Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: TECH woes(MTW)

  1. #1
    Member Member mandrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Hello guys, total noob here. Before I describe my problems, some system specs(I copied the form from the apotecary):

    -the TYPE of hardware in my system:

    Motherboard: ASUS A7S266-VM/U2 ACPI
    Cpu type: AMD Athlon™ XP 2200+(1.80GHz)
    video card: NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 64MB(Bus: PCI)
    sound card: C-Media Wave Device
    ram: 512MB SDRAM
    monitor: NA
    router/modem/satellite: NA
    firewall/proxy (hardware type): NA

    -Software stuff on my machine:

    operating system: Microsoft Windows XP/2002 Professional (Win32 x86) 5.01.2600 (Service Pack 1)
    directx version: 9.0b
    vid card driver version: Latest
    sound card driver version: Latest
    which Total War game: Medieval
    anti-virus software: Norton(disabled most of the time)
    firewall/proxy (software type): NA

    Options you use in the game:

    screen resolution i play in: 800x600
    screen resolution on desktop:
    color bit setting on desktop: 32 bit
    smoke and fauna on/off? : on/off makes no difference
    unit size in game: max
    agp aperture setting (game): 128mb(2x video RAM)
    pyrotechic setting (game) : max(?)

    did you run dxdiag? : yes

    If you ran dxdiag and some tests failed, what were they? :none

    I am running these tasks in the background: only essential

    I have ANY microsoft office product in my systray (the stuff in the lower right of the desktop):only clock

    I've defragged my system within the last (hour, day, week, month): 1 week

    I installed a new directx version and now (whatever) isnt working: no

    I recently did/installed/un-installed this ____ and now my system/game isnt working right: Medieval sure isn't

    Description:

    There, hope that helps. Here's the problem: frame rates. My settings up there are almost twice the IDEAL settings listed in the 1.1 patch readme, and still the game runs like a dog in Quick Battle. The mouse lags and I can tell it's going to be choppy as soon as the terrain loads.

    What I have tried:

    -In the GeForce tab settings: Turned anti-aliasing, antisotropic(?) filtering off. Image settings set to Performance. V-Synch set to ON. Hardware acceleration set to Off.
    -In the BIOS, changed AGP aperture size to 128 mb.
    -In the game:Turned Smoke/Fauna off. Sound settings set to Medium, hardware acceleration set to OFF.

    Now the ONE thing I haven't tried is setting the PCI texture memory. However this is because that option is not available with my driver version (6.14.10.5672). Is this because it is on PCI bus?

    I REALLY appreciate any help, or if you guys can lead me in the right direction.
    none

  2. #2
    Tired Old Geek Member mfberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NC, USA
    Posts
    757

    Default

    The AGP option in the game is what I had to change. I think it is explained somewhere in the Apothecary.

    mfberg
    It is not complete until the overwieght female vocalizes.

    Pinky : Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?
    Brain : The same thing we do every night Pinky. Try to take over the world!

  3. #3
    Member Member mandrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Sorry mfberg I did a search for that on the forums and couldn't find it. On the apothecary I did find people with problems similar to mine and tried their solutions, no help. what helps me is no matter WHAT I try it has NO effect whatsoever on a 1v1 Quick Battle with all unit sizes set to huge. Doesn't get better or worse.

    Here's some tweak utilities I've tried using:

    -The Geforce4 tweak that comes with the install CD
    -Riva Tuner
    -GeForce Tweak Utility
    -nv3 tweak utility(won't install)
    -nForce_system_utility_1.08.5 from nvidia.com(won't install)
    -NVMax(won't install)

    And i've read the entire Solution to Poor Frame rates thread in the totalwar.com forums.
    none

  4. #4
    Member Member squippy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    828

    Default

    Do you observe problems with other games?

    Your graphics card is listed as PCI bus: is it an actual PCI card or an AGP card? I had this problem on an ASUS motherboard and flashing the BIOS helped.

    I woyuld be inclined to turn vsync OFF and try your performance tests again to see if anything starts changing. Conceivably one setting causes so much impact none of the others matter.
    "We are not the Duke of Sung." - Mao Zedong

  5. #5
    Member Member mandrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Thx for your reply squippy but I need some clarification on a few things:

    Your graphics card is listed as PCI bus: is it an actual PCI card or an AGP card?

    I have no idea how to even check this. Complete retard when it comes to these things I'm just pasting the stuff SANDRA System Report gives me. It is on PCI Slot 1 if that helps.

    flashing the BIOS helped

    How is this done?


    turning Vsynch off

    Yes I have tried this and several other combinations and there were no changes either way in my performance(or if there were, they were so small that I could not detect them).
    none

  6. #6
    Unfrequent Visitor Member tombom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    England
    Posts
    257

    Default

    If it is an AGP card in a PCI slot, then I would have thought it wouldn't work, or at least go very slowly, but then I'm not really an expert and it may not even be an AGP card. Also, i thought it was wrong to increase the memory to over the amount you have on the card but again i'm probably wrong. It would be nice if a moderator could move this to the tech forum

    Sorry I couldn't of been more help.
    caesar44 is having a system failure Claudius. He no longer has a head, on the count of it exploding. - Wonderland in this thread

  7. #7
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    12,705

    Default

    Hi mandrake

    I'm sending this off to the Apothecary. You are able to reply to topics there in case anyone asks for more information.
    This space intentionally left blank

  8. #8
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Searching for the ORG's lost honor
    Posts
    4,657

    Default

    You are using a PCI graphics card it appears. Roughly 5 year old technology. Still you shouldn't be dragging that badly.

    One bug I've seen on my games system is that something in Internet Explorer is causing slow downs if I run IE first--and not just in MTW. I think it has something to do with the "Multi language support" I installed. Additionally it fouls with the text in the save games list. I probably need to uninstall IE and try a reinstall (minus multilanguage.) Anyway, what I've learned is not to open IE before running MTW/VI or other titles.

    Make sure anisotropic filtering and anti-aliasing are disabled with that card.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    7,093

    Default

    hit start, run, and type in dxdiag. let it load. find the place where it says 'hardware sound acceleration' and slide the bar all the way to the left (off). things shld improve greatly. hardware sound acceleration is NOT the same thing as 'hardware acceleration'.

    your pci texture memory setting shld be in desktop, properties, settings, advanced under one of the tabs. if you dont have the tabs, you need whatever that little nvidia thing is that allows for changing that stuff. sorry, it's been so long since i downloaded the thing i dont recall the name.

    red, the reason for that 'drag' after running i.e. is that when .dll's get loaded into memory, they dont unload for a long period of time unless they really get squeezed out. it's a microsoft thing (and a pain in the arse at times).

    oh, and mandrake, if you want to speed things up a bit more, go into start, settings, control panel and find the 'sound' folder. look through it till you find something like 'sampling rate'. when music is recorded digitally, it is done at a rate, so many bits per second. the more bits per second, the better the sound. the downside is that it takes more juice to run the higher bit rates and thus slows down your machine. by turning this down, you can often free up resources that were otherwise being used for this larger sampling rate, and really not discern much degredation in sound quality.

    you might also want to visit the blackviper.com site and tweak the hog that is windows. way too much garbage running on winxp, home or pro.

    K.

  10. #10
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Searching for the ORG's lost honor
    Posts
    4,657

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Kraellin @ May 25 2004,23:00)]red, the reason for that 'drag' after running i.e. is that when .dll's get loaded into memory, they dont unload for a long period of time unless they really get squeezed out. it's a microsoft thing (and a pain in the arse at times).
    It's more than that. There is something actively interfering with other components. Whatever is running does not get squeezed out, it just gets worse. I suspect it is locking up the PCI bus. Things will even crash as a result. Since I have a workaround, I haven't spent much time tracking it down. It has done it with several driver sets and two different cards, so it seems to be IE specific. Once the little system tray icon pops up showing multilanguage support, it never goes away until reboot. Thought I was being smart when I installed that since I do read things in a few different languages from time to time. Must remind myself: never let MS "help" you.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    7,093

    Default

    red,

    ok. sounds like a looping process, only one that is demanding system resources, possibly on an incrementing basis. never fun. but, if you've got a work-around, good.

    and yeah, i'm always a bit reluctant to stick anything MS related on my machine... even the o/s ;)

    K.

  12. #12
    Member Member mandrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Thanks for your help guys, unfortunately I'm still stumped on this issue, nothing seems to affect the darn thing.

    "hit start, run, and type in dxdiag. let it load. find the place where it says 'hardware sound acceleration' and slide the bar all the way to the left (off). things shld improve greatly. hardware sound acceleration is NOT the same thing as 'hardware acceleration'."

    Sorry Kraellin this has no effect on performance. I am using 1v1 "Quick Battle" with unit sizes on "huge" as a benchmark.

    I've noticed the slow down begins as soon as the terrain loads when the battle starts, and that battles are a bit faster when run in desert terrain.

    "your pci texture memory setting shld be in desktop, properties, settings, advanced under one of the tabs. if you dont have the tabs, you need whatever that little nvidia thing is that allows for changing that stuff. sorry, it's been so long since i downloaded the thing i dont recall the name."

    Yes I can find this tab, however there is no option allowing me to change PCI texture size. This is with the latest driver, I'm thinking maybe it would be best to uninstall my graphics card and then installing it with an earlier driver that will let me change this setting? Does anybody know a place where I can find old versions of graphics card drivers?
    none

  13. #13
    Member Member mandrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    19

    Default

    bump
    none

  14. #14
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Searching for the ORG's lost honor
    Posts
    4,657

    Default

    Since you have an obsolete card (PCI bus plus it is an MX) you shouldn't be running "huge" unit sizes. I'm not saying that is the source of the problem. However, it is creating unnecessary overhead and is beyond what your modest hardware should be asked to do.

    MX cards are GF2's at the core if memory serves so older drivers might do better.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  15. #15
    Member Member mandrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    19

    Default

    That could be true Red Harvest but the problem is that MTW's specs are not that far above Shogun's, and in STW I could run 3v3 battles with units on huge with the same setup and with less "lag" than I'm getting now. Also I have read about many people with the same or lower system specs having the same problem and managing to get it fixed. Add to that the fact that everything I've tried has no effect either positive or negative and that leaves me thinking it may be some small thing I've overlooked or haven't tried yet (the PCI texture size for example).
    none

  16. #16
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    7,093

    Default

    what you've got is two heavy weights running on a medium weight machine. win xp is a hog. mtw/vi is a hog. and the pci cards are quite a bit slower than agp. i run a 1.7 ghz machine, with a gf4 mx 440, pci type, and i keep xp trimmed as much as possible, run in 800 x 600 in most heavy duty games, turn off anti aliasing, anistropic filtering, maximize the operation of pci texture memory and agp aperture, run in normal unit size, all pyrotechics and smoke and fauna off. i shut down all norton stuff and a few other programs running in the systray. i've been to www.blackviper.com and cut out as many services as possible on xp. i've got hardware sound accel off, sampling at a decent middle ground value, all my desktop stuff set for optimum performance rather than graphic quality and done just about everything i can think of to trim these two hogs down to size.

    when i first started playing mtw, it was painful. the lag was awful. after doing all of the above, i can still get a bit of lag in large battles.

    sorry mate, but your machine just isnt a heavy weight. 1.8 ghz is middle ground these days, and a gf4 mx is pretty much low end, or at best lower middle end. mtw/vi run tremendous amount of processes in the background, and that's not even including all the graphic processing.

    now, that's not saying you cant run it and you may very well have some hardware conflicts going on, like with the vid card. for instance, with that processor and that pci card, i'd guess you have an e-machine computer, or maybe a dell or compaq and wanted something better than the onboard card but couldnt find an agp slot for something better than a gf4 mx. and that's because some of those machines dont have agp slots, so you end up with a pci card, which is still far better than the onboard garbage. but, you may need to check to make sure the onboard one is completely disabled. go into safe mode and check device manager and make sure the onboard one is fully disabled. then, while still there, just to be on the safe side, remove the old onboard drivers. prolly wont matter if you leave them in, but isnt going to hurt if you take them out either.

    K.

  17. #17
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Searching for the ORG's lost honor
    Posts
    4,657

    Default

    STW to MTW is apples to oranges comparison unfortunately. STW runs well on my old XP2100 and Radeon ViVo (roughly equivalent to your MX, except it is AGP.) MTW is an odd fish and often bogs high spec systems down for no apparent reason.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  18. #18
    Member Member mandrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    19

    Default

    OH YES SWEET JESUS

    I KNEW it was the damn PCI texture size thing

    Thanks for all your help guys, I managed to solve it, FINALLY

    Pass this on to the next guy who asks:

    1. I uninstalled my current GeForce drivers,
    2.went to nvidia's site and got the 43.45 detonator drivers,
    3.rebooted,
    4. NOW the PCI texture option was available, set it to 2 from 62mb
    5. crossed my fingers, fired up MTW and YOU GUESSED IT, BABY

    Quick Battle 4000 units on the field all settings MAX and it ran like BUCKWHEAT through a GOOSE Like **** through a TIN CAN CAN YOU SAY A-MEN TO THAT

    I GUARANTEE IT
    none

  19. #19
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    (*disclaimer* - reality may or may not exist, in some societies reality is a crime, punishable by life)
    Posts
    5,341

    Default

    happy to read you found a solution,


    side note : you mentioned it became apparent as soon as textures load, ran best in desert terrain - here's why

    In Medieval there are 2 types of trees,
    those attatched to the tiles and those you place yourself.
    In both cases they are rendered individually, requiring a large amount of memory to do so.

    Now Shogun had similar, but Shogun managed tree rendering far better,
    - i suspect Shogun re-used memory block's,
    (each tree type was loaded into a specific memory block and then called into display from that memory block),
    where Medieval assigns a new memory block to each and every tree.

    Why would the developers do this?
    In Shogun all data was stored in a specific area of memory reserved for that data type, once you had determined what was stored where it was possible to dynamically cheat the game (Koku cheat, Honour cheat etc etc).
    I believe Medieval juggles things around during play to prevent dynamic cheating, thus each tree requires it's own memory assignement.

    thats my theory and i'm sticking to it
    B.

  20. #20
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Searching for the ORG's lost honor
    Posts
    4,657

    Default

    Mandrake,

    Glad you were able to fix it. Enjoy
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •