Roman: Julii

[Rhand]

This the second time in only 5 turns the Senate asks me to kill my own Faction Leader through Suicide. If I don't, I'll get outlawed. The first time it was not a difficult choice because my FL was already 60 years and I had a Faction Heir of only 33 years old with brilliant stats. But now they want him to commit suicide too and I simply can't choose as I don't wanna lose him, but I don't wanna get into a war with both Scipii and Brutii either :(

Is it reasonable to expect that the Scipii and the Brutii have been issued the same "request" if they (just like me) have only 1 Star in the Standings with the Senate?

[gardibolt]

No. I can't recall ever seeing the other Roman factions get outlawed if you're playing one of them. Just prepare for the civil war by boosting your borders with the other two, and disregard the suicide request.

[IceWolf]

I've never had the senate ask me to declare war on the other Roman factions. It's time to or walk. You're getting plunged into civil war whether you're ready or not.

Icewolf

[TheRTWTiger]

Hey guys,


When I was Julii, I simply got a 10-star general and a full-stack and invaded Rome directily without attacking any other Roman faction. It went surprisingly well.


TheRTWTiger.

[NZG]

Hey guys, My first post


Well i got the game a few days ago and i play the tutorial and i started a short campaign on easy/easy. I took out the gaul very easily and finished the game in. Now the plan is do a long campaign and try to conquer the whole map.

I read most of this thread and the only thing that wasn't really talked about was when to go for Africa ane when is the civil war that everyone talks about?

[Ludens]

Hello NZG, welcome to the .Org .

The civil war will start when the Senate requests your faction leader to commit suicide, and you refuse. You can accept this request BTW, but this only buys you time, as the Senate will likely request the suicide of his successor before long. This occurs late in the game, after your family has become very powerful and popular with the plebs. The Senate will start with giving you impossible missions (say capturing a town on the other end of the map), so you do receive some advance warning before your standing with Senate plummets. See the Senate tab for your standing with the Senate and People of Rome.

BTW, such general questions are better asked in the R:TW SP forum. Also check out frogbeastegg's R:TW Guide.

As for your other question: it depends on several things, like how secure your borders are and whether other targets may be more profitable. In your case: the Senate will likely instruct you to go north into Gaul, while the Scipii go to Africa. You can beat them to it, but for your first campaign it's best just to go north, as the Senate suggest. That said, it may be worthwhile to expand along the Iberian coast instead and so go towards Africa. Coastal provinces, especially those in the Mediterranean, bring in far more wealth than the underdeveloped Gallic and Germanic ones.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If you want some early financial boost then load up couple of generals and infantry. Then sail them near Carthage. Usually, the only unit in garrison is a fm. If you have a spy there then this is going to be even easier. Just capture Carthage, exterminate the population and leave the city. This money will help to build up your other cities. If you are fast enough then you can even capture Syracuse(and let them suffer the same fate as Carthage) before Scipii does it.

Although, the downside is that it makes Carthaginians quite weak and Scipii can easily overrun them.

[Ladamyre]

This is my opening for Julii, played very hard, very hard, with huge unit size and no battle time limit. I know this is a long post but bear with me, I'm going to take it all the way to the Marius reforms. That's not the object of the post as you'll see, but I'll try to edit out as much fluff as I can that isn't pertinent to the story of how a southern and eastern strategy for the Julii can be a lot of fun.

Summer 270BC: Quintus boards the two biremes along with the velites and 2 hastati in Vibius' army as well as the 2 hastati in Lucius' garrison, then leaves for the straights of Sicily. Click on the 2 biremes for the journey to get full movement out of the navy. Flavius and his army take up position just north of the river crossing in Venetia and the spy joins them. The diplomat goes to the same crossing. (He'll get an offer for trade rights from the Gauls on the turnover, you can get a thousand or more out of them if you offer your map.) Vibius then takes Segesta. Too hard? Actually it's easy if you lure the warband there into chasing Vibius up the hill. By the time they get there they will be exhausted and Vibius' troop will be waiting for them, fresh. One charge will make them rout and Vibius mops them up. He may lose one or two on that charge, then heads for the town. One charge into the peasants and as soon as they're pushed out of the center, they rout and the battle's over. The most losses I ever had on this battle was 19, but Vivius will get back 10 or so on the turnover. I had 18 lost on the game I'm playing now to write this.

I won't detail buildings and troop musters, follow your own style here. I have my descr_strat file modified to have a Sacred Circle of Epona waiting for me at Patavium, a Pantheon of Poseidon at Messana for when I take it much later, and a Pantheon of Artemis at Syracuse which Quintus is soon to get. So I do different things than a non-modified game should do, like recruit peasants (except the first one, hastati at Arretium for replacements) to send to Patavium to get it up to 24,000 population as quick as possible so I can build an imperial palace there and get the Marius reforms early. I got them in the winter of 259 BC in this game. If anybody can do it sooner without a console command cheat, I don't see how. I don't believe the modified descr_strat file could have helped in this goal, so it's a kinda-sorta cheat.

But this strategy will work well in any case, if you're a good general. Also, save before the turn finish; if you don't get a senate mission to take either Mediolanium or Patavium, AND get a husband for Lucius' daughter Fadia, reload the save and try again. If no good, reload the save and build something more, put another building or recruitment in the cue. Save that and reload it. Every time you save something different and reload it, the random seed changes and you'll get different stuff on the turnover. This random seed works for sea battles too, a battle you lose might be won if played later in the turn, or doing the save and reload thing. You may sink a fleet that would have gotten away otherwise. I used to spend a lot of time doing this to get a shrine to Epona in Patavium, then wait for the Gauls to build it up to a Sacred Circle. If you don't know why, perhaps you should research this forum more. BTW, in the game I'm playing the senate gave me the mission to take Patavium but no husband for Fadia, I let it go because I will be "greatly rewarded" (5000gp).

Winter 270BC: Send the spy in Flavius' army to Patavium and attack it's north west corner, the spy should have the gates open for you. Lugotrix will be there to join in the battle, but you should meet him head on where he enters the field, put the triarii in the middle of the front line. His army will rout and taking the city will then be easy. Vivbius then goes towards Transalpine Gaul where he will encounter a Gaulish army consisting of one barbarian cavalry and two warband. A good general will win this battle by getting the barbarian cavalry to chase him until they are exhausted, then turn on them causing them to rout. The two warband will both be exhausted too and if you take your time you'll be able to rout them as well. Quintus' army continues it's journey to Sicily, he should be one square north of the port at Messana. Flavius builds roads in Venetia and his spy heads for Mediolanium. On the turnover in the game I'm playing, the senate gave me the mission to take Caralis and Fadia got a husband, he took off with Lucius for Patavium.

Summer 269BC: Quintus' army debarks and attacks Syracuse on it's north-west corner. (It's a difficult battle on the turnover. More on that later, but the battlefield is critical.) Send the fleet on to the south east corner of Syracuse. The spy then goes to Mediolanium and Flavius' army attacks it. Fadia's husband goes along for support while Lucius takes over in Patavium. This time the spy will probably fail to open the gates, and that's actually a good thing if the senate told you to take Mediolanium instead of Patavium, you'll see why later. Flavius builds a ram there while Vibius builds a fort in Cisalpine Gaul two squares east of the river crossing into Transalpine Gaul, the diplomat joins him there. (The diplomat will keep the fort "alive" and this location is exactly the distance onagers can travel from Mediolanium after highways have been built. You will need this fort later, which is why we're building it here.)

On the turnover from turn three to four, a Greek army that was in the field in Sicily will attack Quintus' army and the Syracuse defenders will join in. (This is a difficult battle so be sure to save. You may need to reload it and that's why you don't want a senate mission being given on this turnover which is why you don't want to be finishing a senate mission this turn.) The defenders should be eliminated completely, and this is how to do it. The place we chose to lay siege has given us a battlefield with a big rock in the middle and a collection of trees we can hide in when we deploy. Put Quintus to the right of the rock and hide the rest of the army in those trees. When the battle starts, wait a minute then charge Quintus at the archers just on the other side of the rock. As they rout, try to finish as many of them as you can, staying away from the hoplites. As soon as you can though, attack the peltasts and rout them as well. You should be able to finish off all of the archers and peltasts before the general from Syracuse get's too close to the action. After you get ALL of the missile troops off the field, go get the general's unit to chase you towards where your army is hiding. Timing is important here. Have your army form up in a line at the last minute and charge Quintus right through the middle of it with the Greek general in tow. The hastati on the edges run out behind him and then flank him from behind as he buries into the center two. With velites throwing their javelins and hastati all around, you stand a good chance of killing the general without too many losses. I can't detail how to get the rest of the hoplites but if you know your stuff, you should be able to rout them too, just try to kill as many if not ALL of the ones coming Syracuse. If you do you will occupy Syracuse ON the turnover; enslave the population. (On the games I play I remove all the generals I have inside cities except Patavium where I've sent Lucius so all the slave population goes there.) If you don't get them all, don't worry. It won't make too much difference as long as you win the battle. Build land clearance first.

Winter 269BC: Flavius takes Mediolanium and build roads. Fadia's husband, the spy and the army goes towards Vibius at the fort to get ready to take Massilia. On my games I enslave the population and Patavium "grows". If you didn't take Syracuse on the turnover, do it now, then take whatever hastati Quintus has left and embark them with him on the fleet and move it to the south east corner of Lillybaeum, where first you debark Quintus and lay seige to the town. THEN debark the hastati to join him and then he can make a ram in one turn. Syracuse builds a bireme and cues up however many peasants it takes to make the people happy. You can send the diplomat that's with Vibius towards Massilia and he'll likely be stopped by Vindex's Gaulish army. On this turnover, if the second mission was to take Mediolanium, the senate will probably tell you to take either Massilia or Caralis. Either one is fine as we have planned for either contingency.

Summer 268BC: Quintus takes Lillybaeum, then boards the fleet, which has been joined with the new bireme you made at Syracuse, leaving the hastati behind. (I enslave the population and Patavium goes to 8800 pop. This makes it unhappy but I build a diplomat and cue up 960 peasants to drop the population, making it happy and getting more growth anyways! 4.5% of 8800 unhappy people make 396 and I'd lose that in the revolt, but 5.5% of 7800 is 429 and that's more anyways. As you get larger cities this difference can be very big. I'll make 3 diplomats here this way, then just recruit peasants and let them build up to disband when the timing is right.) Quintus then takes off towards Caralis in the ships. You may see a Carthaginian fleet with an army on it near Carthage, attack it with the two ships that took Quintus' army to Lillybaeum. That will likely get your admiral a star and he won't be able to merge with Quintus' ship, but you can get close enough for Quintus to transfer to the better admiral. On the next turn you can merge the other into the forward fleet with Quintus. Syracuse makes another bireme. You may find Vindex's army close to the fort Vibius built, which will put your diplomat on the other side but don't roam too far off with him. Vibius will have all of Flavius' old army by now, who is BTW back to managing Mediolanium after Quintus' victories in Sicily. Save the game because on this turnover the Greek diplomat on Sicily will offer a ceasefire and you can set these terms (believe it or not). Ask for 5000 gold and the town of Thermon and he will agree! You may want to reload if you get only peasants there as a garrison.

Winter 268BC: There should have been a Carthaginian fleet (a different one without an army) at Caralis last turn and it will probably be near Carthage now. Attack it and then deliver Quintus to Caralis and take it the same way Vibius took Segesta. I move Flavius out of Mediolanium to Patavium first and enslave the population of Caralis to Patavium. He will keep the citizens happier than Lucius and after Quintus takes Caralis, I'll move Licius to Mediolanum. Quintus tears down the shrine to Milqart and builds one to Ceres, then goes to the south east corner of the island where he recruits some mercenary hoplites and peltasts, builds a watchtower and returns to Caralis where he disbands the peltasts. Vibius takes the army towards Vindex who's out of range now, leaving the spy at the fort for now. Fadia's husband goes to Segesta. In the game I'm playing, the diplomat returning towards the fort finds Vindex has Massilia under seige, also the senate rewards me for taking Caralis with a bireme in the port of Arretium, which I send south to Sardinia. Syracuse makes another bireme and on the turnover the senate gives me a mission to blockade Carthage. I send the bireme currently at Syracuse west towards Carthage.

Summer 267BC: Quintis' son Amulius comes of age on Caralis and takes over while Quintus boards the fleet headed for Sicily. Amulius leaves the hoplites to guard the town and goes to the southern-most small sliver of land on the east coast to make a watchtower and then heads to the north east corner to make one there in the winter. In the game I'm playing the Carthaginian fleet (the one with an army) is back near Carthage, looks like it was headed for Sardinia. I send the bireme the senate gave me along side it, then the fleet with Quintus to one square away from it and link up the ships from Syracuse, then attack the Carthaginian fleet, it retreats towards Thapsus. Vibius recruits some barbarian mercenaries and attacks Vindex's army, winning that battle, then lays seige to Massilia. Fadia's husband builds a watchtower on the coast as far west in Liguria as he can and heads back to Segesta. Syracuse recruits another bireme and starts building an archery range.

Winter 267BC: Vibius takes Massilia enslaving the population to Patavium as before (it's now at 12,700 in my game) and builds roads. The weakest two bireme in the fleets at Carthage takes Quintus to Sicily and he goes to Syracuse which has two biremes now. They go out to join the two weak ones and give them replacements then return the weakened remnants for retraining along with a new bireme recruitment. The remaining fleet with the good admiral at Carthage then blockades the port for the senate. Amulius builds the watchtower at the north east corner of Sardinia and heads to the north west to build another in the summer. On the turnover in the game I'm playing, the senate asks me to take Salona.

Summer 266BC: A Gaulish army of 3 warband has laid siege to Massilia and Vibius destroys it. Amulius builds another watchtower in the north west corner of Sardinia and heads to the south west corner to build the last one next winter. The Carthaginian fleet that has an army is back near Carthage and I send the 5 bireme near Sicily to surround it and one of the small bireme blockading Carthage to attack it, getting a new admiral with a star. The Carthaginian fleet flees towards Rome after the battle, but I send the 2 star admirals fleet from the blockade after, sinking it. This fleet had the army of Hasdrubal on it and I could not let it land his large army (including elephants!) on Sicily or Sardinia as they are on minimum garrisons like the rest of my cities in Italy. I currently have Quintus and 160 velites in Syracuse and the 3 Hastati in Lillybaeum. Then there's Vibius' army in Massilia, archers, hastati, a handful of triarii left and the barbarian mercenaries, not much to speak of. Vibius builds another watchtower at the elbow of the pass into Cisalpine Gaul to keep an eye on Lugdunum. One last army in Thermon, 4 velites there and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Brutii don't drag me back into a war with the Greeks until I can build it up. (If the Brutii do get too close to a Greek army they are at war with, don't be next to that Greek army on the turnover. You may want to evacuate Thermon as long as that Greek army can't occupy it.) Everywhere else is just generals (nothing at all in Arretium and Ariminum) and I have been concentrating on getting Patavium up to 24,000 by recruiting peasants in Italy. Mediolanium can no longer recruit now and Segesta hasn't for a while.

Winter 266BC: Amulius builds the last tower on Sardinia and Vibius builds one at the southernmost tip of Transalpine Gaul. Amulius manged to recruit some Mercenary peltasts and takes them back to Caralis where he disbands them and the hoplites; population there is up to 1000 now. Vibius was also able to recruit some barbarian cavalry for his garrison. The other Carthaginian fleet shows up and I attack it with the one-star admirals fleet after consolidating my fleets into two, he gets away but it's not a biggie, no army on this fleet. Syracuse gets a small unit for retraining and builds another bireme. Patavium is up to 13,344 population now but there's 960 in the cue not counted and 740 peasants as a garrison. I'm keeping most of the new arrivals in reserve until the pro-consuls palace is built because growth is 5% as is and would drop if I disbanded any now.

Summer 265BC to Summer 262BC: Not much happening here. All my cities are going for population boosters while Arretium and Ariminum keep sending 480 peasants to Patavium on every turn. Syracuse is making archers now and I send the two full strength hastati there to get ready for the army Quintus is gathering for Salona. The fleets are gathering in Syracuse as well and when I get an opportunity to attack pirates or Carthaginian fleets and win, I do, then retrain. I also go outside towns with my generals to see if mercenaries are available and buy them when they are, Massilia keeps them for the garrison and Caralis disbands them. I fight off a battle or two with Gauls besieging Massilia. The three diplomats I recruited in Patavium earlier have gone out and gotten trade rights in exchange for maps while my spy kept an eye on Narbo Martius. Quintus heads out to Salona with three turns left to fulfill the senates request, he has 4 archers and 2 hastati. After the first 4 archers, Syracuse makes two ballista for use in Africa later. (I kept the velites to garrison Syracuse after Quintus leaves.) I stop recruiting peasants for Patavium in the summer of 262BC as it will hit 24,000 next turn.

Winter 262BC: Patavium has reached 24,000 population now and I start the imperial palace there. Quintus takes Salona and leaves the hastati there to go to Thermon over land with the archers, the fleet went to Ariminum. On the turnover the senate tells me to blockade Carthage again.

I think I'll end it here. I hope you can see what I'm driving at with this strategy. You will of course find many variations but the main thrust is to keep the Brutii and Scipii from expanding. I've played this many times and I can always find a way to limit the Brutii to Apollonia by joining in sieges when they do attack the Macedonians, usually Thessalonica is first, then Corinth or Sparta. The main trouble is beating them to Kydonia (Crete). Sicily will soon be producing enough armies to take Thapsus and Carthage before the Scipii can get there. They never conquer a city, I'm always able to beat them to any city they even think of trying in Africa. In either case, keep an eye on what the rival families are doing and try to trump their moves. If you can get a force, however small, to join in a siege with these "allies" and are the one to instigate the attack on the town, they'll join in and you can let the Brutii or Scipii do the lion's share or even ALL of the work and the city will still be yours, even if they occupy the center square.

I make this harder for me by trying to use mercenaries that I will disband later so I can concentrate on getting the Marius reforms early and save money by not making many troops that will be obsolete when the reforms do occur. And I will stay in Massilia as a training ground for young generals who will wind up in many battles with Gauls, Germans and/or Britons as the tide turns in western Europe and Spain. I won't head out from there until my assassins have wiped out the Brutii and Scipii or until civil war has broken out and I have become the master of Rome and put those senators to their final rest. I will need those armies in Africa and the Balkans and will be using my economic resources to make those armies, and of course, build a large network of fleets to dominate the Mediterranean and move my armies quickly and with impunity.

Happy gaming! Maybe sometime I'll do a how-to on building a Medeival 2 TW English Empire with every kind of guild possible! I'll have to finish this game first though.

[Ladamyre]

[deleted - mistaken duplication of previous]

[Vincent Butler]

Don't know how many people try to use a checkerboard formation, it really, REALLY seems to work, really flexible. This works really for any non-phalanx faction, but especially Rome. I go
----Skirmisher--Skirmisher
--------Hastati--------Hastati
Principe--------Principe-------Principe
------------General---------------
Sometimes I have archers behind the spaces between the Principes. After Marian Reforms, I use Legionary Cohort instead of Hastati and Principes, and Auxilia behind the Principes, with one archer behind them. Depending on battle circumstances, I may move the Auxilia to the front or flanks to deal with Cav. I rarely get much Triarii before the reforms, and Praetorian Cohort do not have as good stamina as Legionary Cohort. I will usually also have one unit of Roman Cav on one rear flank, one Legionary Cav on the other rear flank, to swing around and nail the enemy as needed.

[ReluctantSamurai]

The standard Roman formation definitely works. It certainly worked in real life for them, except when faced with Cataphracts.

Skirmishers are a complete waste of unit slots and money, IMHO. When I play a Roman faction the first thing I do is disband all Velite, and I never create another skirmisher unit for the rest of the game...even for fighting ellies (for that I recruit merc Heavy Peltasts, or Spanish mercs, both of which are far superior to Roman skirmishers and when paired with Velite Glads, rip ellies to shreds).

Never have used vanilla Roman Archers much, either, except for city defense. Range is too short. Cretan mercs are much better until you get Archer Auxilia. If you start with your Archer Auxilia in front, you can begin peppering enemy infantry much sooner than any skirmisher, and due to the Auxilia's compact formation, they are much easier to control, and can continue to shoot over your infantry after they retreat behind them. Nothing more annoying than forgetting to turn off fire-at-will for a skirmisher unit and then wondering why several of your cohort units just lost 10-15 men and their unit card is blinking red-red-red

Never used Triarii much, either. Their formation is too shallow (three lines, IIRC) to withstand a heavy cavalry charge. Even Macedonian Light Lancers can punch a hole through them

Unless you forgo the usual Gaul conquest in favor of invading Carthage or Greece, the Julii have access to some of the poorest lands that a Roman faction can acquire (except Mediolanium, and Patavium), and that's rather boring to me

[Vincent Butler]

I am usually in Marian reforms before I get a lot of Triarii. Ditto Roman Archers. I know I will get better archers, so I typically use them as garrison troops. My main reason for using skirmishers is to be realistic; I agree, they are not that useful. As anybody, Greece is a vital target for me. The money it generates is incredible. Salona usually remains rebel for a little bit longer, so that is a tempting target, provided Gaul does not go for it. It takes a long time to grow, though. With Julii, good idea to avoid taking Gaul itself until you get at least some coastline in Spain. That way, you can generate some more money, get some mines, and pick up some Balearic Slingers. They decimate barbarian units.