Official Osprey thread

[Revenant69]

Wow, what a great thread !!! I have stumbled here by accident, but now Monastery has become the place where I spend most of my time at the ORG because history, especially ancient and medieval history, is one of my hobbies.

Believe it or not but I have read ALL 25 pages in this thread. Yeah I'm a masochist I know. But I didn't just read the pages, I have carefully compiled my own OSPREY books wish list so to speak. Unfortunately this list is rather long and by the first estimation the full costs would run up to 4000$ LOL Yeah, so I'll have to take it easy and collect bit by bit.

Also, someone here mentioned that I can get OSPREY books in pdf format. That would be great for me as I'd be able to judge the worthiness of the title before I buy it, thus saving quite a bit. Could anyone point me to this wonderful source of pdf files?

Many thanks,
Rev

PS BKB - you are my hero !!!

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

PS BKB - you are my hero !!!

Not sure what to say Rev but thanks for such high praise! Glad to see you've taken a shine to these books, they're great little sources of info.

As for books in pdf format, we'll unfortunately I don't think I can help you with that. If you want a sneak peak of the kind of plates you can expect in the book though, I can give you a link to a Polish Total War site which has a huge thread on Osprey where they've attached pictures of loads of books. LMK mate.

[edyzmedieval]

BKB is really a hero for this thread.

BKB,

What books can you recommend on the Roman army?!Especially the legions.

[cunctator]

For the imperial era I can recommend both legionary titles form the warrior series:
Imperial Roman Legionary 161-284 AD
Roman Legionary 58BC-69AD
For my taste the men-at-arms books are much to short for such an extensive topic. Also Roman auxilary cavalryman 14-193 AD will be released this month.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Yes as Cuncator said those two titles in the 'Warrior' series are excellent, plus the plates by Angus McBride are very good indeed. You can't really go too far wrong there.

[Steppe Merc]

For Christmas I got The Normans, Army of the Muslim Conquest and Saladin and the Saracens. They are all excellent, though I have not yet fininshed the Normans (got a whole bunch of other books to read as well).

[snevets]

Anybody have any plates of the Etruscans? Thanks for any help provided.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Only Etruscans I can recall are ones of them fighting the Celts by Angus McBride in either his Concord titles or the 'Warlords' one for Blandford Press, and there are a few. I'll see what I can find.

[Kraxis]

For the imperial era I can recommend both legionary titles form the warrior series:
Imperial Roman Legionary 161-284 AD
Roman Legionary 58BC-69AD
For my taste the men-at-arms books are much to short for such an extensive topic. Also Roman auxilary cavalryman 14-193 AD will be released this month.

Ah yes, it would be interesting to see how the style changed... I mean we all know the nice segmented armour and square tower shields, and then suddenly we have chain or no armour and oval flat shields.

I know that it seems that Septimus Severus was the last to truly use the 'old' lorica segmentata (that we know of of course), but then there is a major gap in my knowledge until about Constantine.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Snevets, here's one mate:



Obviously the ones to the right are Etruscans.

I know there's at least two more but I can't find them at the minute.

[snevets]

Thanks Bohemia. Any others you could find would be good.

[gie]

Etruscan

[Steppe Merc]

Angus is deffienetly way to varied in his quality. I have a bunch of great stuff by him, like the Normans, Vikings, Muslim Conquest, Saladin, Islamic Armies and my favorite, Atilla and the Hordes. But then when I look at Byzantine Armies 800 whatever (the middle one, not the last one), and even Sassanian Elite Cav, there totally different. Why does he change his style so much? I get that he gets better from Byzantine Armies 800 whatever, but how did he get worse (IMHO) in Sassanians? The book was good, but the plates were very sad compared to Atilla or Normans or even Saladin.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Its a great shame mate but its quite probably age, I mean he's 75 now, we'ere just gonna have to face facts that he isn't as good as he was. He's using a different technique and if that allows him to go on longer than so be it that's fine with me. I still think he pisses over every other Osprey artist anyway.

[Kraxis]

Its a great shame mate but its quite probably age, I mean he's 75 now, we'ere just gonna have to face facts that he isn't as good as he was. He's using a different technique and if that allows him to go on longer than so be it that's fine with me. I still think he pisses over every other Osprey artist anyway.

I both agree and not... Yes he might be getting too old, but some of his later works are still comparable to his 'golden' years.
But I don't think that in his lesser works he is pissing the competition away. There are several younger artists that are quickly catching up to him. Wayne Renolds when he doesn't get up close to his subjects (it seems every man and his dog has to scream in a cartoony fashion), Mike Chapell, Bryan Deff and the two Hooks can match 'the old man of the pen'. Of course he has in his best works some very special way to make it lively yet still believeable, and that is the difference. Technically his works aren't better but his balance of what he includes is superior.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Reynolds is good yes but will never be of McBride's quality. I don't know the first two but as for the two Hooks (which two? There are 3) they are 'technically' good but will never, ever invoke spirit and the essence of a real piece of history in their paintings the way Angus does.

[Steppe Merc]

I really only have McBride stuff, I only have Sarmatians by Embelton... which is not nearly as good as most of McBride's stuff.

[cegorach]

I have just received the Armies of Ivan the Terrible and managed to read some parts of it I wanted to try first.

Overall - it is worth money I paid, gives some interesting informations and the plates ( McBride ) are excellent ... but in some places is so incredibly, terribly biased and the last part ( Lithuanian army) is almost a pure nonsense.

What is biased ?
Well.. I would say that everything which discribes Ukraine, Lithuanian Grand Duchy or mentiones Poland in any way.
- the author most likely believes that tha whole Cossack thing, their whole purpose was to take Ukraine to Russia, there is almost no mention that it was In Poland-Lithuania and some descriptions of Cossack troops are about those in POLISH army, although it is conveniently omitted or forgotten ( short memory loss ?).
- the timetable, there is no mention about the battles Russia lost and there is some ranting about Smolensk liberated from Lithuanian occupation - before it there was no Russia, no Tzars etc so who was occupied ?
Smolensk was a frontier city at that time and even in early XXth century 10 % of its citizens were Polish,
- it is written that it was unsuccessful siege of Polock in 1617 which made Gustavus Adolphus reform its army or that it was the major reason of them - I guess that previous 20 years of endless defeats in war vs POland-Lithuania didn't count at all,
- Livonian War is only mentioned even if it was one of the most important events of that period, the war vs. Poland which ended this period is only mentioned as unsuccessful siege of Polock ( again Polock rulez !) - nothing about that it was one of at least 10 battles/sieges and the whole rest were Russian defeats - it is like writing about 30-years war without Lutzen or swedish involvement at all,
- the only battle against Poles is conveniently the one which was won - if a band of volunteers counts at all,
- there is no information how the hell these Poles got to Moscow (only liberation was mentioned) - as tourists visiting their relatives ? I guess that the battle at Klushino in 1610 doesn't count at all,
- the largest battle in eastern Europe in XVIth century ( Orsha ) isn't mentioned, there is only a part of the painting celebrating this greatest Lithuanian victory and it is the one where lithuanian Tatar auxilia is running away - true they faked rout lured Russians into a trap, but who cares !
- Smolensk war, the first trial of new russian 'foreign' regiments isn't isn't worth more than 5-7 words, nothing about its outcome,
- no mention about Polish-lithuanian state it is only Lithuania,
- no mention about the units copied from Poland - they were about 20 % of russian cavalry,
- Prince Radziwill, hetman - commander of Lithuanian army in Polish-Lithuanian state appears almost as a Russian !
- The part about the army of Lithuania is full of bullocks - like that its majority were infantrymen, of course any Polish word or even the very word 'polish' in any form doesn't appear at all even though it was in 400-years long union with POLAND where Lithuania was and its official and unofficial language was Polish, its army organisation was like in Poland, as well as titles of commanders, names of weaponry - almost EVERYTHING except some special types of troops ( Tatars and Petyhorcy cavalry)

and many, many others.

I was waiting for this book and now I feel almost betrayed.

I believe it can be read, but only TOGETHER with bot books about Polish armies of that period - otherwise...

Regards Cegorach

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

How'd you get it so early mate? Any good battle/action plates?

[cegorach]

If I am correct there are two battle plates - one with Zaporozhian Cossacks charging from wagonburg and second with Streltsy musketeers shooting somewhere.
Not bad overall.

BTW - the Orsha thing - all right it is not so bad - there is another piece of the painting showing Polish hussars chasing Russian cavalry, but still there is no mention who won the battle - ( Lithuanians and Poles).

I have also noticed that some descriptions of the plates are not without mistakes - especially with Zaporozhian Cossack leader having bulawa mace used as a mark of command in Polish army which is not explained at all - it is just plain, meaningless weapon to the author ! Shame.

And finally if I am correct the whole incredibly important fact of Polish-Lithuanian union which lasted 400 years ( Poland-Lithuania was the most important neighbour of Russia for God's sake !!) is mentioned ONCE - for the rest of the book you have Lithuanians, Lithuanian Grand Duke ( obviously belittling the rank of the KING of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania almost like in XIXth century Russian propaganda pieces) and sometimes some evil Poles probably teleported right from the middle Europe without any apparent reason to invade 'peaceful' Russia... utter, plain rubbish.
Hopefully I will live long enough to see unbiased Osprey book from a Russian writer concerning Polish-Russian relations.

In fact many of the informations I was looking for aren't here - but I know they are in many russian sources, even I know more about several parts of the russian army which is supposed to be described in the book.
Don't get me wrong - when I have read the Polish armies books I found them very intersting even if I know really much about the Polish-Lithuanian army of that period and after reading this particular one I feel that my knowledge is not any better, in fact I have learnt more from ONE webside of a russian historian - I can give you the link if you want.

Overall such a BIG title and so much dissappointment...

Regards Cegorach

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Thanks mate. I got this, Roman Auxiliary Cavalryman, Bronze Age War Chariots and Ancient Greek Fortifications from a hobby shop today, good stuff. I do like the plates in Ivan I must say, very good. Sorry to hear your disappointed with the info though, you specialize in this kind of thing so I wouldn't be sure about the mistakes to be honest.

I got the Osprey catalogue today - there's two more good compilation books coming out in June. One about the Vikings with the elite title, the New Vanguard Longboat title and the Warrior Viking Hersir book. Then there's one called 'Warriors of the Dragon' or something like that with all 5 Chinese Armies men at arms books, dating from 1500BC-1840. Good purchases if you don't already have these books.

[kataphraktoi]

Don't worry ANGUS aint losing his touch.

I think u guys need to compare angus's best art and his not as good art and look at the date of first print!!

The Byzantine books were done earlier than the Osprey books with better art.

Angus's art isn't going down, its going up!

[Steppe Merc]

It was, but not anymore. Sassanian Heavy Horse is far inferior to Vikings, Normans or Atilla and the Nomad Hordes. That said, it is way better than his earliest stuff.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I think the Ivan book might be a bit of a return to form - I don't believe he uses the charcoal-type drawing materials in this one so it looks a lot better.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

A small treat for you guys that don't have Concord's Age of the Crusades - many of you won't have seen these pics but its a shame because they are brilliant. Angus in 2004 mind, showing he can still match up to his earlier stuff and then some. I'll post a few more tomorrow. Slightly slanted and not great I know but they were tough to scan:

Lechfeld:



Clontarf (brilliant):



Timurids battling an elephant in Asia:

[Steppe Merc]

In the Ivan book, is there any thing mentioned about the Crimean Khanate? Any pics or just a paragraph about them? I'm thinking about getting it, but if it doesn't mention some of their enemies (especially the coolest, the Crimeans...)

[Kraxis]

Wow... those are great. And I agree, Clontarf (vikings vs ?) is absolutely brilliant, but Lechfeld is to an extent better in that it portrays the men more up close and personal.

But I'm surprised with the number of men at Clontarf that we only see one man down, another on the way (how his oponent gets to the position of striking I can't fathom) and a possible one (the axeman vs spearman).

[cavalry1]

Hello! I'm interested in the Montvert book Sassanian Armies. I've been told that there's a picture of some Hephthalite and Chionite warriors in this book. Does anyone know where I can find this picture, and any other pictures from this book?

[edyzmedieval]

I just got the Osprey catalogue earlier this week.

Hopefully I can order some more, I am very fond of Osprey books....

Wanna order:
-The Normans
-Ancient Greek Fortifications
-Japanese Castles
-Macedonian Elite Warrior

Plus some other books, but I don't have my list near me.
Any thoughts?!

[cegorach]

In the Ivan book, is there any thing mentioned about the Crimean Khanate? Any pics or just a paragraph about them? I'm thinking about getting it, but if it doesn't mention some of their enemies (especially the coolest, the Crimeans...)

There is one guy on the plate, but this one comes from the Russian army, overall if there is hardly anything about the most important neighbour of Russia Poland-Lithuania and these few pieces of information are biased what can you expect. So there is nothing worth reading - I know much more anyway - see Pike and Musket TW sub-forum - soon I will post something more i.e. screens of finished Tatar army.

Regards Cegorach