Roman: Julii

[pezhetairoi]

Not true about parking units... the AI in my game has wisened up and decided to -flank- the breach instead of stopping right in front of it. While my troops are entering the breach to contest it they charge me partially in flank, resulting in higher casualties than I should have. It can be troublesome as hoplite factions, and your pila will have no way to get to them unless you move away from the breach.

[The Stranger]

so true

[katank]

The point is you are not in the breach but near it. They are also near it. Shadow their unit diametrically so your pila can reach them. I've had great success mauling enemy defenders this way.

Another method is to have a unit of cav fly through the breach before their flanking unit has time to engage. Then charge your infantry through the breahc with the cav flanking the enemy infantry.

[crazybastard]

Does anybody knows when the Marius reform will take place? I think the pre-reform Roman infantries suck against well-experienced warbands and swordsmen. Please don't tell me it's gonna be in 101 BC or else I'm dead meat.

[katank]

If in 1.2, you need to have an Imperial Palace in Italy and it occurs at a random date after 220BC.

In 1.0 or 1.1, imperial palace anywhere is fine.

[gardibolt]

I was playing as Julii and I got a Transgression message from the Brutii; they didn't approve of my current behavior. I've bribed a couple of their smaller armies away, and also invaded the Greek Cities, which they were working on. I also hit them up for 3500 denarii to attack the Greeks, which I was going to do anyway. Was it the bribery or the invasion or sucking them dry that ticked them off? Are there any actual consequences to Transgression messages? Or can I continue merrily bribing and invading so long as I don't murder their family members?

[pezhetairoi]

As far as I see it, they're pissed that you're in their territory to attack their destined empire. Never mind the fact that they paid you to fight for them, they're pissed that you're successful. Stupid Brutii.

I say it can't be the bribing of the armies, because once as the Julii in Africa I bribed four Scipii full-stacks massing to march on Egypt, and they didn't do a thing against me. So.

[gardibolt]

Does anything happen as a result of these messages? Will I get outlawed early or something, or is it a warning without any teeth at all? Do I get a warning from the Senate that they'll fine me or something?

[pezhetairoi]

Well, you could save your game, try ignoring the messages and see what happens, then load the old game and start again :-) I honestly have no idea, though, because a turn later I'd finished what I came for and left Scipii territory with 4 new fullstacks......

[gardibolt]

I have started bribing my other brethren with entertaining effects. I spotted a large stack of Scipii heading towards Carthage; they had tried assaulting once before and been beaten back. I couldn't beat that army to Carthage with my own stack over in Cirta, but I did have a diplomat in the area and a couple thousand denarii handy. A quick bribe, and I sacked Carthage myself, with the Scipii's troops, exterminating the Carthaginians since I knew I'd never be able to hold it without a governor. What a hoot! And what a pile of money!

[pezhetairoi]

See, a new convert to the Joys of Bribing. Damn, I could write a book about it :-) Gives a whole new meaning to monetary policy and fiscal expansion, doesn't it? ;-)

[Franconicus]

You mean 'Dollar Imperialism!

[GreatEmperor]

As far as I see it, they're pissed that you're in their territory to attack their destined empire. Never mind the fact that they paid you to fight for them, they're pissed that you're successful. Stupid Brutii.

I say it can't be the bribing of the armies, because once as the Julii in Africa I bribed four Scipii full-stacks massing to march on Egypt, and they didn't do a thing against me. So.

I don't think that's true, because I conquered whole East-Europe except for Athene and Thessalonica and they didn't complain.

[GreatEmperor]

That's why I find it easier to conquer East-Europe first and afterward the Gauls, so the Brutii haven't got many cities and after you conquered whole East-Europe it should be easy to defeat the Gauls, Britians and the Germans.

[pezhetairoi]

same thing done as the Brutii, but in reverse. I completely surrounded the other Roman houses with my territory and bribed liberally, raising 4 new fullstacks from Julii and Scipii troops and family members. :-D When the time came for the civil war I ended it in 4 turns flat: 1st turn besiege all cities except Rome, 2nd storm all cities, 3rd turn besiege Rome, 4th turn fight a sally-cum-defending-a-river-crossing battle. Beautiful :-D And all without offending the other Roman houses once, despite bribing away half their population.

[GreatEmperor]

But how can you besiege all Roman cities without offending them?

[Mahrabals apprentice]

He brough tea and biscuits

[gardibolt]

Why are the Brutii so much more wealthy than me? I've (as the Julii) seized the Greek Cities for myself and wiped out Macedon, essentially cutting them off from further development to the east, and hold Carthage, and as well have wiped out the Gauls. I hold three Wonders, including the Colossus. I've built roads, ports, trading facilities. I have trade agreements with half the map that I'm not at war with. I have 25 or 26 territories, and they have 7. But their income is 4-5 times mine. What am I doing wrong here?

I also seem to have screwed something up diplomatically; no one, absolutely no one, will buy map information, or ally, or agree to be bribed, or agree to a cease fire. I did abuse the Brutii a bit by charging them money to attack the Greek Cities (and got a transgression warning), which I was going to do anyway, but is that enough to tick off the entire globe? Any way to get back into others' good graces? I didn't violate any ceasefires or alliances, so I'm not sure why everyone's so alienated. Maybe the two are interrelated.....

[pezhetairoi]

As to why you're earning so much less money than the Brutii, one possible reason is that you have considerably a larger army:settlement ratio than the Brutii have, so you earn less NET profit than the Brutii because the Brutii pay less in upkeep. But hey, you're actually making tons more money than the Brutii. Just disband one fullstack and see the miracle.

As to how I besieged all the Roman cities without offending them, well, I didn't. That is to say, they were offended as HELL, but knowing they were going to die the next turn and knowing there was bloody-hell nothing they could do about it, it didn't really matter. I mean, it's a Roman Civil War! How do you fight a civil war without offending your fellow countrymen I ask you?

[GreatEmperor]

I don't know, that's why I asked you, because you said:
And all without offending the other Roman houses once, despite bribing away half their population.

[Garvanko]

Haha.

[katank]

Frankly, don't worry too much about those fools. You should focus on economic expansion which then drives the military. Be sparing with raising armies and keep them busy at all times.

1 or 2 peasants is enough to keep any city happy. I rarely used more than 5 field armies and this is with expansion in all directions, sacking cities every turn.

The Senate is useful for the initial cash infusions that is by default 5k that can jumpstart your economy.

From then on, the units etc. are a nice perk but not too much with exception of first cohorts and merc war eles. Kill them when they get annoying.

I have many times restricted the other Roman houses to their 2 starting cities while draining them by bribing away stacks. Makes the game too easy though as the civil war is not an exciting event at the end game.

Better to gift them some cities to keep them competitive till the end. WIthout 5-8 cities, they cannot keep up a decent expansion rate.

[Mahrabals apprentice]

It sounds like your cash problems are definately becasue of your far larger military. I usually build arnies constantly and then find i have a lot of silver chevronned hastati when the reforms come along, which isn't really a bad thing, but i menas i have difficulty affording the hordes of legionary cohorts i want.
However in my current brutti game i am being more conservative, I found that 1 stack was enough to take southern greece, then i built a second the help take everything south of the danube, and i built a 3rd to take crete, rhodes and then off to the east to seize turkey.
I have stopped my expansion and growing my, somewhat small, empire in to a cluster of ubercities, so when i get the marius reforms I cvan go into go cohort crazy mode

I find that if you are sensible in the early stages you can be a little extravagant a little later

[Slon]

Julii: Medium/Medium Patched 1.2

The Julii campaign is rather simple since you will be fighting against poorly equipped barbarians with your solid legionaries. They really stand no chance. The problem is that the settlements which you capture are worthless, undeveloped (can't retrain good troops) and have terrible population growths (can't train troops at all). In the north, your main concern is patavium, the province to the west of it and that small city bordering your capital. First thing you do is take that small city (obviously). Once you have it, upgrade infrastructure and set taxes to low so the pop can grow. Get trade agreements with Gaul to avoid fighting with them early on. You need to build up your cities first. Don't bother upgrading training facilities to train Principes or the heavier horsemen just yet. Equites and Hastati are more than enough for now. Also, be sure to keep save your archers for later. Be careful to not let them take ANY casualties since you won't be able to train/retrain archers for a while. Once you have enough forces to hold the bridges in the north, ship your troops to caralis. Once that is taken, launch a sneak attack against Carthage using some troops and a ship. Train any reinforcements at caralis/other provinces and keep shipping them down to carthage. Another strategy early on would be to take any part of Sicily that is left (Scipii take it rather quickly). In my game, they already controlled all of the island (all 3 settlements) by the time I was ready to attack those juicy money makers. If you manage to take Carthage, enslave the populace, build your own shrine, and build up some troops for the attack on Thapsus. Once you have Thapsus, you have successfully stopped Scippi from getting too greedy and taking those settlements. So, they are basically screwed since all they have is Sicily and Capua.

In the north, if conflicts have begun to mount, start pumping out troops. If you aren't ready to attack Patavium, just put your soldiers on the two bridges. Gaul won't be able to defeat you on a bridge battle if you have at least 3 units of Hastati per bridge. Patavium is really important to take as soon as possible because it is a REAL money maker. The population practically explodes the second you take it, even though it isn't quite as good as Carthage. Don't worry about the southwest: Carthage has no strength over there, Numidia serves as a cushion against Egypt (Tripolitania), and Numidia won't be able to launch an attack on you since their settlements are horrible compaired to Carthage and Thapsus. But, if you are really worried, you can make a sizeable army and take Numidia (capital) from them. Then, just blockade some of their ports and eventually they will accept ceasefires/trade rights. Unfortunately, you will need all the money from carthage to finance your northern wars and will therefore be unable to take all of thr sourthwest.

Up north, your priorities are the two settlements north of your original position. Once you have them, you can just plug the bridge west of them to keep Britannia/Gaul out with a fairly small force. Then, all you have to watch out for is an attack from the north (easy since you have large settlements to train troops here) and the east is safe since Britti are probably busy taking over illiria. Now that you are secure south and North, it's time to focus your attention on the east. Once you have a good income, make a force of Hastati, some horses and archers. Get your best general (or two) and load them on ships headed for Thermon/Sparta. Take whichever settlements are left, but pay special attention to Sparta, Athens and Rhodes (VERY important wonder) especially. Your goal here is to take as many settlements east of Brutti/Scippi expansion as possible so as to stop their progress. I managed to take Sparta, Athens, Rhodes and Halicarnasus. This put a dead stop on Brutti eastern expansion, although they were still struggling with the Macedonians and eventually turned north towards the useless Scythian provinces. At once point, they screwed up and allowed a just city northwest of Athens to be retaken by the Macedonians. So, I quickly took that as well.

Once the other romans are stopped dead in their tracks the game gets really simple since your ownly remaining (dangerous) adversary is Egypt. The next few turns spend all your cash on infrastructure and schools and organise your family members to be governors of the important cities. Upgrade whichever largest city you have to Huge City and contruct the largest barraks that you can to get the Marian Reforms. Then, transition from old troops to Early Legionary Cohorts, Roman Cavalry and Archer Auxilia. For city defence, use 4 units of Auxilia and the rest peasants as you need them (public order).

Once you are ready, begin a number of simultaneous campaigns. Build an army from carthage and get it to capture everything southwest of Carthage. Don't bother using Legionary cohorts: it is almost impossible to retrain anything above Early Legionaries. Numidians are just too weak to oppose you. Save Tripolitania for later. Set taxes to low in the tiny provinces (occupy them) and keep the force near carthage to make sure that area doesn't get invaded. As a general rule, if a city is a minor city or greater, exterminate. If smaller, occupy. ALWAYS destroy their shrine the first chance you get to build your own (Ceres if population growth is low, Baccus if it is alright).


In the north, start expanding west into Gaul (finish them off) and then go into the Iberian peninsula. They should be easy pickings. Take the Carthaginian settlement there as soon as possible and upgrade it to Minor City ASAP. This is required for retraining your troops (this is why you shouldn't go higher than Early Leg/arch/romcav). These guys almost always use LOTs and LOTs of wardogs, so archers are a must. Continue until the Iberian Peninsula is yours. Also, the Britons will probably be kicking your troops around near Logdunum. It is VERY important to take that city and hold it. Make a strong stand immediately by stationing a tough army there with a good general (Britons bribe settlements very often, bribed that city 3 times). Protect those bridges and just survive their attacks. Masillia plays a huge role here, since you will need this settlement to retrain your troops. The settlement west of Massilia should be upgraded to minor city ASAP as well.

As for the east, just finish off the weak Seleucids (if there are any left) and take all the easy pickings (Halicarnasus and the northern settlement there). As always, look for opportunities. If an important faction (which you can't attack yet, such as the romans, pontus or egypt), quickly take the settlement. They won't care if you take is as long as you didn't take it from them! Usually, these will be once-in-a-lifetime opportunities so keep an army ready and pay attention to each area every turn. As usual, you don't need to go higher than Hippodrome (for races), archery range and legion barracks. Also, don't forget about the settlements east of arretium. If Macedon or rebels take any once of them, be ready to pounce to keep the romans from getting there first.

Now, make sure you have good relations with pontus. Send them money occasionally and make sure they are holding their own against the egyptians, which will probably be near halicarnasus by now. If they get slaughtered, you are next on Egypt's list! At the same time, keep a trade agreement with Egypt. Don't think you can just finish off pontus and then be trading buddies with Egypt. They will backstab you as soon as pontus is out of the way. Slowly start building an assault army on Rhodes to attack Egypt (as well as a strong navy). If cyprus gets toppled by rebels, take it (this happened in my game)!

Now, as for Brittania, stack two armies and attack the settlements north of Logdunum. Send the other army straight for Britannia's island and take over that entire area plus Ireland. Use the other army to conquer everything west of logdunum and then proceed east towards Germania (who are probably too weak to defend themselves).

In the east, once you are ready, make sure you have two armies. Once should be in rhodes and the other in Halicarnasus. Send the Hali army to take out the pontic areas. Send the other on a trip to Alexandria. Once you are ready (small garrison in each newly acquired pontic settlement), attack Egypt from Halicarnasus AND Alexandria at the same time. Move the eastern army east and the southern army south to take the big 3 settlements (Alex, memph, and the settlement south of that). Once this is done, Egypt will be hurting. Just hold them off and wear them down from here.

Anti-roman strategies later when I get to that part.

Tips: Always destroy enemy shrines and build your own.
Standard garrison: 4 auxilia rest peasants/town watch
Army: 6-8 ELC, 2-4 roman cavalry, 4+ archer auxilia. If you want, you can also get 4 heavy onagers.
Always wait until last turn to complete senate missions.
Build schools to get some experiences governors
If a huge settlement is just getting bigger and bigger, keep taxes Very high to stop the pop growth and instead launch races/games to keep loyalty above 75%.
Build baths/piping ASAP to avoid plague.
Watch your ports and upgrade Ports, roads and markets first, making sure you have an arena in the area.
Only upgrade farmland to get to a huge city. You don't need any more.
Keep your roads cleared of rebels. If you don't pay attention, a single tiny army of rebels can block off a major road and stop all trade.
Keep at least 4 spies in each settlement to keep unrest down.
Hire a few units of mercs to use a cushion for your real troops. Mercs can't be retrained anyway so have them tie up the enemy while your archers take pot shots at them. Sure, they will probably rout, but then your legionaries will mow down the remnants with their pila. Just make sure you tell your archers to stop firing once the enemy get near your legionaries (to avoid friendly fire). I once defeated a huge Numidian army with Mercenaries alone. Granted, one of my merc units was war elephants

[Slon]

Does anybody knows when the Marius reform will take place? I think the pre-reform Roman infantries suck against well-experienced warbands and swordsmen. Please don't tell me it's gonna be in 101 BC or else I'm dead meat.

They take place as soon as you build a huge with the best infantry barracks. This is why Carthage is important: because it grows the fastest.

[Deus ret.]

hmmm are you really sure about that? no random trigger after 220BC plus an Imperial palace somewhere in Italy?
would be good to know for sure...

[Slon]

hmmm are you really sure about that? no random trigger after 220BC plus an Imperial palace somewhere in Italy?
would be good to know for sure...

It happened the second my final barracks was constructed in Carthage.

[gardibolt]

OK, I just received the message that the People of Rome are ready to accept me as emperor. How many turns do I have before the Senate starts demanding suicide from my faction leader? Do I need to head my armies back immediately, or do I have some time to consolidate things out in the boonies? Do I have at least 4 turns to build stone walls around my capital?

[Skott]

In my experiences with it once the Senate demands your faction leader to commit suicide for the good of the republic thats the que that the civil war is about to begin. If you refuse the senate declares you outlaw and the civil war starts at that point. If you accept they keep asking each new faction heir to commit suicide. Obviously you dont want to do that so at that point do not accept and start fighting for the throne.

There is a minimum date requirement but not sure when that is. For me it happens alot around 140BC but its not a firm date. It varies each time depending on the date and every Roman faction's standing with the senate and the people. Mainly your faction's standing. Thats why its wise to have your starting cities ready anytime after 170BC.

Once you play the Romans in a couple campaigns you'll get a feel for when things are ripe for the civil war. Keep an eye on your standing and how many factions you have destroyed.

[gardibolt]

Geez, it's only 236 BC. Am I safe for a while, or has my high standing with the People doomed me before I'm ready? I've destroyed the Macedonians and the Gauls, and am on the verge of wiping out the Spanish, Greeks, Numidians, Carthaginians and Thracians (they each have 1-2 provinces), and I have about 30 provinces myself. Was the 30 provinces a trigger?