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Thread: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

  1. #91
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    [QUOTE=Speiz_Bankurt]How about making Hungarian Hussars in this mod. I beleive it was in this period that this unit started getting popular in the military and served as mercs all over europe. Even passed it on to the Polish who seem to think they invented them .


    We don't thinks so I believe. But in Poland Hussars were quite different - Winged Hussars and these were unique to Poland.
    Anyway it is much thanks to the Hungarian prince Stephen Bathory who was one of the best kings in Polish history, but you should know that 'Poles and Hungarians are like brothers, in fighting and in drinking'.

    Anyway try my/our mod as well. Hungarian army is one of my biggest problems, especially names in Hungarian. If you are interested please conntact me by a PM.

    Our mod is for MTW so shouldn't worry anyone out here in this thread.

    Regards Cegorach/Hetman

  2. #92
    Member Member Speiz_Bankurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Cegorach, I know, you're right. Poles and Hungarians have always been close. Seriously speaking though polish hussaria probably developed simultaniously and independantly of the Hungarian. It's just that the Hungarians got some early exposure to the rest of the world through the Austrians and Germans who absolutely loved using Hungarian Hussars. Many generals wouldn't even start a campaign without having some in their armies. It would be a pitty to leave them out of this mod!
    One thing I don't understand though is the name hussar itself. I mean Hussar and Hussaria sound so similar yet are so different.

  3. #93
    Ignore the username Member zelda12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Wotcha Silver,
    Tried to get onto your main page but the thing didn't work. Got the 404 error thing. I'd be happy to help on the research level. Mainly around the late 16th early 17th century is where my interest lies though.

    Heres my first offering to your unit lists.

    Finnish Cavalry (not sure on the exact terminology)
    These were soldiers recruited by their Swedish overlords during the 30 years war and before. Carrying their wheel lock pistols and sabers. Despite having smaller horses than their mainland couterparts these horsemen have become one of the most feared cavalry forces of the time. Their bloodthirsty nature fearless approach and the tendency to not take prisoners makes them a truly terrifying unit to face. Their battle cry was, Haakka päälle! Or, Hack them down!

    They can be classed as light cavalry and put in in the later part of the game. Also we could ask massa to do the voice over and battle cry. seeing as he is Finnish.

    Hope it helps. If you want more info PM me and I'll have a look.

  4. #94
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Cool idea zelda.

    Is Massa even registered over here though?
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  5. #95
    Ignore the username Member zelda12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Yep he relocated over here after he gat banned but when reinstated he went back to the .commie. He also has the worst record for answering PMs at the .commie as atested by Theo and various others. If you like I'll leave post over at the .commie asking him to pop over.

  6. #96
    Member Member massamuusi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    That's because no one ever pm's me!

    I do occasionally check in here, mostly I check the mods, since this is one of the two big modding communities. I don't post here almost at all, though, lazy and there's little that I can help with.

    But I will try to get you some war cries and other shouts you might need, I'll try to get some 3-4 other people do them as well, so that you can have at least some choice. And don't worry, I'm not going to ask little kids do them. I'll try to contact some choir as well, but can't promise anything. Although, if I could manage to do that, they sure could get you some good ass warcries... Though, this will be very hard to arrange. I will post progress updates, expect the first progress update on friday, since there'll be some time wasted in the exchange of mail with people and trying to talk people over.
    I'm sure you can find pretty good books about 'hakkapeliitta' in english, so I shouldn't need to help with that side, though finland is not on the map so you won't be needing much info about them, on the other hand, you'll have to make province sweden make up the profit of the areas left outside, that is, the profits of northern sweden and southern finland, if you want sweden to be playable, because otherwise it would suffer unfair weakening.
    The swedes also had some finnish infantry, but since they were so similar to swedish infantry there's no reason to make them an individual unit, since they weren't really treated like that anyway.
    For Home, Religion and Fatherland.

  7. #97
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Hi massa,

    Finland will be on the map, don't worry. One of the main goals of this mod is to expand the map north. It would be great if you could do all of the Scandinavian/Danish voices rather than just Finnish, maybe even some Russian voices aswell. (we'll see on that one) I may (and hopefully) be able to get some books on the north during this time as well. Then again, that's part of what the internet is there for!

    Cheers,
    Silver Rusher
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  8. #98
    Member Member massamuusi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    There will be credits for the voice actors, I believe? I just wrote a mail to 'polytechnic choir' and kinda promised they will have their names on the credits if they should accept to do the voice overs for hakkapeliittas.
    I can look for the other voices as well. But like said, I have no idea if I can manage to get an actual choir to make them or if they will be of worse quality.
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  9. #99
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    I think that there will be credits- even if they are just limited to a readme. Everyone will be in the credits, from scripters to voice actors, and just, well, everyone who took part in the mod.
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  10. #100
    Member Member massamuusi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    I would also need a list of the commands in english.

    I will also need to find out which commands were issued in swedish and which in finnish etc. Well, we all know they shouted their warcry in finnish, that's a start. There are many choirs, and I am kinda hoping at least one of them would have some people interested making the voices for free, I should also ask if they can do swedish and russian voices, since I believe that people who use their voice for living should have some skill in other languages.
    Well, we'll see just how much interest there will be. It'll take days I guess to get a confirmation and so on.
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  11. #101
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Right then,

    Commands... OK, for the sake of realism we need to have all commands translated, if it is actually possible.

    "Yes my lord" (do this about ten different times, changing what actual words are used like "What do you wish?" and that kind of stuff)
    "We cannot march further sir"
    "CHARGE!!!"
    "HALT!!!"
    "Light your arrows!"
    "Extinguish your arrows!"
    "ATTACK!!!"

    I think that should just about do it for now.

    And yes, it would be great if you just use one set for all Scandinavians, and if you could do another set for Russians that would be brilliant.
    "
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  12. #102
    Member Member massamuusi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Ok, I will see to what I can get done. Right now it's a waiting day for a few days, for you. I'm expecting this thing to take about 1-2 weeks. At least I hope it won't take much longer.

    "CHARGE!!!"
    "HALT!!!"
    "Light your arrows!"
    "Extinguish your arrows!"
    "ATTACK!!!"

    hmm, I believe there were more, dunno. Hakkapeliitta will have their very own charge order. Not sure of the other units. I will contact my history teacher tomorrow and ask for sources. I will also ask our music teacher for where I could get voices done free of charge, especially important for the swedish voice act, and the possible danish&norwegian.
    Danes and norwegians were same country back then, danish and swedish is somewhat different, and so is norwegian, I will have to find out how the danish norwegian troops spoke as well. A norwegian should be able to understand danish commands relatively well, but I don't know if that's authentic.
    Well, working on it. Done todays work, continues tomorrow.
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  13. #103
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Yes, well I can't remember any other command replies now. I'll put up a resource thread for all the voice actors soon, which will contain the entire list.
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  14. #104
    Member Member wilpuri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Quote Originally Posted by massamuusi
    There will be credits for the voice actors, I believe? I just wrote a mail to 'polytechnic choir'
    Teekkarit hakkapeliittoina. Mielenkiintoista

  15. #105
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    ???

    Are you volunteering, or what?
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  16. #106
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Angry Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Are you guys going to have an end point for the campaign, because oe of my only major problems with medieval was that the campaign ended too soon sometimes, it would just be nice even if you do not add units for those time periods or anything.
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  17. #107
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Quote Originally Posted by Speiz_Bankurt
    Cegorach, I know, you're right. Poles and Hungarians have always been close. Seriously speaking though polish hussaria probably developed simultaniously and independantly of the Hungarian. It's just that the Hungarians got some early exposure to the rest of the world through the Austrians and Germans who absolutely loved using Hungarian Hussars. Many generals wouldn't even start a campaign without having some in their armies. It would be a pitty to leave them out of this mod!
    One thing I don't understand though is the name hussar itself. I mean Hussar and Hussaria sound so similar yet are so different.




    You are right that Hungarian and Polish Hussars have the same origin. Probably to the mid-XVIth century these were very similar.
    Only later on things are more complicated. From around 1575 Polish Husaria became the cavalry which was so famous later, acquired the 'wings' for example.
    From this time Polish Husaria was quite heavy whereas Hungarian Hussars was becoming light cavalry which it was in the XVIIIth century and later.
    I can also add that in 1775 Polish Hussars were reformed as lancer cavalry the ancestor or so famous Polish Lancers.

    I believe that the Hungarian unit should be in this mod Citadel TW.

    You should help these guys Speiz_Bankurt with this.

    If you want to help with other mod as well ( Pike & Musket TW) please drop in to MTW/Engineer's Guild. I need some help with names in Hungarian. I don't know this language at all and we are using names in National languages whenever possible. We have names in Tatar, Romanian, Swedish, Finnish, Italian, German, even in Georgian, but not in Hungarian, unfortunatelly.
    Only basic info is what we need, but if you want to add more that is even better.

    Regards Cegorach/Hetman

  18. #108
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Polish and Hungarian hussars are to be included...

    However, the Polish Hussars are going to be heavier than Hungarian Hussars and the Polish can eventually get winged Hussars, which are better than both.
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  19. #109
    Member Member massamuusi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Uesugi, the end date for a campaign is easily edited from the files... the file that has all the provinces and factions etc... damn, what was that folder again, I'm busy I'll edit it here later.
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  20. #110
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    That's for MTW. The folder is campmap/startpos. However, this is an RTW mod, and the system is different.
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  21. #111
    Member Member massamuusi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    For the campaign it is easy to edit. Don't know for campaign. I don't think it's much writing to have two three different versions, one has 1570, one has 1700 and one has 2500? Just for example.

    C:\Pelit\Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign\descr_strat.txt


    ; Custom campaign script generated by Romans Campaign Map Editor

    campaign imperial_campaign
    playable
    romans_julii
    romans_brutii
    romans_scipii
    egypt
    seleucid
    carthage
    parthia
    gauls
    germans
    greek_cities
    romans_senate
    macedon
    pontus
    armenia
    dacia
    scythia
    spain
    thrace
    numidia
    britons
    end
    unlockable

    end
    nonplayable

    slave
    end


    start_date -270 summer
    end_date 1400 summer
    Last edited by massamuusi; 11-16-2004 at 22:59.
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  22. #112
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Angry Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    K I trust you guys, this mod sounds great. OH! One more question, are you guys going to include Jannisary heavys with crazy hooked polearms for Turkey? If you are wonderign about their accuracy at some point I don't remember when but I saw mention of that sort of infantry being used by them. If you need anyone to research anything especially Turkey just ask!
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
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    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
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  23. #113
    Member Member massamuusi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Afaik anyone is free to give input. I don't think they came up with it from nothing when they made MTW.
    Besides, it was on the unit list on the first page, armoured janissary infantry.
    I don't know much at all about turkish history...
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  24. #114
    Ignore the username Member zelda12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Well I went to bed last night with an encyclopedia of warfare I found at the library. One of the main things I found was the changing of tactics to suit the changing of weapons brought on by the obset of gun powder.

    One of the things I noticed was the heavy reliance upon mercenaries by all nation apart from the ottoman Empire who had one of the only tru standing armies. Is there a way we can make mercenaries cheaper and more prevelant for the factions.

    I also found out a little about the changing tactics of Cavalry. I just want to say its boring and spiritless. With the onset of Muskets and Pike formations cavalry tactics changed dramaticaly. From the wild charge they instead drew pistols and shot at each other like the Arbequesiers, one row fired then another took its place fired went to the back and reloaded, another row took its place fired... The first cavalry to break lost and the other group pursued them, it was called the Caricole.

    Cavalry only did this and persuit untill Gustavus Adolphus reintorduced Cavalry shock tactics in the early 17th century which he learnt during his campaigns in Poland and Russia. I'm thinking its gonna be a right bitch to implement in the game.

  25. #115
    Member Member massamuusi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    a random demographic stat I came up with
    1720 finlands population is 300000 and swedens 1.5 million. Since then the agricultural reforms make the population double within some 40-50 years time, and continue very rapid increase.

    and a gossip- Gustavus III wasn't the father of his child. Instead, the father was most likely his royal head of the stables... It was said that Gustavus III enjoyed the company of women but didn't show any *ahem* interest to them. "hey buddy, could you cover me for a while here, I seriously couldn't care less"

    v&v- who's the father? -2 influence due to gossip and disrespect.
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  26. #116
    Ignore the username Member zelda12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    He should also start with the insanely brave valour. Ergo +2 morale +5 health -1 command.

    The tendency to lead insane charges makes him an example to his men and his miraculous survival and numerous wounds make him a lot harder to kill. (Much to his opponents woes.) However this means that he can lose control of command in the melee.

    Oh yes another thing. For a speacilist Mercenary units available only as mercs or to the Swiss. Swiss Pikemen and Swiss Guards. The Pikemen are obvious, the guards are specialist units who are used as royal guards like the Pope's. They carry halberds and are ferocious fighters etc. So the Swiss units are basicaly just better variations of the basic Western European plot. Apart from Cavalry.


    Oh yeah, one thing. Silver are the Swedes gonna be a playable faction? and are the finnish Cavalry gonna be added to the units list?
    Last edited by zelda12; 11-17-2004 at 20:02. Reason: The voices told me to do it.

  27. #117
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Cool idea massa. I should put that in somewhere. The finns are not actually in there, but I guess I could make the leader of Finland a rebel family member.

    zelda12- That's a good idea, v&v included along with massa's. The Swedes are not gonna be a faction, unfortunately the game limits it to 20 factions, which means there are gonna be many factions not included, including the Swedes. Many want other factions to be included instead, such as the Bohemians, and if I put Swedes in instead it would be a bit unfair. I hope you understand. Finnish cavalry will be in as mercs (but horses not too good)

    Uesugi- We can have heavy Jans, no problemo.
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  28. #118
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Angry Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    HUZZAH! Sounds great, can't wait to siege Constantinople in full 3D, who needs to wait until 1453, down with the Europeans!
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

  29. #119
    Member Member Speiz_Bankurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Yes, the polish hussars and winged hussars were heavier than the hungarians, however they were used completely differently, polish were good at one thing the hungarians at another, but it doesn't matter, I don't think you can incorporate such things in a game yet.

  30. #120
    Savior of Peasant Phill Member Silver Rusher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

    Ah yes... The Siege of Constantinople.

    I am waiting heavily for that as well.

    Hey Uesugi, would you be interested in helping with the Historical Battles then? You wouldn't have to do any modding (if you would though that would be great) but just designing the layout, as well as what actual battles there are and their descriptions.
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