Roman: Julii

[Craterus]

I like the game how it is, and I'm really bored of most of the criticisms..

Any improvements however, i.e. hard-worked mods are welcome and I admire those that put so mch time into huge projects such as those.

The more men you put on the battlefield, the longer the battles will be. You want to put 200,000 men in a battle? It will take a huge amount of time to win that battle and units would have plenty of time to recover from routing. It would add another strategic level to the game I admit, but I don't think there's an machine capable of supporting RTW graphics on that scale.

[pezhetairoi]

I completely agree...realised that too, which was why I gave CA credit for finding a good balance as it is between the two considerations earlier mentioned. On the topic of Julii, though... I've been toying around with the idea of leaving Gaul untouched and heading north for Germania/east to Greece instead. Any comments? In my current Scythian game for some strange reason Corinth was Julii, and possible Sparta too (though it's still fogged-of-warred)... So d'you think that's a good alternative strategy? I mean, Mediolanium-Patavium-Caralis is getting boring for an expansion direction, and Caralis-Narbomartius-Osca has been tried, too...

[Franconicus]

Pezhetairoi,

there are several good reasons to attack Gaul:
1. You have to attack Gallico Cisalpini in the early game anyway!
2. You make much more money that you would in Germania
3. Senate wil probably send you anyway.

But I agree that it is getting kind of boring.

Why not conquering the Mediteranian. You could rus the Gaulish border, invade Spain, take the islands from Carthage and maybe land in Northafrica. This would be a complete different game and I guess much fun!

[pezhetairoi]

Hmm, sounds worth a try. :-) I shall try a quick campaign with it and see if I can reach Carthage. Stand by for some interesting news. :-)

[Craterus]

I think those Scipii will beat you there.. (carthage)

[pezhetairoi]

oh....true. Oh yeah... the quick campaign states I have to defeat Gaul. No fun there, and I don't plan to try a Julii long campaign again until I've played 5 other factions... oh well. experimentation'll have to wait till my next redskirt campaign.

[katank]

Scipii wouldn't beat you to Carthage. They are quite slow. You should have minor force headed to Gaul, conquering only as fast as the Senate dictates (small force). Another should be on a boat to Carthage. Don't attack Caralis, head straight for Carthage. Then sack Thapsus and Lilybaeum in that order.

If you are feeling extra adventurous, send a third expeditionary force down to Greece and try to beat the Brutii to Sparta and Corinth if not Thermon. It's quite possible as the Scipii to take Thermon before the Brutii without hindering regular expansion patterns.

[pezhetairoi]

Hahaa, i used to do that on small scale. Block out the expansion paths of the other Roman factions. Fun. Once I lock them into their provinces, I bribe away all their armies (the Scipii unluckily had four 20-unit armies sitting around Thapsus that were bribed away by me in one turn flat... the idiots had only one family member (who was publicly loyal) for 4 armies, so I got 4 armies for free...)

[katank]

Bribing is fun back in 1.0 or 1.1. What is especially good is if you race your diplomat to Rome at the beginning of the game. On turn 2, the senate army splits into 2 with a captain led stack consisting of roughly half the senate's troops.

As the Julii or the Scipii, you can bribe that force away and get some nice 3 xp troops that early in the game, often with cash from the Senate mission for taking your first objective. This can be used to take on the Senate and sack Rome quickly or be sent as expeditionary forces to take remote objectives.

[pezhetairoi]

devious... I never saw that happen in my game though. Maybe the captain headed south instead so I didn't see him.

[katank]

True. It was very repeatable and I did it in my second Julii and Scipii games. For around 4k, you net about 6 hardcore melee units. That on the in game is crazy.

The captain is usually right on the Rubicon, slightly north of the Senate. This condition lasts only for a turn (turn 2) so watch for it and you may profit provided it's not patch 1.2.

[pezhetairoi]

That's IT. I'm patch 1.2.

[Marcus Maxentius]

If you are feeling extra adventurous, send a third expeditionary force down to Greece and try to beat the Brutii to Sparta and Corinth if not Thermon. It's quite possible as the Scipii to take Thermon before the Brutii without hindering regular expansion patterns.

Haha, I might be able to take thermon instead of the inept Brutii. I just got a mission to take Appolonia since the retarded Brutii left the door unlocked and got it bribed away from them. Their expansion has been halted for the last 40 years because of the siege bug. Right now it's 230BCish and the AI seems to be making up for lost time because it took corinth and athens simultaneously and now is laying siege to sparta and thermon(for the millionth time).

[Catullus]

Haha, I might be able to take thermon instead of the inept Brutii. I just got a mission to take Appolonia since the retarded Brutii left the door unlocked and got it bribed away from them. Their expansion has been halted for the last 40 years because of the siege bug. Right now it's 230BCish and the AI seems to be making up for lost time because it took corinth and athens simultaneously and now is laying siege to sparta and thermon(for the millionth time).

Whats the "siege bug"?

[pezhetairoi]

It's the bug that causes cities being besieged by the AI when you save the game to become un-besieged when you reload it. I.e. if it's sieging your city when you save it, when you reload it the siege will be lifted by the army will be in your city's red zone. Dumb bug, until you patch it.

[Craterus]

I thought they turned around an went home for the siege bug, I've seen it now, doesn't annoy me too much, I play for long periods though so it rarely affects things too much.

[Catullus]

Thanks for the siege bug note.

Currently playing "long" Julii having done the decadent Seleucids and hairy Brits. Trying to do the South East route with least possible Gaulish activity, partly to be different and partly because Greece etc is where the MONEY is...

Now got Illyria, Dalmatia and Pannonia, but not planning on provoking Brutii in Apollonia, and Macedon currently too strong to take on at that distance.

Current plan is therefore amphibious 2 city assault on the Greeks (who have so far been very well behaved allies, bless 'em). Thermon and Corinth together or maybe Thermon and Laconia. Anyone tried this? Are they tough to hold afterwards?

As a general point, does flagrant treachery of this sort make a big difference to negotiations elsewhere?

[Craterus]

Yes, I heard that betraying allies gives you a bad reputation for ceasefires and alliances later in the game. You should cancel the alliance just before you land. Then you won't get a bad rep.

[pezhetairoi]

Yeah. Even selling map information seems to net you even less money after that. Not Corinth and Laconia at once, no. Laconia, if unconquered, still has its Spartan Hoplite garrison, and if you're hastati-based, then it is definitely not a good idea to split your forces. Take Corinth for a base, then move on Laconia. The Greeks are not an aggressive faction so there is no fear of attack from them. Leave them be until you clean up Macedonia. Thessalonica is just as, perhaps far more, well-developed than Sparta. And it's easier to take.

[katank]

Depends, I find it possible to siege Sparta and then have the Spartan lured out in a field battle.

Jog them around the map with velites. This tires and attrits them. Then gang up on them with 3-5 hastatis from all sides and cav from rear results in insta rout of those famed warriors.

Also, use the pila to pila em to death.

[Craterus]

Yeah and missile fire, that seems the best way to take Spartans.

[katank]

The Spartans are really weak against missiles due to 3 armour.

Surprising what 2 units of starting Macedonian archers can do to a spartan unit before it even makes contact.

[Craterus]

I always shoot Spartans, rather than make contact with them.

[pezhetairoi]

The only time I come up against Spartans is when they are standing in the city square, and my archers don't do as much damage to them as I desire because they take their own friendly fire, so I just charge and end it all, constantly reminding myself that I should not have done that >.

[roman god's]

I to like to throw what ever i got. The spartans have the hopilets and can crush your calvary and if their good your main army. So i like to pick them off before i crush them.

[katank]

Friendly fire??? Just don't stack your archers on each other.

Note that there are 4 sides to a town square. Lining up archers on each of the sides and firing allows for a nice crossfire.

Even 2 sides allow you to reduce the shield effect and drop the spartans really fast.

With a single unit of 1 missile upgrade cretan archer, I shot a unit of Spartans along with a general's BG unit to oblivion with some ammo to spare.

[pezhetairoi]

haha, those were the days when i didn't know better. I think I only really got the hang of Rome in Scythia, and I'm still perfecting it in Greece. I think I'm refining my siege battles, so that will probably never happen again :-) With just two Cretan archer units and 2 militia hoplites two weeks back I got a heroic victory against 3 units of militia-hoplite rebels holed up in Cyrene, zero casualties, and you can guess why :-)

[katank]

Figures. Also, in siege battles, the enemy units will often march back and forth in phalanx mode. This means that your Cretans get free shots at their slow moving flanks. Unarmored units like milita hops get absolutely cut up in 2-3 volleys.

[pezhetairoi]

Totally agreed. I was storming Sidon and their sole unit of Libyans was marching to contest the breach, but with 2 units of Cretans and 2 of Rhodians they quickly lost formation and became totally scattered as the AI rapidly kept switching their direction to try and avoid my volleys. After 3 combined volleys I just withdrew my ranged troops and used cavalry to scatter them. Not a single man lost.

[katank]

The AI will often park units in front of the breach to guard it. Rotating Roman pila infantry into position right before but not into the breach allows for nice target practice that will decimate the waiting enemy units.

Archers and slingers are naturally still nice to gun down everything else.