatars.


    SHIPS - generally 2 years construction time, not available everywhere, some kind of homelands for the ships, some of the ships unavailable to some factions e.g. Ottomans shouldn't use anything apart from galleys.

    Caravel - faction adventage to Portugal, to high;

    Carrack - to high only, cheaper for Portugal;

    Italian Merchant Ship - high defence, weak attack, for Venetia ( and Genoa when added) only, 1 year build. time, early only;

    Galeon - cheaper for Spain, high+, powerful but slow;

    Frigate - faction adventage to the Netherlands, fast and good;

    Galley - cheaper to the Ottomans;

    Galeas - cheaper for the Knights of St. John;

    Corsair Ship - cheaper for England, simple to build ( port + merchant)

    Ship of the Line - from late;

    Cossack 'Chajka' ( coudn't find suitable translation), fast and with strong attack ( weak defence), regional ship type in Kiev, Moldavia and Khazar;


    AGENTS ( 'welcome Mr.Anderson...');

    Emissary - 2 years time production time;

    Venetian Envoy - venetian emissary - simplier to build ( lower requirements and 1 year prod. time);

    Spy - more expensive than today, but should be more useful;

    Assassin - as above;

    Catholic Bishop - small converting ability;

    Orthodox Priest - medium conv. ability, affects zeal;

    Protestant Preacher - high converting power, affects zeal;

    Jesuit - from 'high', high conv. ability, affects zeal;

    Inquisitor - only for some countries;

    Papal Legate - for Pope only, replaces Cardinal;

    Mullah/Ulama/Mufti/Whatever named - medium conv. ability, affecting zeal as well;


    Hetman

  5. #515
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    I started testing all this - my ( no new graphics) instal version takes 25 mega.

    I'll read the text of the italians and maybe add one unit for them.

    Hetman reborn

  6. #516
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Zoo Keeper Champion, Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion, Alien Commander Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    'Snapphanar' for Danemark in 'late', in Norway only ( there is no Scania yet). These guys will have rather low morale, would hide in the open in 50 men units, armed with muskets ( quite accurate type - they were marksmen after all).
    They will in addition affect protestant zeal.

    'Fänika'

    OK, they are in.
    Available in 'early' and 'high' and also will be Swedish royal bodyguards at this time.
    In 'late' they were like police, so could be replaced with ordinary urban militia.
    I think it is the best solution.

    In addition they will replace Drabanterna, which is removed ( not enough info about them).
    Snapphanar is should be aviable in high too, really annoying units for the Swedes and to add that Sweden took Scania in 1658.

    I was half-done with my descriptions when I had to re-format my harddrive so I got somewhat fed up.

    Here's some info about Drabanterna and Kungliga Maj:ts garde och livregemente (the name and unit change is to represent the change from a weak Swedish army to a very strong one´, the only difference is that they are reformed).

    Garde du Corps was in the 16th century the title of princely lifeguard. During the Swedish Liberation War in the beginning of the 16th century, King Gustav Vasa used a personal lifeguard from the province of Dalarna.
    Gustav Vasa kept the Life Guard even after he was elected King of Sweden in 1523. The lifeguards was organized into a corps - Garde du Corps (Drabantkår). The duty of the Corps was to act as a personal lifeguard for the King and as a guard of the royal castle. See also "Svea Life Guards" above.
    In the beginning of the 17th century the Corps carried the name " His Majesty's Garde du Corps" (Kungliga Majestäts Drabanter).

    In 1649 the regiment carried the name His Majesty's Guard and Life Regiment (Kungliga Maj:ts garde och livregemente)

    I think this info can directly be used in the earlier time but I'm not sure if he's talking only about the reform 1699.
    The Life Guards was not an allotted regiment but an enlisted regiment (värvat regemente). Both the officers and the soldiers had cash wages paid by the Crown. The Life Guards was an elite unit and His Majesty's own Guard.
    They were a well trained and disciplined unit and the officers very skilled. The officers from the Guards were often appointed to the provincial regiments as instructors.
    Hereby the Life Guards also acted as an officer's training ground before the War Academy was founded.
    Every soldier in King XII:s Garde du Corps had the rank of an officer. The Corps numbered about 200 men. The soldiers and officers had all been recommended for bravery in other regiments before they were enrolled in the Corps.
    The Garde du Corps was an elite unit. Their duty was to protect the King in battle and was under the personal command of the King.

    I think bardisaner (this word exists in Eng?) is a good weapon for early and high (got a hit on this in a dictionary). It seems to been a shorter pike (3 m) with a larger blade. Officers in the Swedish army also used spontoner and halvpikar (half-pikes) and they are longer than a halb but shorter then a pike, but seems to have a bigger blade. I would guess it's a cross between halbs and pikes.

    This is the only pic on the blade I could find and it's a French one. And that is because I found the French word (pertuisane) in a old (around 1920) dictionary on the net.

    Svennar is equal to knights, but has a history about the name, knight=riddare on Swedish in the normal case.
    Last edited by Ironside; 08-06-2004 at 09:47.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  7. #517
    Grand Dude Member Dead Moroz's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    Officers in the Swedish army also used spontoner and halvpikar (half-pikes) and they are longer than a halb but shorter then a pike, but seems to have a bigger blade. I would guess it's a cross between halbs and pikes.
    This is the only pic on the blade I could find and it's a French one. And that is because I found the French word (pertuisane) in a old (around 1920) dictionary on the net.
    This pic is better



    This weapon is called "protazan" in Russian. Officers and some royal bodyguards were armed with it.

  8. #518
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Zoo Keeper Champion, Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion, Alien Commander Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Yes much better pics

    "protazan"
    "pertuisane"
    See a connection?
    I wonder how that became "bardisan" on Swedish though.

    And about the Svennar, thier name came from that because the Kalmar Union (1397) hadn't officially ended and because of that Sweden didn't officially have a king. And only kings can knight people. So instead they called the people that should be knighted for Svennar instead. The Kalmar union ended officially 1523, but then we started to have reforms in the military.
    Last edited by Ironside; 08-06-2004 at 13:59.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

    Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
    Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
    TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED

  9. #519
    Grand Dude Member Dead Moroz's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    "protazan"
    "pertuisane"
    See a connection?
    I wonder how that became "bardisan" on Swedish though.
    Yes, no doubt this word came in Russian language from French or German. There was also other old name of this weapon - "partazan" - which closer to French/German word.

    About "bardisan" I think it may be loan word from Russian. Our streltsy (riflemen) were armed by "berdysh" - special smaller kind of halberd they used as a pedestal for rifle and as cold steel in hand-to-hand combat.
    Last edited by Dead Moroz; 08-06-2004 at 10:44.

  10. #520
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    I've read the text about italian armies add couldn't find anything really interesting.
    But in future I can add some kind of militia ( we will see).

    When it comes to the Bundschuh - it is very good idea of additional faction.
    They could get the lighter type of warwagon, actually they should and they will, but rather not now.

    "We are going to have war wagons? Very interesting to imagine what it would look like? Will those be able to stop cavalry or going to be as vulnerable as usual artillery"

    Pikemen with fast shooting gunpowder weapon. This means their fire will
    be devastating to enemy's morale although not very efficient when it comes to enemy casualities.
    This weapon is represented with organ gun model ( I can change this).
    Next they are impossible to move until the gun is destroyed and will move very slowly after this.
    Stats- extremly good in defending vs. cavalry and vulnerable to enemy's infantry.
    At this moment there are two such units - Cossack wagons and Polish/Hungarian/Russian war wagons (weaker then the above ones) + we could add the light wagons for the peasants ( after I finally implement all the units I have on the list).

    I TRIED to remove Crusades and Jihad from the unit file, but it resulted in CTD after the first turn, actually I don't remeber any mod where the two were removed, although in several these do not appear, but because they are made unplayable so still take unit slots.

    ONE THING TO ADD - we can use some graphics from NTW - I have the official permission !
    I requeste for basic line infantry/grenadiers textures and for 1 type of movable cannon ( for granade-shooting regimental guns).

    Regards Cegorach/Hetman

  11. #521
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    NEW IDEA

    Special abilities ( i.e. not visable presently) for units will be seen in unit descriptions in the production panel.

    The first list of these abilities:

    'No retreat' - very high morale which makes some units very hard to break. Presently for All Swiss units including French Royal Swiss Pikemen.

    'To the death' - extremely high morale which means that a unit fights to the death. Presently Spanish 8 men bodyguards, slow-moving halbardiers called 'Maestre de Campo'.

    'Good vs. pikemen' - cavalry which is able to successfully fight vs. enemy pikemen. Presently Polish Husaria.

    'Heavy cavalry killers' - cavalry which is extremly efficient in killing enemy heavy cavalry. Presently Tatars with arkans.

    'Invulnerable to cavalry's charge' - some units of musketeers used so small number of pikemen that it is useless to create them for the mod as additional units, some others were using different methods to fight enemy horsemen.
    These units will get advantage vs cavalry and will be completely invulnerable to charges, but slightly weaker in fighting enemy pikemen.
    Presently - Polish 'Piechota wybraniecka' and Scottish Montrose's musketeers.

    'Spread Catholic/Protestant/Muslim/Orthodox/heretic beliefs/religion'

    Some units will affect local beliefs as priests do presently.

    Presently - catholic - all 'core' Spanish infantry,

    - protestant - english new model army units,
    - Bohemian musketeers,
    - Millers,

    - heretic - Snapphanar,

    I can easily implement this ability or any other, so if You have any proposals I can immediately implement them.

    UNSCALABLE UNIT SIZE

    It seems that AI likes to produce the most expensive units so armies made from elite units without any core units will appear too often.
    I decided for the sake of balance that the best possible solution is to make all units in the mod unscalable i.e. these will have the same numbers all the time - from 8 - 12 men command units to 200 men hordes.
    Of course it means that these will cost similar amount of cash so unit production preferences ( in unit data) will be more useful and will affect AI preferences more.
    Of course this means a lot of more work to balance mod factions, but why not ?
    Moreover the preferred unit setting hould be 'huge' because this way AI will compose more balanced armies and there will be more huge battles.



    Regards The-Man-Who-Was-Hetman

  12. #522
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    I don't like two of those skills:
    'Heavy cavalry killers' and 'Invulnerable to cavalry's charge'. At least the second skill overpowers a unit in my opinion (what about higher defence values to reflect the pikes ?) but playtesting will show.

    Some proposals for units (to have some more faction balancing options):
    Carroccio (Pl. Carroccios)
    An interesting feature of the medieval armies of the Italian states, which survived through the 15th Century, the Carroccio was a very large flat wagon, brilliantly painted, draped in scarlet, and bearing an altar and a mast (which could have a cross-spar like that of a ship) from which hung the civic banners and other decorations. Drawn on the battlefield by a team of white oxen, the Carroccio would have a picked guard for its defense, and acted as center, rallying-point, and mobile headquarters for the giving of trumpet signals and the like.
    from: 'Renaissance Armies: The Italians' article by George Gush
    and
    Mainly used in Italian armies in Feudal times. The carroccio was a painted, ox-drawn wagon consisting of a rectangular wooden platform supporting an altar and a mast, from which a standard flew. Some carroccios held armed troops, others were protected guards of mounted knights. Since its loss, and especially its standard, was considered a grevious dishonour and humiliation it was always accompanied to battle by an elite guard unit, usually infantry.
    from: 'Armies of Feudal Europe 1066 - 1300', Ian Heath, WRG Publication
    picture
    picture

    Italian Gendarme
    Italian gendarmes were well armoured and equipped, with lances longer but perhaps more fragile than those of the French, an axe being the favorite secondary weapon. They were well mounted too, the Italians having pioneered the scientific breeding of war-horses, and man for man were to prove a match for the French, though much less effective when in formed bodies. As in other armies, they were counted in lances, including the man-at-arms, a "sergeant" or more lightly equipped cavalryman, and a page. In the later 15th Century there could be as many as four, or in Papal service five, men in a lance, but it is likely that there would still only be two combatants.
    from: 'Renaissance Armies: The Italians' article by George Gush

    Lanze Spezzate (aka broken lances)
    By the 1480s, two-thirds of the cavalry of Milan were of these types rather than condottieri-controlled.
    from: 'Renaissance Armies: The Italians' article by George Gush
    Generalli the new permanently employed Horseman was know as a 'Lanze Spezzate' or 'broken lance' and stemmed from the fact that many of the first had either deserted from 'Condottieri' company or came from those whose leader had died : they were common in most italian Armies
    They were heavy Men-at-arms that continued to use old cavalry tactics consisting of repeated frontal charges

    from: Angelnessuno in this thread of the Two Crowns mod.
    As far as I could find out they've been rather demi-lances than heavy armoured gendarmes as Angelnessuno mentioned. They've been used in all italian states.

    Band Nere (aka Black Band)
    The most famous of these mercenaries, and indeed one of the Elite forces of the later Italian wars, was the Bande Nere (Black Band) of Giovanni de Medici. Typically, this consisted of about 300 mounted and 3,000 foot arquebusiers (some of the latter may have been provided with poor mounts to turn them into an early species of dragoon or mounted infantryman). Few if any had pikes. (The name is often said to have been derived from black mourning bands or sashes worn by these mercenaries after the death of Pope Leo X, but this sounds a little like a rationalization for a name which was very widely used of mercenary groups at this time.)
    from: 'Renaissance Armies: The Italians' article by George Gush
    The house of Medici was ruling in Tuscany and Florence (Duke of Florence 1531) in the early 16th century so in my opinion the unit should not be available as mercenaries. The Italians (Medicis only, if it is planned to include Florence/Tuscany) and the French (fought together with the Medicis in the Italian wars) should be able to build them in Tuscany only.

    Additional informations on other units:
    The Plural of Stradiot is Stradiotti in Italian.

    Scapoli (aka 'huomini di spada', literally 'men of sword' i think)
    In essence, we are primarily concerned here with the size and ‘weight’ of the specialized fighting complements carried by the galleys of the various Mediterranean nations. Without going into too much detail, these differences can be roughly summed up as follows: the galleys of the Knights of St John of Malta (we know little about the manning of their galleys before expulsion from Rhodes) carried a higher proportion of armored fighting men, men who were also as a rule individually more heavily armed and armored than their adversaries, than any others. Next in the shock power of their fighting complements came the Spanish galleys and those of the Papal States. Genoese galleys in the Spanish service, at least during the second half of the sixteenth century, seem to have carried almost as many armored fighting men as their Spanish opposites, at least when Spanish infantry was embarked; but the picture is unclear. The fighting complements of Venetian galleys included a thin crust of armored Venetian nobles, men who were as heavily armed and armored and who fought every bit as well as their Spanish and Maltese opposites. However, most of the specialized fighting men aboard Venetian galleys, the huomini di spada, or scapoli, were lightly armed Dalmatians and Greek or Albanian mercenaries. Relatively few such specialized fighting men were carried by western standards. This was partially compensated for by the fact that Venetian ciurmi went armed and fought as free men. Though apparently larger, at least on major campaigns, the specialized fighting complements of Ottoman galleys, ‘azabs, sipahis and Janissaries, were somewhat more lightly armed with respect to edged weapons and more lightly armored than their Venetian opponents. Clearly, few Muslim fighting men — if any — wore even partial suits of plate armor. Christian nobles, gentlemen adventurers and many ordinary fighting men habitually did so.7 Once again, this was compensated for in part by the presence of at least some armed free oarsmen on Ottoman galleys, particularly aboard flagships. Finally, the provision of fighting men aboard the galleys of the North African ghazi states seems to have roughly paralleled Ottoman practice, a somewhat artificial point in view of the North African preference for smaller raiding craft rowed largely by free men.
    from: The weapons of sixteenth century warfare at sea
    Ciurmi means oarsmen in my opinion.
    other interesting articles from that site:
    The Tactics of the Battle of Lepanto Clarified
    The Galley in Combat
    Caravels and Carracks

    The spanish Rodeleros seems be to equal to the imperial Rondartschiers, just simple armoured men-at-arms on foot (sword and buckler). Let's reduce it to one unit, they could be the dismounted form of jinets and demi-lances also.

    Alex

    P.S. I can post in here ???
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  13. #523
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    Wink Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach1
    ./. I TRIED to remove Crusades and Jihad from the unit file, but it resulted in CTD after the first turn, actually I don't remeber any mod where the two were removed, although in several these do not appear, but because they are made unplayable so still take unit slots. ./.
    I tried myself hoping that it's because a reference in another file needed to be removed also (in the units and buildings files i removed all references and i changed the faction behaviour of all crusaders to non-crusader) but i failed.
    There's another option:

    These are the mounts that are possible for cavalry units by default. I think we don't need all of them and they are also blocking unit slots. I have removed them sucessfully, looks a little bit strange to see chivalric knights on LiHorses but it works (delete the entry in the units file and change the mount of every affected unit to another mount).
    Most units will use LiHorse in the mod, Ottoman Sisaphi (and some eastern faction units) use the EHorse and the Gendarmes use the ArmHorse - the KHorse is not needed any longer. If we don't include the portuguese Goa troops we also didn't need the camel.

    Another unit proposal:
    Geus (Pl. Geuzen, aka Dutch Sea Beggars)
    These are dutch privateers during the 80 years war, they fought mostly on sea but have been used on land warfare also.
    Undisciplined but fericious fighting mix between pirates and patriotic independence fighters.
    Gueux [Fr.,=beggars], 16th-century Dutch revolutionary party. In 1566 more than 2,000 Dutch and Flemish nobles and burghers (both Protestants and Roman Catholics) signed a document 'the so-called Compromise of Breda' by which they bound themselves in solemn oath to resist the curtailment of liberties imposed by the Spanish government in the Netherlands. The document was drafted chiefly by Philip van Marnix. Its radical tone displeased the great nobles; on the advice of William the Silent the original wording was considerably toned down when, in the same year, a petition on behalf of the signers of the compromise was presented to the Spanish regent, Margaret of Parma. Margaret's adviser, Barlaymont, referred to the petitioners as “these beggars,” whereupon the revolutionary party adopted both the sobriquet and the insignia of beggars. The “Beggars of the Sea” (Fr. Gueux de la mer) were crews of patriotic privateers first chartered in 1569 by William the Silent to harass Spanish shipping. Their most notable action was the raising of the siege of Leiden (1574). Their activity marked the beginning of Dutch sea power.
    from: The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, Columbia University Press
    additional infos
    additional infos

    Alex
    Last edited by AlexPeters; 08-17-2004 at 07:53.
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  14. #524
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Plenty of reading Alex, I will answer later.

    I removed Khorse and Ehorse and I think it should be enough - we have 3 units on camels, and similar number on armoured horses.

    At this moment we have to spare slots - I didn't implement Wallon Arquebusiers and Italian Musketeers ( the rest of italian infantry will be similar to Condotierri mercenaries.)

    Regards Cegorach/Hetman

  15. #525
    Grand Dude Member Dead Moroz's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    There are portraits for Russians.

    First, Russian kings:



    Other pictures for kings:


    Photoshop file - tsars.rar, 836 Kb

    Pictures for generals, emissaries, etc.:


    Photoshop file - generals.rar, 779 Kb

    Pictures for Orthodox priests:


    Photoshop file - priests.rar, 486 Kb

    Female portrait was very rare in Russian art of XVI-XVII centuries. I found only 4 useful images. So I think we can use later images for princesses portraits.


    Photoshop file - princesses.rar, 421 Kb

  16. #526
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    IRONSIDE

    Snapphanar will be available in 'high', as You have proposed.

    Next - so should I rename the Fanika to "Kungliga Majestäts Drabanter"?

    I think that I should use something different for the bodyguards in late than some half-pikes/whatever wielding soldiers.
    For late I gave Sweden 'Kungliga Maj:ts garde och livregemente' as bodyguards - very good MUSKETEERS to give the Swedish much necessary boost in this period.
    What do You think about this ?

    ALEX

    'Invulnerable to cavalry's charge' means that the unit will avoid the full power of enemy's charge ( there are charge and melee attack values) - simply the charge value won't work at all, instead melee will be used. These units will get small bonus in defending vs cavalry but will be still vulnerable to enemy cavalry.

    For the last 2 slots ( unless I remove something e.g. 2 from 3 Wallon units)
    we could use two of these -

    Carroccios - as very slow, but powerful halbardiers/pikemen;

    Lanze Spezzate - as italian demi-lances;

    Band Nere - as very good arquebusiers with 'invulnerable to cav's charge ability' ( small number of pikes);

    OR Geuzen - as Dutch skirmishing musketeers ( ?) with decent melee;

    ABout creating only one type of sword & buckler - well if the Rondartschiers didn't fight in 'high' it can be done.

    BTW - were there any italian or french sword & buckler, if yes I find it more justified to create only one unit of these swordsmen.

    Regards Cegorach/Hetman

    P.S. Well done Dead Moroz !!

  17. #527
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    Wink Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Good job on those portraits Dead Moroz, keep it up

    @ cegorch:
    'Invulnerable to cavalry's charge' - well, then i've been wrong, i didn't know that it's only the charge that will be ignored.

    Regarding the unit proposals: Don't get me wrong - they're meant to be proposals only. They're aren't the holy grail and should be options.

    The Carroccios:
    They could be removed, because i can't find evidence that they've been used in the 16th century. It would be a very small unit (a general's bodyguard) that becomes obsolete in high - not usable i think.

    Sword and Buckler units:
    I don't know much about the Rondartschiers (Rondart=round shield) but taking the game Cossaks as a 'reference' they've been used at least throughout all periods of our mod.
    The difference between the sword and buckler units of all factions seems to be the skill only (spanish swordsmen are simply the best, far superior to all others).
    They are flexible assault/shock troops on foot meant to be used as an offensive weapon in punctual attacks, disrupting and breaking enemy formations. We've got Landsknecht Doppelsoldner, Gallowglasses and the Verlorne Haufe that also fit in this description.
    The Sword and Buckler, the Doppelsoldner and the Gallowglasses are armoured. All of them - if i'm right - are not available in late.
    Does that mean that there has been a total change in tactics or are the replaced by another type of unit ? I think it's a change in tactics, cavalry with 'cold steel', dragoons, artillery, grenadiers and sharpshooters are used to break/disrupt formations. The Rondartschiers are kind of an anachronism then, but this is a tactical advantage for the HRE (and/or Austria, Bavaria).

    To answer the question whether there've been sword and buckler units in other factions armies:
    Yes, but mostly not as seperate units i assume. In the article that deals with the Scapoli the author decribes the fleets of the spanish,the knights of St. John, the papacy, genoa and venice. All of them had contingents of armoured swordsmen (with bucklers i think or fighting main-gauche) on their ships. I assume this was common pratice in all western nations.
    A dismounted armoured rider is at least an armoured swordsman, border reivers, demi-lances and some other units used bucklers so they'll turn into armoured sword and buckler units if they dismount. The knights of St. John fought as foot knights with bucklers.
    The Tercios del Mar also had men that fought that way and they were used in the armada campaign (it's in the high period of the mod).

    Conclusion:
    I think we'll need two versions, one for the spanish (higher skills, availability ?) and another one for the other factions, buildable (with port only ?) for the HRE (Austria, Bavaria) and the Knights of St. John (faction advantage ? or they get access to the spanish version instead) only. Italian factions, the Papacy, France, England, Portugal can use them if they dismount units. The Nordic Countries, Poland and Holland (they could get the Sea Beggars instead) shouldn't get them.

    Alex

    P.S.
    Band Nere:
    They could be early dragoons (mounted arquebusiers that are able to dismount not only during sieges), - as billmen are early halberdiers in MTW - it would be a tactical advantage. They hadn't pikes, i assume their mobility and firepower makes them that feared.
    Sea Beggars:
    The cover of Osprey's 'Elizabethan Sea Dogs' shows some of the troops that were used on ships in that era. Most of them will be unarmoured and armed with sword and a distance weapon (arquebuse or crossbow).
    Main-Gauche:
    In fencing, the main-gauche was a dagger used in the off-hand, mainly to assist in parrying. It is rarely used today, as it was discovered that fencing with only the primary weapon allowed for greater balance and a stance offering a smaller target area. Its name is taken from the French language, literally meaning "left hand".
    from: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Main-gauche
    Last edited by AlexPeters; 08-10-2004 at 17:10.
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  18. #528
    Member Member ThijsP's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    About the Sea beggers as you call them. They are really should be called watergeuzen.

    They were Calvanist fanatics and only fought against Catholic spain and Dutch Catholics. Eventualy they lost there influence when the Dutch states were organised. I dont't know the exact dat but it will be around 1600. Don't know if they fit in that in the 'High' period.

    BTW are grenadiers actually in the timeframe?
    Last edited by ThijsP; 08-10-2004 at 21:23.

  19. #529
    Flying Dutchman Member Ellesthyan's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    That unit roster looks fantastic! May I ask how far you've progressed beyond talking?

    Watergeuzen should be the name of the "sea beggars", or the french name. Calling in that english way is almost an insult... Although they did deserve it.

    The Watergeuzen were a large group of pirates, formed of bandits, protestants, and fled people. They had their base first in England, were they hunted on Spanish ships. However, when queen Elizabeth found it too dangerous to get in a conflict with Spain, she closed her doors and the Dutch pirates sought a new base. They found Den Brielle, a fortress-city close to modern Rotterdam. Although initially having nothing to do with William the Silent and his rebellion, they over time accepted to be taken up in the Dutch army. They were very active in Sealand and Holland, liberating dozens of cities and defeating all the fleets Spain sent against them.

    Their troops were mainly pirates, but as the siege of Den Brielle proved the Gueux had formed an effective army. Unruly and fanatic, they hang up 13 catholic monks in Gorcum and were one of the most important drives behind the mass execution and discrimination of catholics by the calvinists. After their main leader, admiral Lumey, was fired after executing a close friend of William the Silent, the Gueux graduately lost their status and became a regular part of the Dutch armies.

  20. #530
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    Wink Re: XVI -XVII mod

    .. don't kill me. I used the term 'Sea Beggars' only because it was easier to remember. If you look at the first post i suggested to call them Geus/Geuzen but Watergeus (?) (Pl. Watergeuzen) sounds even better.

    I'm making portraits at the moment and some dutch stadtholders are missing (colored paintings preferred):
    Johan de Witt (1625-1672, i've got a woodcut of him and his brother only)
    Simon van Slingerlandt (1664-1736)

    Some famous generals with full names and dates are also needed (i've got pics of Amiral Michel Adrien Ruyter, Amiral Lumey and Amiral Cornelis Tromp)

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    Alex
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  21. #531
    Flying Dutchman Member Ellesthyan's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    It's 1 am, but I can't let this pass! I'll do my best.

    watergeus/watergeuzen will do. Im sorry, I missed that suggestion earlier
    A.E.I.O.U.

    Austria Est Imperare Orbi Universo
    Austria is destined to rule the world.

    (Or, as the Prussians interpretated it:
    Austria Erit In Orbe Ultima
    Austria will one day be lowest in the world.)

    Österreich über alles!

  22. #532
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    I have many Dutch ship names should you need them.

  23. #533
    Flying Dutchman Member Ellesthyan's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

    I HATE VBULLETIN!

    Anyway, lost about 10 portraits I've found, in color, including Johan de Witt.

    I'll continue tomorow.
    A.E.I.O.U.

    Austria Est Imperare Orbi Universo
    Austria is destined to rule the world.

    (Or, as the Prussians interpretated it:
    Austria Erit In Orbe Ultima
    Austria will one day be lowest in the world.)

    Österreich über alles!

  24. #534
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Hi BKB,

    it might be a dumb question, but why do i need names of ships ? Because they used names of famous dutch or is it possible to name ships... ?
    I thought they called them 'Staten-General', 'Gouden Leeuw'...

    Alex

    P.S:
    @ all
    By the way: Dutch heroes, if you aren't able to find pictures, tell me the name and a little description of his deeds at least, i've got a bunch of named pics and don't know everyone maybe i've got a pic already.
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  25. #535
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Sorry mate i mean the type, like the Dutch hell raisers(fireships), the cromster, a good type of trading vessell and alot more for some of the other countries but you might have this info already

  26. #536
    Member Member AlexPeters's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: XVI -XVII mod

    I'm sorry BKB, as far as i know, we haven't got free slots for that. If you take a look at the rooster on the top of this page you'll notice that the ship types are mostly generic (you can see some tests for info pics on my pages also).
    But if you like - i'd be interested in knowing more about those special dutch types beside this mod. I've never heard about the hell raisers(fireships) for example.

    Alex

    P.S. ... but every pic that could be used for ship graphics is much appreciated (e.g. galeas, ottoman galley if there's a difference to the western style).
    Last edited by AlexPeters; 08-11-2004 at 01:21.
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  27. #537
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    As the dutch couldn't really deal with the spanish army they would send small fleets of fireships to bring down the pontoon bridges of the spanish army.

    Best example was the schelde pontoon bridge being brought down and blowing up 800 spanish soldiers inder the duke of parma's angered eyes.

    They were not really important though mate, more interested in playing your mod anyway instead of info thats not really needed.

    Any ideas of a beta release?

  28. #538
    Member Member datreus's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    This sounds fantastic! Can't wait for a beta release. On a completely unrelated note, WHATS WITH ALL THE CEGORACHS? hehe, been using that as an address/nick for years, never seen any others and suddenly they pop up everywhere?? Well you share an interest in the Golden Age of Poland so you're alright by me To anyone reading this thread - if you haven't seen Ogniem i Mieczem (with fire and sword), do so immediately. If you don't speak Polish, check for a Polish-language video/dvd store (such as http://www.misiu.com.au/) and order a copy post haste!

  29. #539
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    Datreus

    I'm using Cegorach as soon as I started using e-mails.
    I believe we both like the Eldar

    Regards Cegorach/Hetman

  30. #540
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: XVI -XVII mod

    [QUOTE=Ellesthyan]That unit roster looks fantastic! May I ask how far you've progressed beyond talking?

    I'm doing my part. Alex is doing his, that's fine.

    When it comes to me I've implemented all the units from the unit roster and even sent 1 pre-release version for testing.
    Preparing something like this mod is really quite a large piece of work m8 !

    regards Cegorach/Hetman ~:p

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