XVI -XVII mod

[Eastside Character]

Hello Hetman,

Nice to see the mod is progressing

As for that Polish Winged Hussar, I think it'd be better called just Husaria, it's more distinctive. And I believe they really don't need that armor piercing ability with all their other bonuses, they should be the strongest heavy cavalry tho.


As for unit ideas, well I think you may have thought about some of them yourself:

Wybraniecka Infantry


period: high (and maybe also late, I'm not sure)
faction: Polish;
a kind of militia unit
- size - 80-100

feats;
- charge 4
- attack 2
- defence 1
- morale 2
- armor 2
- bonus attacking cavalry 1
- available preferably only in: Poland, Volhynia, Prussia, Livonia, Lithuania, Smolensk

Pancerni


faction: Polish;
a kind of strong, armored cavalry archer
- size - at least 40

period: all periods, but their building requirement shouldnt make them easy to get at the beginning of the early campaign I think
feats;
- charge 4
- attack 2
- defence 4
- morale 6
- armor 4
- armor piercing weapon
- preferably less arrows than regular cavalry archer units
- available preferably only in: Poland, Livonia, Volhynia, Kiev, Moldavia

Petryhorcy


faction: Polish
really Pancerni with lances, but due to the fact that Petryhorcy used those lances, bows were of no use most of the time, and were part of equipment, but not often used in battle
- size - 40

period: all periods, similar restrains as for Pancerni
feats;
- charge 6
- attack 3
- defence 4
- morale 6
- armor 4
- available preferably only in: Lithuania, Smolensk, Livonia, Chernigov, Kiev

Zaporohian Infantry


faction: Russian, Cossacks(if there will be such faction), Polish; Russians and Cossacks should get faction bonuses for this unit, or it could be their exclusive unit even I believe
a strong spear or pike unit
size - 100 or more

period: high and late
feats;
- charge 8
- attack 2
- defence 6
- morale 4
- armor 2
- bonus defending against cav. 4
- bonus attacking cav 2
- available preferably only in Kiev and Pereyaslavl

Cossack Sotnia Cavalry


faction: Russian, Cossacks, Polish, Crimean Tartars
a large cavalry unit, not very strong but fast and with decent morale
size - 100 (that must be if its Sotnia)

period: high and late
feats;
- charge 3
- attack 3
- defence 1
- morale 4
- armor 2
- fast
- available preferably in: Kiev, Chernigov, Pereyaslavl, Smolensk, Khazar, Ryazan

Dragoni Cavalry


faction: Polish
a light cav. unit
size - 40

period: high and late
feats;
- charge 4
- attack 2
- defence 3
- morale 4
- armor 2
- fast
- available preferably in: Poland, Volhynia, Lithuania, Moldavia, Kiev, Livonia, Prussia

Lisowczycy


faction: all factions, should be bound to the provinces not factions I believe, as it was hisorically created as a mercenary force
fast light cav.
size - 40

period: high only
feats;
- charge 4
- attack 4
- defence 2
- morale 4
- armor 2
- available preferably in: Moldavia, Carpathia, Wallachia, Kiev, Bulgaria

Semen Cavalry


faction: Russian, Cossacks
light cav.
size - 60

period: high and late
feats;
- charge 3
- attack 2
- defence 0
- morale 2
- armor 2
- available preferably in: Kiev, Pereyaslavl, Crimea, Chernigov, Ryazan, Muscovy


So, those are some of my ideas ( I have more ideas for units, but I'm tired of writing so much right now), I think I could help with other things as well.

About Husaria once more, I think I know how we could relatively easy give them their famous wings - provide them with shield attached to their back, and looking like the wings they had, the only problem (as for myself) would be appropriate coordinates for those wings...
But there are guys here who'd know how to make it work, hope they'll help. And I'm sure it is possible, only that you need good coordinates (well and make nice image in unit BIF file obviously).

Regards,
EC

[SwordsMaster]

just a thought, maybe the dragoni should have a lil higher defence and attack, but a lil lower charge...after all tey were infantry on horseback.

[Trax]

Quote[/b] ]And for France I think you should include the Royal Musketeer as the late `best´musketeer unit... I have to think about the stats tho..

Good idea an elite cavalry unit, which can dismount into good infantry too (for sieges).
And then we could have d´Artagnan as an hero

[Eastside Character]

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ May 10 2004,18:42)]just a thought, maybe the dragoni should have a lil higher defence and attack, but a lil lower charge...after all tey were infantry on horseback.

Yeah, maybe, the stats I provided serve more as a guide than as an exactly appropriate model.
But if Dragoni should have weaker charge, the same should be applied to Semen Cavs. and Lisowczycy.

Regards,
EC

[TheSilverKnight]

Quote[/b] (Mouzafphaerre @ May 05 2004,06:40)]Protestant factions etc.

Protestantism as a religion can not be created by what modders have tried. So every faction will have to be catholic (except for Turks and Russia of course).

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
AFAIK, existing faiths can be changed, ie Pagans into Protestants, no?
_

[Kanuni]

Quote[/b] ]Well, they were almost unbeatable, maybe the best cavalry ever existed.

Everybody thinks so for their nation's cav For example for me, the Ottoman Sipahi and Jannissary Cavalrymen are the best cavs ever existed...

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (Trax @ May 10 2004,12:03)]1.The power of Poland can be balanced by other means, the low loyalty of her generals, the high rebelliousness of some of the provinces etc. these were the reasons why Poland didn´t conquer the world in real life.


2.+2 attack against cavalry - unnecessary IMHO, their irresistable charge should give them natural edge against other cavalry.
bonus vs armored troops - they aren´t armed with an axe, are they?
Buildable in Livonia - I doubt it very much, the local nobles - the Germans had a very different way of fighting.

So we are in the Engineers Guild now

Answers.

1. I'm going to make most of Polish units quite expensive (or very expensive especially the Husaria),
and requiring more time to build.

Low loyality of generals isn't the best idea.


2. bonus vs. cavalry is really important factor because the effect of the charge doesn't last too long.

And they really were armed with warhammers of different types and names + a brace of pistols, longsword caller 'koncerz' and a heavy sabre designed for them actually.


Generally. Husaria should be very, very powerful, but because it was the main strenght of the Polish army at that time.

Why Livonia - for now Livonia consists of a region which was in Poland for about 200 years ( presently southern Latvia) and in reality some units of the Cavalry were formed there. Of course in case of map changes this could be modified as well.


Hetman/Cegorach

[Hetman]

My next idea is to modify 'agent units' in the MTW.

1. I'm planning to delete Grand Inquisitors and restrict ordinary Inquisitors to Spain, Portugal, Hapsburgs HRE and probably France and Venetia ( I'm still not sure about it).

2. Assassins will be harder to build - more expensive and take more time to build, Spies only slightly more difficult.

3. Emissaries should be much more difficult to produce - diplomacy wasn't as easy as it is in the vanilla MTW.

4. Religious agents - bishops, priests and so on will be less common and probably restricted to certain periods.

5. New agents - Venetian Envoy - Venetian diplomacy was much more advanced at that time. The agent will be much easier to build than an ordinary Emissary ( especially less time to build - 1 year);
- Protestant Preacher - to spread protestant beliefs in early era (1492+);
- The Jesuits - to convert population in ater ( 1580+) era;

Regards Cegorach/Hetman

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (Cebei @ May 10 2004,05:26)]Real good time frames. However, I got a question. I guess my part is to pile up an Ottoman ruler-unit-hero-province info thingy again; this time for post-1492.

We can do it neatly with Mouzapheare. Now what are we doing?

Yes You are right Cebei.
I've got some info about Ottoman army, but only from 1600+ and I think You can add much, much more.

Thanks for Your efforts Hetman

[Nomad]

Hi Hetman,
As your not planning to make any new Bif's (yet)Are you thinking of using Duke Johns new animations for this mod. His swiss armoured pike might suit most Tercio style pike units, and his dismounted Chiv Knights could be used for many MAA's and dismounted knight units. Not to mention all the other potential uses of his stuff).
oh yes some more unit ideas

Ironsides (Paliamentarian Cuirassiers)
period: high (and maybe also late
faction: English;
Cavalry/Cuirassiers
- size - 40/60
feats;
- charge 6 or 7
- attack 4
- defence 3
- morale 3
- armor 3
- Disciplined
- available preferably only in: Mercia, Wessex, NorthUmbria

New Model Army Pike

period: high
faction: english;
- size - 80-100
feats;
- charge 8
- attack 2
- defence 3
- morale 2
- armor 2
- bonus defending vs cavalry
- available Mercia, Wessex, NorthUmbria

Saxony LifeGuard
faction HRE or Saxony
period High
size 40/60
feats;
- charge 7
- attack 4
- defence 3
- morale 4
- armor 3

- available preferably only in Saxony

Streltsy as Russian spearmen.
Period early/high
size 80/100
available Russian Provinces

Vityez as Gothic knights
early/high
size 40/60
available in Russian provinces

Just a few guestimates whilst I've got some spare time.

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ May 10 2004,04:45)]

Quote[/b] ]2. 1580 - 1648 ( no name yet),

suggestion: religious wars

1.BTW, that polish unit is almost invincible,which isnt exacly true (because Poland would rule the world, LOL)

2.I suggest you make them slow (5 m lance on horseback is not exactly wieldy), and not armour piercing, but give them 'elite' status. I think that would be more accurate.

3.BTW, the +2 bonus should only apply to cavalry that isnt armed with lances themselves, such as lancers.(because the reach is quite similar).

4.Fast cav: german reitar: armed with pistols and sword.

5.I'll put that page into a word doc. BTW, did you receive my email?

1. Fortunatelly the conquest of the world is much, much more difficult than in the game.
And there were no more than 6000 of them, even in 100 000+ armies.

2. The lance was hollowed so it was quite light to use.

And they were faster than Swedish Cuirrassiers or any other heavy cavalry.

3. I'm going to give them +1 bonus, You know they had wings as well.

4. fast would be enough for them. Only eastern cavalry should be very fast e.g. Tartats ( the fastest in the mod)

5. Yes thanks

I'm now going to read it.

Regards Cegorach/Hetman

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (Kanuni @ May 10 2004,22:37)]

Quote[/b] ]Well, they were almost unbeatable, maybe the best cavalry ever existed.

Everybody thinks so for their nation's cav For example for me, the Ottoman Sipahi and Jannissary Cavalrymen are the best cavs ever existed...

Yes they think, but Husaria was the best at that time.

I REALLY CAN PROVE IT.

Hetman

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ May 10 2004,18:42)]just a thought, maybe the dragoni should have a lil higher defence and attack, but a lil lower charge...after all tey were infantry on horseback.

You are right about ordinary Dragoons, but not when it comes to the Polish ones.
They were fighting mounted most of times as a very efficient ( I mean killrating) light ca.

Hetman

[Cebei]

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ May 11 2004,04:10)]

Quote[/b] (Kanuni @ May 10 2004,22:37)]

Quote[/b] ]Well, they were almost unbeatable, maybe the best cavalry ever existed.

Everybody thinks so for their nation's cav For example for me, the Ottoman Sipahi and Jannissary Cavalrymen are the best cavs ever existed...

Yes they think, but Husaria was the best at that time.

I REALLY CAN PROVE IT.

Hetman

Are these Polish Tatars? The ones which were attacking panzers with cavalry during WW2?

[SwordsMaster]

Ok, some suggestions for units:

Spanish Corselet:
(heavy pike unit)

only spanish homelands (Iberian peninsula, Naples, Lombardy)
size: 250 (thats the real size, change as you see fit)
disciplined
slow
good morale
best 4 ranks deep
armed with 15 feet pikes and a sword
charge 2
attack 4
defence 8 (bonus against cav)
armour 7 (15 kg of armour)

and yes, those guys were impossible to move if they held position.

Spanish pikeman: (lighter version of the corselet)

available to Spanish homelands+Spanish Netherlands

disciplined
normal speed
good morale
best 4 ranks deep
same gear but less armour
charge 3
attack 4
defence 6 (bonus against cav)
armour 4


Spanish Harquebusier

all territories controlled by spain, they rised them in big numbers
unit size 167 (again original size)
fast
good morale
charge 5
attack 5
defence 4
armour 2
armed with Harquebus, a sword and a dagger.


Spanish musketeer:

120 (original size)
long range
slow
disciplined
good morale
charge 4
attack 6
defence 5
armour 1
musket, sword, dagger.


Those 3 types of troops(and yes, 3 beacuse the 2 pikes are versions of the same type of unit) were the elite of the spanish army of the time.They were only inferior in quality to the royal guards.I will stick them in another post.

Those guys were the best infantry in the world until Louis XIV reform of the french army in the 1660's (correct me if the date is wrong).

BTW,about cavs again,I dont see how wings would help you in a charge...I think they were there for estetic purposes more than military ones...

Anyway lets not generalize, the Hussars won all the other cavs they fought, right? That is fair enough, because they adapted to do so and they were created to face their enemies. In the other hand, other types of cav were adopted for other purposes... I dont know how well the hussars would do against a mongol-type army. Very fast and harassing.probably they would be reduced to nothing before engaging. In the other hand, the mongols would be butchered by Cossacks or Ottomans, but Ottomans would be nailed by Hussards if they got hand to hand.... So every unit is good against some type of foe, but not against all of them...

@Nomad, the Vityez or Vityas were more early medieval werent they? correct me if im wrong...


So that is it, confusing isnt it?

[SwordsMaster]

Quote[/b] (Trax @ May 10 2004,18:59)]

Quote[/b] ]And for France I think you should include the Royal Musketeer as the late `best´musketeer unit... I have to think about the stats tho..

Good idea an elite cavalry unit, which can dismount into good infantry too (for sieges).
And then we could have d´Artagnan as an hero

@trax, I actually thought they should be better infantry than cavalry, and you could dismount them in every battle, no only sieges...

You could build the unit taking the stats for the Spanish musketeer, and changing them to
fast,
smaller unit
elite
armour 0.

They werent that much better than the spanish ones, but they were better organized and had better muskets.


Another general thought...by 1680s some nations introduced bayonettes instead of pikes, is the mod going to reflect that?

[SwordsMaster]

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ May 11 2004,03:37)]My next idea is to modify 'agent units' in the MTW.

1. I'm planning to delete Grand Inquisitors and restrict ordinary Inquisitors to Spain, Portugal, Hapsburgs HRE and probably France and Venetia ( I'm still not sure about it).

2. Assassins will be harder to build - more expensive and take more time to build, Spies only slightly more difficult.

3. Emissaries should be much more difficult to produce - diplomacy wasn't as easy as it is in the vanilla MTW.

4. Religious agents - bishops, priests and so on will be less common and probably restricted to certain periods.

5. New agents - Venetian Envoy - Venetian diplomacy was much more advanced at that time. The agent will be much easier to build than an ordinary Emissary ( especially less time to build - 1 year);
- Protestant Preacher - to spread protestant beliefs in early era (1492+);
- The Jesuits - to convert population in ater ( 1580+) era;

Regards Cegorach/Hetman

I dont think emissaries should be more expensive.COz i use them mostly to remove titles from my gens, and should ALWAYS be able to do that. If not, you will just wait and wait till a gen with good stats appear, wasting time and loyalty and fighting rebellions....

WOW, 3 consecutive posts, I will take a break...

[Trax]

i think they fought as cavalry most of the time, any way there were only 2 (I think) regiments of them: the black musketeers and one other. I have a book about the real d`Artagnan somewhere, I have to find it and see, what I can find about the Royal Musketeers.


BTW I think your attack and charge values for arquebusiers and musketeers are a little too high. Right now your musketeer has an attack value of 6 equal to Varangian guards in MTW. They can probably slaughter the pikemen in hand to hand right now.

[SwordsMaster]

They actually can. And they actually did. They have a sword and a dagger, so when the enemy got close, they left their muskets and fought as swordsmen.They were REALLY effective against pikes, even more provided that spanish cav was no match for the swedish or even the french except for the lancers. Thats the reason why spanyards used a lot of merc german cavs.

BTW, I dont think the Varang guard could stand a close formation of musketeers shooting...

Also they used Cavalry to transport Corselets faster through the battlefield. I dont think this could be implemented tho.

Another unit I though about is the

Fourageer:
available to all:
very fast inf
low morale
normal status
attack 2
charge 1
defence 3
armour 0

I dont know if this can be done, but their special ability would be to take the weapons of the defeated soldiers and use them during the battle, adopting 3/4 of the other units stats.... but only for infantry units.

eg lets say they attack and somehow defeat a unit of those pikemen i described above...

they would get the following stats:

charge 1
attack 3
defence 4
armour 1
normal speed
still low morale and not disciplined

They could only do it once in a battle tho

What do ye think? Do the experimented modders think this is doable?

Ok, now im definitely going to have a break

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (Cebei @ May 11 2004,04:37)]Are these Polish Tatars? The ones which were attacking panzers with cavalry during WW2?

No I mentioned Polish Husaria.

The Tartars were fighting in one regiment of cavalry at that time, and were very good at it.

Second. Well Cebei Your sources seems to be rather unreliable - Polish Uhlans charging tanks is pure propaganda work Goebbels and Soviet actually.

The cavalry fought very good and caused serious casualities,

and NONE OF THEM HAVE EVER CHARGED ANY KIND OF TANK.

regards Cegorach/Hetman

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ May 11 2004,04:58)]1.BTW,about cavs again,I dont see how wings would help you in a charge...I think they were there for estetic purposes more than military ones...

2.Anyway lets not generalize, the Hussars won all the other cavs they fought, right? That is fair enough, because they adapted to do so and they were created to face their enemies. In the other hand, other types of cav were adopted for other purposes... I dont know how well the hussars would do against a mongol-type army. Very fast and harassing.probably they would be reduced to nothing before engaging. In the other hand, the mongols would be butchered by Cossacks or Ottomans, but Ottomans would be nailed by Hussards if they got hand to hand.... So every unit is good against some type of foe, but not against all of them...

@Nomad, the Vityez or Vityas were more early medieval werent they? correct me if im wrong...


So that is it, confusing isnt it?

Very good unit ideas.

1. No. Firstly this was to prevent the Tartars to use their lassoo like weapon called arkan.
Secondly - the combo of pennants attached to the long lances and the wings caused fear to enemy horses ( the sound or rather noise).

2. No. The Husaria was used against Tartats many times and because it was quite fast was able to catch them, although light cavalry was necessary to do it properly and in open field. BTW they were not using lances to fight Tartars.

The reason why I rate them so high is that they were quite very good at fighting ALL kinds of enemies - Swedish pikemen, western cavalry, Tartar riders, Russian hordes,
Jannissaries, Ottoman Cavalry, EVEN a fortified Ottoman army
( Chocim 1673) and Cossack infantry in wagons ( Kumiejki 1597).

The unit was a wonder of that time - almost unbeatable for 100 years ( 1580 - 1698) and invincible for 45 years ( 1580- 1625), even when facing 3-5 times bigger armies ( Kircholm 1605 vs Sweden and Klushino 1610 vs Russians and Swedes.

Please check 1 page of the post for a link about the unit and Polish military.

Regards Cegorach/Hetman

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ May 11 2004,05:11)]Another general thought...by 1680s some nations introduced bayonettes instead of pikes, is the mod going to reflect that?

I don't think so. I'm going to avoid implementing unit types similar to the ones used in The NTW.

Second. Somebody asked about 6 months long turns.

I can say it is impossible, it is hardcoded, only Shogun TW's engine allowed such things probably.

Cegorach/Hetman

[Hetman]

Here is the first ( more to be added yet) list of units for the Polish faction.


1. Period

Ussaria light cavalry ( 'serbian' hussars), light, fast, unarmoured,

lance armed, very strong charge ( 6), 2 attack, 1 defence, +1 bonus attacking cavalry, good morale ( or average),

For Poland and Hungary;

Lancers - ordinary very heavily armoured knights;

Mounted Crossbows, - crossbow or arbalester (?),

Strzelcy ( Shooters) cavalry, - compound bow,

+ ordinary western european units at that time.

2.
wybraniecka infantry with muskets, ( and axes, but without bonus vs. armoured troops), similar to Eastside Character's idea,

wybraniecka infantry pikemen, - weaker than ordinary, 'vanilla' pikemen from this period, weaker morale, but still a pikemen unit;

Husaria medium/heavy cavalry, - probably I'll remove the bonus vs. armoured units ability because it wasn't so powerfull in long lasting melee against veavy cavalry, the rest will be the same;

Petyhorcy cavalry, well probably the same as in Eastside's proposal;

Cossacks cavalry, ( they weren't Cossacks in the majority), effective light cavalry with bows and no spear or lance;

Hungarian infantry,

German infantry,

Tartar cavalry, very fast and with good morale;

Zaporohian Cossacks wagon infantry, only if BKB will manage to create the Hussite Bohemian infantry. If yes this is going to be a very powerful defensive unit.

Zaporohian Cossacks infantry, probably the same as ECHaracter proposed.

Szlachta ( Nobles) cavalry, - cheap, undisciplined, light cavalry with low morale ( 1), armed with sabres and easy to get during rebellions for example;

Ukrainian Szlachta cavalry, - better than the above unit - higher morale ( 3-4), replaces Szlachta Cav. in Kiev and Smolensk;

Livonian ( or Courland) Reiter - pistol armed, but used to charge in gallop cavalry, in Livonia only and probably not for Poland only.


3.


Lisowczyk mercenary cavalry - a very good light cavalry available to Poland, Hungary and HRE as buildable mercenaries and to the rest as a mercenary unit.
Very fast ( almost as Tartat units), disciplined, armed with bows, other stats like in Eastside's proposal;
Available in Poland, Volhynia, Lithuania, Kiev, Livonia, Smolensk, Moldavia, Carpathia and Silesia for the factions I've mentioned.

Foreign infantry,
- both units similar to an average infantry units in western Europe at that time.
Foreign pikemen,

Cuirassiers - only in Poland, pistol armed ( 1 'unit' of ammunition) and similar to Swedish Cuirassiers at that time.

Polish Dragoons - fast and armed with a pistol cavalry which can dismount in every battle;

Pancerni cavalry, lance armed ( many were) cavalry with bows.

Polish light cavalry, - very fast and armed with an axe and a bow


As You can see I still do have to think about stats and so on.
And don't worry I'll balance all the units.

Regards Cegorach/Hetman:2thumbs:

[Eastside Character]

Hello people,

Just one more word about Huasaria, as it appears to be a kind of controversial unit..
They were NOT invincible, in fact they had been beaten quite a few times, especially by Cossacks during the Chmielnicki uprising (around 1648-49). And about their wings; not all of them really used wings, but from what I've read on the subject, the wings (apart from anit-arkan function) simply made those calavrymen look bigger, and the thinking that the sound the wings made is a common misconception, as well trained horses were not affraid of even gunshots, so why should they fear the wings (what about Husaria's steeds, wouldnt they be also affraid of the sound they heard...)? Also in many painting of Hussaria, they are not always with those wings, and yes 'koncerz' they used WAS an armor piercing weapon, it would overpower them too much tho I think.

Regards,
EC

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ May 11 2004,06:51)]Hello people,

Just one more word about Huasaria, as it appears to be a kind of controversial unit..
1.They were NOT invincible, in fact they had been beaten quite a few times, especially by Cossacks during the Chmielnicki uprising (around 1648-49). ,

2.and yes 'koncerz' they used WAS an armor piercing weapon, it would overpower them too much tho I think.

Regards,
EC

EC
1. You are right about it, I can only add that if an idiot commands an army he can waste even the best unit.
And the Cossack-Tartar army was probably the worst enemy for the husaria, because they combined rock hard Cossack infantry units ( wagon infantry) and super-fast Tartat horsemen.

2. As You can see I decided to delete this option.

Regards Cegorach/hetman

[Eastside Character]

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ May 11 2004,06:45)]1.Tartar cavalry, very fast and with good morale;

2.Ukrainian Szlachta cavalry, - better than the above unit - higher morale ( 3-4), replaces Szlachta Cav. in Kiev and Smolensk;

1. What about naming them Lipki or Lipkowie , to make some distinction with Crimean Tartats? I believe they should be available only in Volhynia, Lithuania and maybe Kiev as they were settled in only those regions in fact.

2. Why Ukrainian, when they can be trained also in Smolesnk? What about naming them simply Ruska Szlachta, or Registered Cossacks (if they represent nobility of Russian lands under Polish rule that'd be the most suitable name I believe; historically I mean).

Regards,
EC

[Hetman]

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ May 11 2004,06:51)]

One more thing.

The wings really worked, even in the XIXth century cavalry horses were afraid of pennants attached to lances.

Cegorach/Hetman

[Trax]

http://www.fairfax.org.uk/
This is a great source about English army and Civil war in particular. Lots of good reenactment pictures.

Note thet musketeers dont attack with swords, but rather with the butts of their muskets.

http://www.fairfax.org.uk/MAIN....ket.jpg

[SwordsMaster]

just had another idea... as we are all discussing units why dont you post all the units descriptions in thread along with pictures if there are any, just so we know what are we talking about, coz for me it is hard to distinguish between the different types of polish infantry you mentioned, could be easier with some pics....just a suggestion...

BTW, go u think that the furageers can be implemented? It would be an interesting unit available to all armies.

@ Trax, spanish musketeers and even the harquebusiers left the firearms and fought with swords in the middle of the pike formations,between the pikes, so the pikers were unprotected unless they dropped their weapons. That is, they left their firearms if they were so close they couldnt continue firing...

I'll describe for you the (extremely) expensive guard troops, and the wallons and italians later. Also i have to describe the spanish cav and artillery.

BTW, bear in mind that spanish infantry was the best of Europe between 1500-1648. Another thought i had is that as they had some reputation of being cruel to the native population, I think everywhere spanish troops are employed other than catholic countries, they should lower happiness.
Again if that is doable.

And i thought that if the hussars cause fear to horses they shouldnt cause fear to pikemen....maybe to infantry other than pikes. Just a suggestion.